HRC...if you want to deserve our nomination, you have to stop BASHING Obama and progressives!

You have to stop acting like activists are on one side and workers and older women are on the other.

You have to stop letting your surrogates say the country isn't ready for a black president.

You have to clean up your act and run a positive, progressive, inclusive campaign for the nomination.

You can't win in the fall if you get nominated through ugliness and division.

For the good of the party, for your OWN good, do the right things

1)Stop bashing Obama;

2)Only bash McCain;

3)Stop causing divisions that didn't exist before you got in.

Please start running as a decent human being. Please start running as a Democrat.

That isn't too much to ask.

At least it isn't if you actually care about this party.

Your current tactics are unacceptable and you know it. Please join the light side again.

She wouldn't know how to clean up her act. Doesn't matter anyway; she's not going to be the nominee.

she's already done it all.

Even her Psyche-Op operation is not working!

Her spoiler role is just about over but boy has she helped her party, and I don't mean Obama's.

you can quit your whining now, because it ain't going to happen.
you might as well be asking Republicans to play fair.

if you want to win, you have to deal with them on their terms.

Obama has already won.

We would just like Clinton to go out with some class.

look what happened to the Gore and Kerry campaigns, they thought that victory would be a sure thing, and this overconfidence and cockiness did them in. the surest path to defeat is to take your lead for granted.

Bashing Obama and creating a false division between activists and working-class voters will never HELP us beat McCain.

The only bashing should be against the Republicans. Is that so hard to accept?

None of HRC's tactics are helping the party right now.

Dealing with Republicans "on their terms". It's working to cause our defeat.

HRC has a moral obligation to stop bashing the other Democrat and only campaign positively within the party. She can't split us now and unite us later. And if she campaigns as an ugly voice of conservative cultural division(which even you would have to admit was what she did in Pennsylvania, where her campaign was a liberalism-and hope-free zone)she will be obligated to govern as a conservative.
If you campaign ugly, you have to govern ugly.

Oh...and you spelled "dreaming" wrong. Not surprising, since the HRC campaign hates dreams.

if Obama and his supporters are too proud or too thin-skinned to take it then he doesn't deserve the nomination.

"Activists and working-class voters are on opposite sides of the culture wars" isn't valid criticism(and it isn't true. Workers and activists AGREE on most issues).

And the false claim that Obama's campaign is an attack on older women is DAMN SURE not valid criticism, since Obama never said or did a thing to attack older women. If he did, his mom would knock him upside the head, being an older woman herself.

Of course, my actual life keeps me pretty busy, but I think a lot of you are just making stuff up. Then you bounce it off each other and get all riled up. I'm sure you know that real world people would have no idea what you're shouting about.

I don't make things up, and you have no greater claim to being "real" or "mature" than anybody else.

:sarcasm:

It's the way it is.

...repeatedly said, when she lost states, that those votes didn't count for much. Bill has made numerous racial slurs against the African-Americans who vote for OBama(apparently the ones who vote for Hillary are different). The list goes on and on.

Let's put it this way: if Hillary thinks we are delusional and our votes don't count, she can count on us NEVER bothering her with our votes again.

Happy?

Go Obama Go

There has never been anything so inherently superior about your cultural conservative candidate that would justify what she'd doing to our party right now.

You know her tactics are tearing us apart and serving no good purpose. Why not admit it?

Do you want to win?

The HRC tactics can't get us a win in November. Not if they split us now. You can't campaign ugly and govern progressive. At least not when your still campaigning within OUR nomination process. Ugly tactics always lead to conservative results.

if she wants to deserve the nomination, doesn't she have to get more votes than her opponent?

What she doesn't get is that she will doom us to defeat if she wins the nomination on an ugliness-and spite-based campaign.

She should ONLY be campaigning on the issues of the day. Not on stuff Rush Limbaugh would talk about.

she knows she cannot win. She has ulterior motives.

This thing has been over since Iowa.

Worry about your own candidate and his albatross. Hillary is doing just fine. It's a political campaign and not a coronation. Obama is running on charm and fumes, nothing much. To think that a guy with a wafer thin resume has gotten this far speaks volumes as the gullibility of people.

and Hillary's been losing from day one. That's not going to change.

Obama's campaign was never an attack on older voters, or on women, and you know it. It was always a lie to say that, and it was always a lie to say that activists and working-class voters are enemies.

HRC stands for nothing but hate. She doesn't have any positive objectives in this campaign. I'm saying she'd have the nomination wrapped up if she HAD run a positive, inclusive, progressive unity campaign. But she always refused to do that.

Why is your candidate so insistent on running ugly? Why can't she admit that she should ONLY be bashing McCain?

I (along with many, many others) won't survive another four years of a repub in the wh, I really won't.

I'm far from thrilled with Clinton, but I just keep thinking about years and years of this horrible war. Those soldiers and the Iraqi citizens don't have the luxury of debating Clinton v.s. Obama. The loss of jobs, tax cuts continuing for the wealthy, and, now McCain's TERRIBLE idea for a health care "plan". It's a farce that only benefits the insurance companies.
Sorry, off rant now.

AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

by her Campaign Ops going on. And, it's voter suppression of African Americans...along with some white folks who just happened to get thrown into the mix with the Robo Calling and Bogus Voting Registration packets targeted to scare those already registered to vote..

And nobody would accept her nomination as valid if those two delegations eventually DID put her over the top.

And, as has been repeatedly established, Obama didn't stop the Florida OR Michigan revotes.

It would have been enough to seat the two delegations with an even split.

She doesn't think activism is a valid method of political involvement. She has no respect for idealism or the need to have a dream of a better world. Her approach to politics, while vaguely non-conservative, is opposed to transformation and hope. No one will ever quote what was said in HRC's Inaugural Address, except for the crowd on K Street.

We can't exclude the dreamers and win.

:eyes:

There is VERY little difference between these two candidates ideologically speaking (and little on substantive policy either).

And I wonder, just which 'progressive' Republicans Obama will be considering for his administration... Exactly how many times has he said this?

Just a reality check for progressives on Obama so you aren't as disappointed with what happens in Jan. if he wins.

Nobody who cared about poverty or worker's rights or peace was ever included in the first Clinton regime. Ask Marian Wright Edelman if you don't believe me. She still bears the scars. So does Johnetta Cole. So does Lani Guinier. Every time, they abandoned us. And if they did it once, they would have to do it again.

You would agree that we should never repeat the Nineties experience, I hope.

An Obama Administration would have to be to the left of Clinton, because politicians who reach out to idealists are always more progressive than those who disdain them. Look to what a Scoop Jackson adminstration would've been like to see the proof of this.

to question where/what direction Obama will/would lead from.

As to Bill Clinton... there was also a certain amount of sour grapes among the traditional liberal (note I didn't say progressive) establishment in Washington vis a vis the Clintons. You only have to revisit the health care debacle to get a clearer picture of this.

This explains why a number of high profile liberals have swung in Obama's direction relatively quickly (think Kennedy and Kerry et al).

I even remember how many liberals AND progressives were willing to throw Gore under the bus in 2000 to vote for Nader because there was NO difference between Gore and *. :grr:

I still think most Obama people are expecting too much in this area. Too often the messy reality of governing gets in the way of even high ideals. Hey, but that's the reality for Clinton too.

it was also the treatment he inflicted on mobilized grass roots Eighties activists, those of us who had worked in the Rainbow. The Clintons made a point of marginalizing and ignoring us, and we'd done nothing whatsoever to deserve being demonized and left out in the cold. Nothing that happened in the Seventies and Eighties was our fault.

There will never be an excuse for a Democratic nominee to be THAT far to the right again. The DLC takeover made Clinton's 1992 victory meaningless, and cost us Congress in 1994. Then, the DLC refused to do anything to help regain Democratic control of either the House or the Senate for the rest of the decade.

The poor were vilified, the war budget went up, unions were left undefended. NAFTA, which almost nobody, left OR right, actually supported, was imposed by El Perro Grande solely to appease his corporate bosses.

We have a moral obligation never to repeat what that decade was like.

agenda has now been mainstreamed into the Democratic party... in much the same way as the Labour Party in Britain. :(

Very very few Democrats truly stand outside that nexus these days. Even Edwards had his ties... Ditto for Obama and Hillary. Perhaps the only outsider in that sense was Kucinich.

However, a bit more optimistic in the sense that I think Hillary and Obama would do about the same middle-of the road job ideologically speaking...

Progressives have made a comeback in the Democratic party, but we are still the last ones asked to dance... even by Obama.

I don't think policy positions really matter in this election. Within the next four years we will be faced with shit that makes solutions currently on the table into laughable non-starters. The government will have to radicalize or simply become irrelevant. I would much rather see Obama at the helm of that than Clinton. He just seems less authoritarian, and less likely to stir people up against each other, which are the two default reactions of the government of a nation in crisis.

in the midst of an economy worse than 1930.

Then why did the Clinton campaign use Obama's liberalism as a talking point before Pennsylvania? Oh wait, that was so last month!

Therefore, Senator Obama has no idea that, despite whatever her campaign may be up to, Senator Clinton hardly ever mentions him anymore. Despite his remark to Hickory that he's told his staff the campaign needs to get away from going negative, Senator Obama laid into Senator Clinton, usually in conjunction with Senator McCain, several times during the afternoon. At one point he said, "Lately the other candidates aren't talking about their ideas--they're talking about me."
As far as Senator Clinton is concerned, nothing could be further from the truth. She presents more ideas on the stump than she has time for. This misrepresentation incensed a group of women friends in Hickory. They had seen Hillary Clinton several times in North Carolina and had come to hear Barack Obama before finally making up their minds. Scratch twelve votes for him.

"Don't hit on Hillary." Only the day before the Hickory event, Jean Weiss, a feisty eighty-two year-old, told Obama, when he called on her, thinking he would get a question, just that. Age admonishing youth, it was a powerful moment that the crowd much appreciated.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/a-recharged-obama-alights_b_99347.html

sins. It doesn't matter how low she sinks, if only she "wins." As the Bush* campaign openly and unabashedly publicly called it in 2000, "win at all costs." As went Bush in 2000, and 2004, there goes Hillary. She truly admired their "technique." Hey, so what if one must drag the Supreme Court into it to legally steal the election; after the Inauguration, just tell the sheep to "move on and get over it."

As we all know, the dumb voting base will come together to support the party nominee despite whatever tactics that nominee has engineered to eliminate the opposition -- even if that opposition was their candidate of choice.

We see these tactics every election season; yet many continue to "condone" it when they "hold their nose" and vote for the eventual winner, despite whatever low blows that candidate has thrown to get there. And in that regard, we sanction these tactics. No surprise the pattern keep getting repeated, and repeated, and repeated, and repeated ... every election.

Those who love the country best are those who work to deliver it from all injustice and stop its leaders from committing injustice to other countries(as our leaders commit injustice in the developing world by trying to force it to commit to "market values" and cuts in social benefits, which is what all who favor "free trade" on NAFTA terms are guilty of doing.)

And if you keep proclaiming "America is the best place in the world" you commit yourself to not even trying to work for change. Flag-pin patriotism is always right wing.

Obama doesn't hate America. Neither does Pastor Wright(he just calls our leaders to change their ways). Neither does the Obama movement, the only place where progressives have a home in the Democratic Party.

and why he stayed with Wright for 20 yrs. Obama and Obamarosa have demonstrated, they do not represent America. I'm sure the Kennedy's regret ever getting caught up in the hype and enthusiasm once generated by the Obama campaign and are now suffering from a huge case of buyers remorse.

Have a culture the equal of bland whitebread types like us. Obama has never called for separatism, and even Wright has done nothing but use very intense rhetorical methods to get white America's attention and shake it out of its complacency and smugness. We need that, sometimes.

And Michelle Obama has done nothing to deserve being compared to Omarosa. Michelle is a class act and hasn't been cruel to anybody. You need to do the decent thing and take that back.

And it isn't "representing America" to appeal to white fears of a black president. Nor is it consistent with membership in the Democratic Party. Saying "America isn't ready for a black president" is the same thing as saying "fuck civil rights and everything Dr. King stood for".

In the twisted logic of Hillaryworld you can!

Talk about separatists.

In Hillary world, the old "reverse racism" that Rush Limbaugh & your Republican uncles told you about is much worse, much more prevalent, and much more of a central issue & concern than over 200 years of white-on-black discrimination.

And this party is never going to have peace with itself until she is forced out.

I don't fucking care what it takes. Hillary has to go. She's proven herself unworthy. Funny thing is that she's the only one who I find completely unacceptable as a President. I originally chose Kucinich. He bowed out. Then I switched to Edwards, and he bowed out. Then I moved to Obama, and he started winning. I would have found Biden, Dodd, Richardson or Gravel worthy of my vote too - they all fought decent, honorable campaigns, and if Obama had been beaten by them, I'd have voted for them.

But not Hillary. Hillary has shown the values completely contradictory to the values of the party I chose to join. Instead of honor, integrity, compassion, and justice, she's shown disgrace, sleaze, cruelty and corruption. I will never vote for her, and quite frankly, I would very much rather split the Democratic party than accept her as the party's leader.

This is a battle for the soul of the Democratic Party.

Do we choose reform, hope and change?

Or do we choose corruption, cynicism and the status quo.

Hillary's only promise is to try to beat the Republicans by being just as venal, corrupt and disgusting as them. But that way ain't gonna work. No, that way only leads to ruin. The GOP would drag us to the sewer, then beat us with experience. If Hillary wins, we will see defeat in November, and for the foreseeable future. Even if we won in November, we'll see the same old shit. Hillary will manage the country's economy in the same way she managed her election campaign. Chances are good we'll attack Iran, and countless more innocent people, and thousands of American troops will die. All we'll see for "health care reform" will be a dog and pony show. And so many toes will be stepped on that she'll ensure the Republicans will retake and control Congress for the foreseeable future.

Our hope lies with Obama. Embrace him, or embrace bitter defeat.

She will listen to the voters of Indiana. It's up to them to tell her, that we are too smart to fall for the BS you are trowelling out, and we are better than that. Don't let us down Indiana.

There can be no progressive case for voting for her, as long as her campaign is based solely on bashing the candidate who leads her and demonizing activists.

Vote to move on, Indiana. Vote for the only candidate that wants us to heal. That candidate is Barack Obama.

The endorsement Andrews is pretty much the signal of the end for HC - a BIG abandonment of Clinton and endorsement of Obama, with strong words for other SDs to follow suit. Bring on McCain.

n/t

racial conservatism! After all, he's repeatedly criticized those who use Rev. Wright for political gain. How ironic - the wife of the first "black" president can't match up to McCain for racial tolerance!

whether they are progressive or conservatives. It's politics.

McCain is her rival, right?

Bush was her rival, right? When did she bash Bush on race, religion, patriotism & elitism as much as she has the DEM?

The issue isnt just politics as usual- the issue for me is the use of RW smears against the DEM, while no similar attacks are directed against the GOP.

Rival politicians bash each other, sure- but I havent heard Obama bring up any hurtful Clinton scandals or attack her on relgion, elitism, patriotism, etc- those are GOP style attacks.

Which you cant- you know "the fighter" will never go after McCain on those issues.

That is because she and her supporters dont really CARE about these issues- they are dishonest hypocrites when it comes to these smears- they can only bring themselves to attack the DEM on those things-never mccain or even Bush.

Someone's post of a news-paper endorsement on a campaign blog is hardly on par with how the Wright/Farakkan Willie Horton type associations were pushed by Hillary and the pro-McCain media.

If the Black press or some memo predicted at any point that Hillary might be up for race-baiting- her Willie Horton style tricks may have proved them right...

In any event- I agree with you & Moyers- I dont think she was trying to be racist in the instance that you bring up.

That particular "blog" is reached with a single click on the front page navigation menu. It is only unlike any traditional web page in that people can leave comments.

But not just anyone can post page content.

...seems to be questioning Clinton on race...


After her Willie Horton style msears- trying to connect Obama to Farrakkan, I cant blame a black news-paper for vauguely suspecting such things.

I'm assuming this was the most "negative" thing you could find- if thats the case- Hillary herself has Obama's bloggers & news-paper endorsements beat in the smears & negativity category by miles...

Nice try- next time try being a little more honest about who & what you are sourcing...

The same "Hold your nose and vote because you don't want a Republican in the White House either" tactic.

What's worse is that she'll govern in the same way if she gets elected.

She will also kick the "white working class" in the ass, drinking with her her Corporate Cocktail Friends instead of any more blue collar bars.