Clinton's Involvement With Robo-Gate will End Her Campaign. Her Campaign Violated Election Law.

Hillary should absolutely be disqualified from the party for being involved with such tactics. It's Plain and Simple: Her Campaign Violated Election Law. This is simply outrageous coming from a Democratic Candidate.

It's clear that her campaign is involved with the NC Robo-calls. Her Chief Campaign advisor, Maggie Williams, sat on the board of the organization making those calls and was involved in the plan to make them. These calls are:
- Illegal
- Targeting African Americans
- Voter Suppression

People in the GOP have been convicted of illegal manipulation of Congressional districts to suppress African American turnout and impact on elections. GOP members have gone to jail in NH for similar phone-line voter suppression tactics.

From TPM: (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/nonprofit_womens_voices_women.php )


The NC Attorney General has had the calls stop and has opened an investigation. The source of the calls has been identified and several Clinton campaign people, including Clinton's campaign manager, Maggie Williams, were involved with the robo calls. From Carpet Bagger:http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15388.html


It's clear this is going to blow up in Clinton's face and she should no longer be considered a viable candidate. If she were somehow able to steal the nomination, this would come back big-time during the General Election and most likely several of her staffers would be indicted in that time period.

It's over for Clinton.

judges.

have plausible deniability, but her campaign would be ended.

I called the Atty Gen's office today, got a help line,
and asked why hadn't he already charged WVWV for breaking the laws as he
cited.

She said that he is accumulating complaints from affected voters.

This is a well funded organization if they can mail out 10+ truckloads of
voter registration forms in one state.

And they don't care what the state laws are, they completely ignore them.

They made these robo calls when voting was already in progress in NC.

North Carolina’s Acting Senior Deputy Attorney General Gary R. Govert wrote a letter (pdf) today to WVWV’s lawyer, Holly Schadler of D.C.-based Licthman, Trister & Ross, advising him that WVWV appeared to have broken N.C. law(s) regulating telephone solicitation.

North Carolina is the first state to go to these lengths to directly challenge the WVWV? There were 11 other states, right? So why did the AGs of the other states not do this?

I don't believe anyone else knew who was making the calls.
Facing South investigated until they could find out who was making them.

The calls that made voters think they weren't registered, and should register by mail -

-they were made after the deadline to register by mail,
-they were made during the primary's early voting when voters could register in person,

:-)

As far as I can tell, so far there is no clear evidence that Clinton's campaign was involved with this, or that it was a deliberate attempt to mislead voters. I think it's a little premature to say it's the end of her campaign. I would pounce if such a definitive link were found (though I'd be saddened at the same time), but unless I am missing something, we don't have evidence of that yet. WVWV is a reputable organization, and we have no proof that this was deliberate. Also, Maggie Williams serving on the board does not prove that the Clinton campaign had anything to do with this. Am I missing something here?

Trust me, I would love nothing more than a Clinton scandal right now, but I am not one to make accusations without evidence.

There is only one person who benefits from suppression of African American voters.

If I rob a bank and give the money to a charity, does that make the charity guilty of something?

and see where it goes. Whoever is involved prosecute.

SHOULD have known the money was not legit they are STILL guilty.

It's the law you can look it up.....at least that's my story and I'm stick'n to it.

You have to stay real. If Hillary's campaign had WANTED groups supporting them to stay scrupulously above board, these groups WOULD DO AS THEY ARE TOLD - especially after the first 'mistake' was discovered.

I am with Berni McCoy - the fact that the NC AG is investigating tells you it's more than a mere accident. I mean seriously - who ever heard of an organization calling out to people without identifying itself? And what was WVWV's defence for this 'per TPM)? 'It's a recorded message'!? Have you ever heard anything so retarded?

So they're reputable - doesn't mean they can't be bought or used by a third party. The 'cat's paw' is an old, old trick. After all, nobody is going call up pretending to be 'Voter Suppression Inc.'.

We have same day registration during early voting.

This is ongoing through May 3rd.

If WVWV wanted to help people get registered, the call could have told them that.

Instead the call says that AFTER the person mails in the registration form,
then they will be able to vote.

THEN

emails and making calls to people with friends in the media for two days hoping to get the press to pick up here.And I agree with you. As much as I would love to say we have the 'smoking gun' we don't. We have leadership and board members and former members of WVWV with huge ties to the Clinton's. It looks very bad. But thats as far as we can go here until hopefully the NC AG finds more documentation to prove more here. Given Hillary's lust for anything goes politics its easy to assume she is just hidinmg behind a legal fire wall, probably is. But not definitely is.

shining the spotlight on this is the main thing. More of a chance for concrete proof to emerge. Fight the cloak of secrecy surrounding election tampering, our national "dirty little secret." Insiders in elections (officials and citizen groups) don't really need more proof than this to smell a rat though.

Even beyond the cast of characters, I am outraged that ANY group founded to 'help' voters would do this. It. Is. Outrageous. regardless of Clinton connection. But she should have to answer to it.

comparing one of our candidates to Adolf Hitler.

Since they've pulled this shit in 14 states so far, the group has clearly been hijacked by someone. Once is a mistake, twice is world-class incompetence, and three or more times is deliberate policy. It may well not be connected directly to Clinton, but exactly who else would be benefitting from suppressing the African-American vote in a Dem primary?

a much harder time beating McW than Mr. Obama. If the supers take the nomination from Mr O a lot of people both black and white will set out this election allow McW the close race he needs to steal the "election" like *. This would also kill the down ticket election.

Hell, I could see Hill and the GOP (their people) gett'n together on this.

Team Hillary must be suffering great attrition if the leadership is having to get its hands dirty like this and expose itself to prosecution.

Will Evans of the Center for Investigative Reporting , who collaborated in reporting this story, found some Obama backers among the Women's Voices leadership, but the group mostly has ties to Clinton and her campaign. Gardner worked on former President Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign. Board member John Podesta was President Clinton's chief-of-staff. Maggie Williams, Hillary Clinton's campaign manager, used to be on the Women's Voices leadership team and did consulting work for the group.

Chris Kromm, director of the Institute for Southern Studies, in Durham, N.C., says there's no hard evidence that the robocalls were meant to suppress the pro-Obama vote. "We can't show that there's any formal or direct connection," he says.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90114863&ft=1&f=2

remember the Duke Lacrosse players and Nifong? Accusation is not proof of guilt and it is not proof of enough evidence to convict. An accusation has to be made so an ivestigation can be launched. The real question is, who called the Attorney General and stirred this pot? An Obama supporter or campaign member? Obama does have a history of using legal manuevers to win elections...like when he had all of his oppositions petitions discounted.

or is this too, one of those things that doesn't "matter"?

Proof is required for prosecution. A charge has to be levied to even start a legal search for proof.
Accusations do not equal automatic guilt, no matter how bad you want it to be so in this case.

they have the frigging calls on tape. The only thing left for the Prosecutor is to determine penalty. Nothing new, they just messed with the wrong state this time.

but do you know if they gave their "intent" for the calls....at least their version of what their intent was? Or did they admit to voter suppression as their intent simply by virtue of the nature of the calls themselves?

got him disbarred, in fact.

dick.

the ends justify the means to them.

Well, I guess your skills with logic in this post represent all Obama supporters', so I'm not surprised.

She was aware of the Robo calls. I'm sorry you can't handle the truth.

So I doubt it

the problem with this crap is that the ones that pull it, or try to, know it has to be done very close to an election.
A. It's impossible to get the facts in order and put the puzzle together before the election.
B. After the election it is kind of slipped into the "crying over spilt milk" basket and either forgotten, or investigations of other things takes precedent.

These campaigns know it.

During the 2000 coup here in Florida there were some people that were purged from the voter rolls. They simply had a common name with some other convicted felon. When they cried foul, they were told to take it up with their local Sup. of Elections. Alot of good that would do at 6:30 pm on election night? See how they work it?

When I voted last time in a GE I paid attention to the little counter on the side of the machine. Slid my paper in, read "Thank you for voting"... "you vote was cast" (whatever the screen says)-looked down and the counter had not moved. Perhaps the machine only moves on votes in increments of 10 or 5 whatever, but there was noone there to ask. There were some poll workers scratching names and handing out ballots but I knew as much about the machine as they did.

That being said, I have no idea that there was skullduggery in the WVWV situation. Too early to tell.
I won't pass judgement this soon, but if it is Hillary's campaign and staff, it damn sure wouldn't surprise me.

Then all her supporters can cry about it.

Celebrating the imprisonment of a Democratic candidate...on what? A few news stories and a possible investigation by the AG?

And IF she's guilty of anything, I hope it is found out. IF AND WHEN she is ever punished, YEAH, I will celebrate.

Guilty is guilty regardless of who you are or what party you're with.

So sure, you "celebrate" when the guilty are punished but let us wait until there is an actual trial before announcing with glee someone is going to jail.

Led Kerry into believing that there were nowhere near enough ballots to defeat Bush's 138,000 ballot lead. Carville got Kerry to thinking that there were only 150,000 to 160,000 ballots outstanding.

We now know that there were about 400,000 ballots. But Carville did not want Kerry to contest the election and possibly end up in the WH. Why?? Because the CLinton faction wanted to reserve the 2008 ticket spot for Hillary.

And then on top of that, Hillary was on the phone saying to Edwards that he "should quit grandstanding and snivelling" about counting every vote.

This woman is not a friend to us voting activists.

Ask yourself why it is that neither Al Gore or John Kerry endorsed her.

hmmmm...

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

And the Obama campaign so clean and pure.

McCain has violated the FEC rules. He is still in it.

For that matter, how many elections rules have Bush and Co broken along the way?

caging lists. voting machines.

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that those are against the LAW. Where is GWB now? must be in jail right, those certainly would have knocked him out immediately, right?

a couple low level hired help take the fall. and the big infractions went ignored by most.

Again, I am not arguing should. Hillary should drop out now. If she cared a damn what I thought, she wouldnt even wait for tomorrow morning, she would do it this minute. But thats not likely to happen.

That's one difference between Bush's campaign and Hillary's. Otherwise, I agree, her campaign is pretty much like Bush's. Whisper campaign and Rovian tactics combined with voter suppression and racism.

As to whether she will end up paying the price for any wrongdoing of her campaign, I have my doubts. I wish it were so, but I am a skeptic when it comes to justice in this country.

A decent version of the Holt bill passed that they haven't worked on the other part of voting reform that Must Occur soon: penalties for stealing an election.

I have been trying since January 2005 to get a woman who committed a felony in her pursuit of stopping a voting rights group from offering instructions to the populace disbarred from her place of employment. And this woman's place of employment happens to be the Registrar of Voter's office in Marin County!!

But Bush not only had his minions steal the election - with Bush's perverted Justice Department, the FBI was re-arranged so that it simply would not take legitimate complaints from someone like me as I try to preserve the rights of people in an African Aerican community.

However, had some 69 year old black woman attempted to vote without her ID, boy, I bet I could press charges in triplicate!!

So did Bill Clinton!

He wouldn't lie, would he??

or a black man driving a nice car, need I go on? I'm not saying the hell with innocent until proven guilty, I'm saying it's disingenuous to act as though Hillary is a martyr here. The law says we're innocent until proven guilty but our society doesn't act that way and our government has certainly not been practicing the law in that manner. Hillary is not a victim.

They did not find Jackson guilty so he is NOT guilty

They did not find OJ guilty so sadly he is innocent.

So until Clinton's Campaign is found guilty they are innocent.

Just for a definitive answer.

FACING SOUTH EXCLUSIVE: D.C. nonprofit aimed at women voters behind deceptive N.C. robo-calls
By Chris Kromm
Facing South

http://southernstudies.org/facingsouth/2008/04/facing-south-exclusive-dc-nonprofit.asp

Who's behind the mysterious "robo-calls" that have spread misleading voter information and sown confusion and frustration among North Carolina residents over the last week?

(snip)

So who is Women's Voices Women Vote, and why are they making shadowy and legally-questionable calls that are causing North Carolina voters so many headaches?

The D.C.-based nonprofit, led by well-connected Washington operatives, claims in a press release they sent to Facing South that the North Carolina calls are part of a 24-state effort targeted at a list of 3 million voters, especially unmarried women. The robo-calls, which never mention Women's Voices, are followed by mailings that include information on how to register to vote. They plan to mail some 276,000 packets in North Carolina alone.

But since last November, in at least 11 states nationwide, Women's Voices -- sometimes working through its Voter Participation Center project -- has developed a checkered reputation, drawing rebukes from leading election officials and complaints from thousands of would-be voters as a result of their secretive tactics, deceptive mailings and calls, and penchant for skirting or violating the law. For example:

* In Arizona last November, election officials were "inundated with complaints" after Women's Voices sent a mailing erroneously claiming that recipients were "required" to mail back an enclosed voter registration form. Many who received the mailing were already registered; the mailing also gave the wrong registration date. Secretary of State Jan Brewer denounced the group's tactics as "misleading and deceptive." A similar mailing in Colorado that month " fire and caused confusion," according to a state press release.

* In Wisconsin, state officials singled out Women's Voices for misleading and possibly disenfranchising voters, stating in a press release : "One group in particular -- Women's Voices. Women Vote, of Washington, D.C. -- apparently ignored or disregarded state deadlines in seeking to register voters," sending in registrations past the January 30 deadline and causing "hundreds of Wisconsin voters who think they registered in advance" to actually not be.

* Michigan officials ended up "fielding tons of calls from confused voters" after Women's Voices did a February mailing to "380,000 unmarried women" -- including numerous deceased voters and even more that were already registered. Sarah Johnson of Women's Voices "seemed confused by the confusion," the Lansing State Journal reported.

* A 1.5 million-piece Women's Voices mailing in Florida falsely stated: "To comply with state voting requirements, please return the enclosed application." Pasco County's elections supervisor called it "disingenuous"; another said it created "a lot of unnecessary panic on behalf of the voters," reported local newspapers. Sarah Johnson of Women's Voice said, "I'm sorry to hear that."

* By March, Women's Voices was backing off the erroneous "registration is required" language, but there were still problems. For example, a mailing in Arkansas allowed that "registering to vote is voluntary," but a clerk in Washington County reported that "the majority sent back to the county come from registered voters, causing needless labor for office employees."

Problems with the group's tactics have also been documented in Louisiana, Kentucky and Ohio.

In each state, the Women's Voices campaigns have brought the same news and the same themes, again and again: Deceptive claims and misrepresentations of the law -- sometimes even breaking the law. Wildly inaccurate mailing lists, supposedly aimed at "unregistered single women," but in reality reaching many registered voters as well as families, deceased persons and pets. Tactics that confuse voters and potentially disenfranchise them.


............

Duh who else would have wanted to do this? Come on! The MSM can talk for hours on Rev. Wright, what about voting corruption!!!

Was it before or after Super Tuesday?

If I recall correctly she was brought in before she became campaign manager...as early as New Hampshire, maybe. Does anyone know?

http://hamptonroads.com/node/453328

Of course they didn't change their MO. Maybe Maggie williams was in charge of the corrections and when she left it caused a void-SNARK!

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/02/11/2008-02-11_meet_maggie_williams_hillary_clintons_ne.html

Meet Maggie Williams, Hillary Clinton's new campaign manager

by Thomas M. DeFrank
daily news washington bureau

Monday, February 11th 2008, 4:00 AM

I thought I remembered reading that a staff shakeup was planned before New Hampshire, but then after they won NH they brought in the new people but did not get rid of the old ones until after super tuesday. I am pretty sure Maggie Williams started with the campaign after New Hampshire but took over as campaign manager after Super Tuesday. If so that means she was on the Clinton campaign when this began.

She was Hillary's Ex-Chief Of Staff too.

Gatekeepers of Hillaryland
The Candidate's Coterie From Her White House Days Is Back Together, All for One and One for All

By Lois Romano
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 21, 2007; Page A01

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/20/AR2007062002567.html

All the way to the slime pond.

thats far back.

In this case I don't see how, but good luck to you.

or you just don't care?

but something tells me she will get out of this without a scratch. The Clinton's have a way of side stepping major controversies, because they always have a subordinate who is more than happy to take the fall for them.

There is a reason that it is a supposedly 'independent' organization indulging in voter suppression. The Clinton campaign observed how effective the 'Swiftboat Veterans for Truth' organization was at ending Kerry's campaign. That organization had Bush's fingerprints all over it, but nothing was ever proven.

lawyer for the organization defended Clinton during his impeachment crisis...I wonder who that is?

Regardless of the extensive ties to the Clinton Campaign there has been no print on this story today.

North Carolina, except on the net. Did you see this article?..
http://southernstudies.org/facingsouth/2008/04/facing-south-exclusive-dc-nonprofit.asp

The media has decided that it wants a race between Clinton & McCain, so they go mostly unscathed by the 24/7 talking heads.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90114863&ft=1&f=2

Will Evans of the Center for Investigative Reporting , who collaborated in reporting this story, found some Obama backers among the Women's Voices leadership, but the group mostly has ties to Clinton and her campaign. Gardner worked on former President Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign. Board member John Podesta was President Clinton's chief-of-staff. Maggie Williams, Hillary Clinton's campaign manager, used to be on the Women's Voices leadership team and did consulting work for the group.

Chris Kromm, director of the Institute for Southern Studies, in Durham, N.C., says there's no hard evidence that the robocalls were meant to suppress the pro-Obama vote. "We can't show that there's any formal or direct connection," he says.

NPR did a good job with the story. The title was "Group with Clinton Ties Behind Dubious Robocalls"

That's a pointed headline, if you ask me. They did NOT emphasize the alleged Obama backers, & that was not made to be the point of the story. It was a general overview.

I urge anyone reading this to go to the NPR link and read it yourselves. They did a very credible and timely job with it. I'm not an uncritical fan of NPR and am aware of their shortcomings--but IMO they did a very good effort on this. Playing the Lamont Williams message right up front was important.

Link to the "All Things Considered" segment on the subject:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90114863&ft=1&f=2

If the answer is nothing, don't expect this to get traction.

Disgusting.

Yeah, that's how democracy works: All hail Obama who is above criticism!

The OP merely quotes something saying, "Women’s Voices board member John Podesta, former Chief of Staff for President Bill Clinton, donated $2,300 to Hillary Clinton on April 19, 2007, according to OpenSecrets.org." But the relationship is much closer than that. Here's a 2003 article on Hillary's presidential ambitions:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2003/1017nj1.htm

Hillary Inc.
By Eliza Newlin Carney, National Journal
Friday, Oct. 17, 2003

Hillary Rodham Clinton insists that she's not running for president. But at an early-October Washington luncheon for Democratic women, it was easy to see why people refuse to believe her. . . .

Hillary Clinton, moreover, has close ties to a long list of former Clinton administration officials who are raising millions of dollars for new liberal organizations. These groups have set out to take over some of the research and get-out-the-vote functions that the Democratic Party may not have enough money to do effectively under the new campaign finance law. These include ex-Clinton Chief of Staff John Podesta, who is launching a think tank called the American Majority Institute, and Ickes, who is raising money for Malcolm's new America Coming Together PAC as well as for a Democratic media fund.

"She's not just raising money," said Simon Rosenberg, president of the New Democrat Network, a PAC for centrist Democrats, speaking of Clinton. "Her allies are constructing and leading the infrastructure that will be the next Democratic Party."

NOTHING will happen. If they can get away with Guantanemo and you know what (hint, rhymes with eighty seven), they'll get away with this.

Can't tell you how repulsive I find the Clintons, but frankly, this doesn't change my opinion of them one iota.

:mad:

other than the wishful thinking of our usual cast of Obama supporters. Is there nothing you guys could do that would be a more productive use of your time?

It is always Hillary. Simply amazing.

Check.

:crazy:

Oh yeah, not-a-drama-queen Hillary.

You have a group, Women's Voices, Women Vote, making illegal robocalls, targeting "black neighborhoods" providing misleading information that are designed to suppress voter turnout, despite the fact that the organization stated goal is to "Improving unmarried women's participation in the electorate and policy process."

Hillary backer (and her husband's former Chief of Staff) John Podesta is currently on the board, and Hillary's Chief Campaign Adviser (and her former Chief of Staff) was on the board last year.

Statistically, Obama tends to do VERY well among African Americans, so a poor turnout for that segment of the population will negatively affect his chances in a primary (and therefore improve Hillary's chances).

Everything POINTS to Hillary, but nothing that has come out so far that proves her connection.

Democrats need to shut this crazy shit down.

Obama backers among the Women's Voices leadership, but the group mostly has ties to Clinton and her campaign!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90114863&ft=1&f=2

"...to drive down turn-out. The calls seemed to be aimed at African-American communities, places where Illinois Sen. Barack Obama is expected to run well ahead of New York Sen. Hillary Clinton.

But the group behind the calls isn't partisan Republican or ideologically conservative. It's Women's Voices Women Vote, a 501(c)(3) charity that states its mission as registering single women to vote. The robocalls seem completely at odds with the group's usual, upbeat message. In one of the group's public service announcements, the actress Julia Louis Dreyfus strolls thru a replica of the Oval Office and fantasizes about women electing a woman president."

In addition to which:

"Group's Ties to the Democratic Candidates

Will Evans of the Center for Investigative Reporting , who collaborated in reporting this story, found some Obama backers among the Women's Voices leadership, but the group mostly has ties to Clinton and her campaign. Gardner worked on former President Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign. Board member John Podesta was President Clinton's chief-of-staff. Maggie Williams, Hillary Clinton's campaign manager, used to be on the Women's Voices leadership team and did consulting work for the group.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90114863

You may as well contend that HRC should be doing hard federal time for the Chinese fraud dude found on the train in his underwear while trying to escape justice :eyes: No wait, sorry, you probably already have :thumbsup:

Rogue operation, except everyone knows it wasn't

is now, somehow/somewhere in your random mind; to be equated to E. Howard Hunt's plumbers? Then I can only suggest you get some sleep cause you need it :boring:

the number of Hillary supporters around here who just don't get that this is outrageous and criminal, no matter WHO is doing it.

That's how low we have sunk. No morality anywhere.

Inciting BHO people to mysteriously give a pass..."No morality anywhere" indeed! Or is that 'selective morality'? Which I find odd at best. Especially in a world steeped in hard core criminality: A, B & C felonies, assault & batteries, rank fraud, and usury lending practices; when willfully/wantonly walking backward on a blinky red *don't walk* sign routinely is cause for grave censure & fine at best, not "criminal" aspersion. Even if while having done so it remains, at it's base, 'illegal' having circumvented civil code. But we're not talking Leviticus here. Where it is also a breach to not erect a fence around a hole on your property so that your neighbor's ass falls into it. Clearly something less and not murder.

THAT is what we have come to; a people too willing to tag the transgressions of others onto candidates we aren't able to bring down for lack of any other reason.

SOMEBODY deliberately did this, right? Hatched the idea and carried it out. It's no accident. The perpetrators are no longer invisible and their apologies no longer carry any weight. They have been caught in highly incriminating circumstances. They R Democrats. They R Us. This is a huge betrayal of EVERYTHING we (supposedly) stand for. I don't imagine Hillary authorized this, but her people did.

These are illegal, criminal acts. I think we ARE talking Leviticus actually--there is a morality that's even higher than legality at stake here. How can people have any faith in a "democratic" election system if you want to minimize this kind of blatant suppression and allow it to continue?

Your candidate Hillary should come out and denounce this group and their activities...soon. She needs to throw them under the bus to save herself, if she can. She cannot afford to be associated with this outrageous voter suppression effort. We would be up in arms if the Rethugs did it and we can treat this NO differently.

I don't even see this as about Hillary vs Obama much--it's more about Democrats acting like Rethuglicans that is so discouraging. I object to this behavior as a lifelong DEMOCRAT first and foremost! Get the BIG picture.

Negative!

Here is an example of your 'selective morality' http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00213 If the war in Iraq was for none but for oil as many here at DU have believed all along...then why, did *your* candidate support the Bush/Cheney energy policy? And I will no longer accept winks & nods to alternative sources *of* energy (along with a paltry 3bil tax offset as well designed to placate the unknowing), when we should both know that they were only included to stroke folks such as yourself. Lending you, and folks like you, the feel-good sense of Lib/Pro credentials untested.

This is a world in which Exxon is about to post, if they haven't already, continued, record, obscene war-oil profits. Why? Has *your* candidate supported such a convoluted scheme as the one that was hatched behind closed doors as was the one that continues to hike ALL interests & energy related matters as the deliverance of food-stuffs to a starving world? Why?

When it is all said & done, your guy is a piker. And not filled with the levels of experience required to sustain this course much past winking & nodding along with what turns out to be crony no-bid war profiteers.

Deal with it or do not. *That* choice is yours to squander.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Didn't they contact the SOS's to find out Voter Registration DEADLINES?.?.?

I'm sure it isn't THAT hard to find out this info.

Why would they tell Voters to mail their Registrations back to them, instead of the SOS's?.?.?

Isn't that a misdirection, sending the registrations back to WV?.?.?

Why are they only targeting African Americans?.?.?

Certainly, there are other single potential voters from all races.

Seems to me they are NOT a serious organization. Perhaps they are trying to weed out potential voters from our party.:shrug:

This incident will be just one of many footnotes from the last days of a dying campaign.

Nobody ever prosecutes the losers of these affairs.

"if her campaign was still viable"... again, funny and so true!

and a rather GROTESQUE example of dirty Rove type politics. (I used grotesque on purpose - her campaign really makes me sick, the stuff she does is beyond acceptable)

They should start a criminal prosecution and prosecute those that were involved. Like all criminal prosecution you lean heavy and go up the food chain.

It is entirely possible that the Clinton campaign did not know about it and it was the work of a totally independent free lancer.

Take what evidence you have and start turning the screws. Prosecute everyone who is found by fact to be involved.

so WE HAVE TO.

Since 2000, it has never been any authority that has made gains in election reform. People, just ordinary people, have led the way. And this incident is no different from any other. We have to work it, we have to publicize it, we have to push the government and the judicial system on it.

I'm going to write and essay and get it put up somewhere. Anyone that can, should. And this story needs to be circulated via our personal networks. It's not necessary to claim Clinton is responsible but it is important that the many, many links to her campaign be brought to light.

Anyone that believes this was just a screw up, I have a nigerian scam for you.

"Race Memo" II. Ever wonder why all those TV pundits were spouting all those lies about Clinton's lack of foreign policy experience at the same time? I have found the second smoking gun of Obama Camp dirty tricks, which I am going to call "Tea Party Memo". Since it is 430 am here, I will book mark it and write it up tomorrow. I have already debunked most of these charges that idiots like KO have made in other journals so this will be easy as pie.

More evidence that the Obama campaign has resorted to dirty tricks and lies to discredit a perfectly good Democratic presidential candidate using their MSM contacts, mostly poor old dumb KO who ought to be getting pretty bummed at Obama by now. Note the camp pushed the sniper fire story in this memo. So much for no politics of distraction. Obama's campaign is such a phony.

I will have the journal ready by tomorrow. Here is the link

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/03/sweet_obama_advisor_greg_craig.html

Oh man! I love the internet. It is like an albatross. You can never run from your past mistakes with the internet.

--after a million hits on the video demonstrating the opposite.

Can't wait! You are the BESTEST!

Bush. McCain, Clinton

Same box, same message,same greed

illegal activity..........versus controversy.........okay, glen beck of DU.

oh my, i look forward to your cumbersome specious argument journal.

:rofl:

Anything to divert people from this thread. Sorry, that dog won't hunt.

Sounds exactly like some arguments I once read on freeperville. BTW, your link is to a paper that belittles Hillary's claim to foreign policy during her husband's reign. You are self deluded and are a candidate for serious mental health intervention. IMHO

Maybe before it's all over, you might be of a mind to expend some of your energy towards Obama's campaign to defeat Napoleon!

Powerful people are not subject to laws. This is the United States of America.

and Hills will stay in and fight the good fight...for the RNC BloodMoney Lobby.

There is no doubt in my mind that her campaign was involved in the robocalls. I am less confident that this will end her campaign, however, because of the lack of coverage in the MSM. When I see it on the front page of the LA Times, then I will believe it will kill her campaign.

Since the voters couldn't register at that time anyway, what was the nefarious agenda?

:shrug:

on edit, grammar

you'd have NO problem understanding.

This is a classic disruption tactic. Making calls (270,000 in NC!) 2 weeks before the primary telling people they must WAIT for material to come in the mail BEFORE they can register. This is even more deplorable if targeting black voters, perennial targets for this kind of vote suppression. Get it? :think:

Effects:

Voters who are already registered are confused and swamp the elections offices with worried phone calls, which is apparently what is happening in North Carolina and in other states previously. Voters are ESPECIALLY worried because the deadline has passed.

This hits at a time when election officials and citizens voting groups are trying to get people to understand that they CAN still register until May 2, IF they go to an early voting site and vote at the same time. And voters do NOT need to "wait for a form to come in the mail" --as they were told on the robocall. Some voters will believe that they've missed the deadline or be put off by the imperious tone of the unidentified robocall, and not vote. If the WVWV .org REALLY wanted to help people register, they would send the forms out well before the deadline, NEVER DURING the voting period.

This is usually a tactic carried out by Rethug operatives. I'm not sure if it's ever been linked to a Democratic group before. Election historians might have the answer to that.

I think it should be put in MSM and let the general people decide what they think of it?

Did your marching orders include a description of the calls and an explanation why they are illegal because I have no idea what you are talking about.

Instead of blindly protecting your candidate's illegal campaign activities. The NC Attorney General has called the calls ILLEGAL.

...is DU pushing this on the media, as well? If we're taking credit for the story about her racist family friend advising on the campaign, perhaps this could get pushed as well?

I want the media to throw the kitchen sink at Hillary. Now SHE is getting the pass and Obama is getting all the flak.

My God, let's see that dump truck of dirt dropped right on her head. Only four days until NC and IN.

but it will be interesting to see. The ABC blog has it about a third of the page down...like a side note. Who knows?

Illegal.

Any other questions?

I am not sure about NC, but it is here in WA.

But that is not the issue here. Please read post #133 for an explanation of why this is bad.


An investigation should be launched. Regardless if this leads to officials in the Clinton campaign or not, people should be going to jail over this.

if this kind of blatant voter suppression tactic has ever been linked with a Democratic (or any progressive) organization?

I know that some of these vote suppression activities have been traced to Rethuglican groups...but has this ever happened before with a Dem group? Is it a first?

Has ANY group ever done this within their own party, for that matter???

I imagine if it HAS happened --it was a D on R offense, not a Dem on Dem, which is the worst kind of betrayal....(although I'd never condone it at any time. This should NOT be "politics as usual")

Just wondering if there's any history to be had on this question...

:kick:

Hillary and her campaign need to start answering questions about this robo-calling connection now!

I don't see anything but innuendo and guilt by association so far.

We of all people should not jump to conclusions using guilt by association.

If we don't like it used on Barack then how do we say its ok if its Hillary?

That being said...... This primary sucks. As a Democrat the whole thing has me sick and discusted.

Hillary Clinton needs to address this immediately. Her aids appear to have close connections to the group. What gives?

All I'm asking for is an explanation from the Clinton campaign.

They are pronouncing her guilty without knowing crap. I see nothing she has done wrong....yet.

More investigating needs to be done before this is pinned on Hillary. Guilt by association is Bullshit.

The facts have been laid out. Two of her senior aides sit on the board of the organization, which is now under scrutiny by the Attorney General of North Carolina.

Why the silence from her campaign?

(by "nominate" I mean kicking her ass back to ... wherever the fuck she's from today)

:rofl:

this is the real story.:kick:

absolutely shameful tactics.

:mad: EXPOSE THE TRUTH!

more vapors, more fainting en masse.

by the corporate media.

Charges will be incredibly hard to connect to Clinton, I think.