I can't vote for Hillary given Kantor's OUTRAGEOUS remarks.

I'm shocked and have decided to go with Obama.

:-(

Obama supporters had to suffer through the onslaught. Guess what? It's your turn. You'll just have to go through it the way we did.

It's a shame you voluntarily exempt yourself from that group...


:-(

The hypocrisy here is astounding. "Good will", my ass.

And when you have to lie about people and put words in their mouths (Mr. Kantor) you have lost your soul...

Then all the Hillary supporters started saying "There's proof that the video was doctored". Just saying it doesn't make it true. Sorry.

Tapper says yes, then no, then maybe. Then the W Post article is posted that seems to confirm the original interpretation. I don't know. The youtube video is posted with subtitles, withdrawn by youtube, and then they post again without subtitles.

We need some kind of investigation into this.

And there are newspaper articles from 1993 that talk about this.

Unless this article was doctored too? :shrug:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/movies/videos/thewarroompghowe_a0b00d.htm

and see at least 20 of them did, but Desson T. was the only one who had this interpretation (which was then reported on by one other paper)?

I wish when my subjective interpretations are outnumbered 20-1, people would tell me I must be right!

in his review. That doesn't mean he's the only one who heard it that way. From what I understand there's at least one other contemporaneous article that mentions this explicitly.

made that interpretation.* So it's one person reporting what another person said, not two people independently reaching the same conclusion. Even if it were the latter - 2 had one subjective impression, 18 saw exactly the same film but did not? That's highly questionable evidence.

Further, your hypothesis makes no sense. If DT were the only one who "thought it worthy of mentioning" *soon after* a very heated and close campaign, why in the world is DT's interpretation of that incident NOW, 16 years later, so worthy of the frenzy it has caused among some people here?

is the idea that b/c other critics didn't mention it, that they never witnessed it, or interpreted his comments in that way.

you want to attack my reasoning, which you *misstated.* So let me lay it out a bit more simply.

If you want to argue that the interpretation DT made was the correct one, YOU have the burden of explaining incongruous events: Why is that that no one else, including at least 20 reviewers, most of whom are PAID to look carefully at such films, made a fuss about it at the time, yet it is NOW worthy of a fuss?

You need to acknowledge that the objective evidence suggests alternative interpretations are more reasonable, and that Kantor and the director have provided other explanations. Before you hop on the "yeah but the director likes Hillary!" bandwagon, ask yourself why a director who was more interested in promoting Clintons rather than the truth would not have edited out damaging or misleading information in the first place.

Maybe (a) none of the other reviewers "witnessed" the movie. Not likely, given that it was their job to review it carefully. Or maybe every one of the slept through that one passage? That's ridiculous.
Maybe (b) they heard the comments but interpreted them in a different way. You reject this, but provide no evidence supporting your rejection.
Maybe (c) they heard the comments, interpreted them as DT did, but didn't consider it worthy of comment. Most importantly, you have NO evidence that they interpreted this incident as he did but chose not to say anything. But let's assume that they did. Why was he the ONLY person who considered it worthy of comment, if they all agreed? And if most people at the time agreed it was a pretty insignificant matter, why is it NOW a big deal, 16 years later?

The only one of these possible alternatives that is consistent with the evidence or logic is (b).

If you want to have the last word, be my guest, but don't presume that the absence of logic or evidence will be persuasive to most unbiased people.

which is that you can't infer anything (positive or negative) from the silence of other critics. I'm not the one inferring anything from their silence; you were when you suggested that since he's the only contemporaneous source (out of 20 critics) we know of who commented on it, that that means something. It doesn't. That's all I'm saying...

I take him at his word.

and just as many saying he didn't so i'm going to call it a wash and just move the fuck on.

:rofl:

;-)

for the week that you claimed to be, anyway.

I've been away all day. I click on a link to youtube and see a younger, skinnier, Carville and Stephanopolous and I don't know what the heck is going on or what they think they're proving.

Looked around and it just seems strange.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/official-transc.html

GEORGE AND CARVILLE: Indiana, we're ahead.

JACQUELINE: Indiana!

GEORGE: Kentucky.

CARVILLE: Kentucky is five. Michigan is eleven, New York's done.

GEORGE: Holy s---, we're pulling away in Ohio.

CARVILLE: Oklahoma we're up.

GEORGE: Tied in Texas.

CARVILLE: Tied in Texas. It looks good. Now let's just say that. I like the text here.

GEORGE: Can you beep Wendy please? Looks pretty good. Looks pretty good.

MICKEY KANTOR: Look at Indiana. Wait, wait. Look at Indiana. Forty-two, forty. It doesn't matter if we win. Those people are s----ing (oh, excuse me) in the White House. How would you like to be... Look at Texas, go down to Texas.

CARVILLE: Even.

MICKEY: Yeah. Thirty-nine, thirty-nine.

CARVILLE: Perot's kind of holding, isn't he?

GEORGE: He held.

MICKEY: Yeah, he held. His numbers held. I'm sort of surprised, frankly.

***

So Kantor was NOT insulting Hoosiers, he was experiencing a moment of schadenfreude about the Bush (Sr.) White House.

Check it out HERE.

Now back to that other question -- who did the fake clip with Kantor saying the N word?!

It's the definition of a dirty trick -- and from what I can tell all the YouTube links have disappeared. Fingerprints gone

Interesting that he finally (?) concludes it's a dirty trick. In fairness to him - he said he was away from the office during some of the day and couldn't check some things - so now maybe he has had a chance to be satisfied with what he's learned. I hope those people who cited his earlier opinions note this one as well.

If you think it's easy to "doctor" a video to make someone say what they didn't, how about just deleting the part you don't want to hear? That's alot easier.

http://phfilms.com/

We would like to respond to some erroneous statements made today about our film, THE WAR ROOM. These statements alleged certain remarks to Mickey Kantor that simply are not true. The transcript of the scene in question confirms this.
-Chris Hegedus & D A Pennebaker


"THE WAR ROOM" TRANSCRIPT:



GEORGE AND CARVILLE
Indiana, we're ahead.

JACQUELINE
Indiana!

GEORGE
Kentucky.

CARVILLE
Kentucky is five. Michigan is eleven, New York's done.

GEORGE
Holy shit, we're pulling away in Ohio.

CARVILLE
Oklahoma we're up.

GEORGE
Tied in Texas.

CARVILLE
Tied in Texas. It looks good. Now let's just say that. I like the text here.

GEORGE
Can you beep Wendy please? Looks pretty good. Looks pretty good.

MICKEY
Look at Indiana. Wait, wait. Look at Indiana. Forty-two, forty. It doesn't matter if we win. Those people are shitting (oh, excuse me) in the White House. How would you like to be... Look at Texas, go down to Texas.

CARVILLE
Even.

MICKEY
Yeah. Thirty-nine, thirty-nine.

CARVILLE
Perot's kind of holding, isn't he?

GEORGE
He held.

MICKEY
Yeah, he held. His numbers held. I'm sort of surprised, frankly.

I USED MY THREE THREADS

I AM SORRY FOR SHOUTING BUT WHEN WE WERE KIDS IF WE LEARNED A KID WAS SPREADING "BAD" LIES ABOUT US WE KICKED HIS ASS...

We would like to respond to some erroneous statements made today about our film, THE WAR ROOM. These statements alleged certain remarks to Mickey Kantor that simply are not true. The transcript of the scene in question confirms this.
-Chris Hegedus & D A Pennebaker


"THE WAR ROOM" TRANSCRIPT:



GEORGE AND CARVILLE
Indiana, we're ahead.

JACQUELINE
Indiana!

GEORGE
Kentucky.

CARVILLE
Kentucky is five. Michigan is eleven, New York's done.

GEORGE
Holy shit, we're pulling away in Ohio.

CARVILLE
Oklahoma we're up.

GEORGE
Tied in Texas.

CARVILLE
Tied in Texas. It looks good. Now let's just say that. I like the text here.

GEORGE
Can you beep Wendy please? Looks pretty good. Looks pretty good.

MICKEY
Look at Indiana. Wait, wait. Look at Indiana. Forty-two, forty. It doesn't matter if we win. Those people are shitting (oh, excuse me) in the White House. How would you like to be... Look at Texas, go down to Texas.

CARVILLE
Even.

MICKEY
Yeah. Thirty-nine, thirty-nine.

CARVILLE
Perot's kind of holding, isn't he?

GEORGE
He held.

MICKEY
Yeah, he held. His numbers held. I'm sort of surprised, frankly.

on both the audio-enhanced (NOT faked or doctored) AND the original versions. Sure, there's room for reasonable doubt, but I think the media has an obligation to say that much rather than ignore it completely.

:headbang:
rocknation

:rofl:
rocknation

would all have to be doctored?

:-)

doesn't match up with the transcript?

or maybe you are hearing what you want to hear?

or forgetting that when the evidence on the video is unclear, and other evidence contradicts a particular interpretation, people should not go around making inflammatory accusations?

Official Transcript: Kantor Never Impugned Hoosiers
May 02, 2008 6:18 PM

Forgoing for a moment the dirty trick of the doctored clip from “The War Room,” which falsely had Mickey Kantor using a racial slur, the filmmaker behind the documentary has posted the clip on his Web site to clarify that other point of confusion -- what Kantor was referring to when he cursed. (An apparent source of confusion since the movie came out and some newspaper writers thought he was cursing Indianans. See previous post for that.)

Filmmakers Chris Hegedus and D A Pennebaker write: "We would like to respond to some erroneous statements made today about our film, THE WAR ROOM. These statements alleged certain remarks to Mickey Kantor that simply are not true. The transcript of the scene in question confirms this."

The official transcript:

GEORGE AND CARVILLE: Indiana, we're ahead.

JACQUELINE: Indiana!

GEORGE: Kentucky.

CARVILLE: Kentucky is five. Michigan is eleven, New York's done.

GEORGE: Holy s---, we're pulling away in Ohio.

CARVILLE: Oklahoma we're up.

GEORGE: Tied in Texas.

CARVILLE: Tied in Texas. It looks good. Now let's just say that. I like the text here.

GEORGE: Can you beep Wendy please? Looks pretty good. Looks pretty good.

MICKEY KANTOR: Look at Indiana. Wait, wait. Look at Indiana. Forty-two, forty. It doesn't matter if we win. Those people are s----ing (oh, excuse me) in the White House. How would you like to be... Look at Texas, go down to Texas.

CARVILLE: Even.

MICKEY: Yeah. Thirty-nine, thirty-nine.

CARVILLE: Perot's kind of holding, isn't he?

GEORGE: He held.

MICKEY: Yeah, he held. His numbers held. I'm sort of surprised, frankly.

***

So Kantor was NOT insulting Hoosiers, he was experiencing a moment of schadenfreude about the Bush (Sr.) White House.

Check it out HERE.

Now back to that other question -- who did the fake clip with Kantor saying the N word?!

It's the definition of a dirty trick -- and from what I can tell all the YouTube links have disappeared. Fingerprints gone.

- jpt

I watched the clip from the movie and he is saying "Those people are shi**ing...oh excuse me..." I couldn't make out what he said after that but to me it was obvious that he was talking about the people in the Whitehouse.

I don't claim to know Mickey personally but I did work with him in the early 80's when he was handling Jerry Brown's US Senate race in California and I have a very hard time believing he would make any racial slur. Period.

I think he will be looking into this and taking some legal action.

:patriot:

Gonna bounce back to Hillary when you bother to read up on the Rezko trial?

What the hell is wrong with you people? Seriously.

Voter suppression, NAFTA, disdain for democracy, use of bigoted racial politics, joining forces with the Right. Hillary seems intent on proving Nader right.