Obama Supporters on/off board couldn't alienate Clinton supporters more if they'd planned it.

I've seen a lot of Clinton supporters urging solidarity, and what do they see in return?

The same old crash and bash.

You know something? There's a reason Senator Clinton has the voting support of very close to half of the Registered Democrats, and that is they believe in her as strongly as supporters of Senator Obama believe in him.

That being said, Clinton Supporters do not appreciate the hate and bile being thrown their way and heaped on their candidate; and no matter what the Obama Supporters choose to believe, and it does absolutely nothing to "convert" the Clinton Supporters; in fact, it makes their support stronger and alienates them farther from the reconciliation so desperately needed in November. Would a person supporting Senator Obama feel kindly and in solidarity with another "Democrat" who called their candidate a liar or "Rovian?"

This board and the campaign are far past "conversions." At this point of the game, most supporters are set in rock, and the Independents are likely disgusted with BOTH campaigns...so maybe, after the dust settles tonight, perhaps it's time (far past time) for a break?

Whether you are on one campaign or the other, there are positives and negatives to both. We don't have to admit that right out loud, but for crying out loud, isn't it time to start being DEMOCRATS again?

I see so many Obama based polls saying "Wouldn't Clinton supporters prefer Obama to McCain?" with overwhelming YES as the results. These are posted, I assume, to promote Party Solidarity, but on the other side, I see much more Obama supporters saying they won't vote, or they'll write in. This is a contradiction that I do not understand.

Clinton Supporters should support Obama if he gets the nod because he's a DEMOCRAT, but Obama Supporters should shun Clinton if she gets the nod? You really need to re-think this.

I'll close with this concept: as Obama has a better chance at the moment than Clinton of being nominated (no matter what the consensus on how or why this has happened), it is far past time for Obama Supporters to quit alienating Clinton Supporters. You NEED them; the Michigan debacle still clouds the horizon, and I think you WANT Clinton supporters to work for Obama if he gets it.

But I'll tell you something; Obama Supporters alienate Clinton Supporters far more than Obama himself does. There are people here on the board, and off the board in real life that the thought of working with them on the General Election makes my flesh crawl, and since 1968 I've worked with some real losers.

Take that to heart. You need us, and we need you. Unless of course McCain is just fine with you, in which case...go to Hell.

Are you guys feeling like you lost?

See: "is the democratic tent too big"?

"if they planned it" is way too charitable.

Give me a fucking break. I'm really getting fucking tired of these "MY shit doesn't stink!" threads from Clinton supporters.

They are urging a Clinton-Obama ticket. You know, the loser takes the top spot ~~ I guess that is their idea of unity.

whoever comes out with the most delegates. Since it looks like Obama will come out on top it should be Obama-Clinton at this point. but there SHOULD be a unity ticket if we want a prayer at the GE.

You're smarter than this; I've read your stuff. Don't help the fanatics (from EITHER campaign) blow it in November.

I have not seen that happening other than declaring a unity ticket would work, with Clinton winning. I don't recall ever seeing the positions reversed by Clinton supporters, but I don't think that will or want that to work anyway. Too much water under that bridge for me.

We will either hang together or hang separately.

And you will simply have to take my word for it that I have seen far more percentage of Obama Supporters failing to support Clinton if she wins than vice versa...especially here.

This is an observation. And we need to stop feeding the fire.

So stop feeding the fire.
:shrug:

Nobody has to surrender. And I'm still allowed to defend myself, am I not?

tried". In fact, more so, since they support blatant race baiting by their candidate.

Transparent. Like "let's get behind a Clinton/Obama ticket." Uh-huh. :eyes:

If you don't want to talk armistice, then go somewhere and quit shooting for a while. You aren't helping anything.

I've posted in at least a half dozen over the past 24 hours. Perhaps you are blind to the olive branch?

I'm 55 and employed. I have to work and sleep sometime. "Let us reason together." - Lyndon B. Johnson

If you believe in doing more damage, keep talking. I didn't write ANYTHING like that, so your post is misplaced.

Sick.

The very headline is an attack on Obama supporters, as is much of your post. "Reconciliation" doesn't mean you act condescending and make demands of everyone.

I almost feel like that's been the goal all along: humiliation on a "Shock and Awe" level. My feelings are as valid as yours, to each of us.

I'm being honest. I'm also trying very hard to meet you in the middle. If you don't want to go there, then we might as well give up now.

"There are people here on the board, and off the board in real life that the thought of working with them on the General Election makes my flesh crawl"

This is what you call trying? Claiming you want to "reconcile," then turn around and say that they make your flesh crawl? Spare me.

Humiliation? How about latte liberals? Elitists? Bashing activists and bloggers who don't fall in line with the Clinton campaign? Marginalizing any group that doesn't support you? I suppose that if Hillary, by some miracle, gets the nomination, we are expected to simply forget all of that?

I'm all for reconciliation, but your condescending post is not an attempt at that. It is yet another in a long line of your posts designed to browbeat and shame the other side into agreeing with you, a tactic you've employed again and again throughout the years here.

Stunning that so many got right on board, without even noticing... telling, that.

I am certain that there are SPECIFIC people here you wouldn't call 911 for if they had a heart attack. I've been that way as well, but I'm TRYING to get over it.

I mentioned that there were SPECIFIC supporters. Are you not the same? And for every Obama basher, there's a Clinton basher.

ALL are guilty and ALL will be punished with McCain if we don't pull together.

I will vote for the Democrat. Will you?

This is how you sound "You are bad, I/we are good, stop being bad and lets reconcile".

The way to do it is, "We have done some bad things, you have done some bad things, lets both stop doing the bad and lets reconcile"

Clinton supporters = O8)

Obama supporters = :evilgrin:

sword cuts both ways and by the way, if don't apply this time.

to think that Clintonists name calling and insults should be considered! Only random insults by some Obama supporters should come up here! And shut up you Obama supporters that don't insult us. Your lack of support for Clinton proves you're unpatriotic! How dare you! Shut up already!

Our insults or Obama (the muslim) and his supporters are fair because Clinton is a goddess that is ordained to lead us to the promised land and only assholes would disagree with our logic, asshole.

Give me a break!

Tex Shelters

She has attacked us as elitists, she attacked us as party activists that don't matter... Nothing you can say about Obama supporters would be any worse than what Hillary herself has done. That's what is so damning about those that still support Clinton. They turn a blind eye to camp Clintons terrible actions and words.

So shall we just get in a circle and start shooting?

REALLY now. Stop sharpening swords and start getting ready to reconcile, or get ready for McCain. You really don't have a third choice here.

Clinton Supporters feel the same about Obama as you do about Clinton. You don't accept that; you don't have to.

It's time for an ARMISTICE, and if you aren't ready to talk then just stop shooting for a while and calm down.

That's both telling and troubling


If a Clinton supporter thinks Obama has been attacking Dems, then they have lost their grip on reality. If that's the case, there is nothing I can say or do that will change them or have an effect on them.

The voting will play out as it will, and the convention will play out as it will.

I am proposing perhaps at least in one small corner of the campaigns we stop making it WORSE, God Damn It!

If ears are deaf - let it be.

we wouldn't be in this pickle now. I don't blame her supporters. They take their cues from their candidate. And she is playing mean.

YOU are his surrogates. Do you think Clinton supporters want to cozy up with someone who accuses their candidate?

Time to cut your losses and QUIT BICKERING. There's more than enough dirt on both sides, whether you choose to accept it or not.

...especially Obama supporters.

WE don't run Hillary's campaign. SHE does.

from the Obama supporters. Not. Even. Close. There have been a few nasties, but not nearly as many as the Hillary groupies have spawned.

I am one who reads far more than I post in GD:P and day after day after day there are threads (posted by the same dozen or so people) criticizing Obama and calling his supporters names. They really need to ask for their own forum - maybe a We Hate Obama forum?

I see the same names posting nasty threads criticizing Clinton. Day after Day.

Isn't it time to STOP? Haven't both sides soaked each other with enough piss?

I'm trying to be bigger than the posters and outside supporters that I perceive to be abusive to Clinton, and believe me it isn't any easier than your road.

I am suggesting that you AND I can rise above the bullshit we are both DROWNING in. I am suggesting that if we TRY we can exhibit better character than the mudslingers.

Am I wrong?

about Clinton. And then notice that Clinton supporters are responding--not initiating. Self Defense.

has been any nastier than Obama's.

He bashes Hillary for running a negative campaign, then continues hurling mud at her... I would call that the pot calling the kettle black. No, let's just call it by its true name: hypocrisy.

I can't stand either candidate and I certainly don't trust either of them to end the war or to prosecute BushCo, my two biggest policy points.

I will, however, hold my nose and vote for one of them.

All this fighting is disgusting... they both reek.

As said by Edward Rutledge of South Carolina prior to the drafting of the Declaration and in response to an anti-slavery remark (commenting on the "Triangle Trade"):

"HAIL BOSTON! HAIL CHARLESTON! Who stinketh the MOST?"

I have never ever supported the notion that Obama supporters should vote for McCain. THere's been plenty of venom hurled by both sides. The Clinton camp is hardly guiltless.

NO. But the rhetoric has to cool off. Now. I'm trying to take a first step, but my patience is not endless.

She's been his greatest campaign prop.

I suppose she was tired and misspoke when she made all of those truly disparaging comments about Obama, and praised McCain.

I remember sexist off the cuff remarks, and support for disparaging comments as well. Time for this to stop.

Saying "the claws come out" is hardly equivalent to saying McCain is qualified to be commander in chief, and Obama is not. That's what I'm talking about.

I didn't. I don't want to participate any more in EITHER campaign if it can't stop.

Did I say McCain is qualified? Why are you quoting more off subject? There are Obama ads running right now that I could cite for lies, but I won't. I don't want to go there anymore.

I want McCain defeated. If this isn't what you want at all costs, then there's nothing else I can say.

Cowbell? absolutely!

This would make a great skit.

Cultists, and much more. It runs both ways. And considering that there are far fewer Clinton supporters here, proportionately there are actually more anti-Obama posts than anti-Hillary ones.

Just disingenuous in the worst way.

I don't know how you slimed off my ignore list, but you're one of the worst.

Clinton said it a while back. Do your own research: I'm not electioneering. I'm lobbying for Solidarity and PEACE.

especially coming from the faux, born-again populist Hillary Clinton aka DLC's Al From's "candidate."

If Obama wins, I'll try to find other supporters of his to work with. You just prove my point.

Both sides feel shat on. Solidarity is the only answer. If you aren't ready yet, then you aren't ready.

This is not rocket surgery.

Can you rise about the name calling and bullshit or not? I deplore the bottom feeders on both sides: why do you think I've taken back my party membership? If both sides would stop the "ELITIST/BITCH/RACIST/HARRIDAN" garbage, maybe we could work together a little more comfortably once there's a nominee.

Can we be on the same side or not? Armistice does not demand surrender, and you seem to need it.

This whole "You fuckers are mean, all I want is peace" act is beyond stupid.

However, this thread has gone swimmingly. :popcorn:

But instead of being rational, many on this site are (while, ironically, consdiering themselves among the *most* rational on the site) blaming one camp for being worse than the other.

Here's another newsflash: that behavior (refusing to be rational, and instead unfairly blaming one group - necessarily painting the other group as victims) makes things worse.

We need you. You need us. I agree.

:hug:

Sorry

Bring yourself. Solidarity and down with McCain.

Ribs, bakers, tricolors of peppers on the grill. PH is bringing beer. How about dessert?

after reading your stuff again, I don't know why I did anything so stupid in the first place.

Come over here: I'll do ribs, bakers, and veggies. Bring beer.

and call her campaign Rovian if those things weren't true. But they are. And I'm not going to ignore them just so we all feel better, as a Democrat her campaign disgusts me and I'm not going to stop pointing that out just because it may be mean of me.

If the Clintons had run a classier campaign that wasn't one big smear job from the beginning, people wouldn't be talking about her like they are. But people aren't going to just ignore facts.

I posted a thread yesterday in which two of Hillary's Finest were challenging each other on who could get more people to put them on ignore.

I guess that was "solidarity" Hillary style. :eyes:

Kephra would have been more open to armistice. HE used that avatar if you'll recall.

You stated that Clinton supporters are crying for solidarity and I pointed out that many of the worst are still just trying to instigate hard feelings. When people go around challenging each other to be the most offensive they are hardly looking for unity.

Look, most Hillary supporters are great people who I respect, just like the majority of Obama supporters. However, your O/P ONLY takes Obama supporters to task and that is wrong. Some Obama supporters are assholes and I have them on ignore along side the idiot Hillary supporters who try to cause hateful feelings, but most Obama supporters, myself included, have tried to push solidarity long before now (if you don't believe it just do a search on my posts from about a month ago and longer). Suggesting now that we're all hatemongers is crass, at best.

By the way, if I remember Kephra the way I think I do, he would have been all for solidarity but he would also have called you out on your post just like I have. He's the reason I use that avatar and I don't think I'm dishonoring his memory in the slightest by stating the truth. Do you?

I speak for myself.

And you obviously didn't know him as well as I did. He would have been appalled at this bullshit.

I have tried very hard on this thread to remind people that there are two sides to this shit bath. I did not suggest ALL were hatemongers. I suggested (as on BOTH SIDES) that SOME were.

You and I are not stating TRUTH here. We are still on the OPINION page. You want TRUTH?

I hate both of them.

We led the Republicans by 13% last year at this time using "Generic Democrat" on the polls. Look at us now. It's a tossup between a neophyte freshman senator with new baggage and a wife that won't shut up, and the one woman everyone 1 mm RIGHT of center loves to hate.

NEITHER of these assholes have on their agenda:

*IMMEDIATE end to this continuing war crime in Iraq
*Universal Single Payer Health Care
*END of the Tax Cuts for the Wealthy
*REAL jobs programs

I could make this list down the page. They're CENTRISTS!! BOTH OF THEM. I'm a Democratic SOCIALIST; I would have to hold my nose and carry an air sickness bag to vote for EITHER of them. I find Clinton marginally less noxious, and I'm TIRED of being beat up for it.

As far as I'm concerned, by holding out the armistice ONE MORE TIME, I'm showing myself to one of the few non-hatemongers LEFT HERE.

You've got a chance to join me in at the peace table. I'll be serving ribs, grilled veggies and bakers. the beer will be Stella Artois. If you have any special diet restraints, or can bring something, say so.

Time to be REAL PROGRESSIVES again, not these 95% the same assholes.

I find that concept repugnant and very disrespectful.

Second, I just reread your O/P and I couldn't see anyplace you said that Hillary supporters were also to blame for this "shitbath", only an attack on Obama supporters who engage in it.

Lastly, I fully understand your exasperation, I feel it nearly every day after reading the threads here. I get disgusted with "the evil Wright" threads and the "she couldn't have a bookbag" bullshit. I also get sickened by the nonstop rightwing opinion columns being foisted to the rest of us as though they were paragons of reason and not the hatred on paper they are. And I do want solidarity. I want us all working together. However, I'm still going to call you out when you post an O/P like you did. It wasn't fair to call Obama supporters out and then suggest that you were talking about both sides later.

Anyway, I'll take you at your word and believe that you want to get to fighting for the Democrats as much as I do. So lets just stop fighting and accusing. Let's move forward because that's what progressives do.

Solidarity, brother. :dem:

I'm through fighting until I'm fighting McCain.

However, it would be nice if you were to edit your O/P to make it less confrontational to Obama supporters, don't you think?

I'll do something dead neutral tomorrow. Deal?

One way or the other, I think it will be in order.

And thanks.

I volunteered to have the "Armistice Barbeque." IF we ever have one. I have a very large grill.

Smoked, of course. :)

I will have Stella Artois, but we don't have dessert or potato salad yet.

:puke:

for all but the most invested Hillfans. By that I mean someone who endorsed Hillary.

Next.

to shut up, or their vote doesnt count, and called names like 'chickenshits' and 'zombies....

yeah, take a look at yourself before you start throwing stones... k ?

And I'm from Michigan, so I've got a lot to bitch about "votes not counting."

I don't want McCain. Do you?

I only became a Clinton supporter (but was never an Obama supporter) after John Edwards dropped out. I never was going to vote for Obama, but I sure wasn't a Clinton supporter.

But I am now, oh yes I am. With every vile attack on her, a Dem who has done more for this party and this country (even though she has made some mistakes) than any of these yahoos trying to tear her apart, my eyes have been opened more.

I am dirt poor, but I managed to find 25 bucks to donate to her campaign.

If I had money, I would send it.

The Obama supporters are reminding me more and more of Bush supporters.

And you know what? It's too late. There's no way I'm voting for him. I dont' care if he's the nominee or not.

If he's the nominee, I'm writing in Al Gore for Pres and Jimmy Carter for Vice Pres.

ETA :

Like I said -- It's too late -- they've done it -- the Obama supporters, and not just here on DU, but *everywhere* on line and off -- have alienated me personally to the point where I can never see myself voting for him.

I have always (in over 20 years of voting) voted the straight D ticket. I have never, ever, ever voted for a Republican.

I consider myself a socialist.

And I consider Obama to be a fraud.

I would bet 10,000 bucks that over half of the people on this board who plan to vote for Obama voted for George W Bush.

So they can go ahead and call me a bad dem or whatever it is they like to throw around, but we *all* know the truth, which is why the fuckers are so godamned RABID

I am displeased and insulted by many Clinton supporters here. I am repulsed by the campaign Hillary Clinton has run and by such comments as her obliterate Iran one. I consider her to be opportunistic and willing to sell out dems to advance her own ambition at the drop of a hat. And yet because I'm a real dem, and because I understand how disasterous McCain would be, I'll vote for her if she's the nominee.
.

I certainly did not vote for Bush. I voted for Al Gore and Kerry. I've never even thought about supporting a repug for president. And I vote for the only socialist in the entire Congress and have for years.

Stop flinging your bullshit accusations.

SURE as a Democratic Socialist, I would love nothing more than a mini-meltdown that brought about true Progressive Socialistic Parliamentary Democracy. Hearing "He/She will LEAD us..." scares the living fuck out of me...but it's time for an armistice.

I hope you'll join me: McCain might bring about the enventual result I'd like most quicker, but will it be worth the heartache?

seriously. I can use the money.

Clinton alienated me and 3.2 million others.

I'm not contributing to MoveOn for the next 2 years.

As for MoveOn, you do realize they polled their members? You certainly had an opportunity to join and vote in their poll.

I also have a feeling MoveOn will survive without you. LOL

you're not expected to vote for them....

she has to live with the consequences. I am not buying into the bull shit that Obama is just as bad, because he isn't. Hillary's actions seperated her from the usual personal preference thing.

Obama is winning. When a candidate is winning a candidate starts to prepare for the next battle whenever possible, because it is always better to be prepared. If Obama follows through and wins (and many Obama supporters like to claim that he has already won) then his next battle is to unify the Democratic Party behind him, heal the divisions, and pump up the enthusiasm level of all Democrats toward his candidacy.

Though your thread is about the need to reconcile candidate supporters, and not about the contest between the candidates, it is being used by some posters to keep slamming a candidate.

It is a farce to pretend that Obama supporters are receiving the same degree of openly harsh treatment as candidate supporters on this board as are Clinton supporters. Sure both sides get called stupid and dishonest, but only Clinton supporters are routinely called anti-progressive traitors to the Democratic Party. But even if the abuse were equal, the political heavy handedness being shown by supporters of the candidate who supposedly will shortly be calling on all of us for our support is astonishing.

this is only his latest in the same category of bile directed at Obama or his supporters.

Proportionately, Clinton supporters here generate as much nastiness as Obama supporters. Only Obama supporters are called cultists or latte drinking elitists.

Perhaps it is more incumbent on Obama supporters to reach out, but 99% of Clinton supporters here completely deny that he's *really* in the lead. They say he's imploding or that his lead isn't significant.

It needs to come from both sides. And a post like this advances nothing but more ugliness.

They make sense, but there are two bottom line realities that stand out for me:

1) People can call me lots of political insults, but a right wing traitor to the Democratic Party is at the ultimate top of that list. I would much rather be called out for having a pointed head and snorting Starbucks Espresso beans while bathing in a vat of Kool Aid than that.

2) The odds favor Barack Obama needing to unite Democrats behind him rather than Hillary Clinton needing to unite Democrats behind her.

It will be very hard, and many will be there to say "I told you so."

The SMART Obama Supporters if he wins will just shut up and soldier.

I'd have given you a big thumbs up if you didn't just blame the Obama supporters. Shows that you're not so sincere after all.

Do you ask for a mea culpa I don't feel? Then get used to waiting.

There's enough dirt on both sides. Time for the armistice.

You might know them; they're a bunch of poofy, out of touch, trustafarian, birkenstock wearing, prius driving coastal elitists...

...

:eyes:


Right, there's been no nasty shit-flinging done around here by Hillary supporters.

Sure.

Anyway, yes, we're all ostensibly on the same team. Thanks for the reminder. Really.

...DON'T BLAME Obama or his supporters for HILLARY'S despicable Republican behavior in this campaign.

WE don't run her campaign. SHE does.

Tell it to Hillary and stop projecting HER failures and her disgusting right-wing tactics onto other people.

And I really do regret that but this place brings out my darker angels a lot. I will be the first to offer olive branches when this is finally over but I'm finding it hard to abide anyone who would support Clinton any longer. How she has conducted her campaign is reprehensible IMO.

And I know I'm going to get shouted down.

I believe, with everything that I am, that Obama has run a reprehensible campaign and I believe that it started with McClurkin.

Obama purposefully promoted hate speech at his campaign event because he needed African American Evangelical Churches in South Carolina to be on his side.

That kicked off his campaign.

He used hatred of LGBTQ to start his campaign.

Whether you agree with that or not, it's what I *know*

So you can say you can't see how anyone can support Clinton and I say I can't see how anyone can support Obama.

And I *know* we're never going to see eye to eye.

Remember that you have a MIRROR on the other side.

Time to stop fighting. This bad show will play out as it will.

If you can't be nice, you can't come over for ribs. I already have three Obama supporters on the list.

IMO, some Hillary supporters are the nastiest people I've ever dealt with on a message board, bar none.

I feel Obama has tried to run a clean campaign and has only occasionally fallen into the dark side, primarily to defend himself against Clintons' (both of them) attacks. Hillary, on the other hand, has based the entire campaign since her third place finish in Iowa, on tearing Obama down.

Is that statement true or false, in your opinion??

And if it is true, shouldn't you be cutting Obama supporters a little more slack than your original post allows?? Don't you really see that the attacks on Hillary on this board have been muted and civil compared to what they could have been?


One way to test your answer to these questions is ask this __ if Hillary does win the nomination, how much more negative will the Republicans and Republican supporters be on Hillary, than Obama and his supporters have been on Hillary, so far??

Don't try to convince me, I won't try to convince you; and believe me we can trade shots all day.

You either go for the armistice, and no matter who wins we go to defeat McCain, or you still have some thinking to do.

You need to climb on board the Obama wagon and you need to let go of the idea that Hillary Clinton is good for the country or good for women. Her candidacy has set back the women's movement by 20 years, and she should not be president of the United States. That would set the Democratic Party back 20 years.

:sarcasm:

At least.

"your" meaning the Obama supporters en masse.

I was a Corpsman. I vote PEACE. If you can't sign the armistice, then you aren't ready.

"NO. But the rhetoric has to cool off. Now. I'm trying to take a first step, but my patience is not endless."
:scared:

...and we will be obliterated!


:scared:

The problem with this OP is not so much WHAT he says, as
HOW he says it.

Like he possesses an olive branch to BESTOW upon anyone....

If you don't agree with him on anything and everything,
he thinks you are being "rude".

I will be glad when Obama cleans up in NC, and "HC"
just goes away.

Or as opinionated.

Or such a bully.

We each have our opinions, but the war is against McCain. If Obama wins, he's general; same for Clinton.

after hill goes home, i will free my whole ignore list. in the meantime, plonk.

This is a war. It's against McCain. It's time all of us realized that.

a close election in both places takes a pile of delegates out of play, whittles away at the magic number.
yea it is time all of us realized that. you first. like howard dean said, the most important person in november is the loser. somehow i do not see hillary being a gracious hard working loser.
till tomorrow, plonk

I've not been alienated by Clinton supporters, because I don't really care what other people think. This is not a barb about Clinton supporters, I just don't get wound up by what other people think about me, or political positions anymore.

The fact remains that I've been alienated by the Clintons!

When I think of all the tremendous amount of energy I spent defending the Clintons in the 90's, I feel betrayed to learn what bottom feeders they are. It broke my heart to see this unfold the way it has. I feel like I was conned by a couple of hucksters. :(

I had not idea there were such hateful - Republicanesque - people within the Democratic party. It's making me rethink being affiliated with any party at all.

And this week I went Independent. I will still vote for the democrat.

Join me in the Armistice?

Closed Government Democrats and anyone who WANTS to see closed government secrecy and privilege continued into the next decade.

TOUGH SHIT to anyone who calls themselves a Democrat and sides with closed government. Those folks are NOT Democrats to me.

If that offends anyone - oh well.

The Clintons and their supporters have continually insulted Obama supporters/voters, and Hillary/Bill have actually said that entire states worth of Dem voters were not important, just because they voted for Obama. African-Americans who vote for Obama also aren't important anymore. And it goes on and on.

Hillary has used nothing but divisivness, even creating fake groups (the OBama "elites") to demonize.

The only time Hillary and her supporters want "solidarity" is when they are begging for Hillary's position on OBama's VP slot, or begging for OBama supportes' votes if Hillary wins (which she will not).

Hillary and her supporters have gotten what they wanted: many Obama supporters, clearly understanding their votes are not important to the Clinton campaign, won't bother giving their votes in any way, shape or form to a Clinton.

:puke:

If so, maybe you should get a new manual. Usually when one is "reaching out" "go to Hell" is not part of the dialogue.

based on the actual CANDIDATE???

:shrug:

Someone said that to me in another thread, and it's so very true. I wish I could find it because I'd give credit where credit is due... and this statement sums it up nicely.

I don't understand why people aren't ready to make nice. Seems they WANT to continue the bashings, and the poo slinging, and the hating.

Why? Why are these DUers clinging to the hate so tightly? Is this what their candidate instills in them? Scary. Scary as all hell.

The candidates are so similar in policy and voting record that the only thing they can talk about it nasty minutia.
Those playing the mud flinging game are, in my view, useful supernumiaries making the theatre that benefits the eventual nominee and the Party as a whole. They are self important and unaware of the role they play, but that it their role. Bickering extras filling out the scene, increasing the dramatic tension without having an affect upon the actual storyline.
In short we have nothing to discuss in terms of candidate differences, but we need a long cycle and this is how we keep the eyes glued to the Democratic Party. Politics is like wrestling and religion, those making the show know it is a bit of a fake.

Sums it up very, very nicely!

So they've talked themselves into blaming Clinton for everything.

This is why the MSM is so credible, all of a sudden.

How people around here supported him through all the same things they are hurling at him now?

Interesting turn. She's no worse than Obama; they are more alike than most would admit.

That "me too" bullshit worked so well in 2000. :crazy:

If you have any special diet needs, let me know.

I'll bet you have. As usual, I don't see a lot of truth in your screed.

who disagree with him.

He is a bully.

Plain and simple.

Heaven forbid we should even have a moment of unity.

:sarcasm:

That is what you were talking about, right? What is the basis for your "moment of unity"? You all must be nice to me and I get to say "go to hell" to you?

Is exactly what started it all.


Thanks and good luck. Dont forget to vote for Obama in the GE.

None of this will stop until there is a nominee, because neither side will stop before then. That's two sides, not one.

This forum (GD-P) has become nothing more than a cesspool of childish name calling on both sides. It's nothing more than dueling whack-a-moles, and nothing you say is going to change it.

:shrug:

and vice versa, by the way.

Hey, let's have fun pretending that Obama supporters and Hillary supporters are both monolithic groups that all believe the same thing! It's like racism and sexism, only it's not.

Only it is.

they've been. That's the reconciliation you get because you lost. If you feel bad because you've painted yourself into a corner by convincing yourself that Obama is hateful, arrogant, elitist, uppity or whatever that's your own fault and your own problem.

Let's not try and play pep rally here.

You have your gripes and feel they're valid, so do I. Shouldn't that SETTLE it?

Obama will likely win. I will try to support him. What will you do if Clinton wins?

I have painted myself into no corners, and I use no epithets on this thread. I take the High Road. Will you join me or not?

The losing side can suck it up or fuck off. The winning side will try not to rub it in too much. That's all there is to it.

you can't judge Obama based on anonymous nimrods who support him on the internets.

My opinion is we blew it again, but we better scramble so as not to let McCain get in.

Sign the armistice, come to the barbeque.

should not be referred to by any derogatory term, only "supporters" or "followers" or similar terms.

When someone refers to me as "Hillarybot" this person may just as well not respond since whatever else is in the comment will be ignored. (No, I don't use the "ignore" function. This is not what political forums are about, but I can ignore most threads and individual posts by just glancing at them).

The Democrats are two parties, and you're finally seeing them split.

One half are the Clinton center-runners, the Moderates, who really aren't Democrats in the traditional sense. They're not a party of the people, they're Republican Lite. No Progressive principles, no real plans for the future, just "Not what the Republicans want to do."

The other half are Liberals and Progressives, people who want to see progress and change, and who want to see America move in a different direction.

Hillary is the Moderates, Obama is the Liberals. It's that simple.

What's at stake here is the soul of the Democratic Party. They've been ideologically bankrupt for decades. Now there's actually a chance for someone to not only put the country back on track, but the entire Democratic Party.

So why should Obama supporters support Hillary when she is diametrically opposed to what they believe in?

It's about time that we broke out of this stupid Party mentality and started thinking like individuals again. If the Democratic Party serves the ideological and political goals of the Liberal movement, then they deserve the support of Liberal democrats, and independents like me who vote progressively but refuse to register Democratic due to the aforementioned ideological bankruptcy. There are a LOT of us in the same boat - we win your elections for you nowadays. Or lose them for you.

If Hillary steals the nomination through chicanery and old-school political dogfighting, which is PRECISELY what the Liberal movement is sick of, why the hell SHOULD we vote for Hillary? She doesn't represent us. *Her* Democratic Party doesn't represent us.

Obama's *does*.

Don't simplify this into "Hillbots" and "Obamabots." There is a LOT more at stake in this Primary and this GE than most people seem to be talking about...

Neither of them supports enough progressive agenda in my book to be a liberal.

And their voting record is 95% the same.

If I could wave a wand and make them BOTH go away, I wouldn't hesitate for a second.

There are political realities to being a United States Senator. I honestly believe that many votes Senators take are utterly meaningless. What matters is ideology.

As a lone Senator, what can Obama do? As a progressive voice, what does he do surrounded by mainstream, moderate Democrats?

You can't just go proposing bills left and right and expect yourself to have the cache to get anything done. Obama is very much a fish out of water in the Senate.

As President, he gets to set the tone. He can open the door to Progressive legislation. He has the power of an entire branch of government to pursue his goals.

So don't judge Obama by his voting record. That's rather ignorant in the face of political reality.

What matters is what a politician is going to do once they really get freed of so many fetters.

And I don't see much of it currently.

From either side.

than one who is supported by Bayh, Wasserman-Shultz, and
RUSH LIMBAUGH!

Some are not tuned in well enough to sense it and some are resistant to change or just have their own reasons. I don't subscribe to chicken little but probably like most would agree there are major changes being made in the in party. Those changes sometimes dramatic but sometimes just subtle. Those connected are having difficulty connecting to others that have found others ways to connect.

Just think of those words, "The Democratic Leadership Council" and try to imagine if they are a contradiction to each other

Before all the other candidates dropped out of this race, Clinton and Obama consistently came in last in every DU poll. That's because they were the two most centrist candidates running. It's all there, in the archives, if you feel like looking. They are both moderates, and have so little difference in their platforms and ideologies that the only way to differentiate between the two is to start attacking each other's personalities - which is what they did.

Actually the Clinton endorsements of republican candidates and ideas is a ploy to make their positions look more palatable and tow more scared and weak minded people to their side of the line.

The Decoy Effect, or How to Win an Election
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/01/AR2007040100973.html

No one in their right mind or with half a brain would decide who to support or not support based upon the actions or words of a candidate's supporter.

:eyes:

Wow, what a bunch of over-sensitive whiners. People complaining that the Obama supporters are big meanies remind me of preschoolers who grab a truck away from another kid, push them in the sand, and then complain to the teacher when the other kid smacks them.

Hillary would sell her soul to get elected - in fact, I think she has. No way in hell she will EVER get my vote, not even for dog catcher.

What a joke. This is just like Bush "The Uniter, not Divider."

All they care about is winning this primary--they have absolutely zero ability to think beyond their desperate desire to GLOAT GLOAT GLOAT and be even bigger assholes than they already are.

There are a few Obama supporters who aren't like this. A few. But not many. I'm ready to give up on this site, this party, and the entire fucking country because I SEE NO DIFFERENCE between Obama and his supporters and the Repukes and THEIR supporters. I'll vote Dem in November, but if Obama wins and doesn't pick Clinton as his running mate, I'm switching to the Green party and leaving DU.

I'd rather vote for losers with integrity than losers without it.

Gee whiz, thanks a lot. I wonder why you are seeing hostility from Obama supporters when you call them Republicans. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm not talking about policies and ideologies. I'm talking about the way that they treat others--especially people they consider to be opponents. I have done nothing to anyone here--I've never personally called someone out, and I've criticized my own candidate when she needed it. I supported the idea that MI and FL shouldn't get to seat delegates without a new primary. I am no "Hillbot". But I am tired of trying to be rational among a horde of irrational cheerleaders.

I've had it. All of the smug, swaggering "Get over it!" "Deal with it!" "We don't need you!" "We won, you lost, tough shit!"

I've had to listen to that shit for eight years from Republicans, and I've lived with the anger and the frustration that goes along with it. And now I have to hear it every damned day on DU as well, from snotty little smart-asses who treat politics like it's a damned football game, chest-beating and all.

I am so done with this shit.

You need to dial it down a notch.

As for your assessment that Hillary supporters want to "unite", I have NO IDEA where you got that from. Point me in the general direction where that has been the case.

As for Obama supporters, I would venture to say that they (and I) are sick and tired of having to defend Obama against crap that has been spewed from the likes of Mark Penn, James Carville and the others in the Hillary Clinton campaign. We don't just sit down and take it. We strike back. Like any decent proud Democrat would...

If you want to help get Obama in the White House, feel free to join in. We are actually nice people in general...the ones I've met in the street over the past year and a half are great, hard-working folks.

We don't bite unless you force us to. What would you expect otherwise?

n/t

Just sayin'


:shrug:

Obama supporters for the most part (yes there are some jerks out there) just point out what Clinton has said and done and why they won't vote for her.

Clinton supporters do the same with some added vitriol because some perceive dislike of Clinton as misogyny. Many Clinton supporters use name calling, generalization and hateful language about penises and "idol worship" etc. I am sure Obama supporters have, but the closer Clinton gets to losing, the more hateful her supporters are.

So, how is telling it like it is creating division? Because the candidate that was pick to win, the woman, will lose.

Sorry, I don't hate her; I don't think she would be a good president. Is that divisive, do we question her patriotism or readiness or her toughness like Clinton has question Obama. No. So what has been so divisive? The Rovian comment? I didn't decide about Clinton until I heard her talk. Frankly, she is very unimpressive and offers about as many specifics are Obama (very few). Why does Obama have the Rep for not being specific? Because it has been hammered into us by the media and Clinton campaign. Each has ideas and plans, but you have to go to their websites and read them there. So if you don't like Obama, you don't read his plans and don't think he has any, and the same is true for Clinton. If you don't like her, you don't go to her site and read about her ideas.

So both camps are full of angry idol worshipers. However, I don't want war with Iran, I don't want more "Welfare to Work", I don't want someone beholden to the health care industry (Clinton number one recipient) and I don't want Clinton and her exaggerated claim of "35 years experience" in the White House. She lied about her influence in Ireland and the sniper fire in Bosnia and would rather focus on Wright through her surrogate Stephanopoulos than talk about any other issues. Obama isn't great, but he's no Hillary Clinton.

Don't flame me bro. Come with reasons and examples.

Tex Shelters

Clinton supporters urging solidarity? You mean the handful who aren't screaming bloody murder and trying to accuse our nominee of everything from vote fraud to murdering puppies?

If you can't recognize that it's the Clinton camp that started the nastiness, and has provoked the rage and resentment that is felt towards them by people who are paying attention to the race, then there's nothing I can do to help you.

But of course, reality wasn't your point. Despite your protestations of non-partisanship, you've been bashing Obama from Day 1, claiming an unbiased opinion while spewing Clinton talking points in every sentence.

It will be over soon enough, and you can show us how well you adjust to backing Obama.

If someone reasonable was running Republican (in some other reality or universe; maybe) I would vote for them.

Both of them are Centrist Moderates whose actual mouthings (besides the meaningless rhetoric) would have passed as Nixonian Republican in 1972.

The make Nelson Rockefeller look like a LIBERAL.

Call me after the revolution if we still have phones.