What might have been: had Michigan and Florida kept their original primary dates.

Just think of the impact that the primary in Michigan would have had if they had kept the date at the end of February, after Super Tuesday, and Florida (especially FL) would have stayed in March. Funny how things work out.

I think that FL would have gone to Hillary but MI would have gone to Obama in greater numbers. It would have been a wash.

What I think would have happened is that Edwards could have stayed in longer.

Hillary would have kicked ass in Florida.

That is why Michigan usually votes Democratic in presidential elections and Ohio turns repub. Ohio has much more in common with Kentucky and Indiana than Michigan. While I agree that northern Ohio has a rust belt much like us, they have more population in the south and that is where the repubs get their margin.

Also, the size of Wayne County, which contains Detroit and is solidly Dem, is really unlike any county I can think of in Ohio. There may be similarities but no Dem county in Ohio holds the power that Wayne does in MI.

who have suffered significant job loss. Like Pennsylvania, they are old rust belt states.

I think the fact that Ohio goes red (other than fraud) has more to do with southern Ohio. Northern Ohio is not that different from southern Michigan.

And they're both Great Lakes states.

I think Edwards could have held his own in both states, actually.

It was only an agreement to give MI the UP that let Toledo and much of the other industrial areas go to Ohio. So yes, they do have much in common with us. However, just like us Detroiters (Lincoln Park, really) are held hostage by an uneven representation in our state's legislature, northern Ohio is held hostage by southern OH.

I supported Edwards but I don't think he would have done all that well in MI despite Bonior being his campaign manager. Just like Dean in 2004, Edwards was not going to be allowed to win the nomination. The corporate media ground him up long before Iowa. I have grave doubts that we will every see another progressive president in this country. Roosevelt was the first and last.

And I have a book about it, that was written by a nun, of all things.

My family have been in Michigan since 1801. I'm an eight-generation Detroiter (well, the metro area).

As you know, we're all told the story of the war and the six pigs that were killed. :)

Personally, I wish Michigan had gotten control of northern Ohio but what's done is done.

What's the name of the book? I'd like to read it.

It's one of those crazy 70s books with a scribbly drawing on the front and pale blue lettering for the title. It's the kind of thing you'd find at (and we probably did) the Michigan Historical Museum. I should have said WE have it - it's at my mom's house - and if we have, I'm sure it's all told from the Michigan POV.

I love stuff like that and the best perspective is from the Michigan POV. :evilgrin:

I don't know why, we just don't like them, which is strange, because I like the Toledo Art Museum, and even Cleveland, but other than that, ptui!

I'm turning 40 this year and still can't get enough of the place.

When we got there, it was closed. So we drove back.


We had our senior class trip there. My little brother used to think it was Peter Point!

I know I should be too old for it, but I've always loved the place.

Anyway, thanks for a good chat. We should probably stop highjacking this thread, though. :blush:

Gotta go watch the Pistons, anyway.

Lived there all my life until marriage,then moved to New England. I didn't know that about the UP and Toledo. Thanks for the information!

I love New England. What state did you move to?

Of course, L.P. will always be "home" to me. I grew up on Garfield when it was a nice neighborhood.

In races where Obama had a clear lead and both contested the State the margin tended to narrow, in races where she had the clear lead and both contested the margin tended to narrow as well. The "victory" she won in both likely would have been narrowed like most of the others have if both had been on the ballot and campaigned in the States so though the numbers would be higher than today the basic premise wouldn't have changed much.

Even with the flawed votes and including those States as is he's still ahead after these last races. Contested that wouldn't have changed except in that he probably would have reduced her advantage in them so ended up roughly where is is now and without them.

What we do know is that by MI and FL moving their primary dates up in violation of the rules that their primaries really had no impact at all. I wonder if states will learn a lesson from this in the future?

and of course, a difference in the math.

If he'd been allowed to campaign in those states I'm sure he would have done well.

Sadly, we'll never know. But without campaigning in those early days he didn't have a chance.