Obama Supporters, Relax.... Hillary will NOT be the VP

Barack Obama is a smart man. A VERY smart man.

Reason 1:

He's not going to co-opt his entire campaign message of "changing Washington" by putting on his ticket one of the two names in America that DEFINES "Washington" to Americans.

Everything he has run on, everything that got him an incredible 1.5 million donors, is thrown out the window if Hillary is on the ticket.

His whole campaign theme is shot in that case. "Change You Can Believe In" doesn't work when a Clinton is on the ticket.


Reason 2:

Hillary gives him NOTHING electorally in the GE that he doesn't already have. NY isn't going to McCain no matter what.

What Hillary does do, is get (currently) disinterested Republicans to break out their checkbooks for John McCain and come out to the polls in large numbers. The only person in America that can get the GOP rank and file revved up this election season is Hillary Clinton. She's their biggest fundraiser.

As the great NanceGreggs said:

"Why attach yourself to an anchor, when so many kites are available?"



Reason 3:

If Obama is serious about winning... and even more importantly, being able to govern.... he will not ask for or accept Hillary Clinton being on the ticket.

The Clintons sitting one heartbeat away from the Presidency... working behind the scenes to undermine his presidency so they could swoop in... would be a disaster. I'm not talking about any conspiracy stuff about his life being in danger... I'm talking about them working to make his presidency a failure - setting him up so he'd have to resign or be impeached - so they could step in.

And even if you don't believe she'd be that ruthless... the very LARGE shadow that Bill will cast over Obama's administration will make it very hard for him to be an effective President.




This country needs a clean break from the Clinton/Bush Washington polarization we've been experiencing for two decades.

Obama knows this.

That clean break can't happen if she's on the ticket and Bill's in the wings.



The Democratic Party needs fresh blood, not tired old insider politics.



Unless there's a gun to his head... and not even then.... Obama won't ask her. If you think he will, you haven't been paying attention for the past 16 months.

"gives him NOTHING electorally in the GE that he doesn't already have"?

New York? You're joking, right? It's not NY or CA you need to worry about. It's Florida, Ohio, PA - even Wisconsin is tightening up. It's going to be a unity tiocket, one way or the other.



Obama and Hilary are appealing to two distinct demographics in this election. The two wings of the Democratic Party, if you want to look at it that way. You have been paying attention to the polling, haven't you?


It's a damn good thing that Obama has got more sense than some of his supporters.

I hope he does, anyway, or else we're going to lose this November.

otherwise lackluster with McCain. Just look at his anemic fund raising totals. Those triple overnight if you put Hillary on the ticket.

I'm not saying it will automatically lose, I just don't think the positives overly outweigh the negatives, especially given Obama's central campaign theme of change.

college matchups vs McCain. Maybe that's because voters don't necessarily equate a high negative rating with supporting a candidate.

The Republican base is going to be energized. They always are - they came out of the woodwork to vote against Kerry - you don't think they'll do the same for Obama?

Remember, the last Democrat to win a majority of the vote win the GE was Carter in 1976 - over 30 years ago - and that was only by a tenth of a percentage point.

This election is going to be close and hard fought.

Most of Hillary's voters' second-choice is Obama (when compared to McCain)
Most of Obama's voters' second-choice is Hillary (when compared to McCain)

While they have two distinct bases... BOTH of their bases will turn out for him, for the most part... no matter who his VP is.


Obama will win PA easily... Rendell's machine, when working for Obama, will have the same result against McCain that Hillary had against Obama. I know... I live here. The Rendell machine is unbeatable here.


Ohio will be a tough win for any Democrat.... but Obama can win it.


Both Hillary AND Obama would lose Florida to McCain. He's white, male, military, and 72 years old.... and he's going to name Charlie Crist as his VP. Florida is a LOST cause for us.


A large percentage of Hillary's "base" in the midwest industrial states are McCain voters.... her being on the ticket as VP won't turn ANY of them to us.


Besides all of that... He would be unable to govern with Bill Clinton in the wings. He will not let them into the henhouse.


You are tone-deaf to the electorate.

So why in the world is there such a huge problem for you voting for him now??

He doesn't need her to appeal to moderate Dems because the part of his message that Hillary supporters hate most is the moderate part.

She really did do every slimy thing that she's been accused of, it wasn't campaign propaganda. She doesn't deserve your support. Cut her loose.

Perfectly correct.

Thanks -- I needed that!

She'll be the POTUS.

Get back to me in November.

hint: she has to get the nomination first. And that just isn't happening.

severe, long lasting damage to the Party. And then she won't win.

She DOES have VERY strong support among: women, older voters, white working class voters, and white voters in general especially in key states like OH and PA. She is VERY formidable, and with Bill and the rest of her team they'd be valuable in uniting the party and helping with these core Dem constituencies. I know, Team-Hillary has been quite shitty in this tough primary fight and there are some VERY sore feelings. But we MUST unite to beat McCain, Hillary is one tough lade, and she'd be a good VP choice. Think about it. We MUST unite !!

Other good VP choices: Strickland of OH, Schweitzer of MT, Kaine and Webb of VA, Edwards, Richardson, Clark, and Bayh.

1. "She DOES have VERY strong support among: women, older voters, white working class voters, and white voters in general"

Separate these out:

A. Women. Do you think that most of Hillary's female support sees McCain or Obama as their "second choice" among the three? Democratic women will not vote for McCain. Not after they see what kind of judges he would appoint.

B. older voters. Do you think that Hillary would help Obama outpoll McCain among OLDER VOTERS? Get real. Older voters that are afraid of change aren't going to vote for Obama over McCain just because Hillary is on the ticket. Older voters who liked Hillary will vote for McCain - regardless of whether Hillary is on the ticket or not.

C. white working class voters. This is a mirage. These voters, for the most part, favor McCain over ANY Democrat. Hillary being VP doesn't change that.

D. white voters in general. Obama's VP will likely be a white person (Webb, Clark, etc). These choices will help him with whites just as much, if not more, than Hillary will. Obama's VP is likely to be a white man with a military background. That man will help Obama with whites more than Hillary EVER could.

2. "She is VERY formidable, and with Bill and the rest of her team they'd be valuable in uniting the party and helping with these core Dem constituencies."

Hillary and Bill are now focused on 2012. They have no interest in "uniting the party" for Obama in 2008. They want Obama to lose to McCain so they'll have another shot in 2012. If Obama wins, Hillary's shut out until 2016. She doesn't want to wait that long.

3. "Think about it. We MUST unite !!"

And we will. Obama's VP choice will help us do so. His VP choice won't be Hillary.

1. Women: Yes most Dem women will vote Obama. Hillary could bring even MORE out as well as Indy and moderate R women. Women = majority of Dem party and huge Indy and moderate R blocs.

2. Older voters: Remember, I'm talking mostly Dem older voters. They will want someone 55+. Hillary is good. Webb also good.

3. White working class: The idea is to get as many of the "Reagan Dems" as possible. Hillary helps. Webb, Kaine, Bayh, Clark, Edwards, Schweitzer also help. These Dems are part of a winning coalition and absolutely can not be tossed aside. We must work to effectively persuade them to vote their economic interests this time around.

4. White voters in general: Can't win without them. Need a white VP. Again, if not Hillary than along the lines of those I've mentioned.

5. Unity: Bill and Hill DO want a united Dem Party. They are consummate establishment Dems. They don't want to go down as the SourGrapsClintonSpoilers which would destroy their legacies. Also, Bill wants a voice in the Obama admin. and Hillary may well be interested in a cabinet spot or in Congressional leadership if she remains in the Senate. She may also be eyeing NY Gov. No ! Flat wrong. They are VERY interested in unity.

6. As I say, Hillary MUST be strongly CONSIDERED. Remember, I said "considered". Webb, Kaine, Schweitzer, Edwards, Richardson, Bayh, Clark,...all must be strongly CONSIDERED as well.

on a tie breaking vote, forcing a veto.

you must be very proud...

Hillary is a divisive figure. The Democratic party cannot win, until she is cut out of the picture.

Sometimes, the truth as you see it can be skewed by the love for your candidate... This is normal and is practiced a great deal from both campaigns...

Although she is not my candidate, unless she wins the nomination which I don't think she can, she has said she will campaign for the nominee and that to me is not a divisive Democrat...


Best of luck to both of our Democrats, I will not participate in this roast....

Why attach yourself to an anchor when so many kites are available. Committed to memory, absolutely brilliant!! :applause:

He has proven to be a great strategic thinker. In this campaign, conventional wisdom is proving to be wrong every time and he is proving to be thinking way ahead of the pack almost every time.

He reasoned through the things you listed months ago and knows an Obama/Clinton ticket makes no sense for him.

Another factor is the age thing. Not that Hillary is so old (She is quite attractive and energetic for a person of her age), but an unspoken part of Obama's success is the vitality he brings, and that will be in sharp contrast to McCain. He will want to position his attack on McCain as a changing of the generations. "This generation -- both parties -- have allowed America to get on the wrong track. It is time for the next generation to step in." So I would expect him to have a VP in the 45-55 age range.

Another thing, he is a risk taker. He is not burdened by the weight of all that "head trash" conventional wisdom, most of which is nothing but self-fulfilling prophesies. This is a guy who sees and embraces possibilities that others are not willing to see. What does that suggest? I think he simply doesn't buy the DLC-think that says you have to win every single blue state because you will lose every single red state. He already knows he can raise enough money to be fund a solid 50-state attack, and that's exactly what I think he will do. Well, maybe a serious 40-state attack. And we may see that reflected in his choice of VP. Instead of selecting a VP to help win OH or FL, he may go with one who could help knock down a couple western or southern states.

remarks like "John and I bring a lifetime of experience, Obama gave a speech in 2002" (something to that effect)... words have consequences.

And this meme that Hillary can bring, this group of workers, that demographic of people, and lets not forget he is unelectable.

1. If he is unelectable why do they want her on a loosing ticket by "her" estimation?

2. Is she so vain to think she and only she can bring in these other groups of people to help Obama? There are many to choose from.

In Hillary's defense she hasn't mentioned a Veep slot. Right now it's pundit conjecture or wishful thinking, and until it's anything different, thats all it will remain.

to help run his campaign. He should do as well picking people to help run the country.

that would be too damn much to ask of her.

Plus, the only people spewing this dream team stuff are the Clinton supporters like Stephananapolis.