This long primary race is a blessing. A true gift to the country. Thank you, Hillary. Seriously.

Screw the hand-wringers and the always-wrong punditry who want it to be damaging so they can be buzzards as usual.

This has been one of the better things to happen in America in a long time. Both candidates deserve our gratitude, but Clinton moreso for staying in even after the numbers ran out of spinning space.

Think about it.

1. When was the last time you can remember so many people, so many usual non-voters, so many new voters, so many Black and Hispanic voters whose absence from the polls tends to directly affect their lives, almost always to their deficit, with much more immediacy than in other blocs of voters.

That right there is a coalition, shades of what Bobby Kennedy and later George McGovern were trying to pull together. Bobby had it, and maybe they laid him low exactly because he had it. McGovern tried, and did really well considering what he was up against in his own party. The party powers (explained by Hunter Thompson as "the Meany, Daley, Humphrey axis") fought him tooth and nail all the way to the convention, where he scrambled their eggs using the new convention rules he had written with his own hand after the '68 debacle (at the behest of M-D-H, ironically enough).

The Bobby/George (sorta Teddy) coalition still exists, and pretty much has to deal with the same shit their predecessors went through 36 years ago: shitass war, bastard president, fucked economy, contempt and violence from cops (less so now, but a groom did just take a pound of lead to his grave from four shooter cops who were declared guiltless...just sayin') and a general sense that rules don't apply to the political leadership, and the whole promise behind the idea of America looked a lot like some campy bullshit from the 50's. Thus began the 70s.

And:

2. I just LOVE that all these back-of-the-list states get a chance to decide the fate of the planet. Seriously. Remember last time in '04, all the bitching about so many states not getting to be involved after Super Tuesday. Well, be careful what you wish for. But it's magnificent. Give a citizen a shoven, tell them their digging will really make a difference and means they are totally involved, and they'll dig deep enough to be stopped by granite bedrock.

Indiana changed history. NC did, too. West Virginia is next up to be the center of the world, then Kentucky and Oregon...and the last to come are Montana, South Dakota...and Puerto freakin' Rico. I don't think that island has ever swung electoral weight. Now it does. All of them bursting with Democratic voter interest, they're in this thing for real, they have two prime super-sharp rumble-ready yet historically distinctive candidates to follow. State after state has reported primary voters making choices in the booth, beause they couldn't decide between this pair of ass-kickers, and when our voters are charged up to vote like they have been since February, when turnout and new voters skyrocket, we always always always win.

If this swings right in November, that enthusiasm might take root and stay a while...another midterm, a re-elected president...etc...

Democracy will be better for this campaign. I am grateful to Senator Clinton for staying in this long, though she is not my choice. Her staying in has given millions of Americans a piece of the best part of this national idea, which many had lost long ago in resigned surrender to the fact of their electoral irrelevance. She gave them back their participation and truest way to be a patriot actively involved to move things towards that better possibility we all know can be attained.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that very ballot-borne blessing to voters, real involvement creating genuine influence, is maybe some part of the unspoken iron that has kept her on that bastard road. If so, she has done an amazing service to the country. If it is merely a consequence shaped by other motives, and not even a hidden idea anywhere in the campaign braintrust, well, it happened anyway, and she's pretty awesome for it, even by accident.

When Black voters turn out in monolitic numbers in every state (which they would most likely do for either candidate), it will checkmate the bloc of GOP base voters. Young voters, new voters, pissed Democrats, independents who want to shake shit up, and a large majority of erstwhile Clinton voters despite the volume of "no way" threats should Obama win through. They'll vote, most of them...and if only half vote, the slack will be picked up by a lot of folks on the Left who don't want McCain, and who see the larger social and historical context involved in a Black man becoming president.

It cannot be avoided, and if it is achieved, we will be just a little bit better as a nation for it. Ditto on many equally important yet different social/historical levels if Clinton wins through. The descendants of less equal Americans whose lineage has ancestors who lived fettered and powerless, literally and figuratively. Society, religious fundamentalism and black-letter law saw them as dumb beasts unfit to occupy the same space as decent people, or as petticoated chattel denied books and education and doomed to the empty existence of an inanimate decoration who could breed, had no legal defense against abuse, and usually kept quiet. Women have enjoyed the right to vote for less than 100 years, Black people less than 50, generally speaking. Think about that, and then consider those two again.

Yeah, this is good shit. This is big.

And when all that enthusiasm gets released come November (having been bottled since the primary vote they cast which shool the pillars of the Earth), when Black voters and young voters and independents combine with that large swath of Dem voters from our base (union members, teachers, smart people who don't resent paying taxes because they like roads and schools and garbage getting piked up and stuff) combine with the activist base who ALWAYS love to vote

...I do believe...

...we're gonna blow the fucking doors off McCain's bullshit bus tour. And pick up Senate seats, and House seats.

No promises, no sure thing, anything can happen and we're up against ghouls in blue suits who have power beyond reason or the protection of law.

But whn voters care, they can stand up next to a mountain and chop it down with the edge of their hand.

Thanks, Hillary. Thanks, Barack. Try to see if you can keep it going through these last states. Montana deserves it after dumping Conrad Burns in '06, and we bomb Puerto Rico with radioactive cannonfire in practice for war, so those voters deserve to swing the bat for real contact.

Behold this slightly improved democracy, new voters, psyched voters, and a hard choice between candidates.

History made no matter what.

No, it isn't good. Hillary has harmed the party and that shouldn't be sugar-coated.

We aren't here to promote an idealistic vision of democracy and let more states vote. We're here to win an election.

So strike that.

Enthused, engaged voters win elections. Two birds with one stone.

I'm here to promote an idealistic vision of democracy and let more states vote if possible. That's a fine purpose to dedicate a life's work to.

Not even ashamed, either.

;)

Please post a link showing that he's saving the money for McCain rather than being forced to spend it all in the primaries. That isn't what I've read.

You remind me of first time campaign or voter registration volunteers who have to be told that the goal isn't to register everyone to vote or to encourage everyone to vote. The idea is to register and turn out voters who are likely to vote Democratic. That's how we win.

That's the difference between activism to win elections and politics as a self righteous academic exercise.

With a high probability especially in Obama's case. This is a multi trillion dollar economy; it isn't like squeezing blood out of a turnip. McCain is the one that is & will have the tough time w/money, he's having a tough time now.

DOn't kid yourself -- the righty money for McLame wil come.

in that bat of an eye...he ain't got a chance :cry: better make that :spray: :rofl:

How much money would have gone to Congressional candidates if it weren't for someone siphoning off money by refusing to admit reality?

Then check back.

Less embarrassing that way.

I had know idea Sen Clinton would go GOP,but when you sit back and think it thru there's quite a few things we've learned about the democratic party also.

great insight

his answers to the various smears, his interviews... all getting better. By the time he's up against McSame, he'll be very well prepared. How he handles the Swiftboaters should be very interesting. I'm looking forward to it

Obama's coattails have been cut shorter, and Hillary has the scissors in her hands!!

Now, she is begging poor people in West Virginia to give her campaign money WITH THEIR CREDIT CARDS!!!

The first thing on Hillary's web site - "Please donate now using your credit card."

How fuckin' dispicable can one get?

Ler her get her money from Ferraro and Carville!

Even if they run out of money, if the candidate has an (R) after their name, they are going down and a (D) is worth money in the bank. This hand wringing is silly.

The long primary has forced both candidates to erect a network of supporters in states that don't get to see a Democratic Nominee in the General Election, much less a primary. This network expands the debate into areas where Democrats traditionally don't campaign. The major upside to this is that the debate is being dominated by the Democratic Party. The Republicans by and large have ignored the Clinton/Obama race in terms of promoting their own candidates in all but a few obscure local races, and have still lost.

If the national party leaves the convention on solid footing, and is able to coordinate well with state parties, 2008 could very well be a map changer because of this.

Its because they aren't competitive and its a waste of very scarce campaign resources to be there. Building the party in those states is the job of the party organizations, not the Presidential candidate.

Its hard to see the debate being dominated by Democrats as an advantage when that "debate" is focused on Rev. Wright.

Political leanings of a state can change slowly, almost imperceptively, over time. In order for this to happen, the opposition party has to at least make the argument to those state residents that they are better equiped at governing than the party traditionally voted into office. This has been going on, slowly, throughout the midwest over the past 5 years. When you have one party in ascension and the other in decline, this process quickens. Much of the House and Senate gains in 2006 were a direct result of this process.

Not saying it's going to be a blowout. As it stands, the Democrats are looking at a three Senate Seat gain and a maybe a dozen House Seats. That's for certain, and in states five or ten years ago would have been considered rock-solid Republican (Virginia, Colorado, and New Hampsire). And even more comprehensive campaign will yield better and better results in 2010 and 2012.

For the Presidency, this has more to do with turnout than anything else. Republicans are not exactly chomping at the bit to support McCain, for a variety of reasons. On the other side, you have two Democratic candidates that are pulling in record turnout which, if it continues into the GE, will make the electoral map look more a lot different than in 2000 and 2004.

Your making an argument that we shouldn't ignore these non-swing states. I agree with you. Its the job of party organizations to lay the groundwork for long term gains. It isn't the job of a Presidential campaign unless they know they don't have a chance to win anyway and can waste time doing party building activities. Presidential campaigns have to be focused on that one election alone or they will lose. Likewise, get out the vote activities should be done by strong party organizations already in place.

And the DNC and local candidates as well.

Still, this has been sucking up money that I could have spent or saved for later. Much like the postal rate increase for small publications - I can afford to send more to them, but it's taking from other important things (which I'm sure is in part what BushCo had in mind).

We will find chitin a tough substance to crack. Thanks, McHillary.

And no surprises. Nothing will remain on the cupboard for the GOP to use in attacks. Everyone will have heard all of it so many times already, and already decided to do whatever afterwards, that it'll have no real impact.

Plus, John is in dutch with the FEC. When we sort our business out, we'll roll him like dough. Hopefully.

9/11!

No, you may be right. The cupboard is bare. Gumdrop (my name for McCain - please pass the meme) will have to resort to making people terrified of gays and those horrible criminals we call black people. Good fuckin' luck, gumdrop.

he has holes big enough to run a Mack Truck through. And he won't even see it coming because he's senile, or hadn't you noticed. The MSM whores are covering it up now but it's all going to come out in the end. We could be running a cucumber and come November, that would be Mr. or Madame cucumber to you. Let the people experience Democracy. It's the safest time ever, barring massive and I do mean massive, Diebold election fraud (in which case were still fucked so I say, we should still let the masses experience some Democracy!). Let them have their fucking Democracy. I'll donate a few more hundred dollars to Obama for the honor of allowing the rest of the states to experience this.

Get over your bad self. This is magnificent. Enjoy the ride. It's great fun.

That your remarks in PA's thread should be in their own thread...

GMTA and all that!

Beautifully said...

K&R

:patriot:

Do you ever tire of being right? Jeez, quit showing off! ;-)

"May you live in interesting times"


hmm I cant seem to remember where I know that from.

Every corner of our nation got exposed to two dynamic Democrats selling a Democratic message to voters in person. Whatever damage either of our final candidates suffered in the process of their competition was more than offset by the experience they each gained at delivering their chosen messages and fighting back against adversity. And I was always convinced that the winner would come out of this stronger because of that, with a battle hardened organization ready to take on the G.O.P.

Most of the most potent lines of attack that the Republican Party can hope to trot out against either Clinton or Obama have already been aired and in the process lost much of their shock value and all of the freshness that a new bomb reverberates with when launched during a critical moment during a heated campaign. Some worry that Republicans learned how to better attack our candidates, Obama in particular, but I am confident that Obama in particular learned how to better defend himself from those types of attacks that were certain to come anyway, and that is far more important.

Meanwhile one or another of our candidates found the right keys to strongly connect with virtually every segment of the electorate that could conceivably vote Democratic in November. Those are valuable lessons that will benefit our nominee with every segment of the public. Assuming that Obama goes on clinch the nomination, he now has a very effective potential ally during the campaign in Hillary Clinton, who in fact did find her voice as the campaign wore on, becoming a more impassioned and approachable candidate who connected well with millions of Americans, which is obviously true for Barack Obama as well. She can now go back to states like PA and OH and WV and FL and be a credible spokesperson for the Democratic party on behalf of our nominee, reaching out to people who connected with her on Democratic issues and Democratic values, bearing witness for our Democratic ticket in the fall.

Democrats are energized, Democrats are mobilized, and America is receptive to our message.

I too wish to thank both Senators Clinton and Obama for engaging all of America, in the name of Democrats for a truly empowering Primary Season.

We may still have a few more adventures between now and August 25th.

God knows we need it these days.

Assuming there's not a convention battle. In the short run, McCain's doing sickeningly well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5879965

Mondale left the Democratic Convention with a nice lead, so did Dukakis. And George Bush Sr. looked absolutely unbeatable a year out. We have time to pull together and take McCain to the cleaners.

but they are slowly turning and when they do, it will be a short, but satisfying blitz.

Kick/Recommended

Needle was in my eye.

;)

Thanks.

The view from a higher altitude than directly down on the ground.

Well put.

and we've got a candidate with an outstanding ground game, so it really should be a matter of rounding them up and heading them to the polls. But I think it could have been accomplished without some of the outlandish lies and campaign games.

Especially the candidates' surrogates could have acted much better but such is the heat of passion.

as an Oregonian...this is rare dream come true...my vote will actally mean something this time!!!

actually Hillary is pretty well done but if she plays her cards right, she can redeem herself. I'm hopeful. In the meantime, have a bucket of fun.

at the end of this Primary, when there is a nominee, we all get to see Barack and Hillary share a good long hug onstage and hold hands, both of them smiling and strong in their support of one another.


maybe that's unrealistic, but i do really hope so...

Tens of millions of Democratic voters in many swing states have suddenly
gotten a message they have never gotten up to now: "I can make a difference."

There is cause for hope that they will not have totally forgotten that by November.
The race for the Democratic nomination this year was between a woman and a man who
is half-African. Consider the chances of THAT even ten years ago. There has been a
LOT of excitement generated here, as well there should be. One of them is likely to
be the next president.

In Denver, Hillary and Obama will both be making inspiring speeches praising the
other. McCain is stuck with making a speech to his dwindling supply of "my friends"
with the uncomfortable choice of praising either himself or Bush. He'll put plenty of
Reagan in there, but he won't overdo it, lest someone remember Reagan's military
record from World War II or his economic record while napping in the White House.
Comparing McCain's prisoner-of-war status to that of the detainees in Guantánamo
won't be an easy task to spin, either.

The DNC DOES need funds, it's true. Andy says they're running on fumes at times, and
Howard needs all the help he can get. But look at the messages they are cranking out
with the limited resources they have: brilliantly put-together, short, to-the-point
spots that hit home like a smart bomb that has found its mark. The DNC got the bulk
of my contribution money so far this year.

Something to remember is what Will mentioned at the end: this time, people CARE--a LOT
more of them than have ever cared before. May even enough to vote despite all the obvious
obstacles the Republicans will try to put in place to prevent it from happening.

McCain is by no means toast, not by a long shot. But he is starting to get brown
around the edges........

but they will very soon and this will have constituted the short, but happy presidential candidacy of John McCain. I hope he enjoyed it, because it will be gone the moment the guns turn toward him. Buh-bye McSame.

That's nothing. But Bush Lite had nothing to offer either. The Republicans knew it,
and so spend nine figure sums tearing down Al Gore and John Kerry, when either one
was plainly the far more competent candidate.

They won't spend a lot of time trying to get us not to pay attention to the man behind
the curtain. They WILL spend a lot of time trying to make the country believe that OUR
candidate is some kind of evil, unpatriotic "libbrul" entity. They will use swiftboaters,
they will use Fox, they will use National Hate Radio, and they will use a billion dollars
drawn from "friendly" sources if they have to. THIS is what we're up against. No one in
either party is under the illusion that McCain has anything to offer the country. It's
all in the packaging and marketing, and they're unfortunately right, because 40+% of American
voters will vote Republican even if their ticket consists of a maggot and a common garden slug,
and at least 10% more have shown in the past that can be persuaded to vote that way, too.
That's who his "my friends" are.

We're not running against McCain. We're running against the best-funded and least scrupulous
advertising campaign in the world. We are in bad shape if our campaign doesn't realize that
at the outset, and take appropriate counter-measures. Howard is already working on combating
electoral fraud, but he can't do it alone, and he can't stop legal advertising if it is done
within existing laws. The best strategy to combat an assault is to know in advance what is
coming your way, and take counter-measures before it begins. We already know 95% of what is
coming our way. We ignored it in 2000 and 2004. That was enough. Not this time.

I don't think our protracted primary is all that awful from the other aspect as well. Their gun turrets haven't been very effective yet either because they don't know if they're going after the woman or the black guy. They haven't been very focused yet and the less time they have to be focused, the better. I don't think for a second that Senator Clinton is staying in for that reason but it's happy happenstance, nonetheless.

They are shooting blindly because they don't know which group to try and offend yet.

They must be tearing out their hair in rage, too. Well, except for Rove, who doesn't
have a whole lot left to tear out........

I worked my ass off for Bobby in Oregon and California in 68, and I agree ... there's something very special and
powerful blowing in the winds this time around.

Your message is an important one, both for Obama supporters (lest they gloat or become impatient) and for Hillary
supporters (lest they have misgivings about supporting Obama once he's the nominee).

Thank you for so eloquently celebrating the perfection of the reality fate has handed us.

:woohoo: :thumbsup:

doesn't follow the same road . . .

The republicans have foolishly engaged in a strategy designed to prolong our primaries, instead it has enabled us to build massive organizations on the ground in every state.

The Republican party is really in chaos. McSame is not a leader. He did however raise $7 million at a fundraiser dinner last night from bundlers. He is tied to special interest groups, and G. W. Bush.

with whom he shares the burden of Alzheimers. And while I feel sorry for him on one level, it will be necessary to expose that because we don't need another addled sockpuppet in the White House. Sorry, McSame.

or are they just spending their donations.

That is exactly how this should be framed! Fabulous. Fucking Fabulous. And it really doesn't matter if she meant for it to happen for these reasons, kudos go to her and hers.

nice to hear this from you. good to be on the same team.

Does anyone know how many times in the past 50 years a candidate has been selected at the convention, and gone on to gain the presedency?

Obama, I mean.

So...we are into some new territory.

That was the last truly brokered convention. FDR won the nomination and went on to win 4 GE's. Not bad.

But are we burning out? Will all this enthusiasm repeat in November? Will all the Dem registration records come to naught? Will the MSM still be able to manufacture a contest?

I dunno. I just know that we have to engage newfound Democrats, and show them how to recruit.

Well the media whores will get down on their knees and try but I think we will make short work of them. I'm looking forward to the massacre. It's been a long time coming.

axlerod has stated they are going to focus on john from now on because they know hillary can not win. what i see is that obama can build an organization in the remaining states with the money he has left and carry that ever is left to the general election. it gives him 3-4 weeks to hammer john with primary money that he could`t use if the primary was over today. by hillary not dropping out she`s given barack another three weeks and she has to borrow money from herself to keep her run going. her problem is there is no money to carry over if by some miracle she wins the primary. i thought she should have dropped out but it`s a 50 state strategy so let`s finish it...

:kick:

That's a fact.

Even if she has to go deep in debt... and work her butt off.... she is a die hard, true yellar dawg.

K&R and it's about time somebody here sees what a favor she is doing us!

And for that, we should be grateful!!!

Shit.

x(

TIME TO MOVE ON and fine tune it between now and 2012

Obama beat McCain in all National Polls by up to 10% margins until Clinton lost her marbles

He has the ability to turn polls around and win

BUT, he needs time to do it. NOW IS THE TIME. Not a month from now... not three months from now.

NOW we need to focus 100% on voter registration. Obama's solid presence at the top of the ticket is a DRAW for new voters.

We need him there

NOW

Iowa goes for Clinton, the race was over from day one.

Obama winning Iowa changed everything.

:kick:

the increased excitement, registration, and turnout are fantastic and all in our favor, but the one thing no one is talking about that is the big unknown factor is this:

How will warrantless wiretapping affect this campaign?

I hope everyone realizes that EVERY electronic (phone and data) communication by Obama's campaign is almost certainly being monitored by the Govt., and will be used against him in any way possible. Remember the scandal over Reagan's team getting ahold of Carter's debate prep binder in 1980? Imagine McCain's team having access to ALL Obama's campaign communications, strategies, etc.

In addition, who knows what kind of voter suppression will occur between now and November?

And of course, the media's complicity in ignoring McCain's faults...

Only a tsunami of voter enthusiasm and turnout (I'm thinking 20% margin here) will be enough to counter their dirty tricks.

stretch so they can get back to their Game Boy/Girl existence' :headbang:

I agree, and could not say it so well as this. Exellent writing that is of service to the Party and not designed to increase invective. Well done, here here, and yippee.

an advocate of one of the candidates, or a hater of the other. You give me hope.

why letting the primaries take place is such a 'bad' thing. I always thought that was the way democracy in this country was supposed to work! It's a tight race between Hillary and Barack and I'm lovin' it!

It is truly magnificent, this process.

We have this:

They have this:


I still like our chances.

I believe you may be correct. As usual.

Thanks. It occurs to me that this notion also gives the more vociferous Hillary supporters a face saving talking point, when the time comes.

Woof

First time I've voted in NC where my vote actually meant something! I wouldn't have minded too much if Obama wrapped it up a little sooner, but it does give me a good feeling to know that my vote actually helped him seal the deal!

Been thinking this exact same thing for a couple of months now. Thanks for articulating it.

I never thought to see an election like this in my lifetime. My gratitude to Clinton & Obama and all the other Dem candidates this year runs deep for all that they have endured and given - and for the promise they have inspired in so many.

Thanks, Will... once again I find myself moved by your words.

If Obama gets it, he'll have worked extremely hard for it, and he'll be the better candidate for it. All to the good.

a lot more Americans now see the Clintons for who they really are.

Or would it make you :puke: to even think that?

Weren't you bitching about Hillary staying in a few weeks ago? I could be wrong, you could have just been bitching about her in general.

:hide:

I've been saying this all along, ever since the first whining about how she should should quit. The only thing that has hurt/divided our party is the fucking whining. Obama never whined like that, thank GAWD.

I never got over Edwards' inability to get a foothold with the media, and his dropping out. I never joined either remaining camp after that. I'm not the most patient person in the world, so if I can take it, anyone who can't is a serious dumbass who isn't worth their own salt or oxygen.

If Obama's support is so strong, Hillary can stay in until someone is inaugurated and it won't amount to a hill of beans. If he is so GAWD-like, he should be able to ignore any alleged lies and carry on with a fight against McCain and he won't be hurt at all.

I'd like to see both candidates focus on John Four More Years McSame and leave each other the fuck alone. They are both wasting our time and should be ashamed of themselves. Don't give me any shit about how it hurt Kerry not to speak up, Obama already spoke up and repeating himself is a fucking waste of time.

Time to unite behind the party and get this show on the road!

I can't wait until the flakes are shook out of DU... weary doesn't look good on any of us.

:hi:

This should shame all the Obots who have been screaming at Hillary for staying in it into crawling back under their rocks. Any time I've said here that this long primary process benefits us I've been jumped on by Obots who in their usual insulting way have been claiming the contrary. You know who you are, and now's the time for you to apologize.

was not without reason. She had stooped so low as to embrace Rovian smear tactics, and those she didn't initiate (McCain has more experience than Obama) she prodded (Rev. Wright connection). Its because she was harming the Democrats chances in November, that some of us just wished she'd go away.

Yes it is a silver lining (although that implies some missed cloud-free opportunity for Obama).
If she changes her ways and campaigns on her POSITIVES, ie. what she will do to help America as President, and NOT how nominating Obama would be detrimental to the country, she can stay until the convention for all I care. That's the only continuing-race scenario that would benefit Democrats.

But unfortunately I do not have faith that Ms. Clinton will gracefully fade. I am still waiting on pins and needles for Billary's 'Nuclear Option', where she will release some massive dirty race-baiting fear-mongering smear against her opponent in one last ditch attempt at power. And if she does, and the content is so harmful that it takes out Obama, it will kill her chances as well. Whatever crossover repukes that come over because they like her pro-white 'toughness' she will loose tenfold any support coming from the Democratic base.

Said about as well as could be.

For the eloquence and leadership of this post.
I was an Edwards supporter, who moved to Obama.
But I don't hate Senator Clinton. She's not perfect, but she has worked very hard.
Both of the candidates have served to strengthen each other. They have both improved.

I like them. I salute them. They are confident and intelligent. They will fight if the election is stolen. I consider that a huge improvement over the last two candidates we put up for president.

And like the OP, I feel no need to apologize.

foment racial divides within our Nation. Thanks ARROGANT and RICH pseudo-Democratic Leaders.

Our party is about to be IMPLODED by The Clinton Entitlement Campaign. :thumbsdown:

he erases with his elbow".

That fits here, I think.

It's been GREAT watching so many people feel that they have a real say in how our candidate is! And to see election boards all over the country FREAKING OUT, lol, because of all our new registrations. :woohoo:

What has not been great is watching the destructive, divisive tactics out of the Clinton campaign. That's been bad for the party, and sad, too, because it was such a stupid choice for them to make. She had plenty of positives to run on. I'll never understand it.

I'm happy on one hand, as William points out, that the prolonged race has swelled party with new active voters. Or as you say: "And to see election boards all over the country FREAKING OUT, lol, because of all our new registrations."

On the other hand, I agree with what you wrote: "the destructive, divisive tactics out of the Clinton campaign. That's been bad for the party."

Maybe we could bundle the states into 5 or so groups and have one group go every week. This extended primary has been exhausting for all sides.

I've been ranting similar things around here, and at times felt as if I was all alone.

Seriously, I'm a little surprised that the U.S. is still intact after seven years of the worst, most criminal government in the history of the world. We have one chance to take it back and this is it, and the way we're going to do it is by double-teaming every single state in the Union.

There is much, much more to do after the ticket is unified, but I honestly think that the next phase of the campaign must wait until every state gets to play its part in the decision.

examples of democracy after nearly 8 years of dictatorship are a welcome change.

So much complaining about Hillary not stepping away, all the "reasons" she is ruining our chances in the fall, HOGWASH!

Say whatever you want to say about me, just spell my name right.
The Dems have captured the spotlight for the last 9 month and will continue to do so up to the return of our country from the fascists who stole it from us.

The things you mentioned are good, but they don't excuse the fact that McCain has been able to run around unopposed since he became the republican nominee. And that's not the part that scares me the most. The scary part is the large percentage of Hillary's voters that are saying they will not vote for Obama in November if he is the nominee. If she stayed in this race like Huckabee did I would be happy. But the gutter politics she has engaged in for such a long period of time have hurt the party's chances in November. And I know I won't forget this, as many other democrats won't.

it was Barack that brought about the good things you are talking about by bringing in new voters and realizing the importance of the "after Super Tuesday" states.

My first post but I cant get some thoughts and a comparison out of my head with respect to Hilary and figured it might
trigger recognition in others.

There were three factors that caused me to favor almost everyone but Clinton from the beginning of this primary season.
First, fair or not, she has had super high negatives for years and years. Even if the republicans attach another candidate, the best they could accomplish would be to equal the negatives they already have on Hillary. Second, some of those negatives are deserved in that the Clinton's are politicians in all that entails. A politician who plays the game using triangle politics may win his position but does not inspire you with feelings of honesty. Thus some of her/their strengths are also their weaknesses and vice versa.

However, the real reason I didn't want her running is a big picture item. Regardless of the "who" or their
capabilities, it is bad for our democracy to start following nepotistic patterns. We already are over affected by
celebrity and advertisement. If she runs, it will reinforce a belief that name recognition and established connections are dominant factors in winning elections in America. Sadly for us, these factors are probably dominant. We see it in numerous senate and representative campaigns where sons succeed parent. Clinton winning would only reinforce this pattern. Can anyone doubt that if we follow a father-son with husband-wife that we will continue to have family based presidencies in the future. She should have recognized that if she ran she would be following an idiot son of a previous president with a wife of a previous president. This advantage to relatives probably on balance keeps good new candidates off slates and distorts democracy. If she really cared about what would be good for the country on a big scale, she should have just sacrificed her ambition. It would be better for us long term as a country if there was a taboo or unwritten rule that families do not run for office held by previous family members even if qualified.

Notice, the above reasons really aren't about Clinton herself or the campaign she has run. Now for the comparison which connects with this thread. This thread is about her continuing to run. Half of me thinks this is ok if she does not cause further damage to Obama during the remaining period. However, I feel like a someone with an old relationship who has come over for a visit after a long period. I have something that I need to do so want them to leave and I keep leaving hints which they are not getting. They should be getting these hits because it really is time to go. Everyone else would recognize these hints. However, they are not getting them and seem be forcing me to react. Because of the surface relationship, I know that I am supposed to say, "I have to go. Let yourself out when you are ready" I want to believe that this is safe. I do not like myself for not trusting them not to damage my apartment if I let them continue to stay in my place, but what I really want them to do is leave so I don't have to worry at all about them. That is what I feel about Hilary. I do not trust her to run a nice campaign which will not damage Obama in the coming period. Although, I don't like it about myself that I don't trust her, I don't and wish she would drop out so we can move on to running against McCain.

Rilgin

When the political parties decided to have their members, the people, pick their candidates they slammed the doors shut on the smoke-filled back room politics of the past.

Well, they left the super-delegates in place. But that's another story.

Again, thanks for a well presented essay.

and applaud you for being one of the few voices pointing out the fundamental good of a vigorous debate, campaign, discussion, does for democracy.

And you make a good point about coalition building, or at least calling back together.

I have to admit to a desire to see some short term benefit, a dem win in 2008. The fundamental good and collation building are definite long term benefits, but I'm still worried about the short term. There are practical concerns such as money spent, focus of the non-party aligned voters shifted/diverted in the wrong way and the ability of the coalition of supports to truly act in time and in concert smoothly enough in 2008.

Don't let me forget this!

:hi:

I have my doubts she will quit on June 15th like it's been said. She is going to create a lot of trouble because of Michigan and Florida. It's going to get ridiculous. Just watch!

sfexpat2000 said it best for me above.

I wish I could trust the Clintons to do the right thing, to put the party over their ambitions, but I don't trust them.

but I wonder if you'll still be singing the same tune when so many Hillary supporters refuse to support Obama in the General thus handing the election to McCain.

Well done. That's a great way to frame it.

Sorry that we can only find it from you.

Most of the country isn't an echo chamber like DU. People will transition over to him, and people would have transitioned just as easily over to her. Only the most hardened loyalists will sit it out for him in November. 6 months is plenty of time to heal wounds.

My precinct is more active than I had any hope of believing. It is terrific.

To think that I gave money to MoveOn to fight against the impeachment thing.

Thank you for reframing this whole shebang. Seriously.




Oh YES!!! Let it be so.

Then ease down to the end for the winner. It gives us lots of publicity in the nd and it works.

This is good for the Democratic Party. Two dynamic candidates fighting it out for the top spot to run against a really old squishy white man. What could be better? The GOP is having problems raising funds. The Michigan GOP was in debt by about a quarter million dollars according to a newspaper article recently. We did need to grow the Democratic Party and this lengthy primary has done just that. We will be reaping the rewards for years to come in future elections. Once you get people excited and involved, they will pay more attention to the process in the future. Clinton, Obama and the DNC all know that this has been a very fruitful primary season by creating more voters and money in the coffers. Why is that so difficult for some to understand as they attempted to push Clinton out months ago? Another terrific post, Will. Thank you.

Let's say Obama had wrapped the whole thing up on Super Tuesday. He holds a big convention, gives a barnburner of a speech, Democrats are psyched. A couple of days later the 527 ads begin complete with clips of the Reverend Jeremiah Wright. It's just a few weeks before the election and Democrats whatch hoplessly as their guy struggles between loyalty to his friend of twenty years and his need to explain that his views are different from those of the good Reverend.

As painful as it's been to watch, Obama's been immunized against this particular attack. Now when the ads begin Americans all over the country will stick their fingers in their ears and say "Oh God, not that shit again."

Obama's shown toughness and class. That's a good thing and it's a good thing that states which normally do not get a voice in the process have a chance to vote.

the original idea that a virtual 2 year Primary, should be tarred-feathered-driven out on a rail. I don't know if it is bush's insanity, or the length of the Primary season, but I am glad that so many have have registered and turned out for this event.especially the younger voters.

And while it is good to see back-players like WV and OR having something to do other than sit on the sidelines awaiting others to make the decisions that will affect them, having a say...I still think this Primary Season has been horrendously long, and most people really don't have a clue where any candidate, (including McCain) really stand on some vital issues.

One thing for sure...ths will be no free ride for any R, they've shown they have had nothing for years, and they are, as they should be, running scared...:)