I'm beginning to regret donating to DU.

I will support the nominee, but as a Clinton supporter, I don't feel welcome here. The media (whose pundits are all in Barack's college educated demographic) called it, but the country is pretty evenly divided. This is like the anti-Hillary is 44.org now.

Post-primary season it gets MUCH more fun.

GDP is the only place that gets like this.

I suggest you try out some of the other forums while the cesspool that GDP became clears out.

:hi:

If Obama is the nominee (and it's fairly certain he will be), you will be expected to be supportive of him in your posting, not the opposite. I'm not a Hillary supporter, but I've been a member here for years and candidates come and go; if she were to be the nominee I would not leave.

he was NOT my preferred candidate

Neither was she

But if you are a DEM, you are expected to get behind the NOMINEE... PERIOD, at the end of silly season

And one more thing

no candidate is perfect

I would not enthusiastically support her but I would vote for her over McCain.

Welcome to DU! And thanks for donating! :D

If you want to experience the LOVE, try out GD or some of the other forums. GDP is just nasty right now.

I'm glad you're here! :-)

Clinton and you will be free to say or act anyway here. This has turned into the DUObamaunderground. It is harsh and mean. Never speak up for Hillary and you are home free.

They handled the primary season poorly.

...and let everyone take a breather.

that supporters of candidates should be referred to only in that manner: supporters or followers. The name calling was really disgusting.

Often a thread would commence and people would be civilized, and than someone would just start using offensive names directed at either Hillary (mostly) or her followers. I think that every post with the Hillarybot word in it should be deleted.

... calling half of the country's democrats "ignorant white fucks" would be tolerated? I still can't get past that. It was not only tolerated, but got hundreds of recommends.

DU has become entirely equivalent to the lord of the flies.

'cause that's what "equivalence" would necessitate.

still... being DU has opened my eyes. I honestly believe now that there are some supporters on here who, if they believed they wouldn't go to jail, would gladly murder an innocent person if they thought it would bring about a win for their candidate. That is a scary scary thought. Hopefully, once this primary is over those posters will leave/back off and the rest of us can remain here in peace and happily support the candidate that wins the nomination.

Exactly. So it's not the "equivalent" of Lord of the Flies, but perhaps analogous in some ways.

One way to ease the tensions is to stow the hyperbole.

:shrug:

This forum is really nasty. But IMO, the admins putting all the nasty posts in one place where they could easily be avoided was enough.

Its easy enough to stay out of : p. Just visit DU and leave it at that. Unless you are into this sort of thing.

This has been woefully mishandled.

And some (former) DUers have paid dearly becauuse of knee-jerk, immature reactions of others here.

One is what I now would have voted for.

I rarely start more than one thread a day. More like 4 or five a week.

Otherwise, what was admin supposed to do?

Lock more threads would be a start.

Also, Skinner promised us an "unrecommend" button months ago. What happened to that?

Locking threads, at some point, becomes counterproductive, besides opening Skinner and Co. up to stupid charges of bias. I have no idea about the unrecommend button, although that would seem to open its own host of problems.

Clinton supporters are outnumbered on DU during an emotional primary. As someone who has held certain unpopular electoral opinions, I understand the feeling. But that's not the fault of DU.

...have been voted up to the front page. With no real content or usefulness. Downright hate filled flamebait in many cases.

And now that I have thought about it, preventing GD-P posts from hitting the front page would have been an excellent start.

It's a cesspool that should not be the first thing that people witness when they first come across the DU home page.

I haven't had much use for GD:P myself, but then I don't generally relax by watching the sausage-making process either.

Has a lot of it been stupid, from both sides? Of course. I still don't see how that's the admins' fault.

And for the record, I'm an Obama supporter.

the responsibility of actually making value judgments where value judgments are called for.

I have been on discussion boards that didn't descend into the kind of junior highschool name-calling I've seen here. I've been on boards where ideas were discussed seriously and the participants had some grasp of how an argument worked.

Here the standard seems to be that if the argument isn't going the way you want, you clap your hands over your ears and start singing "la-la-la-I-can't-HEAR-you." Oh, and throw in a little namecalling while you're at it. "Hillbot" is EVER so witty isn't it? "Hitlery" is a good one too. And for heaven's sake, you're not TRULY opposed to Hillary unless you deem her a violent sociopath whose pathology is evident in the way she smiles, the way she blinks, the way she claps...

I just read another post a few minutes ago telling a Clinton supporter to leave, you're not wanted here.

That is fucking BS.

Maybe Bill was right when he said that Obama supporters think they're better than everyone else. That's been my experience.

I got a laugh the other day when a tall women, iPod going, carrying a latte and a huge Trader Joe's bag bumped into me crossing the street - and NEVER NOTICED I WAS THERE. She practically pushed me into traffic! I admit, the first thing that came to mind was: she is probably an Obama supporter!

How could this trainwreck of a primary been "handled" better? I'm sure Admin would love to be enlightened.

Censorship? No negative posts? No smearing? C'mon...this is politics. Folks spending MILLIONS to earn a $400k annual salary. Please.

that were nothing but hateful flamebait should've been locked. Enforce the rule about "constructive criticism". Right wing lies should be locked for what they are. The admins could weigh in on behavior without necessarily creating a rule to be enforced - but a response from Skinner saying "this is bullshit and doesn't belong here" would carry a lot of weight.

I agree with a lot of what you say.

Yeah, I'm *shocked* as well.

Not allowing freeper-like photoshops of Dem Candidates?

Censoring that would do what? Force it out of sight? Give the posters a false impression of what is truly happening in the larger message-board community on the internet?

Better to have it out in the open, where we can acknowledge and deal with it.

it was pretty bad in here during 2004 but this time it's far worse, others will disagree with me but imo gdp is become a pretty unpleasant area.

Obama wanted to stay on message of a vision for America and Hillary just wanted to go negative and play the race card....People want change,Hillary isn't change.

Hillary got what she had coming she now needs to pull the curtain cord the show has been over for awhile.

:cry:

This has nothing to do with presidential candidates, pal.

....would have kept it civil it would not have been so bad around here.....the same kind of feelings were not as prevalent when it was Edwards,Biden,Richardson,Dodd,ect..


Sorry you feel unwelcome.

Winning hearts and minds to Sen Obama's Hope and Change one enlightened supporter at a time. :-)

everyone there is nice most of the time.

With few exceptions, the talking heads fall all over themselves for Ms. Clinton. Your mileage may vary.

Since you'll support the eventual Democratic nominee, you'll see an appeal that transcends demographics - racial, economic & otherwise. Hang in a bit longer and you'll see.

It increases their ratings. If they showed any preference for Hillary it was because keeping her in the race made for good TV and if she had become the nominee, they could revist their glory days of sniffing the sheets. That's all those ghouls care about.

:popcorn:

Who knows how long that's been going on.

Nobody agreed with them.

and whoever brought the subject up should have been banned. We should have just ignored all the excitement of these races and we all should have went to the Lobby or GD and discussed more important subjects...huh?

including Gore, Kucinich, Richardson - everyone. There are also topical forums and general discussion. It took me awhile to find them too - yesterday I found the Texas one (they have them for all states). You'll find like-minded people and it is much less crazy.

There are alot of other features too. Journals (blogs), the top ten conservative idiots list weekly, etc... Just click around a bit and you'll see that there is tons here. This particular forum is just temporary. It will go away soon.

When a politician starts using Republican tactics, most folks on DU will object.

If you think a Dem will win, but you don't want Hillary: Vote Obama?

I wasn't here, but I know a few folks that didn't mind: Axelrod and Obama. Regardless, this is just about getting hated on. Why do Obama supporters want the proverbial "ethnic cleansing" of DU?

Most of politics is losing.

you don't like what is going on in here, juvenile as it may be at (or most of the) times, hit another forum...

it is what it is....a place to vent, inform, stress-out, name-call, lie, defame, slander, ponder, intellectualize (one would like to think), and just plain get it on with your brothers and sisters...

the big fight with the bullies is just around the corner...

it will be okay.

Those people are seriously fucked.

negative from others.

You'll feel a whole lot better! I promise!!

:hi:

Until Supers say, he isn't anything.

after MY candidate left the trail and didn't take any sides... the media (and the GOP) is kicking themselves over this....

They wanted her.... and a college graduate student will have fun from this starting in six years or so

the candidate of your choice is not acting like, talking like, or campaigning like a Democrat. In other words she is really no Different than a Republican. If you couldn't pick up on that, then fucking eh, you should regret your decision to support DU...like it or not the majority rules, and the majority here ain't going for Hillary.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

there are still many hillary supporters here. don't blame DU.

if hillary becomes the nominee i will support her. i think many people will even though they say they won't.

There are no longer any logical reasons for her to remain in this race other than to destroy the other candidate who is the likely nominee. She has, without question, elevated herself over the party and that is not acceptable. We understand that Hillary supporters feel strongly about their candidate but at the end of the day (and that's where we are in this delegate race)the party comes first.

It will get better after a while. Just take a break from GD-P and go find some "normal" people. This place has been like hell on earth for Clinton supporters. There really is no excuse for how you have been treated. There used to be some wonderful people here and I have even seen them pitch in to buy wheelchairs for members, support them during hard times and discuss what the Bush Administration has been up to, etc. I have not seen many of those people posting in GD-P though. I have tried to remain neutral because I am not a big fan of either candidate, but will vote for the nominee. As long as some of the horrible Obama and Clinton supporters leave or tone it down, DU will get back to its' former self. I hope. :hug:

I know I have....

Until very recently

I don't care

I am a Pro-Zionist who stays here despite the vitriol towards Zionism that abounds.

If I can partition my feelings and concentrate on the positives here 12 months a year and 24/7 then you can suck it up and deal with the Primary season.

Take a break. I have at times. Sometimes its the best thing you can do for yourself.

Chill

... I have loved DU for years and cherished it as a source of information and intelligent discussion. I rarely visit anymore as it is difficult to sift through the not so informative not so intelligent primary posts. Hang around 'til after the primaries ... I am sure things will be better.

Well then, why don't we just skip the primaries next time and take a poll near the end, decide based on that? It's a delegate race, just because the public can be confused by politicians who have been working hard trying to confuse the issues that doesn't make it right.

That type of thing is why Clinton supporters don't feel welcome. We've always challenged dishonest arguments and too many have come from the Clinton camp. Ayers is a big deal and she said so herself last debate, but her husband releasing two of the same group from prison isn't. She takes the people who actually DID disenfranchise two States onto her campaign then blames Obama for it. She grants that those two wouldn't count, then after the results are in suddenly they have to count. It's disenfranchising someone to follow the rules with those two but it's fine for delegates resulting from ALL of our votes to ignore the will of the voters when the time comes at convention and BTW the Supers can override the will of the voters too. Why? Because the rules allow it. But just remember it's Obama trying to disenfranchise someone, at least in the world according to Clinton.

Bosina, that stuff, the way she went after Wright and Ayers, it's all straight out of a right wing "twist the truth and use it as convenient" play book, and that's what we've spent the last several years fighting.

I'm sorry you don't feel as welcome here as you used to but to me it isn't this place that changed. It was some of the people, the ones who at some point slipped and decided that just this once maybe the ends do justify the means.

They don't. I hope people come back to standing for what they used to stand for soon.

When Bush does something stupid, which is all the time, like this week on Tuesday while we were all busy doing something, I forget what, he took steps to change the Federal elections commission and is trying to remove the Republican on there that said McCain is violating the rules.
Ahhh yes remember Fitzmas, much anticipation but we didn't get the big present we ALL hoped for. Were you here for Fitzmas?
Hang around, just not too much, you won't be sorry.

During the past few weeks, as I saw so many new comers being tombstoned, often after posting something positive about Hillary - and were swamped by angry Obama supporters who, no doubt, furiously hit the "alert" button - I wondered whether this would be my fate and was thinking about all the money that I have contributed to DU in the past four years..

I really feel for some of the Clinton supporters.
Some add to the dirt here but most of them are pretty cool.

hang in there. :) :hi: :hug:

And I don't mean it in a negative way.

Buck the hell up. This isn't pre-school. I thought your candidate was the big fighter.

Let's keep our eyes on the prize and John McSame is not going to get us there.

This really has been the nastiest fighting I've seen on DU in several years here, the least respect for people whose candidate gets about as many votes.

Stay around, these are exciting and historic times.

Be a part of it.

:hi:

Obama is the nom. That doesn't diminish Clinton but it is just the facts.

then you're welcome to leave the reality-based community.

it's been a place for sanity and insanity.

:toast: :hi: :grouphug: :yourock: :applause: :yoiks:

There is more to life than GD-P. And when you're in GD-P, it's good to remember that it's not your mission in life to defend all attacks on your candidate, nor to argue against every bit of stupidity you see. There will always be flame wars and idiots and heated, pointless threads. Participation is strictly voluntary. Mosey into the other forums and rediscover DU.

and made those weird desperate race-based demographic pseudo-analytical comments.

Please...

No one deep-sixed Clinton's campaign but Clinton.

Stick it out, it'll get better.

We should strive constantly to be unlike that site.

Just you watch!

Not a word about that thug Hagee, and no MSM comment on "hard working white people." Why do you suppose that is?

when the entire place pisses me off, I believe there is a problem with me.

And DU is the hotbed of Democrats, so things get a little heated. It'll cool down again when we can focus on McCain and increasing margins in the House and Senate.

David

wear on, it gets worse, people have their favorites, and when some falter, people get uptight. I was a Richardson supporter...as far as experience goes, IMO, there was none better, but he didn't take off, such is the way things go,

Of the two left, to be honest, I am inspired by neither. And as far as the length of this thing...whomever came up w/that idea should be locked in a room and forced to watch the ABC "debate" on an eternal loop, interrupted only by tapes of McCain trying to make sense of anything.

Once we have a nominee, (or this infighting finally ceases), things will take a turn for the better.
Having been through this a few times, I know that some will leave in disgust, some will complain vociferously for a time, some will be sad, others ecstatic...point is, in the end, 99% of DUers will come together and vote for the nominee. (It appears that a good portion of the nation will vote D as well!).

Patience and perseverance are beneficial, and the knowledge that we can finally put an end to the nightmare bush and the neo-cons have put through make it worthwhile.

We've always been a diverse party and not everyone can be pleased. What I want to see is our nation get back on track, a president and congress that will do something for the people of this nation and a population that can and will benefit rather than be oppressed from a government that is ruled by people who actually believe the Dark Ages are something worth returning to. Either candidate can help in the repair, and whomever comes out of this will get my full support.

McCain has nothing, and the people of this great nation will see that shortly. All he'll do is wrap himself in the flag, and his minions will toss crap at the fan to see what sticks. One thing is for sure...the GOP can't run on success...:D

We're supposed to be adults, and the childish snipes from the minority of the most vocal and obnoxious members make it difficult to remember this and not respond in kind. But what really struck me about your post is the truth that it's been unwelcoming and inhospitable here for Clinton supporters for a very long time, outnumbered to a degree not reflected in the outside world; that when it got down to two candidates, the real gloves came off in DU.

Having read a few posts speculating about how welcome we'll be after the official nomination is declared, I do wonder if any criticism whatsoever is going to be allowed, even if it is for purposes like things remaining to be clarified and so forth. I would not look forward to additional months of hard-core Obama supporters jumping down my throat if I suggest something I think is a minor point of improved response to McCain, for example.

I'm an educated, middle-class "old" (55) white woman, and I was (Gore-)Edwards-Clinton, in that order, with a brief Kucinich flirtation. I'd like to think it's not because I'm racist that I do not revere Obama or prefer someone I believe is more policy savvy and less charismatic.

I'm sick of the derogatory stereotyping about my choices, especially. My chief "bitterness" is about how DU members have been treating each other here over what amounts to a difference of opinion rather than basic ideology. I don't regret donating. But my attitude for the long term is "wait and see."

and being welcome in the race.

Once they drop out you can start healing. Your pain is because of them.

Only on DU is pain inflicted by heartless animals.

But then again, too few to mention.

Sure some of us are and have been vocal on why HRC shouldn't win the Primaries, BUT we do really have reason to feel that way and we also have the right to feel this way as well as the right to express ourselves. I've seen posts nasty against both sides, we all are somewhat guilty of that to different degrees, but when you look to the candidates for leadership in this, we see more mudslinging and fact twisting and all kinds of gyrations from HRC herself! So, if we Obama supporters are so intolerable, how do you explain HRC and her constant changing of the "goal posts" and re-spinning every state whether it be a loss or win and her mud slinging? Obama has slipped up and couple of times, looked down at times, but as far as I can see, he has never stooped to her level.

Barack should be solely campaigning for the GE right now, but NO, he is still having to split his attention and focus some on Hillary. For a former 1st Lady and POTUS,, they really have embarrassed us with their lack of respecting the rules of the DNC - MICH & FLA., Now wanting to count PR into their popular vote count....what other desperate tricks are they going to try to pull from out of their sleeves? I'm ashamed for them. I feel sorry for their desperation. I just hope that they figure out how NOT to end up being the sore losers that they are seemingly headed to be becoming. And by the way, Most of the media has accepted their loss, most of Washington seemingly has accepted their loss, even some of HRC's most ardent supporters including some of her staff members are accepting her loss, The Republicans seem to be accepting her loss, so really, it isn't just here.

There are some of us here that are quite furious with the fact that HRC doesn't seem to be thinking about the best of the country right now and this is becoming more and more all about her and Bill's personal ambition.

DONT BUY CIALIS DONT BUY CIALIS!!!

Being the "Anti-Hillaryis44.org site" ... is that? http://www.hillaryis404.org?

I think that's a huge compliment, that scam-ridden, bootleg online pharmacy linking, hatemonger site should be shut down.

back in November.. :)

we don't talk about voting for McCain... we don't use right wing tactics like imply that Hillary is a racist... this is not the anti 44.org far from it.

the rest of the site is normal.

I had to take a few years off after 2004 though so I feel you.

It is filled with neophytes who have little idea of how to conduct themselves on a political forum.

:rofl:

I've also been a Senator Clinton supporter. Really, sitting back and looking.. there have been some really nasty things said by Senator Obama supporters on here, there's also been some really nasty things said by Senator Clinton supporters. Sometimes it's easy to see that noise as being the majority, but read between them.. for every one nasty post there's usually 3 to 10 moderate to respectful ones, other than the ones where it's one Senator Clinton supporter or one Senator Obama supporter posting after every single reply with more nastiness, or one from each side going back and forth for 20 lines. Just my personal observation.

I don't hate her...but I don't understand how anyone could want her to be President at this point. She keeps laying her cards out on the table, and people keep pretending she didn't. What's to like about someone who has run a racially divisive campaign, and admits it to USA Today? She's no Democrat.

If they properly moderated the forums, they don't. They decided to herd garbage in here and they're paying for it now. Fix it.