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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:26 PM
Original message
This is personal...
Edited on Thu May-08-08 11:40 PM by nadinbrzezinski
Over the last seven years I've sent a husband to war TWICE

We have seen our income go DOWN and Inflation go to levels where my relaxing coffee at a LOCAL coffee shop is such a luxury I stay home these days.

He almost got stop lossed... (There is a story in that one)

We had a hell of a time getting foreign aid into the US over Katrina... thanks Bush NOT (why our criticism of Myamnar makes me laugh in a kind of tragic way) And yes, I could go into why and how, suffice it to say games got interesting... Hey, I get to sleep at night.

I've got two military age nieices, and if (or rather when) we go to war with Iran... they might finally see reality and enact a draft.

I've got two younger nephews that deserve to grow up in a free country... free clue morans, this is not a free country anymore... and we will have to claw our way back to that and reclaim the bill of rights amongst other things

I'd like to drive on a freeway bridge that I know will not fall down... right now our infrastructure is in such bad shape that it just might

Then there is the VA system... though we don't use it right now, my husband might need it some day... and as a vet he earned that right... not if McCain gets to play Presnit.

Oh and there is this little thing about two, possibly three USSC judges retiring or dying while in office in the next term... you sure you want McCain to appoint them? If you vote for McCain and he wins... I can guarantee you more than just a little damage to whatever freedoms we still have.

Then there is this little fact about forty plus million of my fellow citizens who cannot afford to get the sniffles, let alone a major illness, and some have them pesky pre-existing... nough said.

This is why you too should vote for the NOMINEE in November

He is not perfect... no candidate ever is... but he is FAR BETTER than the alternative.

Oh and for those who are stomping feet and behaving like a three year old... fine... take some time to stomp feet... I know that MOST of you will quietly go into the booth in November and DO THE RIGHT THING. I also know a few of you will not.... and that is fine with me. I also KNOW that you are a very loud but small minority... MOST of your fellow fans are rational people and in the end will do what the rest of us have done as our primary candidates have left the field... and this is not directed at them, just the small, but extremely loud minority amongst you... and you know exactly who you are.

But I will leave you with this thought.... even a less than ideal democratic candidate and boy could I find defects in both Obama and Hillary Clinton, is far better than any Liberal Republican any day of the week and twice on sunday.

Enough of this tanter tantrum... fit for my three year old nephew or my cockatiel (and boy does he ever throw them!)

It is time to grow the fuck up... and if you need to take some time away from DU or politics, by all means. do so.

One more thing... this is a generational realignment and having had THAT MANY minorities on the stage this year tells me that a woman may very well be next... at least one of the two national parties looks more like the rest of america in what it ran this year. That is historic. This is a historic campaign... and historians, yes we silly people, will be studying this campaign in coming generations, for the same reason 1960 is studied, as well as 1980. It is to that level.

So yes, this is personal... and if you choose to vote for McCain when all is said and done... well here is a well deserved FUCK YOU and yes at this point you over extended your welcome.

Oh and if you decide to stay home... fine by me... but I don't want to hear it... ok
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KAZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R Thank you nadinbrzezinski.
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NewHampshireDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here here!
Edited on Thu May-08-08 11:32 PM by NewHampshireDem
My two sons and I thank you.

This is what it's all about:


Someone asked me, when I posted my similar but less eloquent and more obscene rant, why I was so 'angry.' Well, you don't piss off Papa Bear.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I don't have children, unless I count the birds
and at this point I am glad I don't since we might to physically fight to get back what we once had
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NewHampshireDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yeah, but you still have something real to fight for
and I don't understand how people can see so little in their lives that is worth more than their foolish, spiteful pride.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Neither can I... I truly cannot fathom it
and in many ways we will see most of those very loud minority quietly leave this site... I can expect that

I know that many of them would not voice in real life what they voiced here...the web and all that... and I suspect a few (due to the low post count) are trolls...

Part of operation chaos actually and I can see that, valid tactic... even if underhanded but valid

Historians will have fun with this season... in some years to come
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NewHampshireDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Too true
That's why we really need this to be over.

Well, let's do our best to hoist the banner and kick McCain's ass.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
67. Completely and enthusiastically agreed. I'm going to post this thread in another one
here in which one such individual called me childish for suggesting they not pout.

There are FAR more Obama supporters who have eagerly agreed to support Clinton if she's the nominee than there are Clinton supporters vowing to return the favor if Obama's the one. So WHO is it who's throwing the tantrum and behaving like sore losermen (or loserwomen)?

Sometimes you've just gotta face the music and grow up and figure out how to make the best of it. Deciding you'll just thrust out your chin and lower lip, and fold your arms in front of your chest in defiance and stay home, or vote for mcsame in protest just to SHOW the rest of us or make some statement or send some lame message - is NOT the way to make the best of it. Not by ANY stretch of the imagination if you consider the mindset that another republi-CON victory would force down our throats AGAIN. Any woman who'd like to have the last word on what happens to her body - especially in the most private and intimate reaches of that body of hers - is kidding herself if she thinks a vote for mcsame or a well-fuck-you-then vow to stay home and be pig-headed will be something we can just cope with for a few years.

WTF are they thinking??????? Talk about wanting to cut off your nose to spite your face. :eyes: :banghead:
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R.. thank you.
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. I don't feel comfortable with either of our candidates.
But I damn well will be casting a vote for the person with the D next to their name. No shit this is personal, and any fool, such as I consider myself, can see that a conservative Dem is better than any sick ass repuke.

In other words - nice rant, NB. K n R.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. the most 'grown up' thread of the year, If only those who should, would listen and act.
By the way, 4 hours ago BO said he was open to Hil being VP. It was not an invitation or anything. Sounds like he put out a feeler or some such thing.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Had not heard that... interesting
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. its posted on my comcast news page.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Well as they say, ball's in her court
ooh boy, another parallel to 1960

LBJ didn't particularly like Kennedy...

Caro's bio is quite clear on that.

Of course sainted Reagan didn't like Bush Senior either
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XOKCowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. This should be in GD
Edited on Thu May-08-08 11:45 PM by XOKCowboy
It speaks to all Dems and applies to the GE. That way when it makes Greatest Page (which it will) everyone will see it. At least I hope so. Very well said.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. It is already in the greatest, but under the specific
policies of DU right now (due to silly season) it cannot be posted on GD
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XOKCowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Hopefully soon we won't need GD-P
and it'll go back to normal.

Sorry to say it but I've got my Greatest filtered. I might unfilter it soon though.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. Fully understand it, this silly season has been toxic
hell I just came back to post on this side of the site recently

Once it was clear mostly, we had a candidate

To say that I wasn't too shocked by the crap is to put it mildly, I wasn't since the tone was nasty... at the campaign level

But this side of the site became a cesspool, why most long time regulars have staid out of it

:-)
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. "Are you sure you want to recommend this thread?"
YES!!!! :)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. thanks...
There are days I wonder why some of us even need to remind people what is exactly at stake
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Hard to fathom, but all we can do is keep reminding them until November.
:toast:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. As I said in the rant, some will indeed NOT vote for the Nominee
and a few will cross party lines.

We know who they are...

I expect them to quietly leave this site, especially after talking ill of the nominee is finally enforced
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XOKCowboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. For those who won't vote for the nominee, repeat after me..
Alito, Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Scalia, Roberts, Thomas, etc, etc, etc.

Keep repeating those names and then don't vote. Let McCain win. Don't come crying here to DU if that happens. Just go look in the mirror.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Trust me some of them will NOT vote for the nominee
does not matter how many times we say it


On the bright side, and yes there is one... that is a very small, if extremely loud MINORITY

Hell, I expect most of them to be gone from this site soon

Some voluntarily

Some will get nice granite pizzas as parting gifts

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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
20. Kand R great post!!
Thanks nadinbrzezinski

:patriot:
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Zambero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
22. Very well stated!
I'm hoping more than a few Republicans and Independents wake up to these issues as well, before it's too late.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. Very technically I am an indie
:-)

And once the party starts fully listening to we the people... I will go back
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
24. It simply cannot be said any better than this - outstanding
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. thanks hopefully some of the kids will read it
and most importantly it will make an impact
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nomorewhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
26. excellent post and you are right, this is generational and historic
kicking and reccing
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. I think it is to the JFK level and the 1960 election
as well as, as much as we hate it, 1980 and Ronald Reagan, for essentially the same reasons
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ruby slippers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
30. Godspeed. The burdens you bear are above others that we do so....
thank you for your services and sacrifices. We NEED a generational realignment because Lord knows our generation didn't deliver.....
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Serving is in my blood I guess
and I took it gladly to do what I could over Katrina... small role... but useful role
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ruby slippers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. For now I've left the serving up to my grand-son-in-laws...there are
two of them boys in the Marines, one just got back, one heading over.
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Pushed To The Left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
32. K&R! Sometimes people forget that elections affect real people
It would be one thing if Zell Miller was the Democratic candidate, but he isn't. We have two good Democratic candidates who want to end the war and won't stack the Courts with right wing judges. The Republican has promised right wing judges and wants to stay in Iraq, even if it takes "100 years". The choice in November is clear. It is absolutely pathetic that any Democrat would choose a grudge over the primaries over actual issues.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Some of these folks would be comfy with Zell, and they will leave
Hopefully this will reach some and they will realize just how foolish they look
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
33. good post
Good rant, although I do think that it is addressing a non-existent problem. This comes up again and again and again every election season. People vent and say they aren't going to vote, or whatever. Most will, a few won't - it is always that way. The first don't need the lecture and the second won't listen anyway. See what I mean?

I have observed that most people resort to the "I am not going to vote" threat as a last resort, after they have already been ignored or abused, or believe that they have been. How many people threaten to not vote is a barometer of how abusive the discussions have been. The real way to prevent this is to lecture the abusive posters, not those threatening to not vote IMHO. Lecturing people who say they aren't going to vote is often just piling on, when the person is already feeling beleaguered and stressed as it is.

Anyway, just my view on this, offered for your consideration. As I said, good post, and of course people should vote Dem in November. Kinda goes without saying, yes? Let's do what will lead to that - what will actually work - and that may be something other than lecturing them. You can't bring people back into the fold by threatening them, as some do in these discussions, nor by forcing loyalty tests on people, as always happens on these discussions. "If they won't commit to voting Democratic, toss them!!!' So silly. That is liking saying "if they won't come in from the rain, throw them out in the rain!"
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. I slightly disagree
Edited on Fri May-09-08 01:21 AM by nadinbrzezinski
Most who feel abused need to take some time off... but they need the reminder that elections have consequences

But a few will actually do what they say and in that case, yes the party may have moved on for them

Watching the Daily Show right now... and he's making good points by the way on precisely this
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. no problem
I agree with your goal, but wonder what the most effective way to achieve it might be. Most people will come back in the fold and vote Dem in spite of the lectures, not because of them in my opinion.
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TragedyandHope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
38. K&R - Thanks for the compelling post!
:patriot:

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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
39. K&R for a serious reality check. n/t
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Connonym Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 04:35 AM
Response to Original message
40. K&R, it's personal for all of us
the problem is that not all of us are aware of it. I will sneak my daughters out of the country if that's what it takes to keep them from being drafted in another stupid war for a stupid cause. Working class people who are in the republican party need to step back and ask themselves WTF? because they are buying into a cause that's going to destroy them and anyone who isn't fortunate enough to have a bunch of 000,000's at the end of their bank balance. They've been conned into believing that their tax money is supporting "welfare queens" when the reality is that the vast majority of it is going to corporate welfare. It's certainly not going into making our schools better, or, as you pointed out, making our infrastructure better, it hasn't made us safer, I would argue that it's actually made us less safe and feel less secure. They've tried to scare us about dark-skinned people, into seeing them all as terrorists and our enemy. They've convinced us that if we let them spy on us and let them strip search us at the airport and let them torture our alleged enemies and lock them up without trial that we'll be safe. It's all a fraud, all an illusion. "They" hate us for our freedom? We'll damn it, we'll stop that by taking away our freedom and killing "them", that'll certainly keep us all safe, right? We need to a 180 and we need to do it NOW or we will end up destroying ourselves.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. I'm so glad I don't have children
I fear for the next generation, I truly do.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
41. I don't know which or how many of them
are trolls, and how many are just being complete morons, but I have two things to say about them;

1) exactly the same thing.

2) Thankfully, they'll be weeded out soon enough.


Thanks for posting your thoughtful feelings on this. I hope it gets through to at least a few otherwise not-completely-stupid folks.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
42. K&R
I'll vote for the "D" -- hopefully Obama. Earlier I said I wouldn't vote for Clinton, but McInsanity brought me to my senses with his USSC talk of late.

Good rant. Sorry you are having so much trouble at the present time. :hug:
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
43. Recommended nt
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
44. Thank you!
No matter which candidate we currently prefer, we need to throw our full support behind whomever is the Dem nominee. We simply CANNOT have another Repuke president to screw this country up further!
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
46. kick!
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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
47. Thanks! K&R n/t
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SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
48. This IS personal ! K&R
Nice Post, Thanks :)
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
49. Nadin- You are a smart cookie
I think you know that the small group of people who said they wouldn't vote for the Dem Nominee is small. Within that group almost all will vote for the Nominee in the end. They speak out of anger and frustration.

The number of people who actually won't vote because their candidate lost is microscopic.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #49
75. Exactly, but boy are they LOUD!
And to those few... perhaps we can count them with the fingers of one one...

Here is a well=deserved FUCK YOU
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casaloma Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
50. I Think It's Just Disappointing for Some
As a woman of a "certain age" and one who is lukewarm on both candidates, I think some of the strong feelings surrounding Hillary's candidacy was from women who were in love with the idea of a female president. Because she was the defacto candidate for so long, I think they had just counted on it happening. I have many friends who really didn't ever consider NOT backing Hillary. And as a political watcher for a long time, I don't remember any primaries this divisive. But I truly believe (and hope) we can all pull ourselves together and back our candidate. I know and understand that having the first female president in the lifetime of women who fought for women's rights in the 60s was an exciting thought, but the exact same can be said for Obama's presidency. Neither of them are business as usual and I think we are to be congratulated for that.
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Highway61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
51. Very well said
A big K & R.
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SunDrop23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
52. K&R!!!!
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
53. Another K&R for you.
Well said. :)
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
54. K & R!
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dlfuller Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
55. K&R
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
56. I like it, Nadinbrzezinski!
Excellent tantrum! Vote Democratic ticket! All the way!

We used to have a cockatiel, he threw tantrums. He got sick and died, we suspect the city water supply that is admittedly contaminated. We loved our little tantrum thrower.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #56
76. Ours is in his twenties....
yes he is old... he is part of a flock of a nanday and a young sun conure, and he has the sweetest personality amongst the three

He WAITS for dad to come home from work, late at night... and will have no going to sleep until dad comes home
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #76
115. Thanks for sharing, Nadin. nt
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Mongooseflies Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
57. Will not send my son to this war ever.
Even if it means shooting him in the foot to keep him out.
Gotta do what ya gotta do.


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bpeale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
58. well this personal FUCK YOU is personal too
you can';t make people vote how you want them to vote. if you had one million votes to cast instead of one, then you would be entitled to a fuck you. as it is, you do not. so, right ... fuck you OP. fuck you.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #58
77. I'm not putting a gun to anybody's head or forcing them to vote
but I will take it you will not vote for the nominee...

Well then, don't come back and cry when all your rights are gone...oh wait, you won't be able to
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kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
59. K&R and book marked so that I can present your points
to those who say that they can't vote for the nominee so they'll stay home or vote for McBush.
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ampad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
60. Oh thank you
Hubby is in the Navy and I'm seven months pregnant. We just got word a couple of days ago that they want him in Iraq. No word yet on if they will actually send him but my two little ones overheard our conversation and are beyond themselves. Bless you and your family. All of us will get through this one way or the other. Those that choose to behave like children because someone on the internets pissed them off deserve what they get if they go in that voting booth and vote for McCain. I really think people like that need to talk to a professional. There is no way in hell someone on the internet is going to make me vote against the best interest of my babies, no way in hell.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #60
78. From a "retired" Navy wife to you, hugs
I know just how hard it can and is... only thing missing was children.

Then again he was never home....


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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
61. A democratic Democratic force
Edited on Fri May-09-08 10:19 AM by PATRICK
is a big argument I included for Edwards. Obama has the same argument owned. And it goes beyond him to all the people who vote in that force- many of whom WILL be cheated out their vote counting like casualties of a war rather a "free" election.

People who vote against democracy comprise those who vote for the GOP and those who don't vote at all with the people who vote for a third party having some measure of respect and positive effect even in this crisis. people who don't vote at all are choosing to let democracy die and make it even more difficult for the real voters to have legitimate weight.

The strength of the tide moves the next administration, in coattails, in sheer momentum, in demands and dues beyond corporate control(maybe for the first time in several elections at least). We move and carry leadership beyond its flaws, beyond its elevated person.

It is incumbent upon the voters to act and the consequences for each of us are the most costly and direct, much more so than upon the careers of any politicians. the greater the voice the greater the tidal wave over the resistance- from the crooks, the establishment or even a reticent different minded President and Congress. The first thing we should demand is doing away with the influence of the middle men between ourselves and OUR government, i.e. get total campaign finance reform and a public service media. Then the issues which everyone seems to have a tough time with because corporations have insane influence over a civil society can be dealt with. The flaws of the president will be OUR flaws, not those of corporate rules and interests.

To stop being played as suckers, as conned idiots divided against themselves and pouring money and blood into the pockets of a grinning few, channel all your emotions, all your moral and life demands in the direction we have open to us. Against the GOP stooges and for Democrats who will lead- or get run over if they don't. We already do not have one man/one vote or a fair playing ground. We don't need to affirm all these evils with what passes as righteous outrage against leaders who have no meaning if GOP tyranny wins again. There is not a single political leader who is out ahead of the tortured populace. To vote is to choose to lead.
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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
62. Thank you for my son;
Just turned 23 and prime for drafting.

"
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Juan_de_la_Dem Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
63. Totally and completely personal. Rec....
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
64. K&R VERY well said!! nt
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
65. K&R -- Vote Democratic -- consider the alternative
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
66. Well said.
Nominated.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
68. Good post, your post is talking to maybe 10 people.
Of all the threads I read on DU, maybe 10 people at the most won't vote for Barack. Why? Because this is Democratic Underground.

The problem is in the real world:

1. Apathetic people who won't bother to vote for anyone

2. People who abstain because they just can't stand Barack, for their own reasons

3. Current supporters of Barack who think their work is done and he'll be a shoe-in, so they don't even bother to show up to vote in November, convinced that he's got it all locked up

3. People who can't stand Barack's supporters (The Dean swarm effect, when people are repulsed by overwhelming unrelenting in-your-face enthusiasm.)

4. People who think the United States is a crappy country and deserves to be punished with McCain

5. Failure to plan ahead by Democrats who think we won't experience the same, or worse, election tampering. It's been 4 years now, and very little has been accomplished, except voter ID laws which serve to suppress, rather than encourage, the vote.

"The sky is falling" doesn't convince people to vote. That tactic failed in 2004. People have got to be convinced that Barack is competent and capable of handling the job. A smart campaign is not proof of ability to govern. Gawd, just look at the rove/bush team. Brilliant campaigners. They played everyone like a fiddle.

Just my 2 cents. I have to go to work now.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #68
70. #3 is .000000000000000000000001% of the total electorate.
i have knocked on a lot of doors this year, and i can tell you that people are dying to vote for him "for real"
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #68
79. Agreed, it is maybe ten people
but they needed to perhaps read it... I quite honestly doubt they read it... or perhaps one did.

As to brilliant campaigners and bush... I will slightly disagree there.

It helps when they had the USSC in their pocket in 2000 and many a SOS (chiefly OH) in 2004

As to lousy runners of government... again wrong... they have accomplished everything they wanted, in spades

The mistake many have made is NOT to understand what was the goal of the Bush and Corporatists, and they are SO CLOSE to achieving it, they can taste it, and why the desperation now that a black man is about to take over... hell Berloscuni just achieved it in Italy Fascism is back to Europe... and Bush wants full forced fascism in the US. THey are THIS close.

They'd have a lot less of a trouble with BO if he was black but more openly corporatist.

He has a smidgen of independence from the "big donors" and I do hope he will be more liberal than his very centrist voting record belies. I will remind you. FDR did NOT run on the New Deal.


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wvbygod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
69. I don't know one Hillary supporter that would vote McCain
However there are many that proclaim they will write in Hillary's name in November.
I don't share this mentality but that is what I see here in the most democratic
neck of the woods.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
71. Thank You!
I only disagree with one thing that you said. It is not fine if they decide to stay home. Damnit people, get out and vote for the Democrat this November. Don't think of it as voting for the lesser evil, think of it as voting for the BEST POSSIBLE VIABLE CHOICE.

Reread Nadinbrzezinski's post. Then read this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5889769

Think about the situations of these people. Think about millions of others in similar or worse situations. Get over your self-rightiousness and get out there and vote for the damned Democrat. Hold you nose if you have to, but do it! And do it with a clean conscience because you'll be doing the most you can to make a bad situation at least marginably better, rather than staying home and possibly making things worse.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #71
80. Why this is fine is... I cannot force them to vote
but... in my view not voting... unless there are very strong circumstances for it (like a medical emergency... and yes I have gone to vote with a high fever).... they have given up any right to bitch.

You don't vote, you don't carry out your citizen's duty... then I don't want to hear it when you have no money for gas. Essentially if you refuse to participate in this citizen's duty... you have abrogated your rights, to a point, and chiefly your right to bitch.

In my view in this election if they vote for McCain or write her in... same scenario.

The only situation where I will respect them is if they stick to guns and vote third party...

But wait you will say, that is a vote for McCain...

Not really... it is a vote for democracy. We need third parties to get the other two out of the rutt and strategic voting will have to become an art form in the US if we are to get the stranglehold of the two large ones out. I guess that is a discussion for another day... and in a way I will have to thank Rush for bringing the concept across the ocean... not that he implemented it well, or knew what he was doing with it.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #80
95. The only way we can break out of the two party system
is to change our electoral system. With the current system, third parties will always end up being spoilers. We need instant runoff voting.
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
72. all too true, but
the simple fact is the world is full of spoiled attention-seeking brats, and some of them are on this board. They will continue to make declarations that they will never ever do this or that because they think anyone else in the world gives a rat's ass what they do or think.

You wrote eloquently, but unfortunatly, pointlessly. You said you were addressing a few, and wrote "you know who you are." Well, there you have it. The ones you addressed will no more accept or respect what you wrote, no matter how persuasive, than a spoiled two-year-old will stop screaming and kicking his feet until he is exhausted.

Just put them on ignore and get on with your life. You've better things to do than try to convert idiots.

just my &.02
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #72
82. We have at most ten three year olds on this board
If I managed to reach ONE... my job is done

:-)

My two cents.

And yes, I understand that behavior from my cockatiel... hell it is funny when he does it... (He starts beaking his toy and screeching and trying to get attention)... but with an adult, it is far from cute.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
73. Kicked and recommended.
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
74. How long does it take to destroy a great country?
Seven years if you work hard at it.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
81. K&R
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
83. You are using the dead to support your candidate?
Edited on Fri May-09-08 01:37 PM by mac2
Obama and Clinton both want the troops to stay in Iraq. They just call it a different action like "policing".

The oligarchy made sure there was no anti-war candidate running for President.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. Reality will bite them in the ass if they even try to stay there for a hundred years, oh hold it
that is McCain's line... but REALITY is that this war is unsustainable and has been for a while.

and I am not using the dead to support my candidate.

I am supporting the PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE

My Candidate was first Dennis Kucinich and I voted for Edwards in the Primary

The Primary IS OVER

Get it now?
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. Yes..the primary and ability to end the war was over before
Super Tuesday.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. The war will end... because if ANY wants to stay there for ever
they will need a draft.

THose of us who have seen the destruction of the armed forces first hand know how unsustainable this is

We will be out of there... SOON... just don't expect a sudden pull out

Retreats are amongst the most dangerous of military operations, especially for the rear force

That said.... knowing junior and the bushes, before they leave they will attack Iran... remember Somalia
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DemOkie Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
85. As the father of
an Iraq veteran daughter, who is now in Afgahnistan...I say

YOU ROCK
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mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. I hope she makes it home OK.
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DemOkie Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. Thanks Mac
I tried to get her to enlist in the civilians, but noooo...seems to have gotten a stubborn streak. Must be from her mother.

She is at least, in the "less" dangerous part, for what that means. I just want her home and at least the stupid Iraq folly over.

GOBAMA
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. Hey there, hugs... and tell your daughter to keep her head low
and not play hero... and come home
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barack the house Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
91. I think you nailed it with the vocal minority. I'm with you we move forward and fast now.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Well been posting links to this thread for them to see... I count
FOUR....

I know we may have TEN TOPS....

And out of those ten, I can bet come November eight will quietly vote for Obama even if they will never admit to it.

The other two... we can't do a damn thing about them.

And if they keep this crap after the nominee is officially declared... then there are some yummy granite pizzas with all the fixings in their future
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
92. K&R n/t
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
94. Here's my new Political Party...The ABM Party
Anybody But McCain. I think many people who are not enthused, or just plain disgusted with this primary, can get behind this Party.

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genna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
96. Wow! I have never quite heard a unifying message of such sensitivity
*sarcasm* I think you should probably sit at that next meeting to negotiate between Israel and Palestine. You will truly be able to set that conciliatory tone we need so much.


I still recommended this thread. It is one thing to be irritated with this world is coming to an end for women rhetoric, but have some heart the issues in 2008 are big, all of our butts are on the line and the level of tact required to manage of coalition needs to be higher.


I can't even imagine someone telling me my concerns are short sighted when I have reason to feel wronged when I see my main icon leave the stage. I'd be upset.


I'm still upset about the guilt by association smear the media, Clintons, and Republicans ran on Obama concerning Rev. Wright. I am angry that church leader who is not running for office and has moved towards retirement has to see 30 years of work hijacked by people who disagree with his underlying beliefs. I am also angry when I see an icon of women's dreams, Geraldine Ferraro, resort to saying it's because I'm white after receiving 80% of the African American vote for Dukakais. If she didn't need consensus support, she should have refused the help.


None of this is easy. Holding my nose and supporting the Democratic candidate would be hard too. If I had somone poking me in the eye while I tried to do it, I'd be aggrieved.

EASE UP.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. There is MORE than just Roe V Wade at stake
but thanks for your concern

By the way... I did not claim this to be a unity message but a reality check

And at times you need to call adults for their very childish behavior
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
98. Sometimes you just have to say what needs to be said.
Edited on Fri May-09-08 04:55 PM by happydreams
Until people refuse to fight, go AWOL, desert or whatever, this "war" will continue. I've had people rag on me to no end for saying it, but volunteers--your husbands included-- are profiting from this crime.

What will they do if they are forced to kill somebody in this "war"?
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ladym55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
99. Thank you for saying this
I've been toying for weeks with a "President John McCain ... think about it" post to get people to wake up, but you did it so well and with such power. I hope people start to listen.

And it isn't just DU. I listen to progressive radio, and Hillary supporters call in (and after complaining that the host is bashing Hillary) begin whining how they couldn't POSSIBLY vote for Obama in the fall.

We must unify and push for a Democrat in the White House and larger majorities in both the House and Senate.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #99
102. The final cold splash of water will come when
she tells them it is time to line up.

A few will refuse to, but most will do what is right... even if quietly and would never admit to it in polite company
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duhneece Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
100. Amen. There is a time for righteous anger
A time we must stand up. Thank you-it's personal for me, too and I'm proud to stand next to you.
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LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
101. rec &
:kick:

:toast:
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ChimpersMcSmirkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
103. K&R, nice post!
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catalinacat Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
104. what if Clinton was the nominee
Would you still be throwing out your 'let's all try to get along' thread? How many Clinton supporters have you harrassed for months, maybe not you but others here, calling us rascists, whores, etc. hey , anything goes when it's big bad Hillary

They have disenfranchised voters, the candidate has acted like the child he is, has questionable associates, lack both judgment and experience ….. and you think we are safer with him than McCain?

We don’t even really know what policies Obama believes in and what he can get done.

He wants to meet world leaders without preconditions?

He never even held a committee meeting … and you feel safe with him and think he is good for the country because he is running as a Democrat?

Are you crazy?

We should reward aggressive behavior and threats of a riot if things don’t go his way with the Presidency??? LOL

You are kidding right?

Hillary or McCain. … no questions.

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But.... Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #104
106. ?
No I'm not crazy and that tack is not going to win me over.
1-Both sides had trolls, no one disputes this.
2-If Obama disenfranchised voters then Hillary did too. They both agreed to the same terms at the beginning(not the terms we may have liked but what we had to deal with)
3-How many debates did we have? 22/23? Did you watch any of them?
4-Hell yes, I consider this one of his best positions, you have to talk to people even if you disagree with them. (Like us?)
5-So? Then only committee chairman should ran for president?:rofl:
6-What aggressive behavior? Did he set a moving pick on the basketball court?
No I not kidding.
Tell John I said Hi. We will see him this fall.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #104
112. Go ahead and stick with the war mongers. It is diplomacy that prevents wars not mindless
Edited on Fri May-09-08 09:59 PM by mod mom
bravado and saber rattling. We've had enough of that tough talk that lead to disastrous actions.

How the fuck do you expect to prevent attacks on our people with either candidate? One is singing along to Bombing Iran in tune of a Beachboy's melody, while the other comments on obliterating Iran. Wow...that's a great way to deter terrorists from striking. Me, I'll take diplomacy, integrity and honesty over your choices.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #104
113. YES,
Edited on Fri May-09-08 10:31 PM by nadinbrzezinski
Silly season is over, my candidate was first Kucinich (I gave money and I did what I could)

After he pulled out, I then formed behind Edwards, gave money and voted for him

Neither of them is the nominee

Although I'd rather have them be the nominee, since I personally believe in THEIR policies... the Primary is over... get it now?

That means Obama is the Nominee, and if HRC had been the nominee this would be directed at ten to fifteen folks who'd be throwing a very similar tanter trantrum

Is this crystal for you?

SILLY SEASON, otherwise known as the primary is over... time to line up behind the prospective nominee.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
105. Thank you.
For the service, the eloquence, and the example of strong citizenship you set.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
107. YES ! A vote for McCain is a vote for MORE WAR. PERIOD. BLOOD on the hands of his supporters !!
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
108. K&R.
Excellent thoughts and heartfelt observations. We need more of this here.

Thanks!

--DZ
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footinmouth Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
109. Thank you
Your post makes a lot of sense. I'm a definite minority because after this endless primary I still love both of them. My husband (Republican) and I will both be voting for the Democratic nominee, whomever he or she may be.

I can only bring myself to visit this place once a week. It's been too toxic for too long.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #109
114. Visit other places of the board.
GD-P is toxic

You are right

:-)
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
110. K&R..
We need to keep these kinds of posts up!
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mcollier Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. ALERT!!!!!
I HAVE TO STRONGLY CAUTION ALL OBAMA SUPPORTERS WHOSE STATES HAVE NOT YET VOTED, PLEASE GET OUT AND VOTE WHEN YOUR VOTING DATE ARRIVES. THE RACE IS NOT OVER, SO DO NOT BUY INTO WHAT THE MEDIA IS SAYING. THEY ARE GIVING OFF A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY.

IF THE MEDIA ARE ABLE TO GET OBAMA'S VOTERS TO STAY AT HOME, WITH THE FALSE SENSE THAT OBAMA HAS ALREADY WON, HILLARY WILL WALK OFF WITH THE NOMINATION, BECAUSE YOU BETTER BELIEVE THAT HILLARY IS TELLING HER SUPPORTERS TO GO OUT AND VOTE.

OBAMA SUPPORTERS, THIS RACE IS NOT DONE UNTIL ALL THE VOTING IN EVERY STATE IS DONE.
SO OBAMA VOTERS GET OUT AND VOTE, NO MATTER WHAT THE MEDIA SAYS, OBAMA NEEDS ALL YOUR VOTES, THIS RACE IS NOT OVER UNTIL ALL THE STATES HAVE VOTED!!!

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