The Florida Paper Trail bill which led to the DNC slashing the voices of 1.7 million Democrats

This morning local network affiliates in South West Florida report:

Elections going back to paper ballots

A synopsis of the papa trail saga

All Democratic voters ,regardless of their preferred candidate, should be outraged that Florida’s 1.7 million voters voices are silenced over this, and that their delegates will not be seated at the Democratic convention because of this.

All Republicans voters are laughing their heads off.

by simply voting against it.

Rules are rules!

when they knew their primary wasn't going to count before the voting. And how many of them chose to stay home since they weren't going to vote in the presidential contest? Why is it that the Clinton campaign has no problem disenfranchising them for choosing to avoid the primary in protest?

until she needed them.

She doesn't care about anything that doesn't work to her advantage.

Typical Hillary...

Freakin go away if you cannot stick to the subject of the thread.

Guess what, I am not going away. Clinton lies about MI (I was against MI before I was for them) is totally related to her lies about Florida.

Please provide I link with her thoughts about Florida prior to the primaries starting. Alas, you know that she didn't give a shit about either state until she realized it was in her own best political interest, but I want to the hilarity you come up with.

Hillary/Baghdad Bob 08!

Otherwise stick to the subject of this one.

DU rules.

Don't you think the two are related enough to discuss in the same thread?

They've already scheduled a date to seat them (5/31). Obama is just playing with Hillary right now. Hillary is like a dog that's chewing up your sofa cushions, so Obama tossed her the FL & MI bones. Her campaign is now forced to split their time and energy between seating FL and MI as well as other things. Great strategy by the Obama campaign. Hillary actually took the time to write a letter to Obama about it and it's part of her stump speech too. Every second she spends focused on FL and MI is a second she can't focus on other things in her campaign. And everybody knows that her campaign is hardly well-run to begin with, so throwing FL and MI into it just clogs up more gears in her campaign.

If you could please resist the obvious compulsion to inject Hillary hate into all things Florida - - you might realize that 1.7 million Floridians do not have the Mccaskill cheerleading concept in mind. Not hardly.

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of registered Democrats?

In December of 2007 Senator Carl Levin, D-Mich., said in a statement: “The threat not to seat the delegates of Michigan and Florida at the Democratic convention is a hollow threat. They will be seated, and when they are, it will be plain for all to see that the privileged position that New Hampshire and Iowa have extracted through threats and pledges from candidates is on its last legs.”

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/shared/news/DNC02_PBP.html

perception of whether the sanctions voted on by the Democratic National Committee would be carried out, have to do with Hillary Clinton's agreement to abide by the Democratic Party Rules? Harold Ickes voted to strip Florida and Michigan's delegates for God's sake. How many articles need to be posted for you to admit the truth?

Carl Levin did not want the sanctions carried out. Period.

It's hard for me to believe that Hillary haters still try to push on this lie. It is truly disgraceful, this Democratic hate against 1.7 million Democrats in Florida.

didn't you get that TPS report? It's all about convincing the supers that Obama can't win because he's black now. I know that the goalposts keep changing, by do try to keep up.

When? After the election? Could you please provide any literature that backs up that claim? I'm sorry the facts do not sit well with "Hillary Lovers". It is truly disgraceful that "Democrats" advocate dissolving the "Democratic National Party", and it's rules. The "Democratic Party" is not the party of "Hillary Clinton, Michigan, and Florida".

The Paper Trail was of utmost priority. And this important fact is 35,000 feet over the heads of Obama supporters such as Donna Brazile, who could truly care less about Floridains.

Vote against it, your delegates get seated.

They knew the score before the vote.

Please - get your story straight.

Get yours straight.

That should be quite simple if what you're screaming was in fact true, shouldn't it??????

Well, let's see it.

funny they didn't matter before the fuck up by the FL legislature.

she knew they wouldn't count.

Trashing my thread will never make what you say accurate.

for their people against the Rs. Political suicide sometimes is a worthy thing.

Try focusing.

Most Floridians had no idea Wexler would betray them

Yours appears to be looking through brown drippings, the source of which has been often told on this very board.

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McCain is leading Obama in Florida by significant numbers - - many say a direct result of Obama silencing the voices of 1.7 million Democrats and Wexler going along with it.

...in our household. It's zero-to-zero and looks likely to stay that way.

One will vote for McCain if Hillary is not the nominee.

One will write in Hillary's name.

Things could change, however.

what they wanted them to vote.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5897250&mesg_id=5897341

Please.

Maybe it will make the disenfranchisement of 1.75 million Florida Dems seem like the RIGHT thing to do somehow. Good luck with that.

Buy yourself some good champagne for McCain's Inauguration. You've earned it!

violating DNC rules in order to comply with state legislation. What is outrageous is that Wexler who was right there is guilty of allowing this to happen without putting up a fight or without recognizing the damage about to be inflicted upon the DNC.

Perhaps Wexler was already supporting Obama that day when he stood close to Crist for the photo op - - a bill that lead to the slashing of 1.7 million Democratic voices?

Republicans have a little bit less than a 2-1 advantage in each chamber.

thought that they could violate the rules with impunity and that you would attempt to spin it into someting that it is not.

The republicans asked them how they wanted them to vote, since it wasn't their parties issue, and the pompous Democrat Steve Gellar sealed the fate, because he wanted to be more relevant.

Thanks for posting this argument. It merely shows off the deplorable political blunder of the DNC over the interpretation of ONE Democratic. That's right - - punish 1.7 million because of this.

I cannot thank you enough for posting this hate. You prove the case for millions of Floridians against the DNC.

They are responsible for putting them in the position, they accept the consequences, thats how a republic works.

Your hate is self loathing. YOU ARE TO BLAME FOR THE LOSS.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x108575

As to proving a republic is representatives chosen by voters, I think you can handle that yourself.

You said - coordinated effort.

Prove it. I've had enough of your deceptive tricks.

Ive had enough of your double speak, up is down, truth is deceptive.

Good luck with your denial, failure and freep conversion.

See ya on the other side of the purge.

If you survive, I doubt it. Cornfed dont mean brainfood.

I asked for proof - - proof of this 'coordinated effort' you spit out.

not more subjective interpreting

And what on earth is this childish pomp all about : 'See ya on the other side of the purge. If you survive'. If you think you can intimidate me by your poop - - you're even younger than I thought.


Then again - some people never grow up, do they?

???

I think this is such an important part of this situation and one that has been consistently downplayed by some.

You are right the RNC and the Republican Party of Florida are most likely very pleased with the DNC's over-reaction.

I've wondered whether the DNC had other motives to take all the delegates. Compare the importance of the Republican primary, where the RNC took 1/2 the delegates and McCain gained crucial pre-Super Tuesday momentum, to the Democratic primary with its 1.7 million Democratic voters, which the media ignored and Hillary won 50-33 over Obama.

We've heard a lot about the demographics of a state this campaign season. Florida certainly more closely mirrors a demographic favorable to Senator Clinton (and so does Michigan). I've wondered whether some in the DNC may have acted out of a partisan desire to freeze the contest and exclude two states clearly favorable to Senator Clinton.

We've also heard "the math" for a number of months now. Of course, "the math" excluded two of the largest eight states in the union; so much for that "50 State Strategy."

I've talked to a number of registered Democratic voters who are frustrated that our votes are being ignored by our own party. That emotion will be an obstacle for Senator Obama in the fall election.

We watched the huge republican celebration on all news networks, which clearly was the beginning of McCain's massive momentum.

But Hillary received 870,986 votes. She received the most votes of any candidate - Republican and Democratic. MSNBC did not even report the Democratic numbers when reporting election results. All other stations reported that the votes would not count.

But the votes were counted - certified by the Secretary of the State of Florida, and recorded in the history books - showing Hillary's record shattering victory.

It makes no sense. The DNC, Donna Brazile, Howard Dean, all of them should be ashamed for what they've done to Democrats in Florida. They've not only insulted the voices of 1.7 million Democrats, they killed the Democratic momentum in Florida both today and perhaps for at least a decade.

Just witness how the RNC punished Florida by keeping with their 50% rule.

Thanks for posting, Maribelle. I'm hoping that this nightmare is resolved in a way that gives Hillary the votes she earned, because if it's not, the consequence in November will be grave. All these Obama supporters that praise Dean for his enforcement of DNC "Rules", will be feeling very foolish in Nov.


Thanks again.

Go Hillary!!

Be big enough to admit it.

Rasmussen has ended daily tracking between the two candidates.

Hillary's flinging racist code speech left and right.

It's over. She's toast.

That's not a loss. That's tragic.

Please just go away if all you want to do is bash me and not discuss the subject of the tread. You're breaking DU rules.

shrieking out about how Hillary was screwed in Florida and Michigan?

Really?

The Chairman of our party disagrees with you, Maribelle.

So do I.

Some of these voters chose Obama.

Dean is right. You are wrong.

The fact is, quite a few of us support him.

I certainly liked him in 04 but I like him even better now, and he's had this one right from the start.

Which means your OP -- by no means the first of its kind -- is essentially spam.

task for the shit campaign she's running.

It uses more polite adjectives than the one I used, but we're on the same page.

Again, your petulant defiance of Howard Dean is untoward.

I live and work here. The only people who feel like they are losing their voices are a few hundred people being used as puppets at those events organized by wealthy Clinton supporters.

I went to the event in Broward County. It was laughable.

There's no outrage here. I expect you to be banned in about three weeks and I'm counting the minutes :)

And your attempted intimidation: "I expect you to be banned in about three weeks and I'm counting the minutes" does not work for a second.

Go away with your hate mongering.

Once this nomination is settled, there will be no bashing of Obama allowed. I doubt you will be able to get past those rules.

You don't live in florida. Have you been to any of the events here? Have you talked to the supporters on the ground attending these events? I have. I'm more informed.

Go away.

opposed the bill and explained it to the voters, they would have a case to make. They thought they could wink wink their way through this, spit in Howard Dean's face, and get on the good side of the next President. Well too bad, it blew up in their face. They'll have to wait for Hillary to concede her delegates.

They were not bound to have a primary that
broke the rules.

Total crappage.

And for the OP to portray the legislation as
the will of one (1) bad democrat!

The vote was 115 to 1 with HIM!

Trashing Wexler is the final straw.

He is Florida's shining light.

Fact, they knew the consequences when they did it.

Fact, Hillary knew there was no campaign in Florida and the entire basis of democracy is the ability of the voter to know the nominees through a campaign.

Fact, Hllary claimed a phony victory anyway.

Fact, Florida will be seated when the loser concedes their delegates, when all delegates will rally behind the winner, the way it always works. Nobody will be disenfranchised.

The rules don't say there isn't any other consequence possible. Florida was given a chance to fix this problem and they just refused because the Florida Dems are trying to throw it to Hillary.

"Under the DNC delegate selection rules, if a state party’s plan violates the rule with
respect to timing, the number of its pledged delegates—those delegates awarded proportionally
to candidates based on the primary or caucus results—is automatically reduced 50% (without
any action by the RBC or DNC); no member of the DNC can attend the Convention as a
delegate; no Member of Congress can attend the Convention as a delegate; and if applicable, the
state’s Democratic governor can not attend the Convention as a delegate. In addition, any
presidential candidate who campaigns in the state for the event in violation of the rules cannot
receive any pledged delegates from that state. In addition to these automatic sanctions, the DNC
RBC has authority under the rules to impose additional sanctions, including further reductions in
the state’s delegation.

At its meeting on August 25, 2007, the DNC RBC found Florida’s plan in noncompliance
with the DNC rules, and voted to increase the sanctions against Florida by reducing
the state’s delegation by 100% unless the state party, within the 30-day period allowed by the
Committee’s regulations, submitted a plan for an alternative, state party-run process on or after
February 5 that would be used to allocate delegate positions."

http://spa.american.edu/ccps/getpdf.php?table=publications&ID=67

The bill was signed into law by Crist in May of 2007. The 100% was not created until August of 2007 - - almost exactly three months later.

No one knew in May of 2007 that in August of 2007 the DNC would slash Florida of 100% of her delegates.

Attempting to imply otherwise is merely attempting to impose total fallacy on the debate. Both Republicans and Democrats truly believed they would be punished by 50%.

The Republicans belief came to fruition.

The Democrats had the rug pulled out from under them.

"Nothing in the preceding subsections of this rule shall be construed to prevent the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee from imposing additional sanctions,

"...the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee may determine that all or a portion of the state’s delegation shall not be reduced."

What is it about the word "all" that isn't clear.

http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/democratic1.download.akamai.com/8082/pdfs/2008delegateselectionrules.pdf

that elected officials were not acting in good faith.

would be acting in good faith. Scheduling a caucus would be acting in good faith. They weren't acting in good faith. This was a power play and the DLC lost.

is that Florida knew in August of 2007, exactly what the consequences would be and chose not to pursue any type of reconciliation with the "Democratic Party".

from the primary voting process, changing the rules now would be equally bad and unfair. It is patently unfair to the candidates that did not campaign in those states (with the understanding that their delegations would not be allowed to vote at the convention) to now just take those primary results as if all was normal.

I believe we are now between a rock and a hard place. Republicans in Florida are purposely making a laughing stock out of Democrats. All Democrats - - even those that voted for Obama, but especially those that voted for Obama - - which in the districts where Obama won also reported record turnouts.

Let's say they had a re-vote in Michigan and Florida. Who has the money to spend campaigning? Who would likely do better and pick up enough delegates to keep the gap from closing at all?

Obama.

So she doesn't want that. What she wants is a snapshot frozen in time when she had an advantage. She doen't want the "voices heard", she wants the "voices that she wants to hear".

I say hold new elections in both states. Watch what happens.

:eyes:

how US Representative Wexler had anything to do with the FL Legislature cutting in line against the rules?