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Austinitis Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:34 AM
Original message
Is it over? Not Quite Yet.
Edited on Fri May-09-08 09:39 AM by Austinitis
A hugely interesting article from Jay Cost's http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/">HorseRaceBlog. Some excerpts:

Elite opinion on the Democratic race has congealed around the idea that it is over. Clinton has no chance whatsoever to win the nomination now. There is a minority of http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/07/politics/main4076794.shtml">analysts http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/05/07/2008-05-07_ugly_truth_why_hillary_clinton_wont_quit.html">out http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/michael_tomasky/2008/05/the_end_of_the_line_1.html">there - maybe 5%, maybe even less - who see her path to the nomination as much narrower than it was four days ago, but who still see a path.

I'm with the minority on this one. I think she is nearly finished, but not quite yet.


Two things are holding me back: West Virginia and Kentucky.

The conventional wisdom has it that Clinton did herself major damage Tuesday night by getting blown out in North Carolina. I completely agree. This hurt her with the pledged delegate count. Much more important, I think, is that it hurt her with the popular vote count, which she must win to press an argument with the superdelegates.

However, it is possible that she could counter Tuesday's blowout with two big blowouts of her own in the next two weeks. This could undo most of the damage done by her big loss in North Carolina, and put her back on track.

West Virginia is 95% white, and one of the poorest states in the nation. Demographically, Pennsylvania's twelfth congressional district is a decent proxy of it. Clinton won Pennsylvania's twelfth by 46 points. A recent Rasmussen survey put her up 29 points in the Mountaineer State, with 17% undecided. http://sundaygazettemail.com/News/200805050638">Another poll had her up 40 points, with Obama under 25%.

Kentucky is not as poor or as white as West Virginia, but it is nearly so. Demographically, Kentucky falls somewhere between Ohio's sixth congressional district, which went for Clinton by 45 points, and the seventeenth, which went for her by 28 points. A recent Survey USA poll of the Bluegrass State had her up 34 points - with a staggering 72 point lead in the east, where Obama was winning less than 20% of the vote. Rasmussen recently had her up 25 points with 13% undecided.

Courtesy of the perspicacious http://race42008.com/2008/05/08/wha-happen-part-deux/">Sean Oxendine, here's a graphical representation of how Appalachia has performed. The deepest blue represents countywide Clinton victories of 30+.


As Oxendine says in his analysis of Indiana and North Carolina: "Appalachia didn't budge . She is going to absolutely blow him out of the water in West VA and KY."

So, here's my question. What happens to "It's Over" if Clinton pulls a 40-point victory in West Virginia on Tuesday, then follows it up a week later with a 30-point victory in Kentucky? If these states turn out in the same margins that states since March 4th have averaged, that would imply a net of about 290,000 votes for Clinton. That puts her within striking distance of a reasonable popular vote victory. "Over" will be over as we turn our attention to Puerto Rico.


Read the rest of the article http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2008/05/not_quite_yet_1.html">here.

Keep the race going https://contribute.hillaryclinton.com/may6b.html">here
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. Fucking stupid--Dems don't nominate by popular vote. It's delegates. And
the race is over. Appalachia isn't going to change it.
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Austinitis Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. If you're not going to reply to the substance of the article, you could just say "nuh-uh!"
n/t
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I did reply to the substance of the article.
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cd3dem Donating Member (927 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. GE's are won by electoral votes and BO loses there!
So if you insist on his endorsement, then get ready for President McCain!
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Austinitis Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I agree - you should take a look at these two maps
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Idiotic. You can't assume the primary results are applicable to the GE
in any particular state. A head-to-head matchup between two parties is a whole new ballgame. Otherwise, you can assume McCain will lose the Deep South because they seemed to prefer Huckabee during the GOP primary, right?
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Austinitis Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Those maps don't show primary results. n/t
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. It will STILL be over.
The SDs are going to decide this thing and they won't change their minds because of the results out of WV and KY.
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Austinitis Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. We'll see. n/t
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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. Good Article.
Thanks
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
5. Well, then she can be President of Puerto Rico
God!
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
7. Nothing happens because Obama follows-up with a blowout in Oregon.
And then Clinton resigns from the game.

Tesha
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Austinitis Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:44 AM
Original message
I don't think I've seen any analysts predicting an Obama "blowout". He should get +~5%
But a blowout would end it. Again.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
12. If 1.14% was a "game changing win" in Indiana, then 5% is a "blowout" in Oregon.
Serously, Obaa has a much stronger organization on the
ground in Oregon than does Clinton; I tink he'll do fine
there, blowout or not.

And a lot depends on how many Oregonians have already
voted, because I'm confident that more and more of
them support Obama over Clinton every day.

Tesha
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yes, Oregon and Montana are conspicuously absent from the article as posted.
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Austinitis Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. He talks about Oregon
And Montana is in the spreadsheet.
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Raffi Ella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
10. .
:thumbsup:

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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
11. WV only has 29 delegates - even a blowout won't change the math.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. WV has 29 delegates. That doesn't change the math. I understand not wanting
to believe that it's over, but Austin, it's over. The supers aren't being convinced by her argument now, and they can see WV and KY coming just as much as we can.
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Austinitis Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. If WV did anything it would have to be a popular vote thing.
No one thinks she can catch up in delegates any more.

And I'm not trying to restart the pop vote vs. delegate thing again. I was just surprised to see someone suggesting she could still take the popular vote.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
14. Hillary could win 85% of the remaining contest and it would still be over
Over now = Over then

It's over.

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Austinitis Donating Member (726 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. It would be over, but in her favor... n/t
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
16. Jesus, I'm tired of this half baked shit. Insert your snark here.
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