A very simple question to any HRC supporter considering defection

Let's just assume the following for the sake of this question:

• Obama wins the nomination

• Obama does not offer the VP slot to HRC

• Obama does not pay off her campaign debt

• The delegates from MI and FL are seated with MI apportioned according to the latest plan w/ HRC netting 10 delegates

• Obama supporters here continue to infuriate you because they are so mean and anonymous internet posters continue to rule your life

• Nobody here gives a damn about extending an olive branch

• No new evidence comes to light that Obama is actually the devil

• Obama picks Richardson as a running mate

Here's the very simple question:

What would be your primary reason for voting for John McCain?

And that Democrat is Richardson.

You don't need an explanation from me then. I'll also point out that is the only thing that I can think of that would turn me off of the Big O.

their mind. I'll bet you thought Richardson would be a good pick for HRC had he supported her so why the change?

Probably the VP spot. He had already committed multiple times to Clinton. I normally wouldn't object to such a deal, but I won't have my face rubbed in it.

you would be upset. However, HRC is the queen at backroom deals, it is called politics. Can you honestly say you would rather have McCain than have your "face rubbed in it"?

Win at any cost, morals, reality and common sense be damned.

Obama fans like to be.

if a calm, reasoned arguement won't help?

:shrug:

and lashing out.

Now is the time for patience and giving them the space to sort it out for themselves. If we try to force it, it may just stiffen their resolve to never vote for Obama. They have the right to vote for who they want, and they have the right to take as long as they need to get over a very big political disappointment.

Don't you remember how disappointed the Dean supporters were in 2004? They didn't just, the day after Dean withdrew from the race, burn their Dean campaign stuff, and say "Woo-Hoo, where do I sign up to volunteer for Kerry!"

The most important thing we can do is NOT rise to the anger-bait used by Hillary and her campaign staff and surrogates, and NOT rise to the anger-bait that lashing-out Hillary supporters are posting.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5915001&mesg_id=5915256

Yeah, sure, ya betcha.

Obama can actually beat McCain with a divided Democratic Party. :spray:

after she tears it apart for her own personal gain.

win all by himself without the support of Hillary Clinton supporters.

Otherwise, you wouldn't have posted this thinly veiled attack OP.

I also know that it shouldn't matter what I post here because if someone will defect becasue they got their feelings hurt, they are beyond rational thought. I want people to answer the question and only one or two did. They confirmed what I thought. They are voting McCain out of sheer spite. Fine, we are screwed because children have taken over a small but important voting block in our party. Enjoy McCain.

but if you vote McCain and he wins, expect the Supreme Court to go hard right. I do not want to hear one complaint from any hardcore Hillary supporter if Roe v Wade is demolished and we are in Iraq/Iran. Not one complaint.

any Obama fans who didn't want to allow Democrats in all of the states a chance to vote.

Not one complaint.

If some of you think Obama can win without a unified party, that's up to you.

But don't come crying to me if he loses in a close election.

No one is denied the chance to vote. That argument is bogus.

And you wonder why Obama fans get nasty?

from Clinton supporters basically saying "Ok Obama people, what are you going to do to get me to vote for Obama".

My answer is "nothing". If you vote McCain, you need to leave this website and never come back. If you don't vote for the Dem, you're just as bad.

I won't beg for a vote from someone that is holding it hostage. That's not democracy. If you can't distinguish what is better for the country you shouldn't be voting anyway. That's why there are age limits.

You people don't want all of the votes counted .. you don't want to give voters in all states a right to vote in this primary .. you demand to end things, yet write "that's not democracy"?

Now I've heard everything.

believe that if HRC got trounced in Florida she would want those votes counted. I think not.

surrender the nomination to Obama on a silver platter weeks and weeks ago.

You don't feel the people in North Carolina or Indiana should have been allowed to vote.

You don't feel the people in Kentucky and Oregon and additional states should be allowed to vote.

This is making you all furious.

Allowing the people to vote is democracy joe"progressive".

You obviously love democracy based on your own terms -- your own definition -- your own guidelines.

That's what I'm talking about.

And that's why I'm calling you on the hypocrisy.

naturally.

I almost didn't respond because your argument is so very weak. Question: Will you support Obama if he is the nominee? I'll give you a few minutes before the crickets come out.

that I plan on voting for the Democratic nominee.

Now then, since I addressed your question, let's see if you can address mine.

And that's how are you able to praise democracy, considering you're all in favor of shutting it down when it comes to stopping the vote in favor of your candidate?

The "hurting the party" answer doesn't wash, because if you supported democracy, you would be in favor or allowing the process to play out.

So you tell me how you value democracy when you want to stop the vote.

It was a defection thread. Secondly, a candidate dropping out isn't preventing people to vote. Do you accuse John Edwards of thwarting democracy? I didn't think so. I probably don't need to explain to you the difference in a primary and general election and pleading for a candidate to drop out when there is no chance of winning vs. stopping a vote count in Florida in 2000 is a big difference.

yes or no Anything else is avoidance.

at this point. She isn't doing it for the voters she is doing it to feed her own ego just as Nader did.

What is this "You don't feel the people in Kentucky and Oregon and additional states should be allowed to vote" silliness. What's stopping them from voting? Have they shut down the primaries in those states? I think not.

Have you ever voted in a primary before? Kerry was the presumptive nominee in '04, and the states who hadn't voted yet were still "allowed to vote." There were about 20 of them.

This whole premise of "you won't allow certain states to vote if Obama is the nominee" that I see over and over again is merely indicative of a lack of understanding of the process.

I keep seeing that "not allowed to vote" nonsense and it just makes me crazy. Either it's their first primary or they've never participated in a primary before. Oy!

play fair and don't attack each other...then let it go until the last primary.

Obama IS the devil!

:sarcasm:

better than McCain.

I'd do it as a nice little "fuck you" to the white Joe Progressives who decided it was expedient to turn woman against woman this campaign cycle, and agree to seeing the first viable female candidate and her supporters depicted as a racist bitches in order to promote the first viable African-descended male's candidacy.

vote in this country but are somehow immune to McCain policies. Where do you live, I want to move there.

5 maybe 10? your post is condescending bullshit. thankfully, i am smart enough to know no one would pay such a stupid person to represent obama's campaign. However if this kind of post was officially from his campaign, i would have just sat and refrained from voting this November.

such. I think most HRC supporters are well reasoned people. However, national polling indicates 50% more HRC supporters won't support Obama vs. Obama supporters crossing over if HRC won. I want to know what these people are thinking. If HRC won I would be asking the same of Obama defectors.

learn how to read a study/statistic before you post utter shit

they refused to answer. BTW, I have a PhD and have taken more statistics courses than I would care to, but thanks for the tip.

to acknowledge the weaknesses of a study/poll/statistics

I like trend analysis better. The trend is HRC is losing and she is bleeding SD's.

believe in?

nice work. :puke:

The statistics or polling are only a glimpse of something we are predicting. If 20% of HRC voters say they won't cross over, that might only truly represent 8%. If 20% rises to 30%, that would be an alarming trend but it might only mean 9% in reality.

The thread was much more simplistic but it is easier to debate statistics than to answer the question which is why would you vote for McCain? It was only addressed to those that claim they will do so. I realize that the vast majority of HRC supporters will be on board. I was curious as to the mindframe of those that are jumping ship.

that doesnt even exist.

at this site-I see the thread is now gone but trust me-it was there http://208.68.175.86/discussion/showthread.php?t=10041

here is the DU discussion thread with some nice quotes;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5881631#5881763

that's why I posted the DU thread on edit with as I said some juicy quotes from said thread

I've never known any group of people so desperate to alienate antoher group than Obama supporters here.

If you want to overturn Roe v Wade be my guest. If you're fine with more soldiers dying in Iraq but you want to protest the fact Clinton lost , so be it. If you were insulted on a MESSAGE BOARD and you want revenge, go for it.

I don't give a fuck what you do . After reading the filth over at Taylor Marsh and Hillary is 44, I'm just glad Clinton is NEVER going to be President. EVER.

That little scare tactic won't get you too far.

Is it because good women, REAL women, REAL feminists vote for Obama?

quite a bit.

HC's infamous female demo is older; approaching menopause or past it. We took all the grief for female causes that younger women don't seem to want to fight to keep.

Obama has said things in smaller venues that make me seriously doubt his commitment to Roe v. Wade. He has also voted to continue funding the war which doesn't exactly send a signal that he wants to end it as far as I'm concerned.

my butt off for HRC if she won. I don't know how someone could want McCain just to settle a score.

Its really hard for some people to have been so emotionally invested in a candidate that has almost no chance to win the nomination. Not to mention that they now have to side with the candidate they for so long perceived as the enemy. If time heals all wounds, perhaps just a little patience is all that is needed.

is starting to hurt our candidate in the fall. It is time to pack up the tents and kick sand on the camp fire. If Obama were in HRC's shoes I would be urging him to do the same.

The nationwide polls certainly haven't shown this to be having much impact. If anything his poll numbers have been on the rise which suggest it might be helping him for the moment.

I agree that if the party is still divided in the fall, it would be a serious problem. But for the moment, I think it allows him to hold on to the media attention in a positive, campaigning fashion. This isn't proving to be a bad situation for him for the time being.

Her online supporters, many of them, are beating that drum. Regular voters in the real world who are strong supporters will vote Democratic. Regular Democratic voters who are just voting, as opposed to strong supporters, will vote Democratic, as usual. Reagan Democrats mostly will vote McCain no matter who they are voting for in the primary. All that said, I think the vast majority of Clinton primary voters will organize behind the nominee and vote Democratic. It's mainly bluster, this voting McCain stuff - on both sides.

... where they explicitly threaten party defection.

Clinton Supporters Send Last-Ditch Obama Attack Emails to Supers

In one exchange, Donna Brazille, Al Gore's campaign manager and a stalwart of the Democratic Party, responded with frustration to a writer's threats of defection. "Honestly, this is the 9th email today," she wrote before 8:00 pm. "So I believe you're ready to not only destroy Roe versus Wade, voting rights, civil liberties and civil rights. Perhaps adding trillions more to the deficits through non-stop tax cuts to the wealthy and 100 more years in Iraq. Yes, please join Rush and McCain asap. The train has left. Catch it."

This kind of thing makes Nader voters seem rational.

But I doubt it's much out in the real world as online in terms of who is doing it.

and far fewer that they would vote for McCain.

If Clinton had the nomination, we'd see 20 times as many "defecters".


But, to your question - picking Richardson might be enough to make me consider not voting. As a gay man, I'm already wary about Obama. Richardson, who called gays "maricones" and said he considers homosexuality a choice, would do nothing to alleviate my concerns.

At least not the ones on this DU board.