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Are you okay with Roe v. Wade being overturned if Hillary Clinton doesn't win the nomination?

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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:37 PM
Original message
Are you okay with Roe v. Wade being overturned if Hillary Clinton doesn't win the nomination?
John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench. Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.


Source:

Click on "Human Dignity & the Sanctity of Life" at
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. What makes you think Roe v. Wade will be overturned WHEN Hillary doesn't win the nomination?
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. The question is for those who...
Edited on Sat May-10-08 08:42 PM by Boojatta
say they won't vote in the general election if Hillary Clinton isn't the Democratic nominee.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Ah... now I see.
Agree there. A Democratic win is a necessity.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:43 PM
Original message
Gotcha.
As for me, I'm a yellow dog Democrat. You got a "D" after your name, I will vote for you, even if I don't like you, just because I know I will like the Republican even less.
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lojasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. Wording sound like you don't think Obama can win.
Obama will clean McCain's clock.
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. Obama's got you covered.
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't understand
How can Senator McCain have a say on overturning Roe vs. Wade? I mean, sure he has an opinion, but I don't see that having much of an influence.
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Supreme court nominations.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. If Clinton supporters decide to vote for McCain because they're mad at Obama,
then it might not be "Senator" McCain when the next Supreme Court Justice needs to be replaced.
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. The OP states that he would nominate Supreme court justices that would work to overturn it.
Sounds like influence to me.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. McCain said within the last two weeks that if he were elected
he would nominate judges like Scalia and Roberts.

That's all I need to know, I will vote for our Democratic nominee.
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Exactly.
Whether Clinton or Obama, my choice for president is clear. No way in hell would I vote for McCain after statements like that.

I just can't comprehend supporters of either Dem candidates that say that they would vote for McCain if their candidate doesn't become the nominee. Especially Clinton supporters because of this particular issue.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
43. Obama Would Have Voted to Confirm Roberts If An Advisor Hadn't Stopped Him
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Justices Stevens and Ginsburg
will likely retire in the next 4-8 years. McCain would be the person putting up replacements if he's president. That would substantially change the makeup of the court.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. Your question is based on a huge fallacy: that Clinton is necessary
in order to win the general electon.

I believe she cannot win that, while Obama can definitely do so!
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. It depends on how her supporters react to her not winning the nomination.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Well, as you say, if they don't care about civil rights, then
they should go right ahead and sulk through this critical general election.

That would be a very sad day, however.
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think you meant to say: Hey you pouters that won't vote for Obama!
ROE v WADE = vote for Obama!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. Clinton supporters will also not mind becoming NeoCons......
since that is what McCain is.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's ok, Obama has a 100 rating from NARAL
He'll work out fine.
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bluetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
49. He got a negative rating from NOW IL
Edited on Sat May-10-08 10:35 PM by bluetrain
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. ouch
I'll have to check that out. That must be from missing votes or not voting.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. It was about the "present" votes.
Voting present is a longstanding strategy in the IL state lege and Obama voted that way on a few measures at the request of Planned Parenthood.

NOW went out and lied about Obama's commitment to choice to female voters in IA and NH, despite protests from Planned Parenthood and NARAL.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. NOW is a bunch of political, lying hacks. PP and NARAL of IL gave him excellent ratings.
I'll trust their judgment over NOW's when it comes to reproductive health issues.
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4themind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
16. The judicial nuts won't stop there, how about ""Griswold vs. conneticut"
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
30. I had to Google for Griswold vs Connecticut.Didn't know that one.
At first I thought it had something to do with Chevy Chase.Go figure.:)

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vivid nightingale Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. Great point
McCain would screw it all up.
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. Obama will defeat John McCain, and if you don't support him blood is on your hands.
The election is about the awful war McCain is willing to wage indefinitely. Vote for him or sit out, and blood is on your hands. You better damn well support the Dem nominee even if it's not Hillary.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
44. Thanks for Making My Night
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. The only way that I would be okay with Roe v. Wade being overturned...
is if HRC wins the nomination.

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4_Legs_Good Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
21. The nation will be torn apart if Roe v. Wade is ever overturned
The Repukes know this, they're just using the issue to scare up votes, rediculous utterly.

Besides I expect Obama will be able to appoint many, many young, liberal justices!

Can't wait!!!!

David
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OmahaBlueDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. I've thought about that, and I'm not sure I agree
I agree there will be a lot of sound and fury if and when an overturn comes, and I think all but about 7 states will make abortions difficult to illegal to get. That said, it's not necessarily "easy" to get an abortion now, and birth control has gotten better and cheaper (in relative dollars) since 1973. I don't think it will tear us up. I don't think it will do what the fundies want either; they envision illegal abortion re-popularizing the shotgun wedding and strengthening the nuclear family (their core customer base). I think reality is that women with money (or girls with parents with money) will travel to places where abortion is legal. Women with no money will be butchered, or put babies in dumpsters.

As an aside -- I wish people would stop leaving babies in dumpsters and go back to the days of leaving them on doorsteps. At least they'd have a chance.
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Clear Blue Sky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
34. Good points.
I would assume most states would keep abortion legal, but with varying restrictions.

There is also the issue of stare decisis, meaning that Roe is established case law. Not likely to be overturned.
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OmahaBlueDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. Also, the Roberts court is not given to sweeping rulings
They prefer rulings which are narrow in scope and , preferably, don't apply beyond the involved parties.

That said, I believe South Dakota will stage a direct challenge to Roe next year.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #34
58. You really think Roe won't be overturned if they get their 5th vote?
They will seek out a case to do it. They already tried once but Sandra was the swing vote to uphold.
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Clear Blue Sky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. Good points.
I would assume most states would keep abortion legal, but with varying restrictions.

There is also the issue of stare decisis, meaning that Roe is established case law. Not likely to be overturned.
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
22. Not another one of these ridiculous posts.
Only an idiot would think that the candidate who LOSES the primary would be better in the GE. When you post this kind of nonsense you make yourself look like a fool.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. Obama will be a good candidate
My concern is what some DU members say they will do if Senator Clinton doesn't win the nomination.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. See post #6.
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katmondoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. Oh! Nonesense
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chapel hill dem Donating Member (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
27. I do not have a link yet, but I remember reading that Roe v. Wade CANNOT be overturned
due to the 300+ subsequent cases where the SCOTUS has cited the "right to privacy" established by Roe v. Wade. To overturn Roe, these cases would have to be considered.

caveat: I am not a lawyer.

I will look for links tomorrow.
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bperci108 Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. You might be correct, but...
...with Radical Right justices on the SCOTUS like Thomas, who openly defy the principle of Stare Decisis, an overturn of Roe isn't so far-fetched.

I hope the idolaters on both sides, the Obamaniacs and the Clintonistas, will get over their "i'm taking my ball and going home" attitude and realize that more is at stake here than merely holding their breath and stomping their feet until they get their way.

No matter who wins the nomination, all of the party ranks need to rally and support the nominee and campaign for him/her as if the primaries' rancor didn't occur or matter.

Or else we're in for some VERY dark days ahead...
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RichardRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
48. Stare doesn't always hold, esp at the SCOTUS level...
Edited on Sat May-10-08 10:17 PM by RichardRay
You're thinking of the principle of stare decisis - the full term is "stare decisis et non quieta movere" meaning "stand by decisions and do not move that which is still".


In the United States Supreme Court, the principle of stare decisis is most flexible in constitutional cases:

Stare decisis is usually the wise policy, because in most matters it is more important that the applicable rule of law be settled than that it be settled right.... But in cases involving the Federal Constitution, where correction through legislative action is practically impossible, this Court has often overruled its earlier decisions....

For example, in the years 1946–1992, the U.S. Supreme Court reversed itself in about 130 cases.<5> The U.S. Supreme Court has further explained as follows:

(W)hen convinced of former error, this Court has never felt constrained to follow precedent. In constitutional questions, where correction depends upon amendment, and not upon legislative action, this Court throughout its history has freely exercised its power to reexamine the basis of its constitutional decisions.

Definition of Stare Decisis



If the court goes to a strictly conservative majority R v. W is gone as soon as the Right To Lifer's can get a case before them. The cases for which it stands as precedent are mostly as unpopular with conservative as R v. W; they'd have no problem with overturning every last one of them.



(edited for the link)
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chapel hill dem Donating Member (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #48
54. Thanks for the clarification! I will resume looking for the article after Mother's Day activities.
The theme of the article was that a conservative SCOTUS could easily undo many rulings that define and expand liberty, rather than a single, high profile "shock and awe" attack on Roe.
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Lefty-Taylor Donating Member (310 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
28. I want the STRONGER Democratic candidate, and that is Obama, precisely to save Roe,
and to accomplish other key actions.

One reason I am so adamantly against Hillary is that she would be a TERRIBLE G.E. candidate. We can't afford to flush our chances down the toilet with Hillary.
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bperci108 Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. self-delete
Edited on Sat May-10-08 09:37 PM by bperci108
put it in the wrong place.....duh.


:dunce:
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Ytzak Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
29. Obama is pro choice....
Obama on Abortion
We can find common ground between pro-choice and pro-life. (Apr 2008)
Undecided on whether life begins at conception. (Apr 2008)
Teach teens about abstinence and also about contraception. (Apr 2008)
GovWatch: Obama's "present" votes were a requested strategy. (Feb 2008)
Expand access to contraception; reduce unintended pregnancy. (Feb 2008)
Rated 100% by NARAL on pro-choice votes in 2005, 2006 & 2007. (Jan 2008)
Voted against banning partial birth abortion. (Oct 2007)
Stem cells hold promise to cure 70 major diseases. (Aug 2007)
Trust women to make own decisions on partial-birth abortion. (Apr 2007)
Extend presumption of good faith to abortion protesters. (Oct 2006)
Constitution is a living document; no strict constructionism. (Oct 2006)
Pass the Stem Cell Research Bill. (Jun 2004)
Protect a woman's right to choose. (May 2004)
Supports Roe v. Wade. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
Voted NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)
Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
Sponsored bill providing contraceptives for low-income women. (May 2006)
Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)
Ensure access to and funding for contraception. (Feb 2007)

Besides, she has already lost the nomination.
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chitty Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
32. Roe v. Wade
will NEVER be overturned.

The repigs need that issue to run against.

Can't kill the Boogieman.
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Oh they have another Boogieman or two up their...sleeves...
Gay Marriage for example.
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chitty Donating Member (918 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Yeah....
They have a Boogieman pool I guess.

Roe v. Wade is still the biggest.

Ain't gonna go away.

No more than Dems are gonna get the guns.

Ain't gonna happen.
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EmilyAnne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #36
51. Stem cell research is another boogieman.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
37. I'm hoping to see it preserved if she doesn't win.
What, you think Obama would overturn it?
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
41. I Have No Reason to Believe It Won't Be Overturned In an Obama Presidency
Edited on Sat May-10-08 09:40 PM by Crisco
You can't sign an abortion rights bill "present."

p.s. - it's really going to suck for all those fraternity brothers if they have to start paying child support before they even graduate.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
42. Vote for Obama or bad things will happen. Is that it?
Edited on Sat May-10-08 10:06 PM by Skip Intro

You know, and yours is just the one I decided to repsond to - there are many threads like this going back weeks, the president can't single-handedly place justices on the bench. The Senate must approve of these nominees. And I think we have an excellent chance of recapturing the Senate no matter who wins the nomination.

I am inclined at present to leave the top of the ticket blank, not that I need to declare that here or at anyone's request. I will vote straight Dem downticket. I think McCain will clobber Obama, and with Hillary I think it's only 50/50. It won't matter, however, here in SC because this state will go for McCain. And no, my less than favorable view of Obama, and many of his supporters that I've encountered, and my living in SC do not mean I am a racist. No doubt that will be assumed by some.



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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
45. that would assume obama lost to mccain...
just whos side are you on , friend?


p.s.

obama already won the nomination, move on.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. If I warned about fire, would you conclude that I am against fire fighters...
and that I am on the side of fire?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-10-08 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
50. So it seems we must make sure McCain isn't President.
We do that by voting for the Democratic candidate whether it be Obama or Clinton. Hillary isn't holding the oil lamp for this alone.
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
53. Wrong, it is vital that we do not nominate Clinton since McCain would beat her in a walk.
Obama is more or less new to the game and he is kicking Clinton ass all over the place. What do you think will happen with a seasoned veteran like McCain.
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superkia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-11-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
55. There is money being made from partial birth abortions and I...
really doubt they will ever change the law. This is one of the staple issues that the corrupt system play games with, its used to keep Americans divided as we always seem to be over something. Divide and conquer!

Most people don't believe that the R's and D's with only a few exceptions , are all on the same team playing a game with us and too many Americans fall for this shit. These people who fall for it are known as the sheeple or the enablers to the corrupt being able to takeover our country and destroy our lives. I care too much about my children and grand children to ignore the facts and play the game with my eyes closed, I wish more people cared enough about their families that they would pay attention and actually go out and educate themselves on whats taking place in their country before its too late for our families.
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