How about you Quit trashing Clinton and prove Obama is even faintly Viable instead?

Getting really tiresome, all these, "Clinton played the race card/Lied/Oblitrated Iran/Killed Vince Foster/Was MEAN to Obama!!" threads..

Instead, why don't you CONVINCE us that Obama is a Shining Example of what a Prez should be?

All I see is that same tactic HE Employs, TRASH Clinton, and no need to prove your own candidate's Worth..

Show us! Prove it!

Cut the crap..

Of course the Requisite, "Well, SHE Started it!!" should show up any time, eh?

Pump up your candidate instead of deflating Clinton..

Barack Obama is very likely the nominee of our party.

You might try using that as a starting point.

No matter how many times the Obamacans say it!
So, you think you have accomplished your mission...NOT!

How many States in our Union Obama...?

Yes, Obama...Oregon has Lakes , too!

Hillary is weak, and has lost. If she were to become out nominee, after being so weakened by losing the Primary, she would lose horribly in the GE, give it up.

Interesting.

he is electable, look he's being elected.

If Obama sucks so bad, why cant Hillary beat him?

Obama puts more states in Play than Hillary DOES, sure his pct% are below hers (at the moment) but that doesnt mean A) they wont get better and B)that he could lose a state he was behind in. BUT the main reason he is a better candidate is that he will get more Popular Votes, he will pull in Red Staters in numbers that may not translate to a win BUT will increase his PCT of the Popular Vote. In other words he will win an electoral majority anyhow (Hillary made red states redder meaning she had a smaller plyaing field) But Obama increases McCains Defensive states. The only state I can say for sure thats off the table with obama is Florida, even only hsd a small chance of winning it. He just puts more states into play. Think about it if you were to wake up the morning after the election and told the person who won got 54% of the vote or something, you know that could only be Obama. More voters in play, more states in play, better chance of increasing senate majority.

Just sayin'...

And now, here's Dave with the weather forecast.

Dave?

It seems that there is a faint wind of resentment and bruised ego over the horizon, and a squall of lunacy will be expected to extend into the next few weeks. However, the projected forecast from August to November is bright and sunny. Now on to Myra who has a wonderful story about puppies for you all.

Myra?

Four out of five of these adorable puppies chose Barack Obama as their choice for the Democratic nomination! They're available for adoption, and they're hoping for bright, cheerful, optimistic homes. You don't have to love Obama to love these cute pups!! Now, back to Chuck with the latest on the gerbil who waterskied across Lake Clinton this morning.

Chuck?

:spray:

Amazing how many people aren't aware of the puppy delegation and its importance in this historical (sic) race.

Up next, The RNC has a puppy roast to raise funds for ending abortions in Iraq. We will be live with photo journalism coverage after the break...

where they had been crated up and were awaiting shipment to Beijing,China as a part of Clinton's Global Initiative/cheap-food-for-slave-labor grant. A group of No Kill shelter advocates broke into the Foundation shipping dock to rescue the animals, which are reported now safely outside Arkansas!

Now over to Biff for the latest in sports news!

It's rainin' sidieways!!!

... The cold front has just about blown out it's force across the region, and a sustained period of warmth appears to be coming behind it. We expect seasonably warm temperatures until at least November.

:shrug:

Wait til Obama's "official", I have so many questions, your head will explode.

Panderfest 2008 will begin here.... you'll HAVE to be nice to us :silly:

Go figure.

so why would I trash Obama? His supporters need to realize they can't win without Hillary's supporters, you do know that, right?

You'll need the rest of us too :hi:

the dog and pony show is over...

You can join democrats in lining up behind him now... or take some time to grieve (Fully understand) and join us later

not PRIMARY.

I know it is hard for you to accept this... but the primary is over

over and you need to deal. everyone else has. Unless your objection is something else ...

{yawn}

Currently BArack Obama has 1865.5 delegates.

Currently Hillary Clinton has 1697 delegates.

There are 466.5 delegates remaining.

Barack Obama requires 159 of those.

Of all those who sought the Democratic nomination, this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Barack Obama is the most viable of the lot.

This is why we hold primaries and caucuses.

how does that make Hillary viable? Jesus christ, what better example than that?

The proof is right there to see...Obama is clearly more electable than Clinton...she is the one LOSING TO HIM!

hard-hitting column in Saturday's New York TIMES:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/10/opinion/10herbert.html?em&ex=1210651200&en=c272c0158ceefacf&ei=5087%0A

I started reading that article in a post the other day, was waylaid, and couldn't find it again for the life of me. I was thrilled to see it at your link!

:hi:

Howzit going? :hug:

It's going well. I hope it's good your way and that you are in the first weeks of a good spring season.

I have posted here that despite his declarations to the the contrary I hope Senator Biden will reconsider and possiby take a Cabinet post. Supreme Court. Vice President. Anything that will propel a strong, clear, expert sensibility onto public service at that high level.

I remain a fan and would welcome Biden in any role he chooses to play.

want the VP slot or a cabinet post, "they always say yes.".

That's my thinking, too. Regardless of how much you may THINK you don't want it, being offered such a position must be a pretty heady experience - it'd be tough to say no. And I'm with you -- whatever role he has I'm fine with, as long as that's what he wants.

Thanks for your kind words about my guy!

Speaking of which, I see YOUR guy is getting coverage on his poverty message, which is absolutely as it should be. I hope he, too, has a role in the next admin where he can put some of his plans into action on a grander scale.

Also, they are terrified Clinton will rise up and take away their Obama.

...Don't flatter her. The odds of that happening are about the same odds Ron Paul has of rising up and taking away John McCain's nomination.

Sorry you hate the truth so much.

If she loses, it's your fault.

Why are you even still here?

Somebody from Santa Cruz supporting the CORPORATE candidate???

Must be the head of the Young DLCers. I did not know Santa Cruz had such a chapter.

:wtf:

and that's to win. Up to that point it's a conjecture being tested.

So, I'm working on that. It won't get decided here in DU, I'm pretty certain of that! :-)

You sound bitter.

Standing in the kitchen, washing dishes, yawning...and she just doesn't get it.
It's time to go home.

She's laying a big steamer on the couch...and demanding we call it chocolate cake for desert!

How viable does that make your candidate?

.

General Dynamics.

Exalon.

The coal lobby.

They don't want to hear it, either.

presumptive nominee.

Curiously... I don't feel bad at all.

Must be the Kool-Aid.

:evilgrin:

see us through if the worst happens.

Just so you know I am not a Hillary Basher. However; by trade I am a IT Project Manager and my job requires me to think about short term and long term goals. It also requires me to come up with mitigation plans.

Hillary's campaign run has been fraught with blunders since before the first Super Tuesday.

- No Mitigation for if she didn't walk away the winner (Assumption that she had won already).
- Management of money - She has loaned her campaign millions of dollars, and it really didn't benefit the campaign.
- Saying more than once that McCain was more experienced than Obama. (Even if this was the case - she showed lack of responsibility to the Democratic party). NEVER, EVER side with the Republicans.
- She jumped on the Jeremiah Wright non-story (Faux News)
- Gas Tax Holiday - Why would she jump on the McCain bandwagon on this.
- The White Voter comment - totally unnecessary - it the media wanted to report this bullshit -she should have never commented on it.
- Whether you want to admit it or not - Hillary used Republican tactics to attack a fellow Democratic Nominee. If her case was strong she would not have had to resort to these tactics.
- Finally, the people that she chose to surround herself with a team that miscalculated everything.
- Responses to crisis
- Miscalculating everything from the beginning


I like Hillary I just think she put her confidence in the Terry McCauliffs of the world and it hosed her Campaign.

It's all about slamming our nominee.

But I certainly agree that there is a segment of the white population that will not vote for a black person. Ever. No fucking way.

Obama has won the nomination. What the heck are you going to do?

A massive ground force already on the ground where McCain has barely begun to build his. A demoralized Republican party running on horrifically failed policies behind a senile and half crazy old man. 81% of Americans polled thinking the country is crap, and an eloquent, energetic young man who just beat the friggin Clintons of all people advancing a policy of change.

Holy smokes, other than the white people red herring, what do you have that he is NOT viable?

stop it, she's endured sniper fire and everything!

Actually, there is no point in giving you an answer if you don't know by now.

He's winning, barring some highly improbable catastrophe he's the nominee.

Ergo; he's the most viable.

Oh, and he'll wipe the floor with McCain.

I'm collecting posts where folks are claiming Obama can't beat McCain. Would you like to go on record for November?



Meanwhile, if you'd like to know why Obama will cream McCain, I'll be all too happy to give details.

would NEVER vote for Clinton either

Apparently, Hillary didn't expect us to have a wheelbarrow.

;)

Clinton was suppossed to be the "annointed" nominee. She had the Clinton connections, the money, everything going for her. What happened? If she ran such a wonderful campaign this should have never happened.

This leads one to the conclusion that either she ran a terrible campaign, or Obama ran a far superior campaign, or both

In either case, that sure does not provide a shinning example that if she was the nominee she could win the general election, in fact just the opposite

Incidently, the problem with Clinton isn't her campaign tactics, though they don't appear to have helped her, but her vote on the IWR, and her refusal to say it was a mistake.

The first thing you have to do as a presidential candidate is win.

He's won:

*More popular votes--what people normally think of when they think of winning an election.
*More pledged delegates--what REALLY matters.
*More states--showing he has broader appeal.
*More superdelegates--these are what you use to steal an election that you can't win. Unless the winner has them, too.

You'll also need a strong campaign organization. And I truly believe that the Obama campaign makes the Clinton campaign look like those 4 friends you got together to help you win 8th-grade class president. This time last year, how many people didn't even know who Obama was?

Once elected, a president with good ideas needs one thing beyond all others:

The ability to persuade.

There are some that have tried to convince us that being able to persuade and inspire and motivate is somehow "just words".

But that's "just bullshit".

It is crucial to EVERYTHING that a president does. You can have the best ideas in the world, but if you can't get them implemented, what good are they?

All that the President HAS is words. When that call comes at 3am, do you think Hillary is going to jump into a jet plane?

Is McCain?

Or will they call someone else?
The first thing you have to do as a presidential candidate is win.

He's won:

*More popular votes--what people normally think of when they think of winning an election.
*More pledged delegates--what REALLY matters.
*More states--showing he has broader appeal.
*More superdelegates--these are what you use to steal an election that you can't win. Unless the winner has them, too.

You'll also need a strong campaign organization. And I truly believe that the Obama campaign makes the Clinton campaign look like those 4 friends you got together to help you win 8th-grade class president. This time last year, how many people didn't even know who Obama was?

Once elected, a president needs one thing beyond all others:

The ability to persuade.

There are some that have tried to convince us that being able to persuade and inspire and motivate is somehow "just words".

But that's "just bullshit".

It is crucial to EVERYTHING that a president does. You can have the best ideas in the world, but if you can't get them implemented, what good are they?

All that the President HAS is words. When that call comes at 3am, do you think Hillary is going to jump into a jet plane?

Is McCain?

Or will they call someone else?

You do know that when she says she's a "fighter" that she means that metaphorically, right?

Through his ability to persuade, and with the help of the organization he has surrounded himself with, Obama has been able to persuade Americans to give their time, their money, and their votes to his campaign. Millions have voted for him. 1.5 million have sent him money. Thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of Americans volunteers are out there, organizing, canvassing, recruiting, fundraising, phonebanking, driving, sign-making, poll-watching, registering, encouraging, and downright fucking busting their asses to support him.

I personally want a person like that leading the charge on issues that I care about? Don't you?

They've been throwing b.s. about Clinton from the gitgo.....www.attacktimeline.com

There candidate deliberately has no track record to speak of (120 PRESENT votes intentionally instead of making yes/no decisions); never holding meetings for his ONE committee he leads--oversight of NATO?Afthanistan.

obama's another w....an empty suit...created by king-makers to ba a front man.

plus trial law experience.

Minus the hindsight of his absolute mastery of government, would you hire him?

And in any case, Obama's experience coming in exceeds Lincoln's.

I think we're gonna be just fine.

Oh, and "yes/no decisions" are a sign of broken process. "Present" is a way to stall progress, or otherwise call for revision on a piece of legislation. I bet you knew that already, though. Oh, and there are numerous committees involved in oversight, none of which is individually responsible for NATO, or "Afthanistan".

Lincoln, for example. Bush only had a few years in office and the governorship is a weak office in Texas. He had more experience than Jimmy Carter. Teddy Roosevelt had less experience, a few years as an assemblyman, a few years where he changed jobs from Sec of Navy, Governor, VP and the finally president. That he had less years on the national stage and in state office than Obama. Lots of candidates have. And in the few years Obama has been in the Senate, he's done more and passed more legistlation than Hillary and McCain combined. It's stretching to say that a guy with over a decade in the state senate and nearly four years as a senator has a thin resume. Hillary has 7 years as a senator. That's it. Being a First Lady isn't the same as being a state legislator. It doesn't count the way an actual elected office does.

He's never done anything in an executive capacity. McCain apparently was a military "executive" before he became a politician.

Rethugs have screwed up this country beyond belief and we are arguing about whether or not Obama is a viable candidate? He has recieved more votes in a primary than any OTHER Democrat. Ever. Correct me if I am wrong but there have been record turnouts across the country. Hillary has come in second so far and has done quite well herself but Obama will be our nominee. They have both trashed each other, its called a PRIMARY last time I looked, not a spelling bee or time to hold hands. The most contested primary ever in modern politics in the Uinted States. Time to stop arguing and crying and yelling. Time for action. Don't ever forget: McCain is the enemy.

I've seen dozens try and you remain willfully ignorant. On purpose.

Besides, why do your research for you? If you go look at his legislative record in Illinois, you'd know just about everything you need to know.

So this is little more than a fools errand, isn't it?

She still loses by every metric known except hubris and deception. Live with it.

But both candidates are a helluva lot more than faintly viable. He, on the basis of his beating her which is inevitable, is more viable than she is. But would they both beat McCain? Yeah, most likely. Either one of them have the edge. She's polarizing and McCain would love to run against her because the RW would come out just to vote against her they hate her so much, while Obama might have trouble getting some Independents from McCain and maybe even some white Dems, but I think most of that is all bullshit. In the end, he'd get most of the people who voted for her in the primary season, exit polls exaggerate his troubles, as most of her base would vote for him. Only the hardest of the hardcore people for either candidate would not vote for the other one, the ones who have an almost cultish devotion to both of their personalities. In the end, that isn't all that many Dems.

seeing as its already over.

Is she that person that ran for President but lost in the Primary. I can't remember.

:spray::rofl:

Yes she is!!!

:rofl:

:toast:

start helping to win the race in front of us...if you care anything about this country that would be a much more productive use of your time...

kitchen sink method that Hillary came out with at the very beginning. He has been pretty gentle with her actually.

Why don't YOU listen to what the man says. That was enough for us. I didn't need someone else to break it down for me. Do your own homework and be prepared to vote DEMOCRATIC in November. Believe me, if your candidate of choice were to somehow pull it off and become the nominee, I'd vote for her and NO, I don't like her. But she's better than McCain!

You either shape up or ship out.

You want proof? I got proof: Clinton lost the election.

And here's one more, he isn't stooping to Hill's level.

Which face at the top of the page belongs to you?

:rofl:

He proved he is viable by winning the nomination.

That's why we have a nomination process after all.

That's why we don't nominate candidates based on who can tell the best stories and who hires the least principled lawyers.

It is about the delegates, period.

Get over it. Or not. Doesn't matter to me either way. I'm ignoring you from now on anyway.

...will NOT make the question you DIDN'T answer go away

He's put huge effort into voter registration. He will fight voter suppression instead of engaging in it.

n/t

The People have spoken.

And if you can't see what so many millions are so excited about --- in the character, wisdom, and depth of the man, there is nothing I can say to convince you.

And BTW, good point on not bashing Hillary anymore - I agree. Would you be willing to take the same pledge on Obama?

Unity is a shared responsibility.

Hardly a decisive measure, and Obama has plenty that he has to prove. A three-year senator who's never run anything.

Clinton went into this thinng as the inevitable nominee and here we are today with Obama the nominee. rnough said.

You've already made up your mind, and you're just as bad of a bomb-tosser as the people you're talking about in your OP.

:) The fact is ... They don't have a viable argument!

but in my opinion, it is important to elect a Democrat. Sen. Clinton has lost. Voters make a candidate electable-so vote for the Democrat-Obama. I would think Roe vs. Wade would be all the motivation needed. If you think McCain won't put pro-life judges on the Supreme Court then you don't know McCain.

"...ANYTHING intelligent from these Obamacans".

the fact is you are full of shit to claim i am a republican or any other person on this board is with out proof....

you got any proof i am?......

:) The fact is ... They don't have a viable argument!K&R!

You never post anything yourself but lame hitjobs and rants that make people question your sanity.

So in other words...

hillary has`t anything left to offer

1) Senator Obama is already ahead in the projected GE popular vote.

Projected Popular Vote:
Obama – 57,782,953 (45.6%)
McCain – 55,921,638 (44.1%)
Undecided/Other – 13,016,409 (10.3%)



2) Senator Obama's poll averages are comparable to Democratic candidates from the last four elections, and he's still in the primary stage of his campaign.

Comparison of Poll-Averages:
2008 Obama – 45.1%
2004 Kerry – 46.5% (Final)
2000 Gore – 46.1% (Final)
1996 Clinton – 48.0% (Final)
1992 Clinton – 42.1% (Final)

3) Senator Obama's highly probable projected electoral votes (polls > 10%) are stronger than McCain's.

Highly Probable Electoral Votes:
Obama – 135 (25.1%)
McCain – 97 (18.0%)

4) Senator Obama has outraised Senator McCain by more than 3 to 1.

Total Contributions Through March, 2008:
Obama - $234,745,081
McCain - $76,691,826
(Source: http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.php )

Link to my spreadsheet: http://www.box.net/shared/3inueoz4sw

(poll source summary: electoral-vote.com; multiple poll sources)

I could go on ...

to actually acknowledge that their original question was answered.

But ScaryBlackMan(tm) is sworn to use his powers for good. No need to fear ScaryBlackMan(tm).

you finally earned a spot... #15

Nor do I see anyone deflating her. Opponent is McCain now.

at all or the word racism becomes the new "All you base are belong to us1!!11"

I'm not sure which at this point. :eyes:

is that I seriously doubt that anyone could convince you at this point. There comes a point where you've become so maligned against something or someone that no matter of "convincing" is going to change your mind, so you'll forgive me if I focus on people who I don't see as a lost cause.

I agree that this is pretty much a done deal and Obama supporters should be focused on moving forward against McCain. That's essentially what Obama has been doing for the last week.

Cuz as it turns out they don't even *want* our votes.

Witnesseth:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5934878

not a whole hella lot

its over. He won. We dont have to prove anything at this point.

So let me get this straight. You want to attack us, but we can't attack you.

Is that right? Poor baby can dish it out but can't take it? What are you going to do, go crying to Mama?

It's always been that way around here.

If all the Obama supporters and all the Hillary supporters and all the Kucinich supporters and all the Edwards supporters work for him, donate to him, and vote for him, he will kick McCain's ass into the next century.

Anyone who says they won't do that shouldn't be posting on this board.

Also, it's not "trashing" if it's all based on FACTS. That's just telling the damn truth.