It's not the lying so much as the lack of respect.

Politicians lie and spin. I'm used to that so what Hillary and her minions are doing in that respect doesn't bother me so much. What does piss me the Hell off is the lack of respect she and her cronies show all of us when they change the spin day after day.

Is it the pledged delegates who really matter like Hillary said in January?

Is it the super delegates who should call this like she said in February?

Is it the popular vote that counts as she stated in March?

Or is it the geographical size of the states that voted for her like she claimed in April?

Maybe the problem is that we don't have a non-representational system like the repubs as she claimed a couple of weeks ago.

Perhaps we should just let those hard working white Americans without a college education decide this like she suggested last week.

Should Michigan and Florida be excluded from the process like she wanted in December or should we be brought in like she wants now?

Now she wants to claim that West Virginia should be seen as the crucial test for who can be elected in November. A state with with 5 electoral votes and almost no minority representation should be the bellwether for this entire country? That is seriously the latest spin her more slavish disciples are trying to pass off as good politics today.

These aren't goalposts being moved, they're farts in the wind. They stink to high heaven when they come out but disappear with the next small political breeze.

Seriously, it is a complete lack of respect to all of us, Hillary supporters included, to have to listen to to these constant changes in what really matters to the Hillary camp. How must her supporters really feel having to change their minds on what counts each day as another brainfart idea gets wafted under their noses? It must be Hell not even being able to frown before trying to tell the world they're smelling cake.

So go ahead and lie to us, Hill, just try to give us some small amount of respect when you do it and come up with some spin you can hold on to for a week or two. Your spinning so much I'm getting sick.

:thumbsup:

It's time to retire them. :)

fighting for giving people a break with the gas tax, knowing all along it would be vetoed, and that the economists were totally against it. Yet, she was willing to give people false hope, just to gain some more votes. That's cruel.

Sadly, there are so many I would probably run out of room before mentioning them all.

apparently holds the electorate in.

They usually don't change their story with each telling. It reminds me of how every time we heard a rational for invading Iraq it was somewhat different.

I guess that means that everyone just agrees with this thread and there's no need to comment further. :shrug:

Ever since IN and NC.

I expect them to be in full force tommorow however the war is pretty much over.

Everyone knows the nominee is chosen by the number of delegates.

Obama knew this, and he fashioned his entire campaign around the goal of getting the most delegates... because that is the only metric that matters.

She can talk all the craziness she wants, but... IT'S THE DELEGATES, STUPID!

Originally it was all talk about Delegates, than it moved to popular vote when she knew she'd never catch up. Now that metric is gone electability is the key. So she cherry picks congressional districts she won.

because who wins a state or a congressional district or whatever in the primary doesn't mean that person will do the same in the general. And she knows it.

I don't think she ever entertained the idea she might lose. I don't think it ever crossed her mind. Reality of this will take a long time to set in for her. 17 months on the trail and 14 hours a day repeating the same thing must wear on you.

I'd feel sorry for her but she's been awful the past two months.

She just wasn't counting on her opponent scoring a royal flush on the turn.

In all honesty she had 4 of a kind and doesn't know how to put them down because its still a great hand.

Obama's Inability to Hire Good Help Rears Its Head … Again

May 12, 2008 12:28 PM

We started covering Sen. Barack Obama's inability to hire good staffers in June 2007, when he blamed staffers for some opposition research trying to link Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, to outsourcing in India; for injecting some venom in the David Geffen/Hillary Clinton fight; and for missing an event with firefighters in New Hampshire.

In December, we noted again that Obama was blaming the answers on a 1996 questionnaire on a staffer; and was blaming his touring with "cured" ex-gay gospel singer Donnie McClurkin (which antagonized gays and lesbians) on bad vetting by his staff.

Those five buck-passing incidents were apparently not enough.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/obamas-inabilit.html?cid=114298798#comment-114298798

n/t

think harder.

n/t

Sounds like I'm becoming part of her favorite demographic.

I thought you were an intellectually lazy lemming nodding your head at the talking points as you vilify and HATE a progressive, intelligent powerful NY Senator with right-wing made-up "truthiness."

But, perhaps if you are willing to open your mind and see the error of your ways--perhaps I misjudged you.

Please tell me what progressive means to you because in my book NEITHER of these two is progressive.

As for the rest of it, you've missed MY point. I'm sick of the changing spin each day just to justify a failed campaign. It's downright disrespectful to push that kind of bullshit to the American people and ask that they buy it every time. I mean when they started using physical state size as a standard for taking the nomination, did you really think they had a good argument?

Please, try to answer that one honestly.

No. I did not miss your point. And again you failed to see the bigger picture. Clinton was responding to Obama's argument to the SD's when he kept saying early on, "by every standard, I win." That has been Obama's mantra since this started.

She was responding to his argument: No, not every standard
not the popular vote
not the big states
not the states you need to win in the general.
----
Progressive: Senator Clinton supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Trust for Historic Preservation 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Children's Defense Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Organization for Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 91 percent in 2006.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 100 percent in 2005

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 100 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Public Health Association 80 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 84 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Worker 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 88 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of Government Employees 83 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 100 percent in 2005.

According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 80 percent of the Senators.

According to the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on social policy issues than 83 percent of the Senators.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Alliance for Retired Americans 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 92 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Bread for the World 100 percent in 2003-2004.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Partnership for the Homeless 100 percent in 2003-2004.
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can...

She was promoting universal coverage before it was cool. Furthermore she helped to create the SCHIP program. And most importantly she was dead on in the debate the other week where she said political will was the most important thing needed to push health care reform through and we know without a doubt she has that.

She has fougt unrelentingly for a woman's right to choose as well as women's rights both domestically and abroad

Create a Strategic Energy Fund - Hillary has proposed a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels. Hillary's proposal would give oil companies a choice: invest in renewable energy or pay into the fund. Hillary's proposal would also eliminate oil company tax breaks and make sure that oil companies pay their fair share for drilling on public lands. Instead of sending billions of dollars to the Middle East for their oil, Hillary's proposal will create a new clean energy industry in America and create tens of thousands of jobs here.

Champion a Market-Based "Cap and Trade" Approach - Hillary supports a market-based, cap and trade approach to reducing carbon emissions and fight global warming. This approach was used successfully to limit sulfur dioxide and reduce levels of acid rain in the 1990s. By capping the amount of emissions in the environment and allowing corporations to buy and sell permits, this approach offers corporations a flexible, cost-efficient method to do their share to reduce emissions and combat global warming. The program will reduce emissions, drive the development of clean technologies, and create a market for projects that store carbon dioxide.

20% Renewable Electricity Standard by 2020 - Hillary believes we need to shift our reliance on high carbon electricity sources to low-carbon electricity sources by investing in renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind. As President, she'll work to require power companies to obtain 20 percent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020.

Make Federal Buildings Carbon Neutral - Hillary believes that the federal government should lead the way in reducing carbon emissions from buildings. Buildings account for 40 percent of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, and the federal government owns or leases more than 500,000. Hillary would require all federal buildings to steadily increase the use of green design principles, energy efficient technologies, and to generate energy on-site from solar and other renewable sources. By 2030, all new federal buildings and major renovations would be carbon neutral, helping to fight global warming and cutting the $5.6 billion that the federal government spends each year on heating, cooling and lighting.

Protecting Against Exposure to Toxic Chemicals - Hillary wants to make the products we use safer, especially for children. There are tens of thousands of chemicals used in the U.S. and hundreds of new chemicals introduced each year, but little health testing is conducted for many of them. Hillary would require chemical companies to prove that new chemicals are safe before they are put on the market, and would set more stringent exposure standards for kids. She would also create a "priority list" of existing chemicals and require testing to make sure they are safe. To improve our understanding of the links between chemicals and diseases like cancer, Hillary would create an "environmental health tracking network" that ties together information about pollution and chronic diseases.

Hillary's Record

In the White House, Hillary led efforts to make adoption easier, to expand early learning and child care, to increase funding for breast cancer research, and to help veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome who had too often been ignored in the past. She helped launch a national campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, which moved children from foster care to adoption more quickly and the number of children who have moved out of foster care into adoption has increased dramatically.

She was instrumental in designing and championing the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance. She battled the big drug companies to force them to test their drugs for children and to make sure all kids get the immunizations they need through the Vaccines for Children Program. Immunization rates dramatically improved after the program launched.

Hillary has been a leading member of the Environment and Public Works Committee since she was elected to the Senate. Today, she chairs the Superfund and Environmental Health Subcommittee and in that capacity has promoted legislation to evaluate and protect against the impact of environmental pollutants on people's health and clean up toxic waste.

Global warming and Clean Air
Spoken out forcefully about the need to tackle global warming in hearings, speeches, rallies and on the Senate floor and co-sponsored "cap and trade" legislation.
Worked to reduce air pollution that causes asthma and other respiratory diseases by writing and helping to pass new laws to clean up exhaust from school buses, and other diesel-powered equipment.
Supported legislation to reduce pollution from power plants, including harmful emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury, and carbon dioxide - emissions that contribute to poor air quality, smog, acid rain, global warming, and mercury contamination of fish.
Aggressively fought the Bush Administration's ill-advised attempts to weaken clean air laws.

Improving Water Quality and Protecting Drinking Water
Helped to overturn the Bush Administration's attempt to allow more arsenic in drinking water.
Cosponsored legislation to protect lakes, rivers and coastal waters by fighting the spread of destructive invasive species, such as the zebra mussel.
Helped ot pass new clean water laws, including measures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

Protecting Public Lands
Fought oil company efforts to pen the Artic Wildlife Refuge in Alask and Pacific and Atlantic coastal waters to drilling.
Cosponsored the Roadless Area Conservation Act, which prohibits road construction and logging in unspoiled, roadless areas of the National Forest System, and voted for additional funding and manpower to combat forest fires in the west.

Reducing Dangerous Chemicals and Cleaning Up Hazardous Waste
Supported legislation to restore the "polluter pays" principle by reinstating a chemical company fee to fund cleanups of highly contaminated "Superfund" waste sites.
Cosponsored the "kids-Safe Chemical Act," which requires chemical companies to provide health and safety before putting new chemicals in consumer products.
Proposed legislation to create an environmental health tracking network to enable us to better understand the impact of environmental hazards on human health and well-being.

Tackling the Toxic Legacy of 9/11
Pushed for health care benefits for first responders, residents and others whose health has been impacted from breathing the toxic dust and smoke in New York City after 9/11.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/20/134810/677

Hillary Clinton co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977. In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom she had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million, and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Clinton became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years. Bill appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year, where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.

Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992, where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.

And a bit of stuff from the White House years:

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage. She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare. She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.

The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.<124> She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.<125> She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.<43> The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.<43> Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.<43> In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.<43> As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),<126> Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),<127> and Children and Adolescents (2000),<128> and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)<129> and Philanthropy (1999).<130>

Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

"...Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries..."

More:
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/israe...
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/darfu...


The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
easures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

HILLARY'S EXPERIENCE ON THE WORLD STAGE:

Her historic speech at the UN Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing in 1995 not only galvanized women around the world, it helped spawn a movement that led to advances politically, legally, economically, and socially for women in many countries over the next decade. Among other initiatives, she spearheaded the Clinton Administration's efforts to combat the global crisis of human trafficking. She persuaded the First Ladies of the Americas to use their collective power to eradicate measles and improve girls' education throughout the western Hemisphere. And she is widely credited with helping women in Kuwait finally win the right to vote.

As First Lady and now as a two-term senator who represents the most ethnically diverse state in the nation and who sits on the Armed Services Committee, Hillary Clinton has become a fixture on international issues over the past 15 years. She has traveled to more than 80 countries, going from barrios to rural villages to meetings with heads of state. She has consulted with dozens of world leaders - Nelson Mandela, King Abdullah, Tony Blair among them -- on matters as diverse as America and NATO's roles in Kosovo, eradicating poverty in the Third World, and the plight of women living under the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Today, she is one of the most influential voices in the world on human rights, democracy, and the promotion of a "new internationalism" in foreign affairs that calls for a balanced use of military force, diplomacy, and social development to strengthen American interests and security globally.

While American First Ladies historically have made great (and often overlooked) contributions to our nation, Hillary Clinton's wide-ranging experience on international issues as First Lady is unprecedented. Indeed, she is the only First Lady to have delivered foreign policy addresses at major gatherings of the United Nations, the World Bank, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the World Economic Forum.
Perry Logan

I know it kills you to find any good in her because you have so dehumanized her. But, she is a progressive Senator who has fought for civil rights, children's rights, rights of minorities her career. She deserves better.

Progressives don't vote for wars that bankrupt the country. Progressives don't vote against banning land mines. Progressives don't pander to people with gax tax schemes just to grub for a few votes at the expense of our future. Neither candidate qualifies as progressive, only centrists.

But I have not demonized her as you say. I have watched her in action and made a decision based on her constant show of disrespect for the average citizen. You may think that she deserves better but I think the rest of us deserve better from her.

Lastly, she argued that a state like Alaska was more important than a state like New York, strictly because it was a larger land mass. Are you agreeing with that or are you on to her latest justification? Are we supposed to just forget each spin cycle that comes from her camp at the end of the day in preparation for the new one that's bound to come out tomorrow?

or even try. Cover your ears shut your eyes and shout lalalalalal to avoid learning, to attempt to see reality, to stop the unreasonable hatred.

I'm not specifically saying that Hillary isn't a progressive, I'm saying neither is, but you're too caught up in being the professional victim, like your candidate, to get that.

So very sad.

have you heard the names Ickes, Wolfson, Penn, and McAuliffe before?

When she blew the one about the gas tax holiday, thinking we were all idiots, and most people saw it for the stinky fart in the face it was.

Sorry Hillary, but many of us are much smarter than that.

Just another example of the lack of respect she has for us.

corporations? How stupid are we to think that the corporations who are raking in BILLIONS on the backs of the little guy could pay their own damn taxes? What the hell were we thinking?

How foolish to suggest such a thing.

When did we--as democrats--jump the shark? At what point are we favoring the oil compaines over the little guy? HOw far will YOU sink to favor your candidate?

Or did you not hear about her saying that it would never pass bush's* veto (like many of us here had already said) as soon as Indiana's primary was over?

Good progressive there.

in order to further our addiction to gasoline and the attendant destruction of our environment, cost the national treasury billions and risk hundreds of thousands of construction jobs?

There was no chance in hell that the "windfall profits tax" idea was going anywhere. She knew it; why didn't those of you supporting her at any cost?

This was a blatant pander, and designed to fool desperate people into thinking she was interested in helping them, not just getting their support and fulfilling her personal ambitions.

I couldn't have guessed in a million years that you would use such witty recourse to dismantle my entire post like that.

You are the master.

Or maybe even "I'm rubber and you're glue!" I'll stun them at my local elitists MENSA meeting.

BTW...I was just joking with you.

community.

It might provide you an education.

Give it a rest. Your cardboard messiah hired an ex-gay clown to pander to his bigot base and you ate it up.

But that doesn't matter, does it? So what if Clinton put bigotry against us on the books, right?

I hated the McClurkin deal, but that doesn't matter because Obama is my messiah, I suppose.

Your post suggests a person too intellectually lazy to actually learn the positions of his candidate. Instead he just grabs the one that seems popular at the moment and attacks anyone who takes the time to find out the truth.

Very sad, but then not that uncommon.

don't care. O is like god; he gets all the credit and none of the blame.

I'm talking about the lack of respect Hillary shows in constantly changing the rules of the game as though we were all just vacuous morons unable to remember what she said yesterday. Can you respond to that?