Hillary group claims Dean allowed "sexism" in the race...ties it to the FL and MI votes.

This is covered by Joan Vennochi at the Boston Globe, and Jake Tapper says they are playing the victim.

I find it sickening to even suggest that Howard Dean has anything to do with any so-called "sexism" that surrounds this race. It is just pathetic. It reeks of desperation. It is infuriating. Hillary Clinton is not losing because she is a woman. That has nothing to do with it. To combine it in the same paragraph with FL and MI reeks of threats to the chairman.

First Joan Vennochi does get it right, then she gets it wrong.

Race, gender, and politics

She speaks of a group of women who met with Dean last week to discuss sexism in the race, and also to insist that FL and MI be counted. Like the two had anything to do with each other?



Wha...aa.tt?

Come on. She is making it sound like Dean and party elders were responsible for the media outrages. That is not true at all.



One has nothing to do with the other. It is manufactured fake outrage.

At Jake Tapper's ABC blog he links to a new website of Clinton supporters. It is called Count the Votes

Then he points out the absurdity of combining the issue of "sexism" and the FL and the MI votes.



The supporters of the wife of a former president are threatening the party with serious consequences in the fall if they do not get their way. They are shamelessly using sexism and rulebreaking to do so.

Is it about the party? Or is it about them?

:thumbsdown:

... so Hillary can lie across the railroad tracks as Poor Nell. Melodrama. It's what she does.
:shrug:

want 'frontsies'. assholes.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

about these people.

Damn you, Howard Dean!

The stakes are very clear, and the Supreme Court is at stakes

If these supporters of Clinton decide not to vote in the GE, or worse vote for mccain, then you have to ask yourself what were they even supporting Clinton for in the first place, since every DEMOCRATIC nominee said they would appoint supreme court justices who support the right to privacy

The delegates to the convention then decide the winner. Or is it to be a pep rally with a pre-determined aganda by the few again. No bring home the troops or get out of NAFTA and the Americans Union plan.

They want to push the primary to the end for the purpose of being a democracy. Or don't you believe it that anymore?

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Have a wonderful weekend! I'll be shoveling horsesh** at my new volunteer job! Beats trying to get people to STOP shoveling it at the DU! No kiddin'!

Peace, love and happiness,

Radio Lady

horse friends are best.

i will take mine out for a good ride this weekend.

best.

I understand it costs thousands of dollars to buy one (these therapy horses are leased, I think...) and the figure they tossed around at a volunteer/staff meeting on Tuesday night was...

$350 for monthly boarding of one privately-owned horse. Not sure that even included food!

Then, there are the people who ride and show horses, and take part in equestrian events in faraway places with strange sounding names.

I'd have to have a much bigger bank account for that to happen! (Maybe some sheik wants me for his harem? Sexual duties are verboten, but I could babysit his grandkids and do the laundry!)

:rofl:

not really mine....but i claim Willy as he is my fav.
belong to my family...several horses are shared.

and yes. cost is factor. shoveling shit and doing other chores is my way to contribute. I would not have it any other way.



Best part of day is watching them play with each other out in the fields.

I went to the Mustang Challenge show a few weeks ago.

500 wild mustangs were give to trainers for 100 days. They worked with them during this time. Wonderful to see the show and what they could do after just a few months.

anyway--......

I don't know that the correct terminology is -- lead or halter train after 100 days or??? Were they able to "break" them?

Years ago, I went to dog shows in Florida and trained my Boston Terrier "Dolly" -- she received a Companion Dog degree. It was one of the proudest moments of my life.

Thanks for your comments, as always. I'm adding you to my Buddy List -- !

RL

:rofl: DUZY!

When she's on your side, it's time for some serious introspection.

for allowing sexism. eeeeeeek

on the side of those attacking Dean over sexism.

then I'll take these threats seriously.

During the 1980s, a British puppet satire show called "Spitting Images" always portrayed Margaret Thatcher as a man who used a urinal. If that isn't sexism I don't know what is. The funny part is Thatcher never screamed sexism. Hillary shouldn't either.

Her campaign and supporters trivialize sexism by saying that DNC rules, agreed to by all candidates are sexist. There is always a new low with this campaign.

BTW - I can see a pattern in other columnists' work. The TPM has gone out on this one.

And, I'm tired of the cry baby talk about counting the votes in MI and FL or that the voters can't make their voices heard... Well guess what the votes were counted and voters made their voices heard. The vote results in MI and FL are talked about more than any other State. They are talked about DAILY, ENDLESSLY, CONSTANTLY, etc. We know the count, we heard their voices.

They just can't get seated at the convention as-is b/c they broke the DNC rules. If Hillary would drop out of the race, it would make it a while lot easier to get those delegations seated in some fashion.

:eyes:

I commented on this in the other thread on the topic, but what a disgraceful, self-important, whiny, it's all about me and fuck the world and its handbasket attitude these self-entitled wretched human beings have.

We've won but we lost every election since 2000 but somehow Dean isn't responsible. Why do we need him at all?

The punishment to Michigan and Florida was outrageous. Punish the leaders of the party who made that decision not the voters.

Only allowing the small states (and conservative ones) pick our primary candidates is unfair and undemocratic. Of-course the primary in Iowa won't be the same as NY, PA, or CA. Primary elections should be all on one day for all candidates a short time before the convention and general election not two years or so. It is too expensive and undemocratic from what I can tell. There is also an effort to destroy the voting power of the big liberal states.

DNC there needs to be change since we can't afford such divisive and expensive elections. I as a liberal democrat object. My interests aren't represented by the way things are run now.

:eyes:

Now he makes a mess in 2008 primary.

If I do recall, we regained of both the House and the Senate... What more do you want? Free ice cream on Fridays?

...on its knees when the Republicans tell it to.

We would have had a control of Congress.

"I as a liberal democrat object. My interests aren't represented by the way things are run now."

The D-L-C is D-E-A-D.

Long live the Democratic Party!

And right now they have the all power and the candidates. There's little liberal about Hillary and Obama. No anti-war or globalism candidate is there?

:rofl:

I want whatever YOU are ingesting.

:crazy:

he supported globalization. He didn't care what they thought. He lost the primary in Iowa and people said it was because of his scream. It was not. It was because he is a globalist and cares only about the elite.

Dean voters were sore from anal probing and
missed the caucus.

:crazy:

:rofl:

3 consecutive posts mangling the facts...

And he became chair in 2005. In 2000 he was Governor of Vermont. Care to explain why it was the Governor of Vermont's fault thay we lost elections in 2000? In 2004 he was running for pres or backing Kerry and other dems. Care to explain how it was his fault we lost then? It was YOUR beloved Terry Mac who devised the punative measures for states that violated DNC rules. And it was hilly top aide, Harold Ickes who voted to enforce those rules this year. Primary elections held on one day are distinctly undemocratic and would push out everyone but very well financed candidates. No Carters or Bill Clintons would ever make it.

And real liberal dems support Dean.

Oh, and he's already announced he's retiring when his term expires early next year. With any luck, we'll see him as Secretary of HHS.

So only the well known candidates get the votes since it would be impossible
to campaign in all the states. That doesn't sound very democratic to me. And
that makes me confused since you claim to be a "liberal democrat". The whole
idea of spreading the primary out is so the candidates can let voters know who
they are. That's why Obama surged ahead of Hillary.

And Howard Dean has done a MARVELOUS job.

I don't like the fact that they spend months in New Hampshire and Iowa yet don't in Illinois, NY, or California. The small conservative states get to choose first. Then the other candidates drop out before the other liberal states get to vote.

The primary being fair to Michigan and Florida as well as New Hampshire and Iowa is the goal is it not?

Marvelous job because his (your) pick is winning?

we've actually have a chance in hell of winning. Assuming the crybaby contingent doesn't fuck it up for us.

Dean was the one who implemented the 50 state solution. The DLC were the ones who only wanted to concentrate on a few key areas and ignore every place else.

BTW, if you dislike the DLC how can you support Senator Clinton? She is the DLC.

Off with the DLC!

Regards

Why does everything have to be so divisive and spun? Sure, all states matter.
This should be visited in the future, but right now the party has to come together
so we can get the repugs out of the White House.

They're not quitting until they tear out a hunk of the Democratic Party to take with them.

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I should leave "your forum" because Howard is a globalist? Sorry the truth hurts.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Howard_Dean_Free_Trade.htm Howard's own words.

"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people." Theodore Roosevelt (a Republican progressive reformer).

"The rules are the rules"

"Move your primary too early, and Michigan will lose half its delegates"

What crazed, Hillary-hating sexist rules-enforcer said that?

Howard Dean, no doubt?

Nope. It was none other than Terry McAuliffe, before the 2004 election.

http://www.americablog.com/2008/03/terry-mcauliffe-sang-different-tune.html

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/10/07/State/Florida_faces_a_prima.shtml

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/25/165935/668/909/503541

Hillary wants to head off criticism from the DNC and SDs about her bigot-pandering and racially-laden divisive comments. So she accuses the DNC of letting Obama get away with "sexism."

I loathed it when Bush/ROve did it, and I loathe it that Hillary is doing it.

I am really tired of being humiliated and embarassed by her actions. She may not mind destroying her own legacy, but I don't like her destroying te image of the Democratic Party, which has stood for equal rights, and now has seen one of its luminaries grovel in the gutter of racial bigotry.

But then, that describes the mental state of the Hillbots as well. :crazy:

he's being attacked. He is the DLC. He supports globalism and the wars.

Here is the opening of one of his speeches from 2003.....

Governor Howard Dean, MD, Speech to California Democratic Party State Convention (Saturday, March 15, 2003)



What I want to know is what in the world so many Democrats are doing supporting the President’s unilateral intervention in Iraq?

What I want to know is what in the world so many Democrats are doing supporting tax cuts, which have bankrupted this country and given us the largest deficit in the history of the United States?

What I want to know is why the Congress is fighting over the patient’s bill of rights? The patient’s bill of rights is a good bill, but not one more person gets health insurance and it’s not 5 cents cheaper.

What I want to know is why the Democrats in Congress aren’t standing up for us joining every other industrialized country on the face of the Earth and having health insurance for every man, woman and child in America.

What I want to know is why so many folks in Congress are voting for the President’s Educations Bill “The No School Board Left Standing Bill” the largest un-funded mandate in the history of our educational system!



Hmmm....yes.....sounds like he supports the Iraq War and Imperialist Globalism... :crazy:

See. I can act crazy too!

changes for workers and human rights. That won't happen and he knows it. We can't do that in America let alone China, etc.

He supports NAFTA and the WTO which he stated before the union guys in Iowa. He thinks it's great. Little he cares about it's failure here in the US taking jobs, lowering our standard of living, etc.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Howard_Dean_Free_Trade.htm

:crazy:

What don't you get.

Do you want him to PRETEND that the
rest of the world doesn't exist?

:crazy:

China don't respect their people or us. They already have what they want.

No I want him to face the disaster NAFTA and the WTO has been to our country over the last ten plus years. It can't be fixed. We should get out of it. Congress controls trade not the President and behind close doors trade people. It's Constitutionally illegal anyway...and doesn't work in our favor...EVER.

That's reality.

but back you go.

crazy is INTERESTING!

I can do without some kinds of it.

:hi:

entitled:
Don't kid yourself, Dean is part of the DLC!!!11!

:rofl:

CRAZY!

Just as well. :hi:

It is MUCH more important for the DNC to maintain its position of authority than it is for he millions of voters in Florida and Michigan to have a say-so in who becomes the Democratic nominee. Right?

If 49 other states tried to move their primaries up, and onbly Rhode Island didn't, then the Obama supporters here would day that only the voters of REhode Island should count.

Yeah, that's fair.

Yeah, that's democratic.

Yeah, that's the way to beat the bitch.

How about the Democratic party members who had no vote? Your hate clouds your judgement.

Calling her a "bitch" is sexism by the way.

She's been called that here too.

...play into one of THE biggest stereotypes: the woman who falsely screams about discrimination.

Way to set the movement back a dozen years, sweeties.

and says it's SEXIST to not be allowed to play, then the second she gets tackled, she screams SEXISM!

A true champion of women would laugh it off and get back in the game.

They do not represent the women I associate with!

they are still in the 80's -
they should be wearing shoulder pads and have big hair.

She needs to say something to them on this issue.

It's too rough to play with the boys. That's what they want from any woman.

Enforcing the rules re MI and FL = misogyny?


Craaazy, man!

vote for Hillary? What ever it was it was an outrage. Shouldn't the leaders of the Democratic Party in Florida and Michigan be asked to leave? They were responsible for negating the Democratic voters of those states in a primary election.

-snip-

Finally this primary season has raised the issues of race and gender to unprecedented prominence. We are extremely proud that the Democratic Party has addressed so forthrightly the issue of racial bias; this profoundly important dialogue, however, has not been matched by similarly substantive dialogue about gender bias, which has been prevalent, virulent, and not confined to the media. In some instances this emphasis is propelling the nation toward a more enlightened view about both race and gender bias. But too often, “the story of women’s suffering has remained untold,” as you so eloquently put it, permitting commentary and remarks that have stunned women by their negativity.
Just as we expect that our leaders will take an immediate and strong stance against racism, we expect that those same leaders will take an immediate and strong stance against sexism. We believe that women Democrats, and even women who vote independent and some women Republicans, will support the party that finds a way to initiate a national dialogue about the issue of gender as we head into the general election. Likewise, we are deeply concerned about the impact that the failure to promptly address this issue is having and will continue to have on the party strength and unity. We are open to discussing any ideas about the role that the DNC could play in this important endeavor, as the members of our group have spent decades helping women achieve more opportunities at every level of society.
As we stressed in the meeting, we are Democrats, whose longstanding commitment to the Democratic Party and its principles is beyond question. We are strongly committed to electing a Democrat to the White House in November and look forward to working with you to successfully meet whatever challenges we face in the coming months and beyond.

With regards,

Massachusetts Democratic Women Leaders
“Every Vote Counts”
www.countthevotes.net

http://countthevotes.net/id1.html

Look at these letters. And by the way...Massachusetts?

http://countthevotes.net/id8.html

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.1
==================



This week is our second quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Whatever you do, do not click the link below!

FL & MI, I think he's doing the best he can to deal with a situation he didn't create and did everything in his power to try to head off.

As for the sexism issue, he didn't create that, either, but IMO he did sit on his ass when the press and then other high-profile Dems engaged in misogynist attacks.

The goons will say what they will say, but I am interested in which high-profile Dems you're referring to. I want to know who they are.

His carrots and his sticks.

.

this man out. He is agenda is murky on purpose?

to say that and not give names.

JJ Jr is the obvious one that comes to mind. Then there was Leahy's and others' call to get out. There is no way that the men of the Democratic party would have gone on national tv and called for a fellow male to drop out of a race where they were that close to the front runner.

Although Obama was smart enough to figure out the horrible back-lash that was brewing as a result of those calls and asked people to publicly cool it, you can't say he didn't benefit from it.

It was mostly reality.

However....Howard Dean, the one they are accusing has said loudly on TV that no one should be asked to drop out.

This is getting stupid. I am sorry, but it is not even an intelligent way to fight.

If HC were a male, that tactic would never have been taken.

:shrug:

dropping out because other members of the opposition wanted them to?

I remember Kucinich being ignored as a serious candidate by both the party and the media. Edwards too.

yet. The primary is decided at the convention by the delegates. If we don't do that then we don't have a party but an oligarchy.

Senator and progressive than Hillary Clinton could ever, ever hope to be. And he didn't call on her to get out. He said he thought that Obama had won and her continuing was pointless, but that it was up to her. And damned straight he would have said the same thing if she were a man. Furthermore, Leahy NEVER went on national TV and made any such comments. He made them in a VPR interview. Way to mangle the truth.

indicate that this is a concerted effort between these groups and the Clinton campaign? Are they actually pushing this tactic themselves and claiming that she is losing because of sexism by the PARTY?

This is disgusting.

To complain that the calls for Hillary to drop out, is the same as saying
sit down and shut up.... give me a break!! Talk about bad excuses. This
makes woman look bad. Have they considered that women who support
Obama are ALSO pro-choice?

This makes me fume. To complain that this endorsement is sexist, is in
itself sexist. What a bunch of hypocrites.

PONY TAIL CARTEL!! I am making *sexist* remarks on purpose today since even things that have nothing whatsoever to do with gender have served to label me such.

Seriously. Can you imagine this mob in charge of the most powerful country in the world? :SHIVERS:

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Oh Geez...I just emptied my list, now I need to start over.

Y'all got your thugs beating up on Hillary supporters and delegates and claiming racism at every turn, hurting the true cause of race relations...Turnabout is fair play. Deal with it.

:crazy:

Ain't gonna, 'cause their "cause" is a load of bullshit.

I disagree very strongly with you on that. Racism is a very serious issue and I could never be friends with someone who calls the cause of better race relations in this country, "a load of bullshit."

Welcome to Ignore.

in 2000.

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install Obama.

Do they not protest too much?

He's a petty little man.

You are not telling the truth but you got me deleted for saying so.
Good job.

You guys are good and very powerful.

The small states get to decide and then they take out the big states to control who wins...a "Republican like globalist" candidate for President.

Nader may be right. We are one big party not two. It's a dog and pony show.

won't get all those votes is what they mean...I think. Actually they should punish and fire the party leaders in Florida and Michigan. Not blame the voters of the party. They had no say.

"I just ask you all this, do you really believe Florida would be getting this kind of treatment if the vote had turned out the other way?"


Oh My Gawd. I can not believe he is implying this..

I would understand this argument if the race was close. At this point he is just dividing the party.

This may be why Edwards and the othere supers are coming in faster now. These kind of statements are not good.

Look, discrimination based on gender is a serious thing most women will experience in their lifetime. It is true that gender has been lampooned throughout this primary as a result of Hillary Clinton's campaign.


what Hillary Clinton has done with it has caused women to turn against Obama and vote based on their anger with the media coverage. They have said he has used race as a wedge when they have been race baiting. They have used women's personal experience with sexism as a wedge that the boys are still just trying to have their way.


The thing is Hillary Clinton nor her official supporters get to talk out of both sides of her face on sexism. Either it is a serious charge whose roots need to be pulled out OR it is the thing women say just to get extra attention. Reducing the serious nature of gains women have made in this way IS A DISGRACE.


This is black mail in its worse form. I don't get my way, I get to make a false accusation against someone based on rage, gender or age. Even if the later clarification clears the accused name, the allegation or the charge remains.

Hillary Clinton, you still need to offer an explanation of your hard working white voter comment. Would you be the president of all the people or just some of the people?

Nancy is against women of power. It just isnt her bag.

women are only the majority of Democratic voters. In most states, only sixty percent of women vote for Hillary. Well, it was 73% in West Virginia, but what's to worry about? Why on earth would Dean listen to the little women?

women should get what they want. It is that simple. If they dont get what they want they will just sit and cry. We've all seen it many times.. So lets get Hillary in her now..

Basically, if Hillary loses women will show Obama....

I mean what kind of bullshit is that?

Really?

You can defend that pathetic diarrhea of the mouth all you want.

"One life with each other
Sister, brother
One life, but we're not the same
We get to carry each other
Carry each other"

If you have all the power you claim why didn't you use it and win the Democratic Primary? Is there anyone you don't blame?

We are being asked to get along. Yet her supporters are blaming the chairman who has done everything he can to be fair.....they are blaming him for "sexism".

There are posts in this thread saying Dean is playing favorites for Obama. It is remaining while I am deleted for saying it is not true.

And we are supposed to come together??

you should be ashamed of yourselves for not recognizing the blatant sexism that Hillary dealt with all through this campaign.

We've spent the last few decades stressing 'don't be racist' more than we stressed 'don't be sexist' so it should come as no surprise that it was acceptable to bash the woman. The trouble with sexism/racism is that people don't know they're doing it unless they're called out and made aware.

Hillary didn't deserve all that hate that was directed at her. Most of the accusations sent her way would have made the swift boaters proud. Somehow it was OK to do it though. I can't tell you how many times I read or heard people talking about how they just hated her, but they never could give a reason that would normally have generated that level of hate. Guess what that was?

What we learned this election period was that sexism trumps racism, and the black guy wins. My guess is, the country will find itself discussing womens issues again, and we'll all become more aware. Since human nature seems to remain fairly consistent, all that means is that a few decades from now, the woman will beat the candidate representing whatever race happens to be the outcast minority that year. After that we'll talk about racism again.

And saying the chairman has allowed sexism is appalling.

She is losing because of who she is, what she stands for, and the fact that the party is ready for change and not just rhetoric.

She was a great campaigner at first, but then she allowed Mark Penn, Harold Ickes, Wolfson, et al to control her dialogue.

It is not because she was a woman. I am a woman, and I saw little sexism, especially none from party leaders.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcdnlNZg2iM BITCH video! watch it then report back. It's worth the view.


IN CASE YOU MISSED LAT NIGHT"S DEBUT>>> Invite you. Enter at your own risk..please try not to cry.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5967548&mesg_id=5967548 BITCH!!!!!!
indimuse (1000+ posts) Wed May-14-08 02:40 PM
Original message
BITCH! BRAV-F*CKING-O!

GO Hillary!! Madame President Hillary!

IF you love OR hate her...you'll get and appreciate this amazing video.

And IF NOT...you know what to do! K&R anyway...

Signature lines are currently turned off due to high traffic.

Just in case someone wants to place guilt by association. Supporters are not members of campaigns.

I repeat: Animal tranquilizer, blow dart, and a net.

:D

in this race. of course there is sexism and there is racism.

Which is just unreal.

i think it's a mistake for the democratic party because we need those states in the GE, and frankly i agree with them that they should have just as much right to have an early primary as any other state.

Tell the national party to butt out, and let freedom reign. That'll wake some folks up who are spouting platitudes here.

We will keep leapfrogging in the next year if that happens.

I care why very much.

The Neo Cons is our party manipulate the process so they lose over and over.

Florida and Michigan losing votes because of party leaders is just insane and undemocratic. Why would anyone want to vote for our candidate?

Senator Feinstein is trying to sneak an amnesty bill into the Iraq war funding bill. That won't impress 80% if the country who are against it.

Our party has become corporate representatives not Democrats. After the election will the borders be open to competely destroying our nationhood and freedoms Democrats? Your Americas Union idea is treasonous and will put another stake in the coffin of democracy.

It's not crazy to worry about this.

and Dean and the party for sexism. The comments are bad as well. Disappointing how many blogs have done this.

http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/2008/05/enraged-about-misogyny-this-ones-for.html

By saying, "Hillary group", you give the impression that she's telling them what to do.

Of course she can ask them not to do so.

However it came from the rightie whackjobs and all the usual suspects, not from Dean or the DNC.

"Meanwhile, former President Carter said Wednesday that delegates from Florida and Michigan should not be counted at the Democratic National Convention because they "disqualified themselves." He warned of a disaster if party insiders try to wrest the nomination from the candidate with the largest number of votes and state victories.

An attempt by so-called Democratic superdelegates to override the popular vote "would be an almost unacceptable thing," Carter told Jay Leno on "The Tonight Show."

If a candidate has a clear edge in votes, state-by-state wins and delegates claimed at caucuses and primaries, "I can't imagine that the superdelegates would go against them," Carter said. "It would be a catastrophe for the party."

Carter's comments came a day after the North Carolina and Indiana primaries, in which Obama padded his delegate lead over Clinton. In the tight race the judgment of superdelegates -- elected officials and party insiders who can vote as they like at the party's August nominating convention -- will almost certainly be decisive.

Carter, a superdelegate, has not expressed a preference in the race but has hinted that he supports Obama."

Ref: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/05/07/mich_dems_settle_on_delegate_seating_plan_to_bring_to_dnc/

First the party messes with Floirda and Michigan and then complain about the outcome at the convention? The Super Delegates have to go. It's not democratic nor is the process helped by them. Carter has always been a disaster in DC. They put him out of power. Go back and build homes for the poor Carter.

.