Dit it ever occur to Obama supporters that Hillary supporters have voted for her because

they think she would have a better chance of winning the GE?

Did it ever occur to O S that H S think she has more experience?

Did it ever occur to you that we think she is more informed about the ways of Washington and would be better at getting things done?

Did it ever occur to you that the public don't know how or what Obama will
change and that worries them?

Did it ever occur to you that some woman want a female president?

Did it ever occur to you that we just love Hillary as much as you love Obama?

Did it ever occur to you that poor working Americans have more faith that Hillary will push for issues they feel are important? I could go on and on but I won't bore you.

DID IT EVER OCCUR TO YOU THAT WE'RE NOT RACIST AND WE HAVE MANY VALID PERSONAL REASONS FOR NOT VOTING FOR OBAMA?

It doesn't seem like it from many posts and comments on DU. I see repeated suggestions that KYians only voted for Hillary because they are racist. I think those posters should be ashamed of themselves. Don't forget you're accusing fellow Democrats of being racist.

GO HILLARY GO!

And she would have the "right" to be "wrong." As have you.

but then - why are all these people voting with such apparent conviction? (And please don't trot out race. that is a two way street. People are voting for Obama because of race too. Especially some white people who are so happy to have such an easy and convenient way to prove to the world they are not racist. Easy and convenient because Obama is a strong and excellent candidate.)

chance of winning the GE, they would adequately fund her campaign.

I realize that Hillary's handling of campaing funds has been called "nearly fraudulent," and despite raising $21million in April, she spent $28million and now does not have funds to pay for advance people to make arrangements for her appearances.

But if Hillary supporters REALLY feel she is the best candidate, then it is THEIR JOB to fund her lavish, "Nearly fraudulent" campaign funds use. It's not OBama's job, the job of OBama's supporters, or the job of the DNC.

It's time to either put up or urge her to get out of the race.

in charge. Allyou points are valid and real, but I want someone completely new.

Just sayin'

Duke

you can do the simplest bit of research on your own. I have faith in you.

You get the point I hope...

28 years MonkeyFunk, 28 years of the same fucking two names...enough is enough :puke:

BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
BUSH
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON
CLINTON

Will you acknowledge that there are many, many Obama supporters here that not only apparently disagree that there is any reason to support Hillary, other than racism? Oh, and of course we are all freepers, and worse...(If there is anything worse)

There are some Clinton supporters who are rabid as well, but not the overwhelming number as in the Obama camp. The vile hatred is outstandingly rampant.

We are intelligent, valid, long time Democrats. Disagreeing with Senator Obama on some issues does not change that.

I do commend you on your statement that the OP points are valid and real. Thank you.

My sexist apologies.

and sexist.

Who isn't?

Hillary can't beat Obama but is a shoe-in for the general as far as we know here in May? How long have you been on earth?

When's your flight back?

are Democrats who realized their candidate just wasn't as successful in this primary race. Those people are Democrats first.

Fail.

They have similar voting records.

CLINTON:

- NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.

- YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.

- YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.

- YES on the Iraq War Resolution.

- Refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge.


OBAMA:

- YES on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.

- NO on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.

- Drafted legislation stating that Congress did not grant President Bush the authority to attack Iran, either through the Kyl-Lieberman amendment or any resolution previously adopted.

- Vigorously opposed the Iraq War and took a public stand against the Iraq War Resolution

- Signed the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge.

Hillary put her own Presidential ambition above the lives being lost in Iraq.

She will have to live with that. But I'll be goddamned if she ever gets my vote again.

You forgot...Obama didn't vote. He even admitted if he had been in congress at the time...he didn't know who he would have voted for.

Yes, they have similar voting records.

By the way, if Biden or the others who voted to let the inspectors in get the VP...will they get your vote? I'll be watching!

like all the other ones. :shrug:

Are you from KY? :rofl: Sorry, couldn't help myself!

That's nice.

:rofl:

I loved your post.

Thanks for speaking your mind.

Peace, love and happiness,

Radio Lady in Oregon

I'm still crying!:cry:

We'll just have to do it on our own.

Maybe I'll have a new on by 2012 :rofl: that I can start training early.

Losing a pet is like losing a child or a spouse. Maybe worse.

Please forgive me.

Radio Lady in Oregon

Similar records, my ass.

I'm a fucking veteran and Hillary has the blood of my brothers and sisters on her hands. All because she wanted to be President. You will never make me believe otherwise.

I did not forget a fucking thing about anyone and the IWR vote. Go try to sell your shit to someone else.

Do you think she ran for president because she has blood on her hands from Iraq? Is it some kind of a confessional booth, the Presidency?

Give me a break.

I'm sorry, you can't convince me of that.

And you have the balls to tell others to educate themselves?

Hillary was one of the most vocal democrats pushing for the IWR. In her infamous speech, in which The Goddess of Peas interrupted Senator Byrd and took away his floor time allotted to his ANTI-WAR speech so that she could shove the IWR down our throats, she proves that she KNEW she was voting for war AND she even laid out the blueprints to being able to use force the same way her husband did.

NO AMOUNT OF DENIAL OR COGNITIVE DISSONANCE AMONGST HER SUPPORTERS WILL EVER CHANGE THESE FACTS.





AND NEVER FORGET THAT SHE DOES NOT CARE IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT SHE VOTED FOR WAR:






If she has something to be done in the name of women, let it be to AVOID AND END WARS, not to push for WAR and MORE WAR. Let it be in the name of better EDUCATION for our children, not a vote for NoChildLeftBehind. Let it be to uphold the CONSTITUTION and not remaining silent on Telecom Immunity. Let it be to reach for true UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE, not a mandatory paycheck to the INSURANCE INDUSTRIES. Let it be to lift up the poor and strengthen our middle class, not to continue the deregulation of banks and bring the likes of GREENSPAN back in the picture.

Hillary voted NO against banning cluster bombs for god sakes. I guess now we know why. She wants to make sure we can obliterate entire populations.


Only the ignorant and willfully blind can call claim that Clinton and Obama have the same voting record. Educate yourself instead of playing the he woulda shoulda coulda mighta DIDN'T vote for WAR or support the neo-con's agenda the way she has.


Or you could just settle for having likeminded dittoheads cheer you on in this thread.

you?

85 out of 86 times on votes related to Iraq war/terror they voted the same.

Ethanol subsidies and "clean coal" research money for his home state. He will have to accept responsibility for that vote and learn from it as he has others.

At least he is educating himself and came into this race with a good history: solid green cred

"Environmentalism is not an upper-income issue, it's not a white issue, it's not a black issue, it's not a South or a North or an East or a West issue. It's an issue that all of us have a stake in," Obama shouted. "And if I can do anything to make sure that not just my daughter but every child in America has green pastures to run in and clean air to breathe and clean water to swim in, then that is something I'm going to work my hardest to make happen."

The climate/energy plan he has released during this campaign is exceptional: http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/10/8/11550/3692

Still the most ridiculous claim of the entire season.

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/votes.htm

Total

voted same 63
voted opposite 2
Obama voted, Clinton did not 1
Clinton voted, Obama did not 17
neither voted 16

IWR
Kyl-Lieberman
NCLB
Bankruptcy Act
Silent on Telcom immunity
No on banning cluster bombs
Yes on banning flag burning
WFRA
FEPA

This is the same woman who interrupted Senator Byrd's anti-war speech to shove the IWR down our throats while Obama was talking about how dumb the war was.


Add her stumping for NAFTA and her campaign manager's pimping in Colombia and I think the pattern becomes pretty clear. Keep your powder dry on the little stuff and vote neo-con on the issues of greatest importance to this country.

NOTHING IDENTICAL ABOUT OBAMA AND THAT DINO.

No cotton candy. No sale.

because that's how often they voted the same.

Looks like you decide what's "important" based on how Hillary voted wrong. That's screwed up.

The 97% of the democratic agenda is going to be upheld by 97% of democratic legislators to begin with.

IT'S THE OTHER THREE PERCENT OF THE VOTES THAT WERE CAST IN FAVOR OF THE NEO-CON AGENDA THAT HAVE KILLED OUR LOVED ONES IN A MANUFACTURED WAR, DESTROYED A SOVEREIGN NATION, PUT OTHER NATIONS AT RISK OF BEING OBLITERATED, KEPT US USING CLUSTER BOMBS THAT DESTROY INNOCENT LIVES, SCREWED OUR CHILDREN'S EDUCATION, MARRIED RELIGION TO POLITICS, GAVE CORPORATIONS BONUSES FOR SENDING JOBS OVERSEAS AND TRAMPLED UPON THE CONSTITUTION.



JFC a little sanity please.

you've been screaming from the start.

If you're not sure about your opinions, don't take it out on me.

Is that how you justify supporting that crap?

I'm obviously very sure about my opinions.

You on the other hand seem to have some issues with reality.

as do thousands of dead US soldiers and innocent Iraqi civilians.

Choosing between Hillary and Obama, of course.

They might just complement each other -- black/white/woman/man. Would that get your panties in a twist?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Radio_Lady/238

they think he would have a better chance of winning the GE?

Did it ever occur to H S that B O think he has better experience?

Did it ever occur to you that we think she is more informed about the ways of Washington and would be better at getting things done?

Did it ever occur to you that the public knows Hillary and that worries them?

Did it ever occur to you that some minorities want a minority president?

Did it ever occur to you that we just love Obama as much as you love Hillary?

Did it ever occur to you that edcuared Americans have more faith that Obama will push for issues they feel are important? I could go on and on but I won't bore you.

DID IT EVER OCCUR TO YOU THAT WE'RE NOT SEXIST AND WE HAVE MANY VALID PERSONAL REASONS FOR NOT VOTING FOR HILLARY?

It doesn't seem like it from many posts and comments on DU. I see repeated suggestions that Oregonians only voted for Obama because they are elitist. I think those posters should be ashamed of themselves. Don't forget you're accusing fellow Democrats of being elitist.

GO OBAMA GO!

I was not trying to compare their reasons for voting...I was trying to show you all that people have good personal reasons for voting for Hillary...right or wrong..is not the point!

The point is people aren't voting for Obama just because they are racist. There have legitimate reasons for voting for Hillary. That's the point so many have missed here.

To say that Obama supporters think that Hillary supporters are all racist. I know a lot of Hillary supporters who think she is the better candidate for reasons un-related to race. However, NPR did a story in which the interviewer did not even mention race. She simply asked the voter who they voted for, and why. Of course, there are a number of voters who brought up the fact that they did not think that the Country was ready for a "colored" President.

YOU ARE A PLAGARIST!

count that anyone who doesn't vote for O is a racist.

(a) yes, those things occurred to us. You love Hillary, believe in her, think she's better than sliced bread, etc.
(b) actually LISTENING to Obama instead of ignoring him will answer your and America's fears of the unknown
(c) Just because someone has Democrat as their party affiliation doesn't mean they cannot be racist. You do know some party history, right?

My question: how will you justify sitting on your hands _after_ Obama is the nominee?

Duke

How do you know whether or not I'll be sitting on my hands? You psychic?

"Barack Obama will win the Democratic nomination for POTUS".

Duke

You're good!

It's simple; If HRC is the Democratic nominee WE win the election, if BO is the nominee it will be an absolutely certain loss. The TOTAL AMERICAN ELECTORATE will NOT ELECT an inexperienced, unaccomplished LW Liberal like BO.

... I just can't imagine why we bother with primaries at all. We should all just defer to your obvious better judgment, not to mention your incredible insight into how the TOTAL AMERICAN ELECTORATE thinks and will vote.

BTW, can you let me in on the winning lottery numbers for this Friday's draw? I'll split the winnings with you.

Thanks in advance! :hi:

an individual casting their vote for THEIR POLITICAL PARTY's candidates on a voting machine WITHOUT outside influence and peer pressure. Once manipulated caucuses and open elections are abolished, we'll talk. After I consult with my MAGIC 8 BALL, I'll get back to YOU with those winning lottery numbers.

... to come up with winning lottery numbers, when you were able to state, without qualification or hesitation, that if BO is the nominee it will be an absolutely certain loss.

Is this some kind of random and roving prescience thing, that only works when predicting presidential election outcomes?

:shrug:

the RW neocons, I'm certain THEY are NOT READY to swing to the inexperienced, unaccomplished LW Liberal OTHER extreme. Just simple logic.

If Dem primary voters wanted experience, why wasn't the final showdown between Biden, Dodd and Richardson?

That's the most nonsensical thing you're ever uttered as you have completely missed the point of my post. I was just pointing out that everyone who voted for Hillary isn't racist and told you some reasons why people like Hillary. Does one...in your opinion...have to be psychic to understand that? I think not!

Check my post again, please. You'll see that I was replying to another poster, not your OP.

I was very disappointed in you. I really had a hard time believing those words could come from you. Thanks for the correction...it's getting late and I'm tired...too much gardening today. :hi:

I have done exactly the same thing - :blush: - more times than I care to admit!

:hi:

Don't we know it here in OH, PA, KY, WVa and IN?

As well as FLA & MI, if their votes were actually being counted.

you sure you're on the right site pal? Around here, LW liberal is a good thing.

The conversion is complete. The poster just doesn't know it yet. There are cruises with John Bolton and Michael Medved in the future for this one, I think.

And worry not; Obama is winning over more independents and moderates than he is losing.

the fuck out of the way.

Vote for anybody you want, I couldn't give two shits.

Did it ever occur to you that voting for a woman just because she's a woman is sexism?

Frankly, I don't think any woman voted for Hillary just because she was a woman.

n/t

Admittedly, it is a very small sample size of exactly one, here in overwhelmingly pro-Obama Washington state.

She is a boomer woman who supports Clinton because she thinks it will be her only chance to see a female President in her lifetime. No other reason.

Words from your OP, and you didn't freaking recognize them? And then you disavow them? :wtf:

:crazy: :silly: :crazy:

...achievement by taking the low road.

It is becoming obvious that Hillary supporters are under the impression that we require their permission to enjoy our victories and that permission of course is never freely given, so it's time to disabuse them of that impression and enjoy our victory whether they care or not.

the subject?

to stop talking about the white vote if she didn't want to be perceived as pandering to racists.

nomination who is not talking about the white vote, the black vote, the youth vote, the women's vote, the vote of the uneducated, the vote of the affluent, etc. The pollsters and pundits have broken the voting population down into so many demographics that it has become almost impossible to mention one group without appearing to discriminate against another. The media has exploited this to their advantage as it has given them a lot to talk about and fill up their 24 hour news cycle and attract viewers.

This is not to say that racism, sexism, ageism and a lot of other "isms" don't exist, but it isn't fair to use a broad brush to paint any particular group of voters or supporters of either candidate. Both candidates have supporters in every demographic that can be mentioned.

did it ever occur to you that we don't like her because she is a liar who will say whatever she wants, true or not, if she thinks it will feather her own nest.

is what scares me, to much baggage.

Cuz it occurred to ME!

poor losers.

ANY other candidate would have left the race by now for the good of the party, and work to bring her supporters in to back the nominee.

So, yes, there are valid reasons I'm sure.

However, the issue at this point is that the only way she can win is by cheating. Do you really think that will translate into a unified party and a win? I think it means a strong green party candidate.

in a dozen or more permutations?

And don't forget some dems are racist and sexist. Why is it just fine for YOU to call others sexist?

It's your choice.

Who you vote for in the GE is far more important.

And you will be vote for Obama, should he win, right?

...because:

They think he has a better chance of winning the General Election

Because he has more experience as a lawmaker than she

Because he represents a break from Washington's "business as usual" politics

Did it ever occur to them that Sen. Clinton has high negatives in the general population?

Did it ever occur to them that people should vote for the person they think is best for the job, irregardless of race or gender?

Did it ever occur to them that poor and middle class Americans have more faith that someone who comes from the same background as they do, who has fought all his life for his accomplishments, would push for the issues they know are important to them?

DID THEY EVER THINK THAT WE'RE NOT SEXIST AND WE HAVE MANY VALID PERSONAL REASONS FOR NOT SUPPORTING SEN. CLINTON THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HER GENDER??

I will vote for the Democratic nominee. Even if they aren't the person I would prefer. Because this country is too important to risk by throwing tantrums

She certainly came close, but probably should have dropped out before now. That's just me though. Clearly her voters are just as enthusiastic for her.

Before you write another word look at the chart

Her campaign is a flat line. She started with a huge lead and all of the advantages of the ex President machine.

In 6 months her campaign is exactly where it started. If she cannot convince Democrats for her how in the world is

she going to convince Independents ane Republicans that reviled the Clintons?








It is a failed campaign that was run very poorly so no we don't think that she can win the GE because she did so poorly.

You people are the Kool Aid drinkers who refuse to accept this one basic fact:



IN SIX MONTHS, WITH THE ADVANTAGES OF 30 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE, THE BEST KNOWN BRAND IN THE PARTY, HUGE MONEY ADVANTAGE TO BEGIN WITH,

ASSOCIATIONS AND FRIENDS IN EVERY STATE BUILT UP OVER 30 YEARS, STARTING WITH 150 SUPER DELEGATE ADVANTAGE: SHE HAS NOT INCREASED

HER BASIC LEVEL OF SUPPORT BY ONE GODDAMN PERCENT -- NOTHING -- NOW DO YOU GET IT - HOW CAN A PERSON THAT RUNS A FLATLINE CAMPAIGN

WIN A GENERAL ELECTION.



HOW MANY TIMES DOES IT HAVE TO BE SAID BEFORE YOU ACCEPT THIS ONE SIMPLE FACT????

they think he would have a better chance of winning the GE in a year when voters want change?

It has nothing to do with Hillary as a woman, but everything to do with her representing the same old politics that has gotten this country in the mess we are now in.

because she was white?

Had a Senior moment and forgot in my post that 2 out of 10 voters = 1/5 of the voters. :eyes:

We believe he has a better chance of winning th GE

He has more experience with being a State and US Senator

He is not a Washington insider and doesn't owe as many favors

We know what Hillary will keep the same and we want a change

Some women would be proud to have an AA as president

Yes we love Obama as much as you love Hillary

Not all poor working Americans believe Hillary will look after their best interest in light of past votes, bankruptcy bill, NAFTA support etc...

I have never said you are a racists and I have valid reasons for not wanting Hillary

I WILL VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE, WHOEVER THAT MAY BE! SHAME ON ANY DEMOCRAT NOT VOTING FOR THE PARTY NOMINEE!

GO OBAMA!

:kick:

but some are. that is shown in the exit polls in Kentucky tonight. And if 3/10 of them admit they are voting because of race, how many are doing so and not admiting it. I am sorry, but I know people that have voted for Obama only because they don't like Hillary's open courting of Gay groups. Several of them had to be talked out of going for McCain (not by me, they know better than to say much like this to me). What do they fear about Obama. They are afraid that if he wins, the African American population will have too much power. Or in some of their cases, that there will be race riots as the AA try to take over power. As my daughter put it, it is racism in its purest form, they still see the AA as less civilized/human than EA. This is people who are close to me, and they discuss me. Personally, although I cannot disown these relatives (already done that to most of mine), but as a democrat - I don't care if the racism goes where it belongs and that is to the republicans.

Update: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

"(CNN) — Even in a state Hillary Clinton appears to have won by 35 points, a majority of Kentucky voters say the New York senator attacked Barack Obama unfairly.

According to the exit polls, 54 percent of voters said Clinton launched unfair attacks on Obama, though that didn't seem to deter voters there from supporting Clinton — 55 percent of those who said Clinton attacked unfairly still voted for the New York senator."

Enough Said. It is not that they like her, it is just that she is white! I'm sorry, but this is obvious in some parts of the country.

Those people are racist because they voted for Hillary even though they thought she was unfair? Most people have always thought primaries are unfair...does that make most people racist too. You are not thinking very logically and are jumping to false conclusions.

match up pretty well with the ones who voted for her because of race, because she is white. Look; these same democrats will cross over in November and vote for the republican, so their vote is pretty unimportant to the democrats anyway.

Watch this clip and you will see that I am not alone in my thinking. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/05/21/ec.seg.gergen.cnn

;)

because of race.

But don't let inconvenient facts get in your way.

And now the cat's out the bag?

based on exit polling stating that race was a factor in their decision, and the overwhelming amount of them voted for Hillary. There's a logical inference there.

Obviously not every Hillary voter is a racist, but votes are cast for Hillary because she is white...or 'not black'.

That's where the racism is turning up.

states that democrats have to win, he gets his ass handed to him. I guess screaming racism or using racism as the reason you lost is acceptable in the new democratic party, personally, it takes courage to admit you lost, fair and square, no qualifiers, no excuses. Courage is sadly lacking in both Sen. Obama (see "Present" votes) and a vocal majority of his online supporters.

toward race is "crying" racism?

Do you believe that polling methods are valid at all, or are they only invalid when they apply to issues of race?

They can't conceive of Obama losing voters for any reason than pure racism or because people will only vote for a woman. Malarkey! As pointed out in the OP...there are many other reasons people vote for Hillary. But many O supporters can't believe their "Leader" could lose to Hillary...a woman... so they must be racist. Broad brush accusations doesn't have much value.

Of course some people are racist...but not so many that it would cost an election and O seems to want an excuse for losing working class Americans. It's much easier on his ego to claim racism as the real reason.

David Gurgan is shamelessly pushing race as a factor in O loses. I used to respect this man but now I believe he's covering for his bias support of Obama. His chosen one couldn't possibly be losing any votes except for racism.

are racist but not sexist. If the demographic for Hillary in WV is, the way some here have painted it, just a bunch of gun-toting, uneducated, racist backwoodsmen, it does not pass the smell test that they likewise aren't sexist. Yes, some are probably racist, yes, there are some who are sexist, too. But I think some of it's just tied to the economy. Thom Hartmann and his first guest this morning were bragging about what a poor state Oregon is - median income $2000 per year under the national average, loaded with working-class stiffs etc. - yet in a survey I read yesterday, less than half the Oregon electorate cited the economy as their main reason for voting for a particular candidate. In WV and KY, it's one of the main reasons.

The GE is a winner-take-all and depends on the big states. Clinton has shown that she can win the big states. Barack has benefited from the partial-credit; with a winner-take all primary (as we have ALWAYS had), Barack would have conceded months ago.

A partial credit primary in NO WAY predicts the GE.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Your the one who doesn't like either candidate but only wails on Obama supporters. Right...

But nice try at your bullshit attempt.

It's hard to believe that you whiners can't see yourselves in the mirror. You are kidding yourselves but you sure as hell aren't kidding anyone else.

She lost, he won, get the fuck out of the way loser!

Stop, Hillary, stop!

"some women wanting a female president" is sexist and thus not a "valid" reason? Who are the sexists again?

I'm just Curious.

a little more inappropriate.

Then yes.

As in "WE HAVE MANY VALID PERSONAL REASONS FOR NOT VOTING FOR OBAMA."

Of course, if you're Chelsea's godmother or something, I suppose that would be a valid personal reason to support Senator Clinton. I prefer to choose based on policy differences, not personal reasons.

Congratulations to Senator Clinton for winning Kentucky. Does it count as a big state that we have to win in November now?

if Obama gets his ass there.

Second thought...or if Hillary is VP...but I wouldn't count on it.

Plenty of work to do. Join us!

:thumbsup:

I think that's fair.

How you can think a proven liar and race-baiter is the best candidate IS beyond me, though.

but I'm afraid that's what is going to happen.

No matter what you say, you are wrong when you play this game.

It is a lot easier when you have a complex situation involving a lot of moving parts to latch onto ONE thing that you don't like and paint the whole thing with that brush. It is a sort of lazy mental shorthand. It happens on both sides and most people do it.

.

candidates that have come from left field before who had a successful presidency?

I don't know....

Let me see....

One William Jefferson Clinton? He was a nobody in '92 with even less of a knowledge base than a US Senator

Anybody else?

Hmmm FDR... ok, so people recognized the name... blame his cousin.

Hmmm who else? Oh yes, Trumman. I know, he got in since he was the VEEP but many folks voted for the VEEP since FDR was very sick.

Then there is Reagan, ok he doesn't quite qualify all them movies and that,... not that he was a good president... I wonder if he was even there the last three years, but he also seemed to come from left field... and as much as I loathe him... he is the reason we are where we are... thank Ron, NOT. (For freepers readying this, now is your cue for heads to explode, yes, I heavily criticized your idol)

You see what you have here is a classic insider versus outsider argument... oh and by the way, for the record, I still think Edwards would be a far better president than EITHER of these two centrists... but he dropped.. so what do you do? You line up behind the guy with the D.

And, Kyl-Lieberman?

And, threatened to "obliterate" Iran?

Did it ever occur to you that Blacks are "poor working Americans"?

Gulp gulp gulp gulp gulp

*SHAZAAAAAM*


Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Hard working Americans, white Americans, flag pins, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, finger-gate, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, snub-gate, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, duck! incoming!, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, shiny kindergarten papers!, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, latte-drinkers!, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, muslim, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, cocaine, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Ayers, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, xerox!, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, elitist, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright, Rev. Wright



Ahhhhh, let's toast: :toast:

I have no quarrel with Clinton supporters who prefer her for the reasons you stated.

I have no thought that ALL Clinton supporters are racists.

I do not disagree with you that many, if not most, Clinton supporters have totally valid reasons for not wanting to vote for Obama (just as I have reasons for not preferring Clinton).

My preference is for Obama, but if Clinton got the nomination, I would absolutely vote for her, for the same reasons I hope that her supporters will vote for Obama if he gets the nod: there is far too much at stake for me to sit home, or worse, to vote for John McCain.

I love this country, first and foremost, and want to see it turned around. I think either Obama and Clinton can do that.

I'm also a life-long Democrat, and will vote for the person with the (D) after their name in the GE.

We have a winner! for the best answer.

You are practically the only one here to discuss the O P's comment.

Most everyone else just chimed in with anything they wanted or made snide comments. Thanks, AB

except...always the except...that many, if not most, Clinton supporters have totally valid reasons for not wanting to vote for Obama.

I voted FOR Senator Clinton, not AGAINST Senator Obama. The rest of your post tells me you voted FOR Senator Obama, not AGAINST Senator Clinton.

I would hate an election in which I was reduced to voting against someone, rather than for the candidate of my choice.

Actually, I did do that once. And...Ok...I'm going to confess here...I voted against the Democrat for Governor who, when talking about affordable health care "When you're ripe it's time to go". :scared:

The (R) was actually much more liberal that the (D), and it was the only time in my 37 years of voter eligibility that I have not been eager to vote (D).

Your statements are very well put. Thank you!

With respect to Kentucky, they labeled themselves. Check out the exit polling where 3 almost 4 people in 10 said race was an important factor in their decision. Nobody made that up. When is the last time you saw a poll where 3/4 in 10 people said the sex of the candidate was an important factor?

all the way since Iowa. I am writing it up and will post it when I am done. Their whole strategy has been to get the GOP united behind McCain and divided behind Obama and Clinton with both sides accusing the other of racism and sexism.

General Electric is a great big fat war monger/ environmental polluter.

The primary according to DU is the narrative that people like Russert, Brokaw and Matthews have been dishing out. I will have it all written up by tomorrow, but if you want to read it all yourself, go here and start reading.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3719710/

I started with the Iowa Caucus coverage.

The Dems only hope will be ABC and CNN which both distrust McCain because of his past history of malignant interference in their cable operations. Watch the general elections. You will see that only these two TV news organizations will present negative coverage of McCain and positive coverage of the Dem. MSNBC is going to turn on the Dem with a viciousness that is going to make some people's heads spin. Only a news network that was out to get the Democrats would have stooped to the kind of divide and conquer games that MSNBC has been playing in its primary coverage.

I don't ever expect her to stand up and take responsibility for past votes or her present kitchen sink campaign anymore than I expect her supporters to hold her responsible. Anymore than I expect Bush to accept responsibility or his supporters to hold him responsible.

And quite honestly I'm relieved I won't have to be worried about that batshit crazy woman sitting in the WhiteHouse with her jumpy trigger finger on the big red button while's she having flashbacks of sniper fire.

JFC a little sanity please. Hillary is NOT a VICTIM.

No. It never occurs to them. They prefer the broad brush approach of hate against dissenters.

Further, they seem not to understand the difference between democracy and consensus.... and they insist upon the latter. No matter what the cost with be in November, they want us to march in lock-step.

I agree with every one of your statements, Auntie. And I am behind Hillary all the way!

Thank you! :hug: I needed that! It sure take nerve and full body armor to post anything positive about Hillary. So many people don't even read the OP, analyze it and post a reaction or opinion. They seem to just aimlessly react!
I was just trying to point out some reasons why people might want to vote for Hillary besides being racist. I can't understand how that passed over so many heads. :shrug: I guess it was attack the messenger. Thanks again for your support. AB Go Hillary!

racist than dems, and if half of dems are 'racist' it would seem rather difficult for O to win the GE.

There are scary black men about holding large political rallies.

:eyes:

Luv ya!:patriot:

That many people are tired of the fighting on the DU? No, I can't name them. I just can't believe that I am the only one that is tired of the fighting around here about the candidates. Discussions good, fighting is just getting old. So oooooooooold.

Raebrek!!!

if anything this primary has provided ample evidence that those on the left are just as capable of parsing, spinning and prevaricating as those on the right. I support Barack Obama because of his policies and what I believe is his integrity. I could make a similar list enumerating precisely why HRC is not suitable for POTUS but at this stage it's academic.

continues, lying about metrics like "popular vote", and that is why we are sick of her and sick of her supporters? Because we need to defeat McCain. Your time to argue your case for Hillary is OVER. She has lost the pledged delegate count for the primary season. Supers will not overturn it. SHE. HAS. LOST.

But HRC's campaign went strongly negative and BHO's supporters are right to fling it right back.

Tho' some BHO supporters (and HRC supporters) are a bit wrapped up in emotion and hyperbole, I also think that the GOP "operation chaos" crowd has been working overtime at many levels, including creating fake HRC boards to fan the hottest flames. Dems as a whole should be very aware that in this election a false flag type "operation chaos" strategy is already a major (if not *the* major) GOP tactic and that it will only get worse in the GE.

Dems as a whole should be ready to pounce on GOP negativity and lack of coherent policy. It does no good whatever when HRC supporters pounce on negative anti-Obama (or Michelle) talking points and amplify them, and that's still happening. The GOP and FOX are *not* on the Dem/progressive side, not by a long shot, and no Dem should take comfort in being stroked by them.

As a feminist, there is no way I would EVER vote for Clinton.

There are many valid reasons to support Hillary Clinton for President. To assume the worst about a stranger is in opposition to the values that I hold dear about our Democratic Party.

:cry:

First love and all of that. Clinton supporters have a lot to be proud of, I just don't see any way she can win now, and Obama can make an excellent President if we elect him, which we must.

I expect Hillary to be a real force FOR Obama on the campaign trail this Summer, whether or not she is on the ticket. I expect a lot of people who have said some pretty negative things about Hillary this Spring will have a somewhat changed attitude toward her by then.

But unfortunately, for some reason, Clinton supporters like yourself feel entitled to something. "We count too!"

The rest of us count, also. The ones would supported Biden, Dodd, Kucinich, Edwards, and Gravel. Those of us that accepted reality and are doing whats best for the party.

I have heard more supposed "Democrats" who support Hillary say that they are going to support John McCain in the general.

"I think those posters should be ashamed of themselves. Don't forget you're accusing fellow Democrats of being racist."

If they won't support Obama in the general, they aren't Democrats, and I will say whatever I want about these turncoat scumbags.

Why do you hate black people? :D

Go Hillary!!

:kick:

If Clinton had more supporters voting for her and contributing to her campagin.....

SHE WOULD BE AHEAD OF BARACK OBAMA! There is NO two winners now. There is only ONE! Guess who?! BARACK OBAMA!

I come to the conclusion that Clinton supporters don't care about the Democratic party. They only care about the Goddess of Peace bullshit.

I want a good president. I don't care if the person has cock or cunt. HRC is a fucking lying witch. She wants to take it to the convention. I will join the fight to defeat her. :nuke:

Not a Obama supporter = racist

:-)

They can't fathom why anyone would not vote for the great Obama. Therefore, everyone who won't vote for him must necessarily be a racist.

:kick:

Dit it ever occur to Obama supporters that Hillary supporters have voted for her because they think she would have a better chance of winning the GE? YES, and I have concluded that this notion is just so much bullshit and that you HS'ers are mistaken.

Did it ever occur to O S that H S think she has more experience? YES, and I have concluded that this notion is just so much bullshit because it does not include BO's experience in state politics and as a community organizer while counting HRC's "White House Years" experience (which IMO, doesn't count for a thing) and that you HS'ers are mistaken.

Did it ever occur to you that we think she is more informed about the ways of Washington and would be better at getting things done? YES, and I have concluded that your statement that "she is more informed about the ways of Washington and would be better at getting things done" translates that she knows who to suck up to in order to get the thing that special interest groups and lobbyists want done." Therefore I have concluded that this notion is just so much bullshit and that you HS'ers are mistaken.

Did it ever occur to you that the public don't know how or what Obama will change and that worries them? YES, and why are you so afraid of change? It is long overdue. Did it occur to you that us BO'ers believe that if HRC becomes President it will be just more of the same old, same old?

Did it ever occur to you that some woman want a female president? YES, and I have concluded that these women are sexists.

Did it ever occur to you that we just love Hillary as much as you love Obama? YES, and I have concluded that I can't do a damn thing about it.

Did it ever occur to you that poor working Americans have more faith that Hillary will push for issues they feel are important? I could go on and on but I won't bore you. YES, and, for the life of me, I can't understand why.

DID IT EVER OCCUR TO YOU THAT WE'RE NOT RACIST AND WE HAVE MANY VALID PERSONAL REASONS FOR NOT VOTING FOR OBAMA? YES, and that, of course, is your perogative. But, should BO finally nail down the Dem nomination, why would 50% of you HRC supporters be such poor losers that you would not vote for BO. Especially considering that his platform is not all that different from hers? Is is because you are a racist?

It doesn't seem like it from many posts and comments on DU. I see repeated suggestions that KYians only voted for Hillary because they are racist. I think those posters should be ashamed of themselves. Don't forget you're accusing fellow Democrats of being racist.

GO HILLARY GO! HiLIARy ... GET THE F**K out!

What could you possibly gain by underestimating us and insulting our intelligence? Is this helping you or your candidate in some way?


:shrug:

"they think she would have a better chance of winning the GE?"

Because she clearly isn't.

"Did it ever occur to O S that H S think she has more experience?"

Obama's got more time in office. Clinton's got more time touring with Sinbad and Tori Amos.

"Did it ever occur to you that we think she is more informed about the ways of Washington and would be better at getting things done?"

Well she's not better at raising money, running a campaign, or getting superdelegates.

"Did it ever occur to you that the public don't know how or what Obama will
change and that worries them?"

What worries them, is that Clinton won't change anything. Why would she? She voted for all this crap.

"Did it ever occur to you that some woman want a female president?"

I have a better opinion of women than that.

"Did it ever occur to you that we just love Hillary as much as you love Obama?"

This isn't some sporting event or high school talent competition.

"Did it ever occur to you that poor working Americans have more faith that Hillary will push for issues they feel are important? I could go on and on but I won't bore you."

No, see bankruptcy bill. I have got a better opinion on poor people than that.

"DID IT EVER OCCUR TO YOU THAT WE'RE NOT RACIST AND WE HAVE MANY VALID PERSONAL REASONS FOR NOT VOTING FOR OBAMA?"

No, I've never heard a valid personal reason.

not simply, "the first woman president". And that being a woman does not make her more qualified. Honestly where the fuck do you get off with this shit?

Oh no, I must have said something "sexist" again. Well fuck me.

Bullshit post, once again.




"OOOOOOOO HiLlary! HiLlary! HiLlary! HiLlary! HiLlary! HiLlary! HiLlary! HiLlary! HiLlary! HiLlary! HiLlary! HiLlary! HiLlary! HiLlary!"

I really lost it with this one...

"Did it ever occur to you that some woman want a female president?"

What the hell is that even supposed to mean. Are you implying that some women are so dumb as to vote their gender above all else? Really? Cause that's pretty dumb.

So if I said that I was voting for Obama because "he's a man", Christ help me, you'd all be lighting the fires and burning me at the stake.

This place is becoming downright retarded...

Did it ever occur to you that nobody really cares?

i felt the same way about Edwards. I knew in my heart he was the right man for the job.
But he didn't make it. So I chose another good democrat, someone who is INSPIRING our youth.
THAT means a lot.
You're entitled to your opinion. Hillary has lots of good qualities. But I don't think she's
the best horse to put my money on. If she won the nomination, I'd vote for her in a second.
And I won't get into any of the BS that I've seen on this board, it's been really pathetic around here.

Vote for your candidate. Then if she/he loses; vote for the Democrat that is winning.

Unfortunately, i know of more than one person who won't vote for Obama because of his color.
But I also know too many people who won't vote for Hillary because she's who she is. They have a personal grudge.

Keep in mind, Obama wins the rural vote in the West handily. But there is a big difference between Western rural voters and Obama supporters. I can say with certainty Obama won the Western rurals because of sexism. It is damn hard to be truly racist (against blacks anyway, Hispanics are a different issue out here) when there aren't any by the demographics and historically never have been. But it is damn easy to be sexist . There are always women that need to be kept in line.

No. This is not just sarcasm. Dina Titus, a damn fine candidate for governor, lost Nevada in 2006 to one of the most flawed Republican gubernatorial candidates I've ever seen, Jim Gibbons. Pretty much only because of sexism.

However, while WV's population may be primarily white, there is a history of racial tension in the state. They might not have had a plantation economy, but they were as Southern as you can get without it. Race was the factor in the WV race. Other things may have had an impact, but nothing like race. These aren't Democrats for the most part. They're not Hillary supporters. These are Zell Miller / Dixiecrats. Don't throw your hat in with this lot. Please.

but since you are one of the biggest Obama haters on this site, I don't think you deserve it. An Obama supporter could say the same things and you would argue with them.

I AM NOT AN OBAMA HATER! GOT IT! ?!?!?!?

What I hate is the vitriol toward Hillary on this site! Most (not all) of my posts are in defense of Hillary...not hatred or negative about Obama...although lately the ranker toward Hillary has a tendency to rub off on Obama. I told posters this many times...stop the hateful posts about Hillary...it isn't helping people want to vote for Obama and that's the truth! Look how many Dems won't vote for Obama...they are not ALL racist! But the hatred between camps has alienated an ange
red Hillary supporters to the point we don't want to vote for Obama.

I hate the unfair pile-on bias lies about Hillary...that's what I hate...lord knows not Obama himself. His supporters on DU and the internets have caused all the hatred and acrimony.
I don't even dislike Obama. I dislike the idea that Hillary...my candidate..is raked over the coals. There is not a poster on this site who would be happy to have their candidate

EEWWWW! A bat just flew over my head! We have cathedral ceilings and he's flying all around! OK I'm back. We opened all the doors and windows...brrr...it's 47 degrees out and maybe in here too. I didn't actually see him fly out...but I don't see him anymore so I assume he's gone. I hope so anyway! My heart is still pounding! :scared: Not really scared of the bat but scared he's still in here. I keep hearing noises but it isn't him. Now what was I saying?

ridiculed picked on and lied about for every possible sleazy reason the way Hillary has been. It's really, really hard not to be angry! But, that doesn't translate to Obama. You are projecting your own hatred toward Hillary! Don't put me in your shoes!

(needed new glasses -- and felt totally exhausted by 1:30 PM. Fell into bed and slept until now...) I had a terrible night after being called names, and just generally misunderstood. Yes, I have some failures, but the name calling is just stupendous.

I think this place just wears a person out, day after day after day.

The negativity is so thick you can slice it with a knife. I have never had such a disappointing experience on the Internet. Our so-called "friends" and "companion Democrats" are like hyenas... closing in for the kill.

Please take care of yourself and try to put certain people out of your mind.

Some of them DO SEEM out of their minds.

Cordially,

Radio Lady

It's OVER.

:nopity:

She is out for herself and that is all. Anyone that believes her BS is naive and foolish. The last thing this party needs is more years of the Clinton's.

Levin-Reed amendment. I want to know why.

She voted FOR her best friend, Joe LIEberman's amendment, the Kyl-LIEberman Amendment, but none of the Hillary enablers want to discuss that.

They continue on with the fallacy that Hillary is electable, but never mention the fact that she is and has always been a VERY polarizing figure who has always had high negatives. Want to know why Faux News, Limpballs and Joe Scumbag cream their pants for her? Because they KNOW that she is beatable. The Repugs have a very weak candidate. But even Grandpa McCain can beat Hillary because she energizes the Repugs and will galvanize the Repug base.

Why Hillary enablers can't see and accept these facts are beyond comprehension.