What is driving Clinton?

I say it's the PACs.

The same cash from Corporate Transnationals that own the Media and fund campaigns, drive the Clintons...Transnational energy corporations... Megapharms... War Profiteers... all beneficiaries of continuing the agenda of the Neocon Junta.

Clinton's objections to the Iraq War have been about prosecution; process, not the invasion and occupation. Her bellicosity regarding Iran is excessive and indistinguishable from George Bush and John McCain. The mandatory feature of her health care proposals will delay single payer eternally... and hand a legally enforced monopoly to the Rockefellers of this world.

If John McCain wins, they win. It's my belief that if Hillary Clinton wins, they also win. BUT... are she and Bill being paid to run, win or lose?

If the Clinton camp is dissatisfied with the Rules Committee decision at the end of May, they can take their appeal to the Convention, even if they have NO CHANCE of having that decision overturned; we'll ALL have to wait.

If an overwhelming show of Super Delegates puts Obama over the top prior to Convention, the Clintons can assert that the SD's are overturning the "popular vote," using their own peculiar mathematics. This will be another reason to take the whole matter to the Convention floor.

The GOP is in FULL ATTACK MODE against Senator Obama. He is battling on multiple fronts and cannot debate directly, until he is the nominee. Resources are being drained. Time is being spent.

Obama has proven, that given time, he can turn polls around and win. It's my belief that he can win, with the biggest landslide in U.S. History. We also NEED A STRONG SENATE MAJORITY... to STOP THE BOTTLENECK in legislative efforts. Obama can aid downticket races the most.

I do NOT believe that Clinton is who she is now claiming to be. I believe the future of the World and the FATE OF OUR REPUBLIC are now in the hands of Clinton, her Corporate backers and her supporters.

I've witnessed a lot of drama on this site in the short time I've been here. I've read stream after stream of lurid, sleazy, inflammatory, incendiary, Republican-esque BULLSHIT and hand wringing, drama. I've seen outright racism, thinly veiled. I've witnessed a modicum of "sexism," but frankly, not so much.

It's been "race gender race gender race gender," STIR STIR STIR.

WE NEED MORE THAN THE TEN WEEKS BETWEEN THE CONVENTION AND THE GENERAL ELECTION TO CAMPAIGN.

or we will lose...

BushClintonBushClintonBushClinton..................

That's it.

Dick Van Dyke would never give her the keys after all the whiskey she's been swigging.

Her way from coast to coast.

That car can sense people with bad intentions and would give her the ride of her life.

...individuals like Sabin who are outright attempting to buy superdelegates like Sabin.

  Don't ever let anyone tell you that both our Democratic candidates are alike. Big money is willing to tear everything down (The DCCC, for Christ's sake- getting Democrats elected to Congress, period) for Clinton.

  HINT: It ain't because they want to see a woman in the White House.

PB

.

haven't we had enough of those characteristics over the past 8 years?

sorry

There is a quality to this campaign beyond desperation. You hear it in Bill Clinton's voice when he contends the Democrats are disenfranchising voters; you hear it in Hillary's voice when she provides KKKarl Rove's analysis as proof she is the "stronger candidate against McCain."

But, if you listen to her conference call with the bloggers, when Hillary said "He won't debate me!" you could really hear a unique quality to her voice: it was anger and frustration and fear bundled together. Both Clintons are making statements about Democrats and the Democratic party that I honestly don't think they believe. They are unashamedly courting racist voters who they know will never vote for them in the general election. Rush Limbaugh. Richard Mellon Scaiffe. Now Karl Rove. Placing McCain above Obama. These are not coincidences; they are intentional and by design. The Clintons and Limbaugh and Rove and McCain are all accountable to the same moneyed and powerful interests.

There is a quality of fear driving this last ditch effort. I don't think Hillary feels like she has the option of giving up or conceding. Her voice is hoarse, she's tired, but she's maintained a manic schedule even when the other candidates took days (like Mother's Day) off.

What is driving Clinton, indeed. I think the Clintons sold themselves to some very powerful interests who want to continue the one party rule. McCain vs. Clinton would be win-win for them. Obama is not so much a progressive as an unknown factor. And I think there is a suspicion that Obama can't be bought.

According to the latest filing report Hillary Clinton has raised $7,709,576.28 from people who live or work in Washington DC.

Barack Obama raised $582,482.17

you said what is becoming a more obvious fact with each passing day.

Yes I have to conclude also that this degree of desperation is hiding more than we might suspect.

"First woman prez" and "let the voters have their say" --NOT buying that goody goody stuff anymore.

"she doesn't have the option of conceding" = they need more time to figure out how they're going to work this. Because they are not--and never were, or will be-- prepared to lose.

The Clintons need to figure out how they will appease their masters, either by winning the Presidency themselves or ensuring a McCain victory.

there's no 'good' explanation or justification for the Clinton behavior at this point. When things seem really insane, there usually are serious subterranean motives & games. Sincere Hillary supporters are really getting used in this game... :-(

but the Clintons themselves have become pawns caught up in this power struggle.

It is sad. But I believe we have one last opportunity to restore Constitutional authority to our government.

I hope people come to their senses by November.

The only thing I can't quite grasp is how she can be $31m in debt if this this is largely about monied and powerful interests. Is it simply that those big donors maxed out long ago?

.

I'm not asking how she can continue to campaign with heavy debt, but I'm wondering how & why the "powers that be" could let her get so far in debt if they support her so.

I do think there is more driving her than meets the eye. This thread is the closest I've seen to a plausible explanation.

it IS a puzzlement though, eh?

it's like the Iraq Invasion "Why are we doing this?" speculation

That's almost a quarter of a BILLION dollars.

She SHOULDN'T be in debt. Due to mismanagement, however, she is. The special interests and people in power gave her more than enough money to win this thing. Due to campaign finance laws, they can't give more, which is why you saw the threats to Pelosi regarding withholding funds to help elect Democrats. This is why you saw the exploration of 527's on the part of wealthy Clinton supporters, that's why you had the Clintons (via surrogates like Maggie Williams) leaning on women's groups to send misinformation to voters in states like North Carolina.

Add to that, the pure name recognition of a NY Senator and wife of a two-time popular Democratic President and that should spell WIN!

I'm inclined to believe it is pure luck and more than a little benevolence that allowed Obama to even stay in the thing and survive Super Tuesday.

Think about campaign finance. Think about why it was needed. Think about the two authors of the bill... Russ Feingold and John McCain. Russ designed this law to help a candidate like Obama stay competitive with someone like Clinton. McCain's reason for supporting campaign finance is quite obvious. He can't raise money and never could without assistance from his wife and her trust fund.

There are dots to be connected here.

n/t

yeah she doesn't appear to be driving as this thing careens downhill....

...

They promised her a future presidency no doubt, just like they promised Grandpa back in 2000 when they rooked him out of the nomination. Hopefully neither one will make good on their dirty bargains.

it's very important...the longer this goes on...the more harm it's going to do...I can see staying in, until the last primary...but if she takes it past that...then everyone seriously needs to begin demanding answers as to what the game she's playing really is, because at that point, it's no longer about being the first woman prez...it's about something else entirely...wb

The problem is I like it "mixed" with LSD and Morphine... so I abstain.

of the Greatest Page, this is certainly it. You have come the closest I've seen lately to heart of the matter. Tatiana, at post #11, is also dead on.

Hillary (aka The Clintons) are the fall back position if their boy McCain doesn't make it. And I'm not talking about a few rich Dem donors. The very same powers that are behind GWB are behind her. She is bought, and she knows she is bought, and she knows what it means if she made promises to them that she now cannot keep. She must now win the thing any way she can, or destroy the party so McCain has a clear shot. And perhaps, for them, having her on the VP ticket is as good as the top - it is ripe with possibilities. Just remember how hard some fought to get LBJ at the top of the Kennedy ticket.

Do not doubt this is about the very soul of the nation, this race between Clinton and Obama.

It is NOT about a ridiculous race or gender argument. That is merely shit-stirring for the masses. Kept stirred by the same MSM that brought you GWB and his 7 glorious years. And those who keep it stirred up here on DU are just as bought-and-paid for as the MSM. By the same powers.

Obama is not my idea of a real progressive, but he is, in my opinion, the absolute last chance We the People have to save our country as we know it (and probably the world).

Wat

I'd say it is the voters keeping her going.

Ultimately the deflation of that kind of blustery talk will pay for itself in entertainment value.

If Obama supporters actually acknowledged that this is going to be a very tough election, but still claimed he had a chance to win it, I would find their claims a lot more credible. But when they say ridiculous things like "he will win in a landslide," the same tired old crap that has been said in 2004 and 2000, it makes me think: the only people who claim Obama will win are the same people that say he will win in a landslide (and the same people who would think Kucinich would win in a landslide). Forget facts and reality and political science and the electoral college, nothing actually makes them realize that unfortunately, the majority of America is not as progressive as we would like, and that "what should be" does not necessarily equal "what will be."

Unfortunately, their nominees and their delusion are actually costing the rest of us election after election and seats on the Supreme Court. That's what angers me the most. It's one thing to make the mistake once, but its something completely different to make the mistake again and again, with only chants like "Yes We Can!" as evidence that all of history is simply an anomaly.

I think the fall elections will be close when Obama takes on McCain, with McCain coming within 15 electoral votes.


If Veruca somehow stole the nomination, she'd get her ass handed to her. It's that simple.

I think both are competitive in the popular vote nationwide (in the GE). But Obama gets his margin by reducing the margin of loss in red states. That nets popular votes, but not electoral votes.

Clinton, on the other hand, runs up her margins by winning in swing states that actually give us electoral votes. With Clinton, we would be poised to win all 3 of PA, OH, and FL. With Obama, we actually might lose all 3. I can't believe we are giving up an opportunity like this. For Obama to make up just ONE of those 3 states, he would have to win 3 other states that Bush won. That is simply mathematically unlikely.

I think Obama has a small chance of winning (by winning Ohio and PA). I'm not one of those who believes that he can offset a very close swing state by 2 or 3 states with even wider Bush margins in 2004.

You don't think that the Pubs wouldn't love to run against her? She'd bring out their voters in droves.

The dems aren't winning FL, period. It just ain't happening. OH and PA are possiblities, but she's also more likely to turn light blue states red.

I think Obama puts more states in play for the dems than hillary. Call it an educated guess, but I've already put my money where my mouth is via Intrade and am up 5 figures so far. You're welcome to do the same.

Her job/goal is to be the nominee. It is all about stacking the deck so that it won't matter who wins. No need to engage in election fraud to maintain the status quo.

So, if Hillary is not the nominee, then expect her to either run as an independent, or to do everything she can to sabotage Obama so that he loses, or the election is close enough to steal it for McCain.

I really hope I am wrong here, but when all of my alarm bells are screaming at me, as in this case, I gotta tell ya this ain't good.

not only in my head. Others hear them too.

starting yesterday

Cranky, you nailed it. The Clintons are corporatists.Look how he sold out jobs to China and Indonesia when he was in the White House.

Megalomania (from the Greek word μεγαλομανία) is a historical term for behavior

characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, genius, or omnipotence

- often generally termed as delusions of grandeur. The word is a collaboration of the word "mania" meaning madness and the Greek "megalo" meaning "very large", "great", or "exaggerated", thus combining to denote an obsession with, either in the form of irrational perceived need for or preoccupation with in one's own estimation having and/or obtaining, grandiosity and extravagance (especially in the form of great fame and popularity, material wealth, social influence or political power, or more than one or even all of the aforesaid) and accompanying complete desirous and bombastic abandon; a common symptom if not the key diagnostic feature of megalomania.

catapulting the talking points? That Florida speech just now is a perfect example. Could have been written by Karen Hughes and probably was.

like she's not in the driver's seat of this campaign...like she's being managed every bit as much as Bu$h 43 was...

This crazyness has got to be more than her own ambition --it's apparent that she and her supporters are being used for bigger purposes. I feel sorry for Hillary's sincere supporters--especially the ones on the lower economic scale...they really have been snowed.

This scenario was not in the cards. The corporatists are trying to figure out how to get what they want...they do not lose.

That's why this charade looks insane. Because it is. :(

Try getting her supporters to see this.

"The same cash from Corporate Transnationals that own the Media and fund campaigns, drive the Clintons...Transnational energy corporations... Megapharms... War Profiteers... all beneficiaries of continuing the agenda of the Neocon Junta.

Clinton's objections to the Iraq War have been about prosecution; process, not the invasion and occupation. Her bellicosity regarding Iran is excessive and indistinguishable from George Bush and John McCain. The mandatory feature of her health care proposals will delay single payer eternally... and hand a legally enforced monopoly to the Rockefellers of this world.

If John McCain wins, they win. It's my belief that if Hillary Clinton wins, they also win. BUT... are she and Bill being paid to run, win or lose?"

They can't tell political acumen from a hole in the ground imo

:kick:

... to push Obama down our throats? They gush over his speeches, and don't ask for the details. The System wants Obama, and every article they write about one of Senator Clinton's victories has a "but ..." in it. I'm distrustful of these elites, and Barack Obama is their boy.

He's not mine.

To the convention!

made me think. One thing that has been in the back of my mind is the fact that as long as I have been here
I have seen many many posts and polls(and done some of my own). Trust me - there was only a modicum of
support for her. Then, this year, the floodgates opened. Did our members turn? Or did a ton of her
supporters just suddenly hear about DU and flock here? I saw an ardent fan the other day. She had
5,000 posts since January! I think there is orchestrated effort to infiltrate and manipulate opinion.

I think you are right. What sold me goes back to 2004 and the questionable results. Bill Clinton
is brilliant. Hell, they say he used to sleep in class in law school and the professor would
wake him with a question and he would answer correctly! He knows every precinct in America.
He would have had to have known 04 was rigged. Yet, he said nothing. To me, this was when
the fix was in. I imagine him going to the Bushes and saying, I know what you did, but I will
say nothing if you get Hillary in in 08. ( and thus, get myself back in there too ).

There is no logical explanation for her staying in. It is the gorilla in the room and of course,
no one questions it. They effectively squelched all dissent the moment Leahy said she needed
to drop out-and he got pilliaried. Whenever something defies logic - it's usually about power and money and those
who seek to maintain the flow.

But, I think it's not going to work. The force of Obama and all who want him in is just too
damn strong. Strong enough to overcome all of this. They have definitely met their match !