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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:09 PM
Original message
"I've won more votes than anyone running for the Dem. nomination in the history of our party."
Hillary's email to me-along with other false claims. Why don't more people (than 1 or 2) in the media call her and her surrogates on this latest false claim? Her followers believe her and aze taking it out on Obama! :wtf:
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Yotun Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because, at the end of the day, what they say is true. Democrats are cowards who like to play it
safe, and not take the risk of calling her on her bullshit fearing they'll alienate her supporters or will appear improper. The Party needs to get some backbone and call her crap for what they are.
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. They do appear to be cowards. My own Rep. Stupak sitting on the side lines, Included.
Git off the Freaken Fence Folks.
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
63. Just emailed Stupak, told him to 'Shit or get off the Pot.'
Yes, I told him just that. Wonder what kind of reply I'll get...
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
81. Stupak (along with other Michigan superdelegates) have no vote.
Nor should they, imho. (Yes, I'm a Michigan voter.)
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #81
107. But can't they still endorse? Stabenow and Granholm did, for Hillary
Just checked my mail, got a Canned response for my shit or git off the pot letter to Stupak.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. Olbermann, Abrams, and maybe another person or two are pointing this out, but I wish
the SDs would come right out and endorse Obama IN PROTEST of her lies.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
69. WRONG - KO/MSNBC only point out she counts MI/FL - Hill's statement is a TRUTH
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REACTIVATED IN CT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. May be true - but it is IRRELEVANT !!
This is not how the nominee will be chosen this time.

"You can't change the rules in the middle of the game." Clifford the Big Red Dog
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #69
73. and doesn't count caucus states, so it is not the truth...
nice try
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #69
77. YOU'RE wrong-they HAVE brought up the FACT that she doesn't take any caucus states into account.
Edited on Thu May-22-08 10:56 AM by jenmito
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smiley_glad_hands Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #69
87. In bizzaro world maybe. eom
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. I've said the same thing many times to Hillary supporters.
:D
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Heather MC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. Notice they begin the Sexist claim, right before she started lying again
as a way to keep people from calling her out on her coming lies. The SD's are not falling for it.

I think Obama has something big planned with the pelosi club, just my opinion!
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
46. FUCK HILLARY _ SHE NEVER SENT ME MY FREE BUMPERSTICKER
Edited on Wed May-21-08 09:57 PM by bushmeat
my trashcans look barren

i signed up here 2 months ago and got nothing, not even a g.d. phone solicitation

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/bumper/
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #46
84. I hope you didn't give her campaign your credit-card#. ...
There have been problems in the past of her campaign taking repeatedly from credit card donations when only one donation was intended, and other credit-card misuse issues.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
51. Her supporters have been alienated from Obama by Hillary herself.
Which has been her plan all along. That's why there's no point in Obama trying to play it safe and ignore her.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
55. You can't alienate her supporters. Because unlike Republicans, Democrats don't stick together
for the bigger picture. Thats why we've had an idiot for president the last two terms.

Because Democrats don't stick together. its a fact. Republicans do. They don't like McCain but they will vote for him, because they see the bigger picture. Particulary JUDGES
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. simply monstrous arrogance
more like W every day
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. She sure is friendly with lots of his buddies.
:shrug:
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. She's so full of shit I'm surprised here eyes aren't brown.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. Her eyes ARE brown...
she has color contacts.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. HA! More lies and deception!
:popcorn:
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. Rovian tactics my friends...and since she apparantly consults
his methods....not surprised....

I find it ironic that she makes this statement and around the same time she is mocking Obama's huge crowds....

WTF does she want? She has lost her damn mind.
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samdogmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. ditto--"She has lost her damn mind!!!!"
At this point there is simply no rational explanation for her behavior except your summation which I have quoted in its entirety.
The woman is a fool. Her husband is a tool. Together they're just foolish tools!
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. It just gets to the point where you tune out to her and her campaign... I sure hope...
Edited on Wed May-21-08 09:24 PM by LakeSamish706
that isn't going to come back to bite me... In the Butttttttt.. I don't know... She just sucks is all.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. According to Rachel Maddow Hillary is planning on taking this ....
.... to the Convention. And if she can keep Obama from getting it
locked up before June 3rd than she can challenge the delegates because
of MI & FL and that will have to be taken up by the rules committee @ the
convention .... Mean time Hillary can have 3 more months to campaign and
a large part of her talking points will be that she got more votes than
Obama .... although this is false (Caucus States & MI / FL) this is part of
her plan to steal the nomination or to weaken Obama so he can't win.

Hillary needs to get the F*** out now.
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. She's going to hobble him to get the VP slot for herself. JMO.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. According to Maddow "she is in to win it."
She is now trying to stop Obama before a party meeting on June 3rd ...
if she can tie things up until after that than she can take it to the
convention.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
45. I love Rachel but I think she's got this one wrong.
Granted she's got a big ole Poly Sci degree and she's a thousand times smarter than me but sometimes the one who should be right isn't.

Obama's got it. He's got the SD's and he knows it. He's going to use this unusual situation of not having a winner and the attention that comes with it TO HIS ADVANTAGE.

As far is it never having happened like this before....I do think it's a mistake to compare this political year to ANY OTHER. IT WILL BE A YEAR OF FIRSTS.

And one of those firsts WILL be....President Barack Obama, it's SO out of Hillary's hands by now.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. Which part of the statement is incorrect?
nt
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Hillary put her signature to the fact that she would not count MI, FL.
Which part of her signature is incorrect?
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Abacus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. nt
Edited on Wed May-21-08 09:30 PM by Abacus
.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. All of it. Obama got 440,000 more votes than she did.
Unless you want to remain in fantasyland and pretend that nobody in Michigan supports Obama.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Caucus States are not figured in the total
It is pure b.s. so she can stay in the race.
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Abacus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. The part where
she omitted that Obama has won more votes than anyone running for the Dem. nomination in the history of our party.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. The whole thing.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. that she won the popular vote...
of course we have all the caucus states..and then we have the two non-compliant states...but we really all know she is hoping for the "Catastrophic Event" that will destroy Senator Obama.


Editorial: Follow DNC rules on seating delegates
February 25, 2008
By Editorial Board

On September 1, the campaigns of Clinton and Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill.) issued press releases stating that they had signed pledges affirming the DNC’s decision to approve certain representative states and sanction others for moving their nominating contests earlier. But now that the race is close, Clinton — whose top advisor Harold Ickes voted as a member of the DNC to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates — is pushing for the delegates to be seated.
Her argument is that not doing so disenfranchises the 1.7 million Florida Democrats who voted and that her pledge promised only that she wouldn’t campaign in the states, not that she wouldn’t try to seat the delegates. However, the results of the contests in Florida and Michigan are not necessarily representative of the voters’ preferences in those states. Given that most of the candidates removed their names from the
Michigan ballot, and that many voters stayed home from the vote in Florida with the understanding that their contest would not affect the final delegate count, the delegate totals that the candidates accumulated in these states may not accurately reflect the will of the voters. Had there been no restrictions in Michigan and Florida, the turnout, and thus the results, may have been different.

The Four State Pledge all candidates signed on Aug. 28 stated, “Whereas, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar...


Therefore, I ____________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules ...pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window.” When the candidates pledged to campaign only in approved states, they were also agreeing to the terms listed above, which explicitly mentioned stripping noncompliant states of their entire delegation.



House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) recently said that the Florida and Michigan delegates should not be seated if they would decide the nomination. Other compromise proposals include holding new nominating contests in these states, but such contests would be expensive and cumbersome. The irony is that had Florida and Michigan not moved up their primaries, they would have voted in February and March, when they would have been even more important than in earlier months in determining the Democratic nominee — and would not have created an enormous controversy that has the potential to divide the party.
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2008/2/25/editorialFollowDncRulesOnSeatingDelegates


Potential presidential nominees who did not want to appear on the Michigan January 15, 2008 presidential primary ballot could submit an affidavit with the Secretary of State by 4:00 p.m. on October 9, 2007. The January 15 date violates DNC rules, and five Democrats did submit the required affidavit: Biden, Edwards, Kucinich, Obama and Richardson. Clinton, Dodd and Gravel will appear on the Democratic ballot.

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/chrnothp08/mi100907pr.html


Clinton campaign on ropes
BY JOHN GUERRIERO
john.guerriero@timesnews.com
May 08. 2008
-------
Murray, who has supported Bill and Hillary Clinton since 1991, said these are tough times for people like him who are in the Clinton camp but want to unify the party.

"The sense is, absent some catastrophic event that would take place in this campaign, it's going to be very difficult to see a path to victory for Hillary given what happened" Tuesday, Murray said.

http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080508/NEWS02/805080437


Sun May 11, 2008
Analysis: Could Clinton land the VP nomination?

Several Clinton associates say there is still a ray of hope among some in her campaign: that a "catastrophic" revelation about Obama might make it possible for her to win the presidential nomination.
But barring that, Hillary and Bill Clinton recognize that her candidacy is being abandoned and rejected by superdelegates whom she once expected to win over and that, even if she were to win the popular vote in combined primary states, she will almost certainly be denied the nomination.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/10/bernstein.clinton/index.html?section=cnn_latest


CBSNews.com Reports: N.Y. Senator Now Faces Nearly Impossible Odds To Capturing Democratic Nomination

May 7, 2008

Clinton's Path To Victory Slipping Away
There is one scenario which does work for Clinton and that’s a massive movement of superdelegates leaving Obama and supporting her. The party leaders could do that, but it would take some unforeseen development in the race between now and the convention for them to do so. Obama, in some way, would have to be rendered so unelectable that the party rejects him at the convention. That’s not much to hang a hat on but it’s starting to look like her best option.

And even that might not be a viable option, said Joe Trippi. “Even if the catastrophic thing existed or happened, if she were perceived to have caused it, I think it would end her campaign too,”
Trippi said. I don’t think there’s any way now for her to gain the nomination. She’s at the point now where if she tries to make a case against Obama, it will actually speed up superdelegates joining his cause just to shut the campaign down.”

But Trippi notes that the Obama campaign and Democratic leaders are still likely to give Clinton the room she needs to go forward on her own terms, provided that she does so in a positive manner. “I think there’s lots of tolerance for her going on, running the table into the convention and having a presence there,” he said. “But if she actually tries to compete in the trenches for the nomination in a way that looks like it’s damaging the nominee … I don’t think there will be any tolerance for that at all.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/07/politics/main4078586.shtml


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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
9. Barack threw a monkeywrench in the line of succession.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. We live in a racist country.
Be careful how you phrase things about Barack Obama.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Need Jeb and Chelsea in there as well.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
32. I know. I just wish the SDs would put her out of her misery by endorsing Obama instead of
respecting her by waiting 'til June 4th to endorse Obama.
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Bigleaf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
35. Yep, it's been in the planning stages for awhile.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
18. Because it's true.
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Genevieve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. Actually, it's false.
NT
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
60. It's true.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #60
68. So you're saying nobody voted for Obama in Michigan?
Edited on Wed May-21-08 11:03 PM by Alexander
Especially since exit polls showed just over half of the Uncommitted voters supported him, and the other half Edwards, who just endorsed Obama?

Are you really trying to peddle this nonsense?
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #68
91. What was the final count for Obama in MI?
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #91
100. Apparently the same as the final count for him (and Hillary) in every CAUCUS state! She says every
vote should be counted, but she's sure selective in that! :eyes:
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. There are no "votes" in a caucus.
And you know that.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. Voters make their preference known. If Hillary wants everyone's voice to be heard, she can't choose
who she wants to hear from. And you know that.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #60
76. were it true she would be winning. the number doesn't include cuacus states but include MI and FL..
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. Except that it's not...
she got fewer votes than Obama. When you count every vote, OBAMA has more votes. But she doesn't count any caucus states.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Caucuses don't qualify as a popular vote count.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. FYI-NOTHING counts as a popular vote count in a primary. That's why we go by delegates.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #37
58. Superdelegates can take any metric into account, including the popular vote total.
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Genevieve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #58
70. Zogby: Obama 59% , to Clinton 33% (National)
LOL

Released: May 21, 2008

Obama Builds Lead Over Clinton in National Contest

As he moves ever closer to wrapping up the Democratic Party presidential nomination, Obama is also opening up a big lead over Clinton among Democrats nationwide. In a national preference test, he leads her by a 59% to 33% margin, the latest Reuters/Zogby poll shows.

He completely dominates among those voters under age 35, winning more than 80% support, but also leads among all voters under age 70, where she holds a solid advantage. Obama also now leads among almost all likely Democratic voters according to political philosophy – moderates, mainline liberals, and progressives. Clinton leads only among conservative Democrats.

Obama also leads Clinton among both Catholics and Protestants, and among those who claim no religious affiliation.

more:

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1511
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #70
88. NICE! Thanks for the dose of reality!
:hi:
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Genevieve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #88
92. ........
You're very welcome! :hi:

(whyTHEY refuse to see the truth is beyond me!) :crazy:
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. You should start a thread about that poll!
:hi:
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #58
78. Yeah. And if they DO, Obama is STILL leading regardless of your fuzzy math. They see through it.
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EffieBlack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. I'll bet she's counting the caucus votes that she got in her "popular vote count" total
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #39
50. damn good point
anyone check the numbers for another obvious hillary fantasy?
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mamalone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. Why??
Why don't they count as votes? Just because she says they don't count? Well she doesn't make reality... those votes count whether she wants them to or not.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #44
54. Don't be silly, voting is a private affair, where no one knows
who you voted for. A caucus is a grand bargaining bazaar, where people show up to organized chaos. If you support Kucinich you stand in one corner and hope enough stand with you to meet the 15% threshold. If your candidate, whether Biden, Dodd, or Edwards can't get or keep enough people in their "corner", those people become free agents. There is loud cajoling, peer pressure, threats, employers can be there observing, pretty much it is a free or all to entice the "free agents" to come and stand with them.

There is no comparison. There are time limits,usually just 2 or 3 hours to participate as opposed to the all day voting window.
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mamalone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. Excuse me.... Please do not call me silly.
Edited on Wed May-21-08 10:40 PM by mamalone
I understand what a caucus is. It may not be traditional voting, but it is voting nonetheless. I could argue that a vote at a caucus should count as more legitimate because of the time and effort required. But I am not in charge, I don't have the control to decide that one type of vote is more authentic than another. And guess what, Hillary may not like it, but she is not in charge of deciding which kinds of votes count and which ones do not.

The woman needs to grow up and act like an adult. Because right now she is sounding and acting like a 3yo who wants to stay up past her bedtime.
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Excuse me...Please do not say Hillary is acting like a 3 yo.
She is not in charge, but politics is about persuasion. That's what she is doing.

The reason you and many other Obama supporters are so upset is you see the power of the argument and are worried that she will be able

to pull this off.
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mamalone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. You are wrong.
The reason I am so upset is that her behavior is harming the party, and damaging our prospects against the repubs in November. I am also upset because I see a woman who I have long admired deteriorating before my very eyes. It is incredible to me that no one.. no one seems to care enough about her as a human being to step up and help her to see reality. You are right, that a part of politics is about persuasion, but these increasingly absurd arguments are not persuading anyone. She is making a fool of herself... because she is acting like a 3yo child having a tantrum.
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gort Donating Member (567 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #64
85. If politics are about persuasion than why do mock caucuses?
Obama 08
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gort Donating Member (567 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #64
86. If politics are about persuasion than why do you mock caucuses?
Edited on Thu May-22-08 11:18 AM by gort
Obama 08
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #86
90. For the next primary season caucuses need to go.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. That's next primary season. This is NOW. If Obama knew caucus states wouldn't really matter, he
would've had a whole different strategy. But he played by the rules and ran a winning strategy. Sorry!
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #93
104. Why are you always apologizing? Is it sincere? Because you don't need to apologize to me.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #54
101. we still vote though, you dillweed
it's the only way we had to vote. Those of us who took the time to do it spent a few hours doing it, and now we have some tsarina and her shills that wanna say it doesn't count and that 'elections' where there was no campaign, and in states that went out of turn, and where in one state there was only one name on the ballot - those 'elections' count because they properly selected the tsarina. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit and fuck her and the horse she rode in on and all her a$$wipe lying shills too.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
49. then you admit
the disengenuousness of claiming a "popular"vote win while claiming to at the same time be against disenfranchising democrats who FOLLOWED the rules?
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. No, the caucuses just don't count towards the popular vote total.
If Obama wants to make the argument that he won more caucuses and see if that carries any weight, he is free to do so.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. wow
the lengths you can go to bolster her failure are stalinist in proportion
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #56
80. They "just don't count" because the system isn't DESIGNED for the POPULAR VOTE to count. If so,
they WOULD keep track of the votes in the caucus states. Having EVERY vote count DOES include EVERY STATE.
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RichardRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #56
96. Baghdad Bob, is that you?? n/t
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #34
75. You really don't see the irony in that do you? n/t
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
23. Except for Obama, that is. Oh well.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Exactly. I wish one of his surrogates would say that!
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Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
29. She keeps saying it because no one has calls her on it.
Edited on Wed May-21-08 09:36 PM by Bensthename
And why? Who fuckin knows....
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. I've seen Olbermann, Abrams, even Candy Crowly call her on it. But it doesn't
get picked up any more widely than a minute by these people.
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Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. ya, I've heard them acknowledge it real quick and then move on.. They like this thing to keep going
I guess.. Makes no sense other wise..
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Yeah-like it's no big deal-just another lie on her way to the convention...
I REALLY wish a 527 would run an ad showing video of Hillary making contradictory statements-like saying she planned on running 'til Feb. 5th, everyone knows MI votes won't count for anything, etc.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
38. Yeah, yeah, hilary..you're just a legend in your own mind.
She sends flyers to me in the mail that say "We're going all the way" on the envelope.

I sent one back that said.."No you're not you lost! Obama is the winner and you're just bilking your supporters.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. I do the same thing via emails...
and get replies thanking me for my support. :eyes:
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
42. Have you heard her tearful followers on call-in shows?
They stammer off the latest talking point (the media has been SO sexist!) then pledge to never, ever vote for Obama. It's all emotional blackmail.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Yes! It makes me so mad!
Why won't the SDs END this nonsense already? They're walking on eggshells as so not to "upset" her or her supporters, but she's throwing around all these lies to try to diminish Obama.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. They're being played by the masters.
It's pretty sad. If this thing doesn't end soon they might not get over it in time but I think most will come to their senses. I honestly don't expect the Clintons to lift a finger to help though.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #53
82. Yeah. But I doubt it will go to the convention after listening to all the reporters who know the
Edited on Thu May-22-08 10:46 AM by jenmito
insiders in the Clinton camp.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
67. Sorry, but they're like a bunch
of sob sisters who are taking their movement back 60 years.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
48. it`s always been about her
she expected us to vote for her because she deserves to be elected. she`s so desperate that she is willing to ruin herself and the party....i`m getting to the point where she is no longer worthy of any respect.

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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
52. She has one of the highest negative ratings of any Democratic candidate
Edited on Wed May-21-08 10:11 PM by Old Crusoe
in my lifetime.

You'd probably have to go back to Lyndon Johnson in 1967-08 to get a negative response to match Hillary Clinton's, and of course Johnson took a look out the window at the cultural landscape and withdrew from consideration for the nomination in March of 68.

I am still waiting to hear a persuasive explanation of why Senator Clinton's supporters -- so avid and reactionary in cyberspace in 2008 -- were so reticent when Senator Carol Moseley-Braun sought the same office in 2004.
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SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
57. She brought back the 3/5 rule
Darn those clever Clintons.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
59. Seriously she has such a high fucking opinion of herself.
She thinks she's a combination of FDR, Jesus, and Joan of Arc.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
66. I didn't get this email
Come to think of it, I haven't received any emails from Hillary in a couple weeks. Has she taken me off of her list? :)
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #66
83. I remain on the list to see the latest outrageous claims they're making.
:)
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-21-08 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
71. Here is an interesting link, w/data back to the '72 primaries.
http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/article.php?id=FRC2008021901

Look at the last graph for various ways to figure popular vote counts.
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
74. Well in that case, More people have voted AGAINST her than anyone ever as well.
:)
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
79. I'm pretty sure FDR got more votes than Hillary.
Edited on Thu May-22-08 10:43 AM by Major Hogwash
But, Hillary probably threw her bookbag across the room when she found that out.

Poor, poor Hillary.
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
95. Dodged more bullets, too.
DLC triangulating liars, ya know *I* love 'em!

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. Yeah! (And like the Repubs. wouldn't use that against her just because the media didn't make a big
deal out of it?) Please. She's a lying opportunist.
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Hola Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
97. Other than Obama
She got more votes than anyone running for the Dem. nomination in the history of our party other than Obama

That's quite a thing for Obama. Imagine beating the a former first lady of a popular living president in his own party. Quite something.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. I REALLY wish the media would call her on her lies! Her supporters believe her, as seen right here!
They ARE less-educated, afterall.
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
105. Hillary: Narcissism combined with unbridled ambition.
she is a total embarrassment and has the potential of causing a great deal of harm.
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. Scary and true...
I agree.
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