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WaPo: Why Clinton Still Runs (to make Obama lose so she can say "I told you so" & run in 2012)

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:24 PM
Original message
WaPo: Why Clinton Still Runs (to make Obama lose so she can say "I told you so" & run in 2012)
Edited on Thu May-22-08 03:22 PM by Stephanie


Our worst suspicions are confirmed by these insiders, who believe she's willing to undermine Obama in hopes he loses, sacrificing the party, the nation, indeed the planet, just so she can have another shot in 2012.




http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/05/why_she_runs.html?nav=rss_email/components

Why Clinton (Still) Runs

Day after day, Hillary Rodham Clinton, her husband, former president Bill Clinton, and their daughter Chelsea -- travel the country stumping for support in a race that is, by almost any measure, over.

***

The consensus of the operatives' views about why Clinton continues the campaign are below....

* Out of Obligation: Clinton has been at this for the better part of the last two years, along with her staff and many of her supporters. The amount she has given to the process and the amount she has asked others to give means that Clinton sees it as an obligation to stay in the race through the end of the primary season. "She feels a responsibility to the party, the process and the people who have invested time and money on her behalf" to stick it out, explained former Democratic National Committee chairman and Clinton supporter Don Fowler. "I don't think there is a blind optimism or that she is fooling herself."

* Making the Brand: No one we talked to -- even those who clearly believe the fight for the Democratic nomination is over -- suggested that this race will be the end of Clinton's political life. The final weeks of this campaign then are as much about polishing -- and restating -- the Clinton brand for future endeavors as anything else. As one party strategist friendly to Clinton put it: "Fighting on reinforces the core brand and cements her status as the leader of lunch pail carrying, hard hat wearing, coffee drinking, pinochle playing working class Democrats." With Sen. Ted Kennedy (Mass.) -- long the voice of the "little guy" in the halls of Congress -- likely to take a step back from the Senate after his brain cancer diagnosis, an opening exists for Clinton to step into the void. Her demonstrated strength among white working class voters in Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and now Kentucky give her a real platform as the Senate's populist should she want to occupy it.

* Running Out The Clock: As we've noted in this space before, one of the defining lessons of the Clintons' time in elected office is that perseverance and endurance pay off. Although Clinton is running out of time, she and her campaign see little benefit to her dropping out of the race before it is mathematically impossible for her to get the nomination. While the campaign doesn't expect any major bombshell to emerge that will disqualify Obama (and isn't spending time looking for one), they also want to be ready if and when a game changing event occurs. One observer compared it to last week's Game 7 between the Boston Celtics and the Cleveland Cavaliers. The Cavs were down and not likely to win but spent the last 90 seconds of the game fouling and trying to make a comeback. A longshot? Yes. Worth doing? Absolutely.

* Whither Winning? Many Democrats not favorably disposed to Clinton like to compare her current plight to that of former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, who remained in the Republican race despite the fact that he had next to no chance of defeating John McCain in the fight for the nomination. The comparison fails, however, in one important aspect: Clinton continues to win, and win handily, while Huckabee was relegated to second place status throughout the final weeks of his campaign. Since March 4, Clinton has won the same number of contests (5) as Obama. From her perspective, then, there is no reason to leave the race now. She is likely to win Puerto Rico on June 1 and lose in South Dakota and Montana on June 3. At that point, it will turn into a superdelegate contest that is almost certain to go against her. But as long as she can continue to win primaries -- no matter how meaningless they are to the math equation that is the Democratic primary race -- and raise enough money to keep the campaign afloat, why not stay in?

* 2012!: For the last month or so a strain of thought has emerged among the Democratic political class that goes something like this: Clinton has not and will not lose the urge and drive to be president. She knows she can't win this time. So she will stay in the race long enough to be able to make the argument about Obama's weakness as a general election candidate but not so long as to poison the well among party activists and donors for a possible re-run bid in 2012 if the Illinois senator loses in November. "She's trying to pick exactly the right time when she can say 'I told you so' if Obama loses but still not take the blame for the loss," said one Democratic media consultant granted anonymity to speak candidly. "That means June as opposed to August. And she's thinking president again, period."








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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. It sucks but like all of hilary's big ideas it's
going to come back and bite her in her lyin', pandering, warmongering, lyin' ass.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. She wants to push Obama to the edge of the cliff, then say "I told you he couldn't WIN, Bill!"
I think she's actually evil.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. She's beyond evil and all the while
she sat in our Senate with her cunning ass just waiting to be inevitable and then along came Obama and we got to see just how cunning she can be.

Thankfully, all the evil is Swooping back on her.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
47. Just like Clintons did to Gore and then Kerry. Except now many of us Dems have figured out who
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Careful, Hillary...karma can be a beeyotch.
n/t
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. If she's trying to pick her nose, she's waaaaaay off!
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
38. She's miming goatse.cx
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. nope.. reminds me of this
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. She already Blew "Making the Brand"
Edited on Thu May-22-08 02:31 PM by IWantAnyDem
When she went all Godwin's law about the Florida vote, her brand took a huge hit.

Also, on the 2012 thing, she will take full blame for a loss if there is one as Obama supporters will point back to February as the time she should have exited. She was out of money and had lost 12 in a row. Any other candidate would have left the race then. She did not, and most of us will point to that as evidence that she deliberately sabotaged the general election as a bid for 2012.

I will hold a grudge against her forever.
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Kittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I was going to say...
LOL.

She did more to harm their name, than Bill's blowjobs did, IMO.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. An obscure historical fact
Edwards lost 12 in a row in 2004 and did not leave the race.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. He didn't attack Kerry during that time, though....


...and he didn't threaten to "take it to the convention".


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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. I actually think "making the brand" is the most plausible
and her case in FL is part of the branding the article is talking about: that she is willing to fight tooth and nail (and against all reason, and perhaps malevolently) for "little people" like elderly voters. If she wants to remake herself as the new Kennedy, she certainly has the political lineage for it, but she doesn't have the history of anti-poverty legislation, for example, to back it up. So this is a chance to remake herself into something she wasn't before, and that's a skill she is as adept at as Madonna.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. except she is always unconvincing when she remakes herself
even after working with an acting coach, none of her many personas were very convincing. Were you convinced by Emo Hillary? What about Shame on You Hillary?
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. "Shame on You" Hillary was very convincing
But I know what you mean. I'm saying, though, that throughout her career in the public eye she has had many different guises and it's not outside the realm of possibility that she can and will do it again.
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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. I wish she'd go back to 'As far as I know' Hillary....that one really hurt her.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. It hurt her here, but do you think most people really knew it even happened?
Edited on Thu May-22-08 11:15 PM by Stephanie
So much of this is inside baseball.
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. Only one huge problem for her with her philosophy... I bet many Obama supporters...
would not vote for her in 2012 after the crap she has pulled off during the Primary.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. She is going to have a hard time keeping her Senate seat in 2012.
Regardless of whether Obama wins or not, she has alienated too many of us, her seat is in jeopardy now.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. "her seat is in jeopardy now"
Hell, I'm going to save and send my tax rebate to her primary challenger for the Senate in 2012.

She shames my gender. :(
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griffi94 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. unfortunately that cuts both ways
i saw a poll a couple of days ago, that showed 20% of hillarys voters won't vote obama.
it's time like these i remember why i'm a democrat. it's always so thrilling to be ahead all the way and then somehow blow it at the end.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. i know
devastating grief becomes a sort of familiar friend
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MarjorieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. She already won what she could by the old brand and name recognition.
Thinking it's all on her own would be deluded.

I also contend that Bittergate, Wrightgate, Naftagate, with her push and Rendell's hold down the vote help in PA, still resulted in decent single digits for Obama. People want to like and support him.

What I'll remember is the craven tricks. No Dem uses the race card as she did, and then says just politics. Where can she get the support in 2012 with such campaign mismanagement.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. And then expects it to be forgotten and wants a reward on top of it
Her behavior is appalling. And I have faith that Obama is too smart to give her anything she doesn't deserve.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. We have already seen based on her IWR vote that her judgment
is unsound. Hillary has already poisoned the well of Democratic Activists. No one will forget what she has done. Ask my daughters.

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Her judgement is unsound, her execution is incompetent, her truthfulness is suspect.
She shares many attributes with the Bush administration.
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noel711 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
19. Why would Clinton think that anyone would vote for her in 2012..
after she's pulled all this bullshit?

She certainly thinks we are stupid..
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. They convinced many Dens it was Gore's fault in 2000, and Kerry's fault in 2004 - McAuliffe went
around saying that both Gore and Kerry would have won by 15% if he had run their campaigns. He put up the idea that Dems can only win with Clintons.

Unfortunately, too many Dems believed that line of crap, and never considered that the DNC collapsed party infrastructure in many crucial states like Florida and Ohio, and couldn't provide any control over the election process that the RNC oversaw at every level where the votes were allowed, cast and counted.

Some of us believe those state party infrastructures were collapsed DELIBERATELY to protect Bush till Hillary can replace him to continue the coverups for BushInc and their powerful cronies, just like Bill did throughout the 90s.
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. You know a lot of people's eyes have been opened by the truth lately
She has played her hand and revealed the cards openly to the public on exposed
herself on how she plays the game.
Many thought she didn't cheat at Poker people now can finally see the cards are from a trick deck
.Obama is an excellent poker player
in his strategies and in real life.

The Clintons have been playing with marked cards for years given to them by the Bush Crime Family.

Now, I could have been nasty but they cheat at cards, they try to bluff and now have no money
in the pot or their pockets.
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #23
41. In other words, Gore and Kerry must know this betrayal
of both, their candidacies and the party itself, took place.

And if they know, other high-profile democrats are certainly cooperating with the Bush/Clinton merger too.

A constant charade to cover up each other's crimes...

It all makes sense if you put the pieces together that way, doesn't it? Wow.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. And why Kerry has been working to help Obama long before his official endorsement.
Kerry had built a national political network in 2004 and has been using it to help Obama.
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blonndee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's all about Hillary.
So this: "She feels a responsibility to the party, the process and the people who have invested time and money on her behalf" is all BULLSHIT. Clearly she has no regard for the party OR the process, seeing as how she is willing to go back on a SIGNED pledge (isn't she a lawyer?) regarding election rules.

As for "the brand": The Clintons have done nothing but tear down their "brand" this season. They've shown themselves to be pandering, consummate politicians and disloyal ones at that. It's not too late for them to recover. Americans are very forgiving and all about second chances (see Ted Kennedy) but they are skirting the limits here. Much further and she'll be lucky to keep her Senate seat. The Clintons ended with a good legacy--which is now in question. Could go either way.

As for "running out the clock"? Both reinforces the GOOD idea of the Clintons as "fighters" and the BAD idea of Clintons as scheming, greedy politicians. Lately, the possibility of being exposed as "cheaters" (not too far removed from "liars") has emerged (slowly, IMO). Also reinforces negative perception of the Clintons.

"Whither Winning" and "2012"? For me? Obvious. No question. Since it IS all about the Clintons, I have no doubt it is now all about 2012. EVERYTHING she is doing has nothing to do with today. She lost this time, but in her mind, SHE IS NOT A LOSER! SHE MUST WIN! I am firmly convinced that her actions TODAY are all about 2012.
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Andy823 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
25. I think she already
Poisoned the well! Just like with all her other little political "games" she played this year, she has gone to far. She just can't stop, and that's going to be her downfall. If Obama does not win against McCain, she will be the reason, and the majority of democrats "WILL" remember that in 2012!
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
26. thanks for the update Steph
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
27. I'm not going to invite an arsonist back to my house for a barbecue
Her chances are zero of making it this far in 2012, 2016, or 3016 after this year's debacle. Democrats who will forgive and forget four years from now will be a rare breed (except on the hillaryis45 forum, of course).
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
28. I don't think this is true
After the antics of 2008 she already has a huge chuck of the party against her.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
29. She can't win in 2012 either - too much money was wasted for nothing in 2008.
All she has done is remove the gag from Bubba's mouth and expose himself as a racist.
Hillary is also a racist.

Neither one of them condemned what Ferraro said, and what Ferraro said was clear as glass - straight out of the KKK playbook - racist bullshit!!
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Neither did bar these signs from their controlled indoor rallies
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Liberal Gramma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
32. Here is where I disagree with Obama
She's NOT likeable enough.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
33. She's shown herself to not be ready for prime time.
Her kamikaze campaign will result in the end of her own political career, self-inflicted in that wonderful karmic kind of way, and Obama will prevail in spite of her best efforts to hamstring him.

It is already written.
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grassfed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
36. She will be stunned by the bottomless depths of loathing for her if and when her delusion lifts
but there will be no sympathy or forgiveness. We turn our backs to her.

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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
37. Obama will lose in November. The only way he can win is add
Edited on Thu May-22-08 11:37 PM by BenDavid
HRC to his ticket. If he does not and whether it be truth or rumor that gets out to HRC's supporters that it was he, obama that forced folks not to vote for her as the vp then obama you have assured yourself a loss in November......If on the other hand yo ass really wants to win, then you better be as smart as some of your folks in here believe you are and add her to the ticket.

You cannot connect with the common man or woman in america. Hell, the last several state elections should tell you the hard working class person does not see in you one that will fight for them. You are basically one of the elitist crowd, and this is the same damn group of sorry bastards and bastardrettes that hated Bill Clinton..... Here is a quote that should open the eyes of you obama folk.

This is why Democrats lose elections. The elite is always "above" doing anything that might appeal to THOSE PEOPLE. ..This is part of the reason the Washington elite hated Bill Clinton.A Democrat who appeals to the common man? No no, can't have that!" -

Now remove the name Bill Clinton and add Hillary Clinton and her voters and supporters are from that group of folks the so called elite do not like. The common man and woman. The hard working blue collar person, whether they be white black red brown yellow. If obama cannot attract that % of folks then I doubt serious he will find enough states to replace, ohio, pa., florida, west virginia, kentucky....all these states will be in play if obama does one smart thing and adds HRC to his ticket....otherwise...

OBAMA CAN KISS THE BABY.......

Shalom
Ben David
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #37
42. "yo ass" ???
get the fuck out of here you racist POS.
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Secret_Society Donating Member (466 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
39. 100% disagree
Chuck Todd made an interesting point on Tuesday. HRC and Bill need to absolutely do everything they can to make sure Obama wins because if he loses they will be blamed and they, and their legacies, will be tarnished. Hopefully she'll be VP while helping him win.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. She's got a better shot at McCain's VP
She doesn't belong anywhere on the Democratic ticket.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
45. If we collect $20 Million and give it to her will she go away?
and take the rest of the DLC with her?


No mention of the DLC vs. the Democratic wing of the Democratic party thing?
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
46. How did they get a photo of Hillary right after she took a hit of Amyl Nitrate?!
Edited on Fri May-23-08 12:20 PM by TexasObserver
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mamalone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
48. Does anyone else find this part particularly...icky...?
With Sen. Ted Kennedy (Mass.) -- long the voice of the "little guy" in the halls of Congress -- likely to take a step back from the Senate after his brain cancer diagnosis, an opening exists for Clinton to step into the void. Her demonstrated strength among white working class voters in Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and now Kentucky give her a real platform as the Senate's populist should she want to occupy it.

Maybe I'm being a wee bit oversensitive due to her infamous comments yesterday, but does this sound a bit hard hearted and even.. goulish... to anyone else?



Man-O-man I have having a real hard time even tolerating this woman these days...
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