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HRC is a liar. So is her husband.

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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:46 PM
Original message
HRC is a liar. So is her husband.
She agreed going into this that Florida and Michigan wouldn't count and NOW, just because it's to her advantage, she wants to go back on her word.

I've had it with being lied to by slimy politicians and have come to the conclusion that Bill and Hil are birds of a feather who are using the democratic party for themselves and don't give a rat's ass about this country.

And I really don't care who knows my thoughts on this anymore.

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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. the biggest lie purported to the democrats was the idea that somehow
Edited on Thu May-22-08 05:52 PM by BenDavid
obama wanted to unite us.....hell, this election was won until bho decided he just had to unite the party...he has done one hell of a job doing that, right......
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PoliticalAmazon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. You can't blame Obama for Hillary's divisive behavior and vailures...
SHE has repeatedly insulted Obama supporters; he has not once insulted or said one bad thing about her supporters. She repeatedly panders to bigots, lies and scams.

THAT is Hillary's fault. Not Obama's. It's HER fult.

As is her nearly fraudulent waste of campaign funds.
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VotesForWomen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
81. i'd say calling anyone who doesn't vote for O racists, bitches, and man-haters is a little divisive.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. Where has their campaign done that?
Oh right, nowhere.

I'm sorry, but I don't hold Clinton accountable for DU Clinton supporters and I don't hold Obama accountable for DU Obama supporters.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #81
97. And calling women who don't choose to vote for this particular
woman "sexist", not too cool, either.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. uniters of a feather.......didn't our current nightmare in the WH claim to be a "uniter?
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Please be fair. Obama is not the one bitching about this, we are.
He asked us to be nice.

This is frustrating for all of us, I hope it's over with soon.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. Stop sticking to the point.
HRC's folks hate that.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Fuck the Clintons and their overinflated sense of entitlement.
They don't own this party and sure as hell aren't entitled to my vote.

Hillary has been as gracious in this campaign as Paris Hilton on a bender.

As a person, she disgusts me and as a candidate, I find her repulsive beyond belief.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
87. strong words, but I agree.
no politicians have made me as sick as the clintons and the bushes - and their minions.

please someone put them out of our misery - i would love to not hear those names ever again - exile them to the moon.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Just as a change of pace ...
Edited on Thu May-22-08 05:58 PM by NanceGreggs
... why don't you respond to the point made in the OP?

Hillary pledged that the votes in FL and MI would not be counted. Now she says that they must be counted, and this issue is "very important to her".

Was she lyin' then, or is she lyin' now?

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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Nance, you will never get an answer out of BD.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. Oh, I'm certain I've been on his Ignore list for eons now ...
... but I can't help myself. His pretzel logic is so entertaining!
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ForeignSpectator Donating Member (970 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #25
69. You find this entertaining? Like "anywheresdaughter"'s reply... oh my.
These posts are so dumb, I have to take a break from DU once in a while. Or maybe I should start using Ignore.

But you find this entertaining? How do you manage?
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. Entertaining in that he's almost a parody ...
I especially like when he rants and raves, spews all kinds of vitriol, promotes the most divisive positions - and then signs off with "shalom".
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ForeignSpectator Donating Member (970 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #72
80. Now that made me laugh out loud! "and then signs off with 'shalom'"...
thanks for that! :hi:

I guess, I can't handle that too well because deep down I am very worried that this kind of stupidity will be the reason for another great oppurtunity missed in November. And everytime I see it displayed, I am like "oh my...." :banghead:
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greguganus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
67. He's a hit and run poster. n/t
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. She pledged no such thing
she pledged that she wouldn't campaign in Florida, and she didn't.

Obama did, though.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. " it's clear this election they're having isn't going to count for anything." - HRC 10/11/07
So she lied.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. That's not the pledge
that was her estimation of where things stood.

It wasn't a binding declaration.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. Don't bandy words with me, Monky....she is in context speaking of Michigan election.
And saying it doesn't count for anything.

She doesn't give a shit about Michigan. She never did. She certainly didn't then.

Her sudden interest in the "principles of democracy" is as phony as her sniper tale or her sudden dislike of NAFTA which she praised time and again until she ran for president.

She's a user. She changes her story and position so often that her core values are now in question.

She's scaring the hell out of us that know we can't afford four more years and the ONLY way she can win this primary is to sway enough superdelegates to short circuit the process with a specious "popular vote" argument that disenfranchises the caucus states completely.

So is that what you want? Do you REALLY want to disenfranchise the caucus states that played by the party rules?

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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
40. Hillary Clinton in late 2007 interview on MI primary ...
"It's clear. This election they're having is not going to count for anything."

That quote has been posted, reposted, and posted again - but apparently not enough times to sink in.

Perhaps you can provide a link to a statement from Hillary (before she realized she needed the votes in MI and FL) declaring that although she signed the pledge, she understood that votes from those primaries would be counted?

I guess we're back to the ever-changing definition of what "is" is ...
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Post it all you want
that wasn't the pledge. It was a description, not a binding declaration.

That's an awfully thin reed to hang your argument on.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. The fact that she STATED unequivocally ...
... that the MI primary wouldn't count, and now she's saying the exact opposite?

Okey-dokey. I thought blatantly lying was a pretty strong reed - but apparently it means nothing to the Hill campers.

Kinda like lying about sniper-fire - doesn't register either ...

But I'll ask again anyway: Any links to statements by Hillary (pre-losing) that she thought the votes in FL and MI would be counted despite the pledge?
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. And Obama said "he'd do right" by Florida voters
Edited on Thu May-22-08 08:03 PM by MonkeyFunk
just a blatant lie, I guess.

Obama's parents met in Selma, thanks to JFK? Big fat blatant liar, I guess.

Your request for a link is just dumb. I didn't claim she said she such a thing -and nothing she said or didn't say changes the situation one whit. Just like Obama promising to do right by Florida voters isn't legally enforceable.

It just amazes me the lengths so-called Democrats want to go to to disenfranchise two large swing states. It's not just undemocratic, it's just politically stupid.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. FL and MI will be dealt with ...
... in due time, and you know that. They just won't have their votes counted as-is - which is the ONLY reason Hillary discovered how "important this issue" is to her.

And I don't understand why it's "dumb" to ask when Hillary became so insistent that FL and MI should be counted. I think the voters have a right to be suspicious of the intentions of someone whose heartfelt concern for the voters of these two states only surfaced when she realized she NEEDED them in order to stay viable.

Where was her grave concern for "all of the votes being counted" pre-Super Tuesday, when she thought she'd have things "all wrapped up"? Didn't hear a peep out of her re FL and MI back in those days.
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habitual Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #53
84. and may i add
when she said this

"It's clear. This election they're having is not going to count for anything."

she did not, at that point, add anything in there about her deep feeling that all the votes should be counted and how this was wrong, so very wrong. She supposedly cares so much about this, but then she just let it slide? NO WAY. But now, since she is losing, all of the sudden it is the most important issue facing our nation. But then, it was just not going to count for anything, oh well. By the argument that she was just assessing the situation and it was non-binding is true, she assessed that it was fine then to keep the numbers the way they were, when everything seemed in her favor (happily traveling along towards sealing it on Feb 5th and not allowing the rest of the states to matter in the selection process.) Now, of course, every state has to have their say and have an influence and MI and FL are being denied her deep felt feeling for their right to have every vote counted. It's all she has, so she has assessed that it is time to pretend to feel this way. It is calculated and meant to deceive people. Grrrrrr.

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here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
43. Got a link to that there claim, crap flinger?
And no, dont pull out some national ad buy as if...

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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. LOL
Oh, so you you can say he didn't run any ads in Florida except for the ads that ran in Florida?

Why can't I mention a national ad buy? None of the other candidates did it. Why did he run them just a couple days before the Florida primary? He couldn't wait a few more days?

And crap-finger? What kind of juvenile horseshit is that, Here_is_to_hope?

Hope my ass. You guys are trying to run a campaign on hate and lies.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
85. I will have to get a better handle on this fight in Florida. I didn't
know this. Thanks for sharing.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
37. I believe the pledge they all signed was that they would not
campaign in FL and MI, whether by appearing in the states to campaign or by advertising. The pledge did not state that they would not count any of the votes. After all, that would not be up to the candidates. They could only give assurances as to their own behavior. They were not paying personally for these primaries. BTW, who did pay for the primaries? I believe it was the states involved. If so, you cannot hold the voters personally responsible for what was done without their input, as the states obviously thought they were paying good money for a primary that would count.

The pledge did not state that they would not have their names on the ballot either. That was left up to the candidates. Hillary kept her name on both ballots. Obama took his off in MI, as did Edwards, Biden and Richardson. All candidates names were left on in FL, and, as everybody knows, Obama did advertise in FL.

I don't believe any of the candidates believed that these votes would count in the long run, because a dem primary has not gone on this long in a while. They all could easily have believed that the delegates would be seated at the convention, and should have acted accordingly. No one should want two important states like MI and FL to be left out in the rain.

You should all admit to yourselves that if the advantage were Obama's, you'd be singing a different tune. These are Hillary's votes and you know it. Even now, there could be a revote, but Obama won't agree to it. Some democrats!
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. That's very Clintoneque of you to argue that way, however her own words....
...indicate she went into this contest with the knowledge that those votes would not count:



"Well, you know, people in Michigan are flat on their backs. They have the highest unemployment rate in America. They are now grappling finally with what they are going to do with the auto industry. 1 in 10 jobs in America is tied to the auto industry which is -- the American auto industry, which as we know is centered in Michigan. You know, it's clear this election they're having isn't going to count for anything. But I just personally didn't want to set up a situation where the Republicans are going to be campaigning between now and whenever. And then after the nomination we have to go in and repair the damage and be ready to win Michigan in November 2008."
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #37
65. such bullshit...
why do you think that any "Democratic candidate" has any right to go against the "Democratic Party Rules"?
And how many times does the fact that the DNC approved the Obama Campaigns National Ad buy have to be repeated? How many times?


Editorial: Follow DNC rules on seating delegates
February 25, 2008
By Editorial Board

On September 1, the campaigns of Clinton and Senator Barack Obama (D-Ill.) issued press releases stating that they had signed pledges affirming the DNC’s decision to approve certain representative states and sanction others for moving their nominating contests earlier. But now that the race is close, Clinton — whose top advisor Harold Ickes voted as a member of the DNC to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates — is pushing for the delegates to be seated.
Her argument is that not doing so disenfranchises the 1.7 million Florida Democrats who voted and that her pledge promised only that she wouldn’t campaign in the states, not that she wouldn’t try to seat the delegates. However, the results of the contests in Florida and Michigan are not necessarily representative of the voters’ preferences in those states. Given that most of the candidates removed their names from the
Michigan ballot, and that many voters stayed home from the vote in Florida with the understanding that their contest would not affect the final delegate count, the delegate totals that the candidates accumulated in these states may not accurately reflect the will of the voters. Had there been no restrictions in Michigan and Florida, the turnout, and thus the results, may have been different.

The Four State Pledge all candidates signed on Aug. 28 stated, “Whereas, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will strip states of 100% of their delegates and super delegates to the DNC National Convention if they violate the nomination calendar...


Therefore, I ____________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules ...pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window.” When the candidates pledged to campaign only in approved states, they were also agreeing to the terms listed above, which explicitly mentioned stripping noncompliant states of their entire delegation.



House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) recently said that the Florida and Michigan delegates should not be seated if they would decide the nomination. Other compromise proposals include holding new nominating contests in these states, but such contests would be expensive and cumbersome. The irony is that had Florida and Michigan not moved up their primaries, they would have voted in February and March, when they would have been even more important than in earlier months in determining the Democratic nominee — and would not have created an enormous controversy that has the potential to divide the party.
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2008/2/25/editorialFollowDncRulesOnSeatingDelegates

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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #37
91. You are right - those votes do belong to Hillary
Certainly the 55% of the votes and delegates she earned.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
52. both. She lies as a matter of course. It is genetic with her.
Has been for several decades. When she talks about 35 years of experience for change, it really means she has, for 35 yrs, changed the truth to something she can mangle.

she is a liar, a deceitful, mendacious, dissembling, vile, spinner. And frankly, Bill has been more honest than she, not that it means that much anymore.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
68. I don't believe she lied, what has happened here is not a lie but
an obvious change of mind, its obvious too that she felt or her campaign felt she needed to change her mind...I have changed my mind many times, I didn't consider it lying then nor do I now, a lie is easy to disguinish, sadly saying she lied is nothing more than pettiness..

Now one could say that she changes her mind on a whim, but I don't believe this was a whim, actually I would hate to have a president who is unable or unwilling to changer his or her mind and be unwilling to change course..

Oh wait, we have that now, not working out to well for us..

I love your work Nance and think you have a flair not many do and I so enjoy your work., even you should know, what happened here was not lying.

Make people focus Nance on the real prize and the real fight, you have a way about you, if we continue down this road we will surely lose and they will once again steal it right out from under us....unite us...we need uniters...
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #68
78. Thanks, Aunt Patsy, for your kind response.
Edited on Fri May-23-08 02:47 AM by NanceGreggs
I would only ask one thing: Do you honestly believe that if MI and FL had gone overwhelmingly for Obama, Hillary would now be demanding that their votes be counted? Do you believe that if polls were taken today and both states showed landslide victories for Obama, Hillary would get on-board with a revote?

There is a difference, IMHO, between changing one's mind because they now perceive things differently, and changing one's mind only when it benefits oneself to do so.

Hillary didn't have "second thoughts" about her stance on these two states not being counted - until she realized she NEEDED those votes to stay viable.

I'm sorry, but I see her sudden epiphany on this topic just a tad too convenient to her own purposes.

In addition, this is not a matter of "changing one's mind" about a policy or previously-held position. This is a matter of having agreed to binding rules and then, when you are losing according to those rules, insisting that they be changed to accommodate your "new" position on the matter - and if that change benefits you personally, it's to be viewed by all as just a happy coincidence.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #78
82. Is it true that Sen Obama campaigned in Florida after he said he would not?
And I understand how her actions leaves one a bit unnerved, considering the times we have been forced to live through and the damage that has been so universal I can seriously understand the outrage, suspicion and frustration can make one a bit un rational but I firmly believe Sen Clinton to be a Dem and though I am suspect of her true intentions I also have reservations toward Obama and I was not totally impressed with Kunich considering some of the things he said left me wondering about him as the whole package.

I can understand though if someone wanted to win bad enough and thought they deserved that win I could easily see someone changing their mind, I honestly don't see her actions as a lie and it's deceiving for someone to call it such...again, did Sen Obama truly campaign in Florida after stating he would not?

It worries me a bit to say the least the out and out hate being thrown at the clintons all of a sudden since just two short years ago, Pres. Bill clinton was the darling of du, seems some changed their minds rather drastically, now even poor Chelsea is getting the same treatment that people such as Limpart had given her, disappointing to say the least, one of the reasons I used to love Du so much was that I did not have to be subject to such cowardly and ignorant venomous rhetoric concerning a Dem...
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Barack Obama is out to unite America
sorry if this wrecked your plans.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. You sound like a spoiled brat throwing shit on the walls and blaming the maid ...
... who was hired to keep your sty clean.

Guess what? The call for "unity" is an INVITATION, not a "gift." It's NOT an invitation to LYNCH him ... and NOT an invitation to slander him ... and NOT an invitation (a la Cheney/Bush) to "take it or leave it." It's an invitation to PARTICIPATE in your own self-governance and surrender the "fuck you unless I get mine" selfish brat mode.

Obama's call for "unity" is a call to discard the partisan "wedge issue" politics that will FOREVER (like the Civil War) have a DISGRUNTLED minority who become the "single issue" voters. It's not a "bend over and screw me" offer.

Grow the fuck up!

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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. Hillary Clinton is the epitome of the divisive figure...
and has been throughout her career. She BELIEVES in it as the only way to WIN. Screw unity, I want to be (First Lady of Arkansas, First Lady of the U.S., Senator from NY, President...) She screwed up health care with her own narcissistic need for control. You can have her, I don't want her, she's too bad for me.

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. Talk about non-sequiturs
so a variety of people are not supposed to run for president in a democracy.

That someone can declare themselves a winner by February 5, with nowhere near all the voters having voted?

That Obama held a gun to everyone's heads, and they had no choice in selecting him?

Good grief!



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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
50. what utter bullshit. Almost like AIPAC, PNAC, AEI is writing your script
Shame on you. go play in your sandbox and leave us democrats alone.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
51. The race baiter BenDavid is IgSnored
Thanks for crawling out from your rock so I could bop a bigot.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
64. Don't lose the Hope, man. Remember the Hope and Change. I mean a Change you can Believe in!
Edited on Thu May-22-08 11:03 PM by Skip Intro

Can you Hope? Do you want Change? Let me here ya. A lot of people say we can't do this - we can't have hope, we can't make change. Well you know, I got one more slogan, er, I mean one thing to say to them. Yes we can! Comeon, say it with me. YES WE CAN. Yes we can have Hope. Yes we can make Change.

Hope Hope Hope! Change Change Change!


Thank you all for coming out....and now, here's Hootie and the Blowfish...
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
66. Keep watching!


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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
94. Ahem...

HRC is a liar. So is her husband.



.......That's the current topic. Promote some of your famous "unity" and attempt to discuss it.

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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. I saw Primary Colors for the first time about 3 weeks ago. Although that is
fiction, that is now how I see both Clintons. If you haven't seen it, rent it.

That IS the Clintons. A lot of us have come to the "Kathy Bates" realization.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I'm with the Bates character.
I also watched it a few weeks ago, and it was a real eye-opener, wasn't it?

Creepy, too. The "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" line sounded, well, familiar. So did the plotline of "We have to destroy our opponent to save the party, because even though he's winning, he won't win in November."
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. It turns my stomach that I spent all those years defending the Clintons.
Granted, a lot of shit said about them wasn't fair or right, but the right wing was right about one thing: the Clintons shouldn't be trusted.
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. Bamboozled -- Hoodwinked - Obama style
Iowans are by and large straightforward people. Given that, it should come as no surprise that to the average Iowan, the Michigan ballot situation seems pretty cut and dried: Democratic presidential hopefuls who honor their four-state pledge and support the nomination calendar won't be on the Wolverine State's ballot. As with most things in life, and especially politics, the situation is more complicated.

Five individuals connected to five different campaigns have confirmed -- but only under condition of anonymity -- that the situation that developed in connection with the Michigan ballot is not at all as it appears on the surface. The campaign for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, arguably fearing a poor showing in Michigan, reached out to the others with a desire of leaving New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton as the only candidate on the ballot. The hope was that such a move would provide one more political obstacle for the Clinton campaign to overcome in Iowa.

A person close to the Dodd campaign said the push to make Clinton look bad in Iowa and the feeling of being played "like a political pawn" were items discussed by the campaign. But, standing on principle isn't always a comfortable position.

http://iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1264
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. One blogger says so. It must be true.
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Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Sorry but Dodd is an Obama supporter.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. If you're going to go Blog-Bottom-Feeding, try to get something more reputable.
:puke:

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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. rumors, gossip, hearsay. You souldn't base your decision on that but, even GIVEN that
how does it change the allegation in the OP.

And why shouldn't we all be pissed?

Obama put toether a team of professionals, they looked at the rules, they determined BY FOLLOWING THE RULES, they could maybe put together a nomination.

Now Clinton comes in and says "the rules don't count. Do it my way or I blow up the party."

You know, if I didn't feel so strongly about my party, my country and the fact that I believe she cannot win in November, I'd say "fine, have at it. I'm staying home, I'm giving no money. But if it is that important to you, fine."

But I do care. Not about Obama but now about keeping her away from ANY power. She's acting plain nuts-zo.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. Liberal Veteran judges others without posting any links to attempt
to prove his/her case.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Here's a link for you
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. I wonder if NH is regreting voting for Hillary?
Sheesh, they asked her to take her name off the ballot in MI, she refused saying "it makes not difference if my name is on the ballot or not because the results don't count" so they give her the victory and now look what she goes and does!
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. I don't have to prove it. It's been posted here time and time again.
"Well, you know, people in Michigan are flat on their backs. They have the highest unemployment rate in America. They are now grappling finally with what they are going to do with the auto industry. 1 in 10 jobs in America is tied to the auto industry which is -- the American auto industry, which as we know is centered in Michigan. You know, it's clear this election they're having isn't going to count for anything. But I just personally didn't want to set up a situation where the Republicans are going to be campaigning between now and whenever. And then after the nomination we have to go in and repair the damage and be ready to win Michigan in November 2008."

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. She lied when said the votes didn't count and she lied on the stump about snipergate.
She's a liar.

Cope.

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Can you cope with Obama's lies?
about Rezko, Ayers, and Wright? And shit, there's more than that.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Yeah....want me to start dragging up Wal-Mart and some of the Arkansas unsavories from HRC's past?
You can play guilt by association to the end of days, but the lies from Clinton come from her.
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #34
56. you need to think
Don't you think she believed what she said when she said that the votes wouldn't count? And if she believed that what she was saying was true, then she didn't lie. It's not rocket science.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. prediction: obama will be in this same boat in a few years
that's what happens when you expect politicians to be gods instead of humans.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. I don't have a crystal ball, but I can tell what I see now and HRC is a liar.
That's a fact.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. I don't lie like this, do you? n/t
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
89. no, nor do i invite homophobes to share the stage at my poetry events
especially since i am gay.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. Hiya, stranger!
:hug: :hug: :loveya: :hi:

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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
92. hi tahiti nut
mike :loveya: how the hell are you? i am doing fine.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
55. Unless he wins, in which case it'll be within the year
Bank. On. It.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #55
90. yes...it won't take long
a year sounds about right. i am taking note of those here who i think will be among the first deserters.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. "A mob that is with you is still a mob." - John Adams
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. kismet...someone was just writing about the mob mentality
Edited on Fri May-23-08 04:29 PM by noiretblu
on DU and elsewhere.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
57. Riiiight..hilary not a god so it's okay for her to be a liar.
Excuses Excuses Excuses on why hilary's such a fucked up liar.
















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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #57
88. actually, dear overwrought obama worshipper
my point is that obama isn't a god, and once he makes a human nistake, some of you overwrought obama worshippers will be the among the first to turn on him. he can do no wrong now cast against the terminally evil hillary clinton and her "racist" husband, bill. however, once his magic wears off, predictably, he will lose some support.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #17
77. Bingo. n/t
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1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
32. Just posted the same feeling..........
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
33. I'm beginning to think it was Hillary behind all that lying Bill did in the 90s.
Until this year, I never realized what an incredible and chronic liar Hillary is. I knew she was a self important, delusional, resume stuffing egomaniac, but I never realized she lives to LIE.

She really is emotionally unwell. Anyone who lies that much when they know video is running is simply incapable of stopping.
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DemVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
44. How do you feel about Obama's many lies? Hmm?
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #44
76. Obama has NEVER lied and is ALWAYS 100% truthful...Oh, wait.
He's a politician. That's right.

They ALL lie. They will say and do ANYTHING to get elected and then to stay in power.

Anyone who thinks Obama is any different from any other Washington politician is deluded. There will be a mighty crash when people see him fall off that implausably high pedestal atop of which they have placed him.
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Clear Blue Sky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
45. She made the agreement early when it suited her current position and plans.
Well...things have changed. so she has a new position.

She was against counting MI/FL delegates before she was for it...
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
54. outright ruthless liars
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. Yes, The Clintons: low life gutter-fighters who will do ANYTHING but believe in absolutely NOTHING.
Edited on Thu May-22-08 10:48 PM by ShortnFiery
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
58. Yes, they are both insufferable human animal hybrids...
:eyes:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
59. The Clintons have elevated lying to an art form.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
61. That's so true. Total, selfish, and self-absorbed. Bush-Clinton 2008
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Rene Donating Member (758 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
62. you need to read www.attacktimeline.com to see who's actually been
difixive and the race baiter in this contest - obama. very karl-rovian, smelly techniques with msm collusion. He's an empty resume...a manufactured product from kingmakers.
indecisive...thus 120 PRESENT votes where he made no decisions on the record. Never held ONE meeting for the only committee he heads (oversight of NATO and thus Afghanistan)
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #62
70. Don't confuse them with facts.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #62
96. this is my fear about obama
"He's an empty resume...a manufactured product from kingmakers."
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
63. "I've had it with being lied to"
Edited on Thu May-22-08 10:58 PM by depakid
Every time Obama mouths off about "universal health care" he's lying to you.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
71. But you accept Obama's lies so easily.
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
73. I could care less about her trying...it's the reasons she's giving that pisses me off. n/t
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
74. Obama wants Florida and Michigan to count now too. Waddup wit dat?
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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
75. I think they are both wonderful people.
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VotesForWomen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
79. you really don't care if we lose the GE, do you? re the 'agreement,' you see what you want to see.
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
86. K & R
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
98. Its to her advantage ?
Its her only chance, at least she thinks so.... Lol

Roger Hussein Fox.
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
99. kick
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