Those that oppose an Obama Clinton Ticket- WHY?

What is the reason you oppose an Obama/Hillary ticket

damn those DU errors

I'd still vote for it, but it is one of the weaker ticket options out there.

Her lies, her willing ness to do anything to get elected (ex. seat Fl/MI as they are), her use of Republican tactics and calling McCain stronger than Obama, not standing up for her fellow Dem when he was under constant attack (Wright) and even adding fuel to the fire (I wouldn't have sat there for 20 years), her hand in so many lobbyists pocket, insulting activists (Move On), using sexism to her "advantage", the list goes on, and on, and on.............oh, and the clincher for me??? Ms. "Obliterate Iran".

http://blogs.chron.com/nickanderson/archives/2006/10/hi...

so far, i don't believe i've heard obama mention a single one of these issues. i know that the republicans won't be so quiet....

Whitewater
Monica
Wal-Mart
Presidential Pardons
Rose Law Firm
Vince Foster's Death
$100+ Million
Paula
Travel Office Firings
IWR Vote
It Takes a Village
Bill
"HE BRINGS A SPEECH"
The Impeachment

that would ALL come out with the Repubs or with the 527s.

Look at how much comedy fodder editorial cartoonists and late-night talk show hosts have got out of her in the last few weeks. I'm sure this will shape people's opinions of her negatively. Once the meme gets out there that Hillary is, not to put too fine a point on it, batshit insane, it's going to be hard to put the genie back in the bottle. Unfair? Possibly, but it would be foolish to ignore it. And yes, I'll know they will do the same to Obama before November rolls around, but the way he has already survived things that would have killed a lesser candidate's campaign shows that he has that all-important Teflon coating that Bill had but Hillary clearly lacks.

Because of her lying, cheating, gaming the system, usage of Republican Rovian smear tactics, sleeping with the enemy (Scaife, FOX News, etc.,) stabbing progressives in the back over issues like Iran, I've concluded she's completely unsuitable for positions of power. I want her driven out of the Beltway completely.

She cares only for herself. GET HER OUT!!!

I don't trust her. I think there is a part of her that wants the #1 position. She may not work as hard as someone else to get him elected because if he were to lose, she'd still have her chance in 2012.

why deal with it? Others could bring similar attributes without Clinton's baggage.

she hasn't been hit in this nomination season like she'll be hit by the Repubs because Obama played nice. I also don't trust her and think she and Bill will interfere with the business of the Presidency. I also think she is a miserable liar and should not be strung around Obama's neck like a lead anchor, sullying the candidacy of a good man with the downward gravity of disgusting say anything politics.

At this thread:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6086481&mesg_id=6086481

The president must be the one in control, with full authority to make the decisions (or at least maintain that illusion). The VP's job is to back the president 100%, no questions asked. And to stay in the background unless called upon to speak.

From Obama's standpoint, do you think Hillary fits that bill? Could she stay quiet? Could she play second fiddle to him being in the limelight? Could she bite her tongue when she disagreed with him? What role would Bill play in counseling her and Obama?

Hillary would want a dual presidency. It would be idiotic for Obama to walk into that trap.

Geesh.

Look the word up: Subordinate; Useful in an inferior capacity; Serving to promote some end.

Contrast that with Girl Friday, which is commonly meant to mean a female office assistant or a female servant.

It is a given that the VP (male or female) is subservient to the Pres in that it is the Pres who dictates policy and makes the decisions while the VP is required to back the Pres fully and without question. It is a subordinate role. Not that the VP has to be such in private. But in public, the VP is required to concur with the Pres and to further his wishes.

Do you disagree?

I often do the speadsheet ledger way of making tough decisions.

One column I list positives.
One column i list negatives.

The negative side of the ledger is a lot longer than the positive side.

Decision is made.

2. The perception of her as untrustworthy by a large majority of the public.

3. Aids the RW in their GOTV efforts.

4. Contradicts his message of wanting to leave the 'old politics of division' behind.

5. The possibility that her previous implications that he's less qualified than her Republican opponent, that his supporters are idiots, etc. will be used to dampen the energy among his supporters, and hinder the effort to gain new ones.

6. Last but FAR from least: DLC. Wellstone warned us about these types. Enough already.

7. What would happen if the Obama/Clinton ticket got elected in the fall. IMO, there would be so many Clintonian palace intrigues that nothing substantial would ever be accomplished.

Also, her experience under sniper fire notwithstanding, she does not have any real foreign policy experience which will be a major requirement for the eventual running mate.

New York has a Dem governor to appoint a Dem replacement, and I'd be amazed if New York didn't pick a Dem senator in the next election if Hillary took the VP spot.

There is a risk with some other VP candidates that the Dems could lose their seat in Congress or their governorship if that person became the VP.

n/t

:P

... the Iraq War, NAFTA, DOMA, etc. They are neo-cons, corporatists, conservatives, and liars.

would set up a seperate power structure in the East Wing and try to outmaneuver Obama.

I will fear for his life with her as VP.

She's a horrible choice purely on the merits, not even taking into account the contemptible manner in which she's conducted herself during this campaign, for which she absolutely should not be rewarded of all things.

1. A large part of Obama's strength is his ability to appeal to independents and crossover voters who are disaffected with the Republicans after the last 8 years of train wreck. Clinton DESTROYS this. Especially the crossover vote. There are only a tiny miniscule amount of Republicans who would even consider crossing over if it meant Clintons running around in the White House again. She is quite possibly the single most nationally polarizing figure in the ENTIRE democratic party. Her negatives consistently poll higher than anyone else in the race. And the scandals... and scandals... and scandals... which a Clinton on the ticket put into play for rehashing. You do not put someone with that characteristic on the "let's try to reach across the aisle" ticket. You just don't. It's purely stupid.

2. The voters she is supposed to bring in with her, Obama can bring in without her, so she doesn't bring anything that offsets the losses she causes in point 1. The loyal democratic voters who voted for her in the primary will mostly vote for Obama over McCain in the GE regardless of the VP pick. Those who won't?

----a: The people who voted based on race. Putting Clinton on the ticket will NOT change their minds and suddenly decide that they're voting for the black guy because the nice familiar white lady is his running mate. Not happening.
----b: Those who are so tied up in a Clinton win that they won't even consider anyone else as a running mate and will vote McCain or stay home out of pure spite. Yeah, putting her in the #2 slot will sway SOME of these voters. Others will scream about it being an insult that she's not #1. And their total numbers are more than offset by the voters Clinton drives away with her presence on the ticket.

3. Obama is the change and reform candidate. Clinton is an iconic old Washington politics politician. She undermines his core message.

4. Obama is about energizing the grassroots and bottom-up organization of a movement. Clinton is about top down party machinery management. Their styles of governance completely clash.

5. She has made too many attacks against him, directly delivered from her own lips. They're attack ads waiting to happen. "Obama's own running mate said two months ago that the only thing he had going for him was a speech he gave 6 years ago!!!"..... "Obama's own running mate said that McCain was far more qualified to be president than Obama!!!!" ... Yeah, we really want THAT constantly airing nationwide. It most likely will anyway, but at least it'll be "this person who Obama beat and sent home said this:..." which takes a lot of the punch out of it.

Must I continue?

Enough is enough. 28 years of BushClinton represent the worst decline in this country since Herbert Hoover, and the next depression is likely going to be far worse than the one that followed his term. Hell, it might be too late to stop it already. But 32 or 36 years of BushClinton certainly ain't going to make it better.

No more. Not President. Not Vice President. Not dog catcher.

that's why. The anointed one has been eclipsed. Fair and square.

A new day is dawning, that's why.

Democracy might be a possibility.

Screw her.

Plus Hillary has massive negatives.

and this is not a good thing.

Whatever her baggage, whatever damage she has done to her reputation within her OWN party, whatever attack points the GOP has or favors she has owed, the fact is she would be running as the VICE Pres.

How much political capital and cash are the Repubs willing to spend attacking the #2 person while Obama's charisma runs roughshod over McCain?

Plus she would kill in the VP debates, no question.

Add the frenzy of the two campaigns and I think you drive out tens of millions of voters that simply swamp a demoralized Repub base.

My REAL reservation is what happens AFTER the election. Clintons in the White House lurking around behind Obama without a doubt undermines his effectiveness in the office somewhat in my opinion. I don't think they forgive, forget and fall in line and become good soldiers in his Administration. Its not their MO.

At the end of the day, I'd probably would rather put a Clinton surrogate like Clark on the ticket and hope that is enough to appease at least some Hillaryites.

I don't oppose an Obama/Clinton ticket and would vote for it, but I think there are better choices than that.

"History has tried to teach us that we can't have good government under politicians. Now, to go and stick one at the very head of government couldn’t be wise." - Mark Twain

I have low expectations that Obama will really change much of anything, but my expectations of him are a helluva lot higher than either Hillary or McCain.

Terrible campiagn
High negatives
Untrustworthy
Race-baiting
Bill

Just off the top of my head.

Change ticket means seachange. :hi: