Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Florida Democrats worked with the GOP on the early primary back in March 2006

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 12:55 PM
Original message
Florida Democrats worked with the GOP on the early primary back in March 2006
and perhaps earlier. They were not victims. I have seen that claim several times a day here lately. They worked with Marco Rubio as early as March 2006.

Pretending otherwise is giving credence to lies and distortion.

From the St. Pete Times last October.

Florida faces a primary problem

Part of the article presents the Florida Democrats as victims, but I disagree on that. This part stands out to show the clear way it was planned for a long time.

Nobody realized it, but the storm began gathering in late March 2006. New Florida House Speaker Marco Rubio, a Miami Republican, visited Washington-based Florida reporters and touted a plan to boost Florida's influence in picking presidential nominees by moving the primary earlier than March.

"With all due respect to New Hampshire and Iowa, nowhere are you going to be on a national stage like Florida," Rubio said at the time. "You're going to get questions about Israel, Latin America, immigration. It's the old South, it's Latin, it's Midwestern, it's rural and urban."

Rubio already had Democrats on board.

"Florida Democrats are all for it," Mark Bubriski, spokesman for the Florida Democratic Party, said at the time.


Even the state party spokesman said they were on board early on.

Here are Dean's words in December 2006.

The penalties Florida faced for scheduling an early primary were by no means secret.

"If they move it into January, their delegates won't count in the Democratic convention, so I wouldn't advise that," Howard Dean had warned in the St. Petersburg Times in December 2006.


They knew there would be consequences well before the vote was taken.

Much of the article focuses on the fact that the Florida Democrats were vastly outnumbered in the legislature. Of course they were. The DNC knew that. They said the party had to "act in good faith." They did not need to overcome the vote, just vote no. They voted yes, instead and acted like victims.

The vote in the House was yes..115 to 1, and in the Senate I think almost all of the Democrats voted yes as well. The article quotes Steve Geller as having presented his amendment and having it fail. That would be this amendment featured in this "bramble bush" video

Here is the "good faith" clause in the DNC rules.

Florida's failure. They did not act "in good faith".

In the event a state shall become subject to subsections (1), (2) or (3) of section C. of this rule as a result of state law but the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee, after an investigation, including hearings if necessary, determines the state party and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith to achieve legislative changes to bring the state law into compliance with the pertinent provisions of these rules and determines that the state party and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith in attempting to prevent legislative changes which resulted in state law that fails to comply with the pertinent provisions of these rules, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee may determine that all or a portion of the state’s delegation shall not be reduced. The state party shall have the burden of proving by clear and convincing evidence that it and the other relevant Democratic party leaders and elected officials took all provable, positive steps and acted in good faith to achieve legislative changes...."


This state has been used as a ticket by one campaign to keep going on and on and on past the time when there is any hope.

Two facts should not be forgotten...that our Florida Democrats were "on board" with Jeb's house leader Marco Rubio as early as March 2006. That the Florida Democrats only had to vote NO instead of YES to be considered in "good faith."

This has been a disturbing time in my state. The feelings run high because those feelings are being used to manipulate.

Barack Obama today said Hillary was stirring things up here.

Sen. Barack Obama accused Sen. Hillary Clinton of stoking anger in Florida and Michigan over the Democratic Party's decision not to recognize the states' primary votes.

"They weren't stirring it up when they didn't need the delegates," he said. "Let's not sort of pretend that we don't know what's going on. This is, from their perspective, their last slender hope to make arguments about how they can win."
Obama speaks about Hillary and Florida


It is time more of our national leaders spoke up about how she is misleading when she speaks.

Florida could have shown "good faith" and spared us this.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. They shrugged off advice from Dean when he called.
Then pretended they had not heard from him. After Dean contacted Gelber, Gelber mocked Dean in the media here. He later apologized but the harm was done.

From the St. Pete Times article.

With Florida's Legislature in session and the Jan. 29 primary bill moving along, Dean, the DNC chairman, phoned state House Minority Leader Dan Gelber of Miami Beach and urged him to try pushing Florida's primary to Feb. 5, to avoid the penalties.

Gelber called state Rep. David Rivera, a top Republican pushing the early primary. It had to be January, Rivera said. Otherwise, Florida would be lost in the scrum of states voting Feb. 5.

Gelber agreed. And why urge Democrats to oppose a popular idea when they had no chance of stopping it anyway?

State Democratic chairwoman Karen Thurman sent lawmakers a couple of letters opposing the January primary, but she said Dean never seemed to understand how little Democrats could do in Republican-controlled Tallahassee.

"I had one or two conversations with him, but it was always around the idea of, 'Change this, do something about this,'" she recounted.


See, they all went along. All they had to do was vote no and show opposition.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. I've been told that they would have voted no if it were a simple date change...
(at least the local delegation from most of Tampa Bay) but the Sarasota / Pinellas / Hillsborough voting machine issue was HOT and they knew that an attempt to change to a later date had already been defeated.

The final bill had paper ballots, tax and insurance changes, local school tax referendums, etc. all part of the proposed law that included the primary. With Christine Jennings in court over the undervotes and similar stuff, they voted for the negotiated overall bill.

Besides an inevitable loss anyway, a filibuster or some other stoppage would have required the Governor to call a special session if they went into June or something that simply wasn't going to happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bill Clinton used Florida again today. It is her ticket to ....wherever.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/05/bill-clinton-ha.html

"Speaking to a crowd of about 200 in Fort Thompson, S.D., Clinton seemed slightly subdued during his 30-minute speech, which largely focused on the issues important to the Native American community. As he wrapped up his remarks, a woman in the audience asked him a question about voting for Hillary Clinton.

"If you vote for her and she does well in Montana and she does well in Puerto Rico, when this is over she will be ahead in the popular vote," Clinton said. "And they're trying to get her to cry uncle before the Democratic Party has to decide what to do in Florida and Michigan because they are claiming that it only takes 2029 votes on the first ballot to win, and it takes a lot more than that if you put Florida and Michigan back in. Well, they will have to unless we want to lose the election. I mean, look, so there is that that is going on."

This is so sad.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. kicking it back from the dead..
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks....I was hoping.
:hi:

It is important to understand that Florida Dem leaders were not victims...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. I know this won't happen
However I wish the rules committee as part of the seating the delegation strips all Super Delegates from both states of their super delegate status.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. Arrogance Cost Florida the Chance To Influence Election
This is one of the few columns written that criticize the Florida Democrats. The media here and the Florida bloggers have stood with the state Democrats through all this mess...fearing they would lose access, I guess.

Arrogance Cost Florida Chance To Influence Election

I recently heard a respected Democrat, a state senator, tell an audience that if Florida delegates are not seated, he was not sure he would support the Democratic nominee.This argument has a superficial attraction even when made by the very people who got us in this mess, that is, the leadership of the Florida party including its elected officials.

..."•In August 2006, the DNC adopted rules relating to the schedule much along the lines proposed by the commission. No one from Florida spoke against the proposal nor gave any other indication of dissent though representatives from New Hampshire voiced their opposition. These rules spelled out the sanctions for states that did not adhere to the rules. (The rules did allow the state to avoid sanctions if it could demonstrate that the state party and elected officials in good faith took all steps to bring the state into compliance.)

•Even before the Republican-led Legislature voted to change the date of the Florida primary, the DNC, anticipating that the earlier date would be adopted, offered a way out of the dilemma. There was discussion about a vote-by-mail process and a party-run caucus system. The DNC even offered to pay the entire cost of the caucus system, an offer without precedent. The Florida party pushed ahead.

• In March and April 2007, in the face of warnings from the DNC, the Florida Legislature voted overwhelmingly to move the primary date to Jan. 29, and the Democrats supported this legislation.


Still two lawsuits pending, and I fear one will just keep on refiling. They have said they will keep on with the lawsuit no matter how the DNC rules committee rules.

We now find ourselves in a very odd situation. The party leadership and many of the elected Democrats took the risk of violating party rules, many promoting the change. They ignored the notice from the DNC and the substantial legal precedent that gives the party control over its own rules and supports its authority to set the terms of its delegate selection. Surely the party leaders and lawyers know of the legal rule that respects party autonomy and avoids the chaos that would exist if the primary and caucus dates were simply left to every state, a system that the U.S. Supreme Court has said would produce "an obviously intolerable result."


If only they had left the original date intact...what an influence we would have had.

The Florida Democratic Party leadership has gotten us into this mess, and some are even threatening to enlist the courts in some kind of epic battle, knowing full well that the courts offer no basis for the relief they are seeking. Moreover, their announced motivation - to increase Florida's influence - would have been achieved if they had left the issue alone or if they had accepted the DNC offer to fund caucuses. Indeed, if Florida had a primary or caucus some time now, in early March, we might actually have had a real impact on this election.

Wouldn't that have been fun?


This has been the ticket Hillary needed to just keep on and on and on and on.






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
21. I was hoping for a revote, caucus, or some similar thing...but it didn't happen.
This primary was going to the end no matter what any single state did...at this point we can simply hope that the courts don't get involved.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #21
39. The course shouldn't even take the case...big waste of taxpayer money......n/t
Edited on Mon May-26-08 10:25 AM by Tippy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. A comment on part of your post...
The law that is discussed is one of several possible reasons to overturn the Florida primary. Besides "discrimination" and "state rights" and other things, a court might hold the two items below are in conflict, and demand relief. I'm not a lawyer, but I've seen local yaps discussing this on the Sunday morning shows. Interesting discussion though.

-----------------------From the FL Democratic Party---------------
"In response to the Party’s efforts, Senate Democratic Leaders Geller and Wilson and House Democratic Leaders Gelber and Cusack introduced amendments to CS/HB 537 to hold the Presidential Preference Primary on the first Tuesday in February, instead of January 29th. These were both defeated by the overwhelming Republican majority in each house."

---------------------From your post---------------
"Still two lawsuits pending, and I fear one will just keep on refiling. They have said they will keep on with the lawsuit no matter how the DNC rules committee rules.

We now find ourselves in a very odd situation. The party leadership and many of the elected Democrats took the risk of violating party rules, many promoting the change. They ignored the notice from the DNC and the substantial legal precedent that gives the party control over its own rules and supports its authority to set the terms of its delegate selection. Surely the party leaders and lawyers know of the legal rule that respects party autonomy and avoids the chaos that would exist if the primary and caucus dates were simply left to every state, a system that the U.S. Supreme Court has said would produce "an obviously intolerable result."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #22
37. There is Supreme Court precedent from 1981.
http://pushingrope.blogspot.com/2007/09/dnc-can-refuse-to-allow-florida-to-have.html

"The 1981 Supreme Court decision for the case Democratic Party of U.S. v. Wisconsin, 450 U.S. 107 clearly states that the Democratic National Committee can make and enforce the rules on the delegate process.

"The State has a substantial interest in the manner in which its elections are conducted, and the National Party has a substantial interest in the manner in which the delegates to its National Convention are selected. But these interests are not incompatible, and to the limited extent they clash in this case, both interests can be preserved. The National Party rules do not forbid Wisconsin to conduct an open primary. But if Wisconsin does open its primary, it cannot require that Wisconsin delegates to the National Party Convention vote there in accordance with the primary results, if to do so would violate Party rules. Since the Wisconsin Supreme Court has declared that the National Party cannot disqualify delegates who are bound to vote in accordance with the results of the Wisconsin open primary, its judgment is reversed.

It is so ordered."


And Judge Hinkle told Bill Nelson in Nelson v Dean to sue the state, not the DNC.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1813

Hinkle said the Democratic National Committee has a right to set its schedule for primaries. The national party penalized Florida because it broke party rules by jumping the state's primary date ahead to Jan. 29.

To rule otherwise would be a free-for-all with all 50 states, Hinkle said. He gave the plaintiffs the choice to re-file under the voting rights act against the state of Florida if they choose."


In normal times I would trust our judicial system, but these are not normal times in judicial land.

Anything could happen.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. I suspect that Nelson was advised it was futile to sue a Jeb appointed court...
and then appeal to a Bush appointed Supreme Court. You are right about the precedent, and I suspect that an individual lawsuit, if successful, will use this. (It's also possible that as a delaying tactic, if Nelson had sued Florida the GOP judge would have said that you should have sued the DNC.)

It would be best to stay out of court regardless of which candidate is winning, but time is running out.

Maybe they'll make a deal or something. Thanks for keeping us informed. You find lots of good stuff to think about that I don't see locally.


:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
36. Guess we know for sure now where the Clinton supporters on DU are
getting their talking or screaming points...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IllinoisBirdWatcher Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
38. No FL elected official at any level should be a superdelegate
Whatever the penalty ends up being for ignoring, giggling, and flaunting the rules, it must include a penalty of NO SUPERDELEGATES. They caused this mess, and they should stay home and watch it on TV.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smiley_glad_hands Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
Good work as usual. Keep it coming.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks for your detailed reports on this mess.
I've been following this with great interest, feeling that something was crooked when they blatantly broke the rules. It would be so nice to have an election w/o all this drama and underhandedness.

Republicans want a Republican Pres.,neocons couldn't care less, as long as they continue the coverups and hand out the pardons. Alot of people don't get that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skyounkin Donating Member (722 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
9. I'm tired of you Hillary
Just go away- and take Bill with you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. Perhaps they are lying, but here's the Florida Democratic Party comment...
Edited on Mon May-26-08 02:52 AM by Sancho
http://www.makeitcountflorida.com/page/content/makeitcount-faqs

This was from 2007 before this mess. I didn't paste it all...

"Who sets the date for Florida’s Primary?
The state-run Presidential Preference Primary date is set by the Florida Legislature. In the 2007 legislative session, the Republican Speaker of the House made it a priority to move up the Primary to January, in violation of both Democratic and Republican National Committee Rules. The Legislature passed the bill, which also included the new requirement that all Florida elections have a paper trail starting in 2008. Governor Charlie Crist signed the bill into law in May.

Why didn’t the Florida Democratic Party follow the Rules?
Florida’s Primary date, as determined by state law, violates one part of the Rules because it comes before February 5, 2008. The DNC only allows Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina to go before February 5, but Florida law set ours for January 29. The DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) is the only body that can grant final approval of the Delegate Selection Plan, but the Credentials Committee of the Democratic National Convention, which will be formed next year, decides who actually attends the Convention.

The DNC says that Florida could have applied to hold an early primary when it was developing the calendar, but didn’t. Why not?
In Florida, the Legislature is controlled by Republicans. Democrats must prioritize what they work on to achieve the best they can for Floridians. An early primary was never a priority for Democrats, who remain far more concerned with issues such as insurance reform, increased healthcare for children, and improving our schools.

The Rules say you had to try to stop the primary move, but Democrats voted for the law. What gives?
Initially, before a specific date had been decided upon by the Republicans, some Democrats did actively support the idea of moving earlier in the calendar year. That changed when Speaker Rubio announced he wanted to break the Rules of the Democratic and Republican National Committees. Following this announcement, DNC and Florida Democratic Party staff talked about the possibility that our primary date would move up in violation of Rule 11.A.

Party leaders, Chairwoman Thurman and members of Congress then lobbied Democratic members of the Legislature through a variety of means to prevent the primary from moving earlier than February 5th. Party leadership and staff spent countless hours discussing our opposition to and the ramifications of a pre-February 5th primary with legislators, former and current Congressional members, DNC members, DNC staff, donors, activists, county leaders, media, legislative staff, Congressional staff, municipal elected officials, constituency leaders, labor leaders and counterparts in other state parties. In response to the Party’s efforts, Senate Democratic Leaders Geller and Wilson and House Democratic Leaders Gelber and Cusack introduced amendments to CS/HB 537 to hold the Presidential Preference Primary on the first Tuesday in February, instead of January 29th. These were both defeated by the overwhelming Republican majority in each house.

The primary bill, which at this point had been rolled into a larger legislation train, went to a vote in both houses. It passed almost unanimously. The final bill contained a whole host of elections legislation, much of which Democrats did not support. However, in legislative bodies, the majority party can shove bad omnibus legislation down the minority’s throats by attaching a couple of things that made the whole bill very difficult, if not impossible, to vote against. This is what the Republicans did in Florida, including a vital provision to require a paper trail for Florida elections. There was no way that any Florida Democratic Party official or Democratic legislative leader could ask our Democratic members, especially those in the Florida Legislative Black Caucus, to vote against a paper trail for our elections. It would have been embarrassing, futile, and, moreover, against Democratic principles.

Who cares about the paper trail?
Floridians do. Our state has had far too many election controversies. A verifiable paper trail for elections is something Democrats have fought for since the election debacle of 2000. It is a groundbreaking change in a state that has no standardized voting and a long record of disastrous elections. In fact, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) continues to investigate Florida’s District 13 Congressional election in which touch-screen voting machines lost 18,000 ballots in the most Democratic part of the district - putting a Republican in Congress by less than 400 votes, instead of an accomplished Democratic woman who worked her way from bank teller to bank president before running for Congress.

Why can’t you just change the primary date?
Unfortunately, Florida Democrats are outnumbered almost 2 to 1 in the Legislature. They are an extremely hard-working and committed group, but to change a law that the Speaker of the House has made a priority is nearly impossible.

Some Florida Democrats are using the word ‘disenfranchisement.’ What do they mean by that? How exactly would a caucus disenfranchise voters? Isn’t that too strong a word?
Florida Democrats are extremely concerned about the potential for disenfranchisement, which is the term used to refer to the act of inhibiting the right to vote. For minorities and women in particular, it has historical significance because those groups were often told they could not vote, either directly or by tying certain criteria to the right to vote, such as a poll tax or a literacy test. Modern-day disenfranchisement includes action such as a tactic called “caging,” which is the illegal use of mailing lists to cut voters from the rolls so when they show up on Election Day, they cannot vote. The Republican Party of Florida and the 2004 Bush-Cheney Campaign are currently being investigated based on evidence that emerged recently showing that they conducted caging in Duval County in 2004 to block Democrats from voting.

Not all caucuses disenfranchise voters. There are ways to hold an inclusive, open caucus. However, this costs money – a LOT of money. We estimated it would cost $7-8 million to hold an inclusive process here (the Primary costs the state $18 million). One suggested caucus would have allowed only 120,000 people to vote at 150 sites, even though a normal Florida primary has upwards of a million Democrats and 6,700 polling sites. Because of the size of this state, there is no way to equitably distribute 150 sites. Many Democratic voters live in urban areas and do not have personal transportation. Or some live in rural counties and would have to drive for hours to get to a site. Those are just some of the problems that would effectively disenfranchise voters.

What about the property tax reform constitutional amendment the Republicans are pushing?
In addition to the presidential primary vote, the Republican-controlled Legislature scheduled a ballot question on a constitutional amendment that will force drastic cuts in 2008-09 to local budgets that are already being cut in the upcoming budget. The amendment stands to slash local services like libraries and community centers and cut literally thousands of jobs at the municipal level – including firefighters, police, teachers, and others. While the Party does not generally take official positions on ballot initiatives, it encourages all voters to take a careful and serious look at the impact the cuts will have on their localities before they vote on this initiative.

And the municipal elections?
On January 29, the ballot will also include numerous municipal elections. While Florida Democrats did better in 2006, picking up two Congressional seats – would have been a third were it not for 18,000 missing votes in District 13 – electing the first Democratic Cabinet member since 1998, taking back eight Republican-held House seats, and winning the Hispanic vote for the first time since 1976, we still have a long way to go to take back the majority here. We have worked hard to build our bench, but Republicans will turnout in big numbers on January 29th, even though they have a weak slate of Presidential candidates. Florida Democrats must turn out in full force to vote on January 29th so we can continue to elect strong and responsible elected officials at the municipal level.

What about the Four-State Pledge? Does this mean the presidential candidates are not coming to the state convention?
Many people are asking about the so-called “Four State Pledge” – the effort by the early states of Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina to maintain their privileged positions of influence in the nominating process. Also, the four early states informed the Florida Democratic Party that they would not allow the Presidential candidates to campaign in Florida even if we held an alternative process. We obviously don’t support this, but it is the hand we have been dealt. (Read three different versions of the infamous “Four State Pledge”) In reality, because of the hyper-importance of Iowa and New Hampshire in the 2008 Democratic race, our candidates likely would not have been able to spend much time anywhere else other than for fundraising. Rest assured, we’ll see the Democratic nominee – the next President of the United States of America – early and often during the general election.

What about the delegate selection process? Why still go through with the process if the DNC isn’t giving Florida any delegates?
Although the DNC has said it will not recognize delegates from Florida, the Party plans to appeal to the eventual Democratic nominee for President to be seated at the Convention. Speaker Nancy Pelosi, the Chair of the 2008 National Convention, and DNC Chairman Howard Dean both confirmed that this does not minimize the importance and impact of the vote on January 29th. With this in mind, the Party will continue the delegate selection process to elect the actual delegates to the Democratic National Convention and will use the results of the January 29th Presidential Preference Primary to determine the apportionment of those delegates.

Why didn’t the DNC assign hotel rooms to Florida?
We technically have no delegates at this time. However, when the nominee overrules the DNC and restores our delegation, we will have some of the 17,000 hotel rooms assigned to us.

Can a presidential candidate remove their name from the ballot in Florida?
Florida Democratic Party Chairwoman Thurman, Senator Geller and Representative Gelber submitted to Florida’s Secretary of State the names of our Party’s presidential candidates for placement on the January 29, 2008 Democratic Presidential Preference Primary ballot. State law allows candidates who wish to withdraw from the Florida primary to do so by filing an affidavit stating that he or she is not a candidate for President of the United States of America. In other words: to get off the ballot in Florida, a candidate has to swear that he or she isn’t running for President.

What is going on with the lawsuits?
The one lawsuit filed against the Florida Democratic Party has been thrown out. The Party is not involved in any other lawsuit.

Paid for by the Florida Democratic Party (214 South Bronough Street, Tallahassee, FL 32301, 850-222-3411) and not authorized by any federal candidate or candidate's committee."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Florida Democratic Party being less than truthful?
Edited on Mon May-26-08 03:04 AM by grantcart
I think Madfloridian just had a stroke.

This is an obvious lie and there is video showing it.
In Florida, the Legislature is controlled by Republicans. Democrats must prioritize what they work on to achieve the best they can for Floridians. An early primary was never a priority for Democrats, who remain far more concerned with issues such as insurance reform, increased healthcare for children, and improving our schools

BTW while it is true that the state legislature sets the primary date (and in this case the republicans and democrats both agreed knowing that there would be sanctions on both) there is nothing that compels the state party to follow the state legislature. In several states local parties choose to have their official delegate selection on dates different than those chosen by the state. Washington State for example has a primary fixed by law but both the Republicans and Democrats agree to hold caucuses on a much earlier date.

It is an interesting fact that in states across the union there is very little partisan disagreement in the various state legislatures about how or when to hold their delegate selection process.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I think what Madfloridian is saying is, it WAS the DEMOCRATS. And, they had OPTIONS!
Edited on Mon May-26-08 03:52 AM by votesomemore
Article dated May 20, 2007
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-florida20may20,0,5268295.story?coll=la-home-center
DEMOCRATS:

GOP officials in the state say they had no idea until late in this spring's legislative session that the change would create so much turmoil on the Democratic side.

"I don't think anybody made us aware of that until the very end of the process," said Marco Rubio, the Republican state House speaker.

And Jeremy Ring, a Democratic state senator from Broward County and co-sponsor of the legislation, defended it.

"If the choice is Florida is relevant and has no delegates versus being irrelevant and having delegates, I'd choose being relevant with no delegates," Ring said. "We did this so 18 million Floridians could take part in the presidential primaries, not so a few hundred people can go to a party in Denver."

OPTIONS:
One possible solution gaining steam is to forget the primary and schedule statewide Iowa-style caucuses for February 2008.

But whereas Florida taxpayers would underwrite the primary, the Democratic Party would have to pay for the caucuses — estimated to cost as much as $10 million. And, though Iowa has a tradition of caucuses set in living rooms and firehouses, they might not work so well in the diverse, bare-knuckles political environs of Florida. A typical condo complex in Broward County has more residents than many Iowa towns.

A state nominating convention is another possibility. It would be less expensive, but some strategists worry that it could create the perception that party bosses were picking the nominee.

Perhaps the biggest obstacle to a quick resolution is the fear that if the DNC makes concessions to Florida, it could face new demands from other states. Even worse, some fear a legal battle could result if one candidate wins the statewide vote and another wins the caucuses — especially if the Florida delegates are needed to determine the nominee.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I suspect that it was a convoluted decision, but did you know this?
"In response to the Party’s efforts, Senate Democratic Leaders Geller and Wilson and House Democratic Leaders Gelber and Cusack introduced amendments to CS/HB 537 to hold the Presidential Preference Primary on the first Tuesday in February, instead of January 29th. These were both defeated by the overwhelming Republican majority in each house."


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #17
40. It wasn't a convoluted decision - it was a staged farce.
Have you been reading anything Madfloridian has been publishing these last three months?

My suggestion is that you take a few hours and go back and read everything Madfloridian has written.


Geller staged a 'show' vote so that they could pretend that they "really really really really wanted to change the date back"


Unfortunately the fucking idiot forgot that it was being taped and the whole story was captured on video tape

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r25wUeMAwdE

So how does it feel to be taken in by a two bit con man.

This man is an embarassement to the Democratic Party and the Florida State Party isn't going to have one ounce of respect in this country until it cleans house and gets rid of these charlatans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #40
46. Thank you, grantcart.... it is big joke. But that joke is ripping our party apart.
Thanks for the kind words. Nothing really sinks in to Floridians, though. You have to be here and see and hear the propaganda to understand.

When people you know and respected tell you things, you tend to believe them.

FL leaders and Hillary are telling Floridians lies, and they are believing them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #46
53. But you have to relax.
The leaders of the party are simply giving the Clintons their last moments in the sun so that they cannot say that they were 'forced out'. After this weekend they are going to have a compromise and she will not be able to raise it again. They are going to let the last 3 primaries vote and then her talking point about letting everyone vote will be gone.

Then there will be a huge rush of super delegates including many of Clinton's switching sides. My prediction is that the first two weeks of June will show a very firm shutting of the door on the Clinton campaign.

The Obama folks are a lot more patient than we are and their patience has been right.

Did we really think that taking power, even in the party, was going to be easy?

The Clinton's have been massively humiliated by a relative neophyte and they are going to thrash out and embarass themselves they cannot help it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #17
42. Are you quoting directly from the FDP? They made a joke of their amendments.
I would give you some links but I am just too damn disgusted. You are spreading FL propaganda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. That was directly from the FDP website...and paid for by the FDP
I'm sure that it is "spin", but some of the technical stuff appears correct. There was an amendment filed to set a later date that was defeated by both the House and Senate. I'm not sure how to get the records.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. I GAVE you one record on video....link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r25wUeMAwdE

It has played here at DU over and over, at Daily Kos. everywhere.

It was a big joke to them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. That was Geller, and he should be punished every way possible.
If I have the dates right, a week or so later after that recording (I suppose after Dean called Thurman or whatever happened behind the doors when sanctions were threatened), several others tried to amend the bill to put the date back on super Tuesday in both houses and it was defeated. I think that Geller is a problem, but I don't think that all the FL Democratic representatives were on the same page with Geller.

I have no idea what some of those people discussed when out of sight, but I know that the Tampa Bay folks were clear that they could do nothing about the GOP election plans no matter what they did. One told me that he couldn't even get an amendment to the table past the committee and it was not going to happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
41. That is why the rules were set......
Edited on Mon May-26-08 10:42 AM by Tippy
You are correct....WE will have 49 other States wanting things to be done their way...DNC is correct as I have said over and over...Early on I also said .."seat them" but no votes....Hillary is using FL ...to get her way...Obama followed rules but she and the voters want him out no matter what...PEOPLE WAKE UP IF SHE WILL DO THIS GOD KNOWS WHAT SHE WILL DO WHEN THAT CALL CON|MES AT 3 AM......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. saying that the FDP only supported the move because of the paper trail? Yeah, that's a lie.
As a recently transplanted Floridian, I sympathize with voters that weren't involved with the party and didn't really understand what was happening. But the Florida Democratic Party was absolutely on board with the move.

Keeping in mind that the Florida primary hadn't made a difference in decades (certainly not in my voting lifetime) and that the primary was widely expected to be over by February 5, the party took the chance that the publicity of a beauty contest would be more valuable than having an official say and that the DNC would blink and seat the delegates anyway because it wouldn't make a difference.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Possibly, but I talked to two local state representatives who confirmed...
I don't know what happened behind the closed doors, but the local representatives here have always said that they wanted to have a DNC legal date, but it was stopped early in the process by the GOP. They also have always stated that it was the better of the options to go for the paper trail and get voters out for the constitutional amendments since they couldn't change the dates anyway. They went along with the FDP at the end of the day as part of the larger picture. Given what happened in Sarasota and Pinellas with the voting machines, I would also agree with the paper trail.

Even though all the representatives may not agree, I haven't heard a different story personally than the one described. I have no sympathy for the leadership in Florida who really wanted to change the date just to get attention, but I seriously think that the GOP in Florida manipulated this one.

I think that the "four state agreement" and disenfranchisement opened the door for lawsuits. If you watched "Recount" on HBO, you know that courts can do some pretty weird things.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #16
43. You believe the state's "party leaders." I won't. Your choice.
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. I don't believe some of the leaders...
I do believe a few in our local delegation who said that they were trapped by the "paper trail" and "constitutional amendment on taxes" into accepting the early date after the amendment to change the date failed in both chambers.

They knew late in the session that it was a violation of DNC rules and they got several letters or notices from the FDP (as I heard it).

Do you know how to check the details of this statement from the FDP? If I figure it out, I'll post it.

"Democratic Leaders Gelber and Cusack introduced amendments to CS/HB 537 to hold the Presidential Preference Primary on the first Tuesday in February, instead of January 29th. These were both defeated by the overwhelming Republican majority in each house."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #43
49. I found links to the pdf cover page, but some is deleted as failed...
http://www.myfloridahouse.com/Sections/Documents/loaddoc.aspx?FileName=009193.doc&DocumentType=Amendments&BillNumber=0537&Session=2007

It appears that on May 3, 2007 Gelbert tried to amend the date from Jan. 29 to the super Tuesday and it was defeated.

I can't find the exact deleted wording or vote counts or whatever. I'm sure there is a way to do it.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Here are Geller's words on video. I will find Gelber's amendment, just a moment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #50
52.  I have no sympathy for Geller. He helped create the problem.
I would love to see new leadership in the FDP.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. Is there somewhere we can buy study guides before the test?
I am afraid that I have absorbed only about 15% of all of the well document details you have brought out in your outstanding posts.


You should have 5 threads a day. I would be happy to give you 2 of mine and then everyone will think so much more highly of my

threads - although they will wonder why I throw in one clanker a day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 03:33 AM
Response to Original message
14. Dean worked extremely hard to try to prevent this.
Edited on Mon May-26-08 03:35 AM by votesomemore
Democrats scramble to prevent Florida primary election fiasco

An early contest could shift delegates to less-popular presidential candidates -- or discount their votes for the party's 2008 nominee altogether.
By Peter Wallsten, Times Staff Writer
May 20, 2007

WASHINGTON — /snipped/
It sounds like just another wacky political dust-up from the land of hanging chads and butterfly ballots. But the problem is considered so serious that Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean and state party officials are embroiled in frantic behind-the-scenes negotiations to stave off a potential disaster that could quickly spread across the nation.

The trouble sprang from a decision by Florida lawmakers to jump to an earlier spot on the primary election calendar, following the lead of other big states tired of voting too late to have a meaningful say in choosing each party's nominee.

But whereas California, Illinois and many other states are moving to set their primaries for Feb. 5, Florida opted to leap ahead to Jan. 29 — a week earlier than allowed under Democratic Party rules. And that has triggered mayhem.

National Democratic officials have vowed to enforce party rules that strip delegates from any state that moves too early in the calendar, and also from candidates who campaign in those states. The penalties were meant to stop states from continually leapfrogging each other in a race to be among the first to vote.

As things stand now, Clinton, Obama and other prominent contenders may not be eligible to win any Florida delegates, though the state offers a compartively large share of the total needed to win the Democratic nomination. Under one scenario, it could turn out that no Democratic candidate gets any Florida delegates.

Democratic officials are alarmed by these possibilities, though they are reluctant to talk about the problem for fear of jeopardizing the negotiations.

/snipped/

"The alternative is chaos," said Mitchell Berger, a Fort Lauderdale lawyer and fundraiser for former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, a top-tier Democratic candidate. "I'm encouraging everybody to calm down, take a deep breath and figure this out," said Berger, who is privy to the negotiations

It was not supposed to be this way. To prevent this very problem — and to protect the practice of retail politicking in the traditional early-voting states — Dean and other party leaders established a nationwide schedule for primaries and caucuses, starting in January 2008. They designated Iowa as the first caucus state, along with newcomer Nevada. New Hampshire and South Carolina were approved for primaries soon afterward.

The DNC, trying to keep the selection process from being too front-loaded and thus stacked against candidates with smaller war chests, also adopted a rule saying no other state could hold a primary before Feb. 5.

But Republicans in the Florida Legislature — supported by many Democrats — pushed through a measure setting Jan. 29 as the date for their state's presidential primary. Gov. Charlie Crist, a Republican, is expected to sign the bill.

If that date holds for picking Florida's Democratic delegates, penalties for violating the party's rules would cut Florida's delegation by more than half, to 92 votes. But most important, the rules would also take away any delegates won by candidates who campaigned or raised funds in the state.

Tension over the 2008 calendar is especially high because, for the first time in half a century, there are competitive primaries in both parties. The GOP, which also has rules designed to keep order in the nominating process, plans to strip Florida of about half its delegates to the national convention if the early primary is held. But the DNC rules go much further.

Strategists for Clinton vow that the senator from New York will campaign in Florida no matter what, underscoring her intent to build a campaign for the general election. Other well-known contenders such as Sen. Obama of Illinois, Edwards, Sens. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.) and Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.), and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson are not likely to forgo the fundraising riches of Florida, one of the country's biggest sources of campaign cash.

That means that Florida's delegates could fall to the also-rans who appear on the state ballot but face no pressure to campaign there.

Or, it could mean no candidate gets any Florida delegates. The Democratic rules also contain a provision that no candidate who receives less than 15% of the total primary vote may be awarded delegates, though party officials admit the rule is vague and it's not clear what would happen if the top vote-getters were disqualified.

/snipped/

GOP officials in the state say they had no idea until late in this spring's legislative session that the change would create so much turmoil on the Democratic side.

"I don't think anybody made us aware of that until the very end of the process," said Marco Rubio, the Republican state House speaker.

And Jeremy Ring, a Democratic state senator from Broward County and co-sponsor of the legislation, defended it.

"If the choice is Florida is relevant and has no delegates versus being irrelevant and having delegates, I'd choose being relevant with no delegates," Ring said.
"We did this so 18 million Floridians could take part in the presidential primaries, not so a few hundred people can go to a party in Denver."

peter.wallsten@latimes.com
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-florida20may20,0,5268295.story?coll=la-home-center
much more
emphasis added
spelling in the article
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. I agree that Dean has tried to repair this situation...
and I don't blame Dean even though he'll probably take the heat if there is a court decision to change the primary or delegation or something. That's just the way it is if you're in charge.

Some Fl legislators are problems, and Jeremy Ring may be one of them with these comments.

I would have no problem with some kind of sanction of the Fl leaders who prolonged this mess. I'm sure that all the state legislators are not that bad because I see enough of them. My state reps are convinced that the FL GOP manipulated the date when they got the chance to cause as much confusion with the Democratic primary as possible and they have been saying so for a year.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. How can that theory hold water when
Edited on Mon May-26-08 05:55 AM by votesomemore
the state GOP is also being penalized for their primary date? There is no partisan bias evident.

The GOP, which also has rules designed to keep order in the nominating process, plans to strip Florida of about half its delegates to the national convention if the early primary is held.

The people taking this to court are risking that the "contract" within the Party is binding, and Florida will suffer the full consequences rather than take a reasonable, more favorable compromise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #23
25.  Sorry, duplicated post...
Edited on Mon May-26-08 06:02 AM by Sancho
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. The GOP still seats half their delegates...
The GOP raised money in Florida and their candidates had debates here including one in St. Petersburg. Charlie Crist is on McCain's short list for VP.

That is a reasonable compromise. Allow campaigning and seating half the delegates. The GOP was allowed to register new voters for their campaigns in Florida. The DNC didn't allow campaigning and lost thousands of registration opportunities.

If what happened with the GOP was the case with the DNC, most of Florida would be happy. None of those things happened with the DNC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. And we don't have a time machine.
Edited on Mon May-26-08 06:30 AM by votesomemore
From what I've read, Hillary is rejecting the half seating compromise. Do you have information that states otherwise?

ps. It's hard to believe I'm having an actual, rational conversation with a Hillary supporter.
Nice!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Opps... I'll vote for the Democratic candidate and my favorite is out already.
Any candidate at this point is going to do what they think benefits their campaign. I would prefer that there was a revote or compromise of any kind that would keep this out of the crazy courts.

Last summer (2007), I stated asking my local delegation what was happening about this primary date. Kathy Castor is an Obama supporter and she is very aware that her mother (Betty Castor) and Christine Jennings lost elections to hacked machine counts. At the federal level, she supports voting reform. At the local level, our representatives were forced to vote for a paper trail on the same bill as the primary date.

That's just part of the big issue, but as it stands I'd hate to have another set of court cases over FL voters doing the best they could under the circumstances. Any FL party leadership who are out of line deserve whatever they get! Personally, I've been working for some new Florida candidates. I like Christine Jennings, Bill Heller, and Kathy Castor. I think some new state and national people would be great.

I'd be glad to vote for Obama, Hillary, Edwards, Richardson, or Kucinich. Anyone but McCain!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Did the paper trail measure pass?
I just know we could use more balanced views such as your's around here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Yes, Hillsborough (Tampa) and Sarasota were forced to sell the new voting machines!
Edited on Mon May-26-08 07:19 AM by Sancho
One of the best days I've ever seen!

Also, we elected two new local Democratic representatives in the last round (Bill Heller and Charlie Justice), passed a tax referendum to pay for schools, and for the first time in decades have more Democratic registrations than GOP in Pinellas (Clearwater/St. Pete).

In that way, the Jan. 29th day was a victory for most, but not all of the progressive agenda. We lost a property tax amendment and voted a few days too early for the DNC.

After a few years in Florida, you have to develop a pretty thick skin to survive, but thanks.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:19 AM
Response to Original message
19. MF on a related note
what is your take on the meeting this Saturday? Will it be a three-ring circus? What will be the outcome of the meeting?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. The outcome: Hillary won't be satisfied.
(sorry for butting in with my own vp)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sancho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. I don't have any doubt that either Hillary or Obama won't be happy with a deal.
You can't split the baby. On the other hand, putting a stop to the lawsuits is in the best interest of winning the election. I'd love to see Hillary give up even if it means offering her something in return as a compromise. It doesn't have to be VP. Just think of the 5 top in this last primary as VP, Attorney General, Secretary of State, Secretary of health, education, welfare, etc...

If all 5 of our folks replaced Bush, Rice, Cheney, etc. WOW, what an administration that could be! That is something of a compromise that could throw all the candidates into a winning election. I just hope they can figure it out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
31. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tommy_Carcetti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
33. Eat us! Hey, it's Thanksgiving Day! Eat us, we make a nice buffet!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIufyg09WnQ

Eat us, we make a nice buffet!
We lost the race with Farmer Ed,
eat us 'cause we're good and dead.
White man or red man from east, north or south,
chop off our legs, and put 'em in your mouth!

Eat me!
Sautéed or barbecued!
Eat me!
We once were pets but now we're food!
We won't stay fresh for very long!
So eat us before we finish this song!
Eat us before we finish this song!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ferd Berfle Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
34. Face it - Florida Dem Party Leaders are the Silent Partners of the Cons.
Florida Dems have no one to blame but themselves....and the LOCAL party 'leadership'
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
35. Thank you madfloridian K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
55. Well,
I have to do something to keep my sanity...because all I hear is spin around here and no one telling what really happened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
54. Here is more about Dan Gelber, who was the FL House minority leader
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 13th 2024, 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC