Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Robert Parry: End of the Bush-Clinton Era?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:01 PM
Original message
Robert Parry: End of the Bush-Clinton Era?
(Robert Parry allows unlimited use of his work at Consortiumnews.)



End of the Bush-Clinton Era?

By Robert Parry
May 25, 2008


Hillary Clinton’s comment, referencing Robert Kennedy’s 1968 assassination to explain why she’s continuing her campaign, may serve as a crass punctuation point for the end of a grim period in American history, the Bush-Clinton era.

This period – roughly marked by George H.W. Bush’s rise as Vice President and then President from 1981 to 1993, Bill Clinton’s embattled two terms, and then eight years under George W. Bush – represented an extraordinary period of lost opportunities for the nation as its global power peaked and began a rapid descent.
Notable for its bitter partisanship, mindless jingoism and willful historical amnesia, this era saw the United States fail to address its bloated energy consumption, reverse the decline in its manufacturing base, stop the erosion of the middle class, provide universal health care for its citizens and wisely deploy its military might.

So, on one level, the Democratic presidential battle has been a struggle over whether Democrats want to revert back to their brief hold on the White House in the 1990s (by picking Hillary Clinton) or strike off in a new direction (by nominating Barack Obama).

Early on, some Democrats told me they supported Sen. Clinton because her election would repudiate the Bush family and its nasty brand of politics. They envisioned a hard-working and battle-tested President Hillary Clinton completing some of the reforms that Republicans thwarted in the 1990s.
However, other Democrats have come to see the Clintons as less a cats-and-dogs enemy of the Bushes than two sides of the same coin, a kind of duopoly that is more common in Third World nations where two ruling families trade power back and forth without disrupting the power structure.

In this view, Bill Clinton essentially earned his bones with the Bush family in 1993 when he swept a dustbin full of Republican scandals under the rug – including the Iran-Contra Affair, Iraq-gate and the October Surprise question.
President Clinton may have thought he was being responsible and buying some bipartisan peace. But he actually cemented an incomplete and false history of the Reagan-Bush period, thus denying the American people a thorough understanding of what their government had done over those dozen years.

Clinton also freed up the Republican attack machine from playing defense for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, enabling it to go on the offensive against Clinton and his wife. In other words, Clinton’s acquiescence to the Reagan-Bush cover-ups proved to be both wrongheaded and shortsighted.
Yet Clinton didn’t seem to learn much. Despite the pummeling he took – including suffering only the second presidential impeachment in U.S. history – Bill Clinton still kept his Justice Department on the sidelines when George W. Bush stole the Florida election and thus the White House from Al Gore in 2000.

Then, after leaving office, Clinton made one of his chief priorities the forging of an alliance with George H.W. Bush, as they traveled around the world on humanitarian missions. This Bush-Clinton tandem became a feel-good measure of how Washington insiders gauge bipartisanship, the two ruling families working together.

Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton – having won a Senate seat from New York in 2000 – demonstrated another side of this elite bipartisanship. In 2002, she sided with President George W. Bush in his desire to invade Iraq and remained a staunch war supporter over the next several years.

All in all, at the start of 2005, the future of this Bush-Clinton duopoly looked fairly bright.
George W. Bush had secured a second term and Washington pundits lavished praise on his neoconservative vision for the Middle East, hailing the soaring rhetoric of his second Inaugural Address as well as the seemingly successful election in Iraq and other glimmers of hope across the region.
There was political talk, too, that Sen. John McCain had struck a deal with the Bushes, embracing George W. Bush’s reelection bid in 2004 with an understanding that he would get the Bush family’s backing in 2008 and possibly agree to pick Florida Gov. Jeb Bush as his running mate to set the stage for another Bush restoration in 2012.

On the Clinton side, there was optimism that Hillary Clinton was well positioned to win the Democratic nomination in 2008, with her staunch support of the Iraq War serving to dispel doubts among the general electorate about her national security credentials.

.....

However, 2005 didn’t play out as either the Bushes or the Clintons envisioned.

.....

On Dec. 17, 2007, a still-confident Bill Clinton offered voters a sense of what bipartisanship meant to Hillary Clinton. He announced that his wife’s first act in the White House would be to send him and George H.W. Bush on an around-the-world mission to explain that “America is open for business and cooperation again.”
In other words, the Clintons and the Bush patriarch would clean up some of the messes left behind by a headstrong Bush son. Implicit in this picture was the Clintons giving another pass to the Bush family.

.....

As the Democratic “base” started to rebel against this Bush-Clinton arrogance, Barack Obama’s support began to surge. In the Iowa caucuses, he pulled off a stunning victory, with Hillary Clinton stumbling in third behind John Edwards.

With dreams of their restoration suddenly threatened, the Clintons quickly turned to divisive tactics often associated with the Bushes and Republicans. Indeed, one of the arguments that I heard from Clinton operatives at the time was that it was their duty to destroy Obama now because otherwise the Republicans would do it in the fall.

.....

Yet, whatever was going through Clinton’s mind, the RFK reference – when combined with the Wallace/McCarthy/Atwater/Rove tactics that preceded it – there can be little doubt that the Clintons are grasping at whatever straws still might be available, no matter how flimsy or how slimy.

This ugly denouement has the look of an ugly era reaching an ugly end.

Arguably the Bush-Clinton duopoly might have a chance at another restoration if something bad does befall Obama or if John McCain wins as a likely one-termer in November.
If Obama loses, Hillary Clinton can say “I told you so” and make another run in 2012.
And perhaps another round of nostalgia for the Bushes might give Jeb a chance to carry the Bush family’s banner back into the White House four years from now.

But it looks more and more as if the American people have chosen to move on – leaving the disasters and the disgraces of the Bush-Clinton era to a sad chapter in the history books.











Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. stab it in the heart!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal Gramma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. And use the wooden stake!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
38. Silver bullets too!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. also please, fill its mouth with salt... and place silver in the eyes.
these are important steps
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. The world will be a better place for it.
:patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hallelujah! A change is coming, America.
:D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks seafan... I had forgotten this little gem that had
DU in an uproar in December except for the hilarys, of course.

"On Dec. 17, 2007, a still-confident Bill Clinton offered voters a sense of what bipartisanship meant to Hillary Clinton. He announced that his wife’s first act in the White House would be to send him and George H.W. Bush on an around-the-world mission to explain that “America is open for business and cooperation again.”
In other words, the Clintons and the Bush patriarch would clean up some of the messes left behind by a headstrong Bush son. Implicit in this picture was the Clintons giving another pass to the Bush family."


blm will love this thread:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That really chafed me. I knew then that the Bush corruption would be swept under the rug again.
I still fume over that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. It went over like one of those
"jokes" hilary tells.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. Well why not??
"Bill Clinton essentially earned his bones"

Wonder if they would take Kerry along?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #19
70. Clinton worked AGAINST Kerry as the last thing Bush-Clinton wanted was an open government advocate
Edited on Tue May-27-08 11:22 AM by blm
like John Kerry in office as he uncovered and exposed more government corruption and illegal operations of Poppy Bush and his cronies than any other lawmaker in modern history.

BushInc has tried to get Kerry out of DC and away from documents Kerry wanted YOU to see for decades - a shame that ignorance of the facts of our historic record and how we DO know what we do about the last 3 decades of BushInc escaped your attention and you want the lawmaker who has risked his life and career the MOST to get US that information to be chased out of DC, too.

But then, maybe you are not a fan of accurate historic recordkeeping and open government.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. blm has an encyclopedic mind when it comes to crimes committed by Poppy Bush
I always look forward to her posts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. i thought of her too....
it`s been her crusade here at du....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. I was angry as hell when he did it but I sometimes wonder if Bill really had any choice?
"In this view, Bill Clinton essentially earned his bones with the Bush family in 1993 when he swept a dustbin full of Republican scandals under the rug – including the Iran-Contra Affair, Iraq-gate and the October Surprise question."

Either sweep it under the rug or bear the wrath of Poppy, as in don't take any rides in small planes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
71. BushInc was at its most exposed and most vulnerable - they couldn't handle full exposure
and Clinton wasn't afraid of them - he was working FOR them, and Jackson Stephens - his benefactor in Arkansas, who was also protected from his involvements in GHWBush's illegal BCCI operations.

This Clinton couldn't have known schtick is horsepoo. Poppy was running his illegal IranContra cocaine out of an Arkansas airport for years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OhioBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. the article lays out perfectly
one of the main reasons I was hesitant about Hillary. I was neutral in the primary for quite a while. I could have backed any of the candidates. I thought Hillary would win, so I got used to the idea. I defended her endlessly. I was surprised and happy when Obama won Iowa. After SC, I was firmly an Obama supporter. After Ohio, I saw Hillary (and Bill) completely differently than I had before and the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton scenario sounded like a nightmare.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Main thing is a whole lot of us had
an evolutionary period regarding the clintons.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
46. And how
:insertpictureofMyGanghere:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
47. Mine was a very shocking experience.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R. Thanks for posting. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. A better thing couldn't happen in this country right now than the end of this
putrid dynasty - providing it is replaced with something better ie: NOT Republican and NOT DLC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. Then we shall be free
if Obama is not elected we face Orwellian years ahead
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. Yeah, more Orwellian Years
than our poor nation can handle right now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ruby slippers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
13. Era? I thought it was more like a DYNASTY.......
Geesh! And, actually, I think Dubya ruined Jeb's chances, too.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-25-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Yeah, jebby...another casualty of the
bush nightmare.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. A casualty I'll not cry over. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
41. Gawd I hope so. Jeb is the bottom moran of the Bush family.
Edited on Mon May-26-08 08:49 PM by L0oniX
Jeb screwed Florida real good and he didn't use protection. Now we have Busherpes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
johnypnemonic Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
17. 87% of Democrats believe Clinton's presidency was "pretty good or excellent"
From late April, 2008:
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=902


Yet some here want to pair Clinton with the worst president ever.

I will tell you what Krugman told Obama:

if I were a Democratic Party elder, I’d urge Mr. Obama to stop blurring the distinction between Clinton-era prosperity and Bush-era economic distress.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/opinion/18krugman.html?hp
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. The mods are doing their job! This one is gone after one post
zzzzzombie.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. The seeds of the "Bush-era economic distress" were all planted in the "Clinton-era
prosperity." It was prosperity for a few new tech millionaires, rich investors and professionals of various kinds, and for the super rich, who cleaned up, while the rug was pulled out from under the poor and working class majority, and outright treason was committed in U.S. trade deals and other global corporate predator agreements that guaranteed the destruction of U.S. manufacturing and the American middle class with the outsourcing of millions and millions of jobs. Clinton laid further groundwork for the Bush Junta with items like the Telecommunications Act. Global corporate predator 'news' monopolies were expanded and their fascist power over American political debate was cemented and made ready for a P.R. shyster like Karl Rove to write its political narratives. Finally, Clinton pummeled Iraq with no-fly zone bombings and ruinous sanctions, creating a pushover country for George W. Bush to "conquer" on the U.S. NeoCons' victory march across the Middle East.

Some principles of good government were maintained by Clinton. Items like emergency services worked as they were supposed to, efficiently providing aid to citizens in disasters. Some measure of open government was maintained, and some measure of integrity in government services and functions, such as EPA, NASA, and USGS science, and oversight of contractors, although clearly corporate lobbyists and lawyers were writing more and more of our laws and regs. The "military-industrial complex"--that monstrous menace to us all--received some oversight, and performed well in the tasks it was given, but disturbing items kept surfacing, such as the use of depleted uranium in munitions, and continued massive military budgets, which would destroy the country, in the end, when, under the Bush Junta--much like under the degenerate later Roman emperors--America lost all loyalty to the rule of law and initiated a heinous war purely out of greed for oil, while completely looting the "Clinton prosperity" for the benefit of war profiteers and the super-rich. Clinton gave these destructive forces little reason to fear the Democrats as the "party of FDR"--the advocate of the people and their government. "Organized money hates me--and I welcome their hatred'--FDR once said. Can anyone imagine Bill or Hillary Clinton saying that?

From Clinton to the Bush Junta was, indeed, a continuum. How can anyone deny this? And the leaders of the party of Clinton immediately began kissing Bush's ass on everything a fascist junta could ever desire--from unjust war to unjust taxation, from the Patriot Act to Bushite corporate-controlled "trade secret" voting machines, to multi-billion dollar no-bid contracts with no oversight and all the rest. Where was the Democratic Party when this dreadful, lawless regime began its destruction of everything we hold dear? It was running right along with it, because it wasn't the peoples' party any more. It was a shell of its former self. That's what Clinton did.

Krugman's warning that we mustn't dare see it this way sounds like a threat. If we don't accept corporate rule with a "D" in front of its name, then we get the Fourth Reich. That is an hysterical and false argument.

Clinton builds up a surplus by squeezing the poor. The Bushites come in and totally loot the surplus. Same thing happened in California. Democratic Gov. Davis built up a huge surplus; Enron looted it. And now Schwarzenegger is saying there isn't enough money for schools, or the meager health care system for the poor, or anything else. Gee, where did it go? That was going to be Hillary's line, come next year. Sorry, kids, all the money's gone. Gee, where did it go? Well, y'all just have to tighten your belts. It's one system--one continuum--for looting the poor, and enriching the rich.

Krugman used to be a better thinker than this. What a disappointment he is! But I have up on him when he went on vacation on 11/3/04.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. They were planted in the Reagan era and Newt's Congress. Clinton held it back.
Man, you can fool some of the people all the time esp. when a message board that is supposed to be made up with Democrats has more Republican operatives posting on it than actual Democrats.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
49. I started voting Democratic in 1964, friend, and have been a DEMOCRATIC PARTY political activist
from age 16, in 1960, to the present. How dare you call me a "Republican operative"! You got an argument to mount against the corporate takeover of the Democratic Party leadership under Clinton, fine. Let's hear it. Give us some facts and some analysis. But it appears to me that you don't have a clue what a real Democrat is like. I voted for Clinton on his promise to include labor and environmental protections in NAFTA. He broke that promise and others. I consider NAFTA, GATT, the WTO and other giveaways of our sovereignty as people to be worse that corporatism and putrid corruption. They are treason--the complete abandonment of the American people to global corporate predators. It started under Reagan, accelerated under Clinton, and now we have corporate/fascist rule completed. That is out situation. Prove me wrong.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #49
58. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #49
67. Amen, Peace Patriot!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Genevieve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
18. Thank youso much for posting this....K and Rec.....nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Genevieve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
22. I reread this
Kicking for the morning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Utopian Leftist Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R, Important!
I sincerely hope and pray that President Obama will investigate the Clinton-Bush Crime Dynasty. The arrogance of the Clintons to believe that they could get away with hoodwinking the entire country for so long . . . it boggles the mind.

And after reading this article it is now obvious why the Clintons have clung so desperately to their absurdly tiny shred of hope of getting their paws back on the reigns of the country: their duplicity may soon be revealed to all the world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
24. This is as good an analysis of the Bush-Clinton dynasty as I've ever read!
Sweeping under the rug crimes and abuses committed during the Reagan/Bush era was one of the hallmarks of the Clinton Administration.

To that we can add keeping the School of the Americas open, to train new generations of murderers and torturers, and the genocidal Plan Colombia.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
26. Excellent, thanks! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
27. Perfect.
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
29. Great Article
I cringed the first time I heard Senator Clinton say that it would take a Clinton to clean up after a Bush again. I wanted no part of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
30. Stunning post.
You hit all the points.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
31. "Bush-Clinton Era"? Is that like "Nixon-Carter Era"? Is that how we got Reagan? Grow up DU.
Edited on Mon May-26-08 07:27 PM by McCamy Taylor
This is just more McCain propaganda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. god you are so uninformed if you really think that. you need to grow up
Robert Parry is one of the best real journalists working in the United States today. He was the U.S. reporter who broke the Iran-Contra story after it was sort of "ignored" by the media. He was working at Newsweek at the time and lost his job over it. He was nominated for a Pulitizer based upon that work.

He has also delved into the connected BCCI story, as well as Rev. Moon's close asso. with the Bush family politics and Moon's work with fascists in both central American and Korea. He covered the story of what happened to reporter Gary Webb, who was also pushed out of a job and harrassed beyond reason for his role in uncovering the cocaine smuggling the CIA was doing in CA...also done in asso. with Iran-Contra. Our own govt agencies were selling drugs in the U.S. How sick is that?

His book, Lost History, is really mind boggling because of all the things he documents that have been swept under the rug by the mainstream media. You may not like to know that Clinton is just as corrupt, but, you know, that doesn't mean it isn't true.

Iran-Contra was TREASON. Do you get that? It was an extra-constitutional act that should have put Poppy and Oliver North and a host of others in jail. Instead, Ollie's payoff seems to be a spot with Fox and Poppy and Clinton are free to golf together and plan on cleaning up after Baby Bush.

one of my great fears is that Clinton would pardon the criminals in the Bush administration. I don't think for one minute she would really put any emphasis on their crimes. Luckily for the U.S., since our entire govt is so corrupt at this time, the int'l criminal court can deal with the war criminals here. I wish someone would book them all for a weekend in Tahiti and instead fly them to Great Britain where they could be arrested as soon as the plane landed.

Robert Parry is a national treasure and you really do not commend yourself by dismissing him because he says something you don't like. How many Pulitzers have you been nominated for?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #44
59. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #44
69. No, Tahiti is French...
They can be booked to Tahiti and "booked" in Tahiti. too ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
52. note who carter strongly supports now
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
33. The HORROR is almost over.
Long live the new era!!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
34. since the bush-clinton era started just after reagan was shot
i`d say it`s time for someone new......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
35. End of the Democratic Party
Enjoy. It will take a long time to revive it, purging the idiots who think Bill Clinton is the same as Bush will take some time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. i know, is`t it awful.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
36. If Parry thinks Sen Unity Obama is going to make the Bush League pay for their sins he is delusional
Edited on Mon May-26-08 07:37 PM by McCamy Taylor
Obama is a corporate candidate, too, and the same corporations that brought/bought him to power favor the Bush family. He will kiss David Rockefeller's ass the same way that everyone except that John Edwards, Gravel and Kucinich would have.

I have seen this same tired song and dance from these same delusional media idiots so many times in the last 40 years that it is not funny. Corporate Democrats--even the Black ones---will always protect the corporations. Obama will only get elected if he promises to protect the people in the boardrooms and that is the ones who called for the war crimes in Iraq. It is the bosses at Chevron and Exxon and Shell who pulled the strings. They are the killers. No one ever holds them accountable.

Parry just sounds like all the guys from the 70s and 80s and 90s. Pitiful dreamers.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. you have convinced me there is`t any reason to vote for anyone
thank you for taking a weight off my shoulders...

freedom from choice
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. Agree, he's a fool
Obama is even more indebted to criminals than Bush.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frog92969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. "Obama is even more indebted to criminals than Bush."
You so funny
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Can you prove it?
Are his campaign finance reports filled with corporate contributions or contributions from "middle America" which is what is usually revealed by these reports? Last time I checked, there didn't seem to be much interest in him by the oligarchy. Until you can prove otherwise, I will view John McCain and Hillary Clinton in terms of the oligarchy and Barack Obama in terms of the democracy.

The Bushes may have made a deal with John McCain but be assured they planned on Hillary Clinton becoming president. She may yet be able to steal the nomination but she has divided the party to the point I doubt she could win any states other than those whose Democrats apparently believe racism is still an acceptable part of our society.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #50
63. Of course he can't
because both of the Clinton agitators who posted in this thread are too chicken to post an answer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #43
73. Name ONE who hurt this nation more than Clinton's pals GHWBush, Jackson Stephens, Bin Ladens
Dubai and Saudi royals, AQ Khan, and others involved in BCCI matters who were also protected By Clinton throughout the 90s.

Gee - you think maybe this nation would have been better off if a Bushprotecting Dem like Clinton would NOT have won in 1992 and BushInc would have been held accountable for their crimes and illegal operations, impeached as EXPECTED, and a Gore-Kerry ticket emerged in 1996?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #36
53. i fear you are correct, but that does not change the repulsiveness of the clintons
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #36
56. You're unbelievable.
You know fuck nothing about the guy, it is obvious.

He's probably one of the most cynical reporters you'll ever read. He, like so many others, really sees the need to end the dynastic politics that have been ongoing for the last two two decades.

Instead of offering anything of substance to repudiate any of Parry's work, you call him a dreamer? LOL. what a joke. He's a goddamn good investigative reporter who will be as hard on Obama when he is president.

Yeah, too bad he can't offer "mythical analysis" of the American psyche. that's so much more fact-based and devoid of bullshit. He could run circles around you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #36
60. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
45. Excellent. I'd forgotten about America being open for business again
Robert Parry gets it. I'm so happy enough people do too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LaStrega Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
51. emphatically enthusiastic k/r ... n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hardtoport Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
54.  If you don't believe Bush and Clinton are the flip side of the same coin
then Google Bill Clinton and extraordinary rendition. Google Bill Clinton and the Iraq Liberation Act. Hell, just Google Bill Clinton. Toss out all the Right Wing noise and stick with the venues you trust. The results are still shocking.

Go to PBS's website and check out Frontline's Extraordinary Rendition. Is PBS to be trusted?

Read it and tell me if you think Shrubya's tactics weren't a continuation of the Clinton Administration's.

http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/rendition701/

How about the ACLU? I hardly think they're tools of John McCain or the VRWC. Or is that the VLWC nowadays?

www.aclu.org/safefree/extraordinaryrendition/22203res20051206.html

Bill Clinton ordered the first extraordinary rendition which led to the execution of Abu Talal al-Qasimi in Egypt. Bill Clinton opened that can of worms. If you defend his rationalization for it, then you must justify the Bush Administration's use of it. Extraordinary rendition is a violation of international law ( The 1994 U.N. Convention Against Torture ) whether it was done during the Bush Administration or the Clinton Administration. The ends never justify the means.

Oh, and BTW, does it look like these tactics prevented terrorism?

How do you feel about the NYTimes? They endorsed Hillary. Are you willing to believe them?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980DE0DD1131F935A25752C1A96E958260&scp=2&sq=Iraq+Liberation+Act+Bill+Clinton&st=nyt

Bill Clinton signed the Iraqi Liberation Act that made it the United States policy to implement regime change in Iraq in 1998. Under Clinton, Shiite militias and other factions that opposed Saddam were armed and funded. Bush started and Hillary supported this war because were implementing U.S. policy. Just chew that over for a while.

Note that Gen. Anthony C. Zinni was ignored by the Clinton Administration just as he was by the Bush Administration:

Gen. Anthony C. Zinni of the Marines, the American commander in the gulf, opposed the act. ''I think a weakened, fragmented, chaotic Iraq, which could happen if this isn't done carefully, is more dangerous in the long run than a contained Saddam is now,'' he said. ''I don't think these things have been thought out.''

I could also get into how Clinton waged an illegal war like Bush, or how he expanded executive privilege to avoid legal troubles like Bush, or how he, like Bush, abused Presidential pardons, but this is getting long and I think we can all use the Google. Mr. Parry is right. There is a dime's worth of difference between the last two Administrations. If Hillary were able to get into the WH, she would not hold the Bush Administration responsible because to pull on those threads would also unravel the Clintons.

I could care less to get involved in some primary flame war over who's the biggest Kool Aid junkie. My purpose in this is to share what I've learned in the course of vetting the candidates and to encourage people to use the resources you have to prevent history from repeating itself. Do with it what you will.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
55. Note the lie----he ignores the Race Memo. Dems, if we do not discuss this now, McCain will this fall
And it will not be pretty.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Melinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Speaking of ignoring... answer posts 44 & 49, otherwise you're at risk for being exposed as a troll.
Edited on Tue May-27-08 03:16 AM by Melinda
Why won't you respond to the questions asked of you? I mean, you have such a sterling reputation as a learned man... surely you don't wish to be thought a troll, do you?

Do you?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #57
61. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. Your lying , your lying, you are just lying,lying,lying,lying,lying,
You are a liar, a big fat liar, you liar, liar, liar, liar. I have nothing to refute what you say but you are just a liar,liar,liar and that's all i have to say, you are just a liar :argh:



btw, some of them are even more genius. They get past the seven year old level of conversation and start using those bigger words like prevaricate. So be careful because they can be tricky with those bigger ones ;-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 04:26 AM
Response to Original message
64. CLINTON/BUSH ERA RIP 1981-2009
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
65. The conflation of Bush with Clinton is absolute and utter
RUBBISH...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. he is talking about family dynasties
which I think is absolutely correct. ppl just now coming of age to vote have known of two family names in office.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #65
68.  Parry has it right. Hearing/reading the truth hurts. I went through it.
Twelve years of defending the Clintons and then her one vote and it all unravelled for me - with the help of the people who explained some things - especially NAFTA - and then seeing the proof of what I was told - it all helped me because I couldn't turn off all the light bulbs that went on.

At first I thought the Clintons were more Christian or magnanimous than I could be in their forgiveness of the Bushes. I made corrections in my path to the truth. Felt like I had lost a long defensive fight. I don't feel betrayed, I just feel kind of stupid - that I couldn't see through it.

If they don't pull this off, we must call for some kind of an end to the DLC. That could mean that they form a new Party. Perhaps they should. Their friends with millions could be offset by us with our dollar bills.

I wish them well, but not in the White House again. They were riding high in popularity and blew it. Hopefully, with some truth from them, we can find a comfort place.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
72. Kicking this (and it won't be the last time)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 15th 2024, 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC