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Excellent article illustrating the Clintons lack of principle in their last days campaigning

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 05:02 PM
Original message
Excellent article illustrating the Clintons lack of principle in their last days campaigning
Guy T. Saperstein's "What Game Is Hillary Playing?" is an excellent analysis on the Clinton's last hurrah and how they have imposed an ever-decreasing level of standards when it comes to the truth, making valid claims and displaying a case of desperate behavior that is bound to be part of the Clinton legacy:

Hillary Clinton had 15 representatives on the 30-member Rules Committee and every single one of Clinton's representatives supported this Rules Committee decision, which passed unanimously; Democratic parties in 48 states followed the rule, but Michigan and Florida chose not to. Subsequently, no Democratic candidate campaigned in either state and no Democratic candidate, except Hillary Clinton was even on the ballot in Michigan. The Clinton campaign now contends that these wholly undemocratic elections -- even the Stalinist one-candidate election in Michigan -- must count or democracy itself will be imperiled. Harold Ickes, one of Hillary's representatives on the Rules Committee who voted for the rule barring counting the Michigan and Florida votes, and Hillary's chief negotiator of this issue, was asked recently on one of the Sunday morning political talk shows, "You voted for the Rules Committee decision, but now you are complaining about it. What has changed?" Ickes replied, "What has changed is that now we are behind." So, there it is -- there is not an ounce of principle in the Clinton position.

(snip)

Ignoring all rules established for the Democratic primaries, which all Democratic candidates, except Hillary Clinton, followed, the Clintons now also contend that the elaborate system of caucuses and primary votes which have been used for this and prior presidential elections should be ignored in favor of reliance only on popular vote counts. In other words, 48 states have been actively engaged in following established rules, but now, at the end of the process, the Clintons propose to jettison the rules and substitute their own new interpretation. Not only is the threshold proposal absurd on its face, the Clintons don't even count the popular vote fairly: They include votes in the Michigan primary, where Hillary was the only candidate on the Democratic ballot and Obama got zero votes, and exclude hundreds of thousands of caucus votes in the caucus states. If all votes are counted, Obama wins by every metric, including popular vote, and he currently is 180+ votes ahead in the delegate count.

(snip)

Hillary and Bill are not acting like leaders, they are acting like self-absorbed adolescents, thinking that if they whine loudly enough people will accommodate them. This is not leadership, this is petulance. They will go down in this race, but not without their own sense of righteousness and value intact. This conveniently avoids the unpleasant prospect of actually taking responsibility for why they lost. Introspection does not come easy to the Clintons, but during the next four years, let's hope they try some.

http://www.alternet.org/election08/86359?page=entire


With other recent statements from the Clintons about how there is a cover-up within the Democratic Party and insinuations by some Clinton supporters that they would vote for McCain, who many remember was more or less endorsed by Hillary Clinton, it certainly makes clear-eyed Democrats wondering just what the Clintons are more concerned with... a Democratic White House or some phantasmagoric delusion that the Clintons win at our peril.


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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. K/R
And the reason they wanted to sanction FL and MI in the beginning was due to fear another candidate would get an advantage over Clinton. Now that it happened even with their string pulling, more dirty tricks are in order. Reality is a bitch for those folks.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. previously referenced
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Thanks for referencing that...
I didn't see it in that thread.

:thumbsup:

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KSinTX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
20. Thanks for fleshing it out
Edited on Wed May-28-08 09:27 AM by KSinTX
The stunner, which I think I've heard in the past yet never ceases to amaze, is: "What has changed is that now we are behind."

On edit: I can't get the link this time. Don't know if server's down or not. Just FYI.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. "What has changed is that now we are behind."
Finally, a modicum of truth oozes its way out of the Clinton campaign.

:kick: and REC'D!!!
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. In a documentary about the Clinton campaign, that certainly is a slate screen...
...leading into the Last Act.

That's actually one of the few honest statements from the Clinton campaign.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. She had the nomination in her hands and pissed it away.
She has had plenty of chances to exit gracefully but chose instead to behave like a jackass in her demented insistence that this nomination is hers.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. It is astounding how badly she and Bill want to damage their legacy for short-term folly
As someone on one of the MSM pundit shows made a point of, it's as though the Clintons don't understand the new political reality of two things: Google and YouTube.

It's as though they think people can't see previous statements or can't look up previous positions. They are truly so last century...

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. The Clintons believe win at all cost and then smooth it over.
Unfortunately for them, they miscalculated and will forever be remembered for this embarrassing chapter of their careers.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I think we've already seen the movie before...
"Smoothing it over" is long past impossible at this point.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Yep...Fool us once, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera!
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. There's an old Klingon saying that goes
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, prepare for doom."
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Thanks for the link.
I loves me some Matt Taibbi!
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GoesTo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. They've definitely changed history's ranking of Bill
From average-above average down to below average.

It's now clearer that Bill's legacy includes the loss of the senate and congress, and Gore's loss in 2000. He paved the way for Bush's terms which undid much of his legislation.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. The clintons have been getting away with their crap
for too long..it's their nature but this is our country and they are not going to hijack it again.

Thanks, zulch..I love articles like these that explicitly lay out how bilary is trying to CHEAT.
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
12. "This is not leadership, this is petulance. "
Bingo.


Billary is like the abusive spouse who kills their supposed loved-one to prevent them from leaving.
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
14. her campaign was ran so poorly it's embarrassing.
Honestly, she coasted on the "Inevitability" thing, while Obama worked at winning Iowa. She felt she'd have it wrapped up by Super Tuesday, and he did the groundwork in all those states that came after that in February. He rolled her 11 in a row and that pretty much has been the ballgame. Florida and Michigan were insignificant, her campaign felt they weren't needed, they agreed to the rules and worked on getting SDs committed at an early juncture. It's interesting to see the way the Clintons reacted when they realized she almost had no shot of winning. All of a sudden, Florida and Michigan matter. And only certain states matter. Then all of a sudden she gets a big victory or two in smaller states and that means she's more electable. Truly fascinating the lengths they are going to get power. Not too good for the party, but an interesting study.
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. And she sold her soul to get those two wins
by lying and becoming the "white mans" candidate.

I read an article yesterday that basically said the reason the Clinton's are sooooooo desperate now in not only their need to get in the WH, but because they have burned their bridges behind them. Her popularity in NY had diminished, there have been at least one protest outside his Harlem office and her standing in the Senate has been tarnished. Another article said that when she recently returned to the Senate for hearings, that there were eight empty seats around her because her Democratic colleagues did not want to be associated with her.

The Clintons have played this game their way, and because Barack didn't stoop to their level, their behavior has become apparent. They have used race in their strategy while screaming gender bias, and only those that support them blindly have not seen the falicy of their words/arguments. They used "white speak" thinking that only the population they were covertly speaking to would understand their words; not realizing that many of us who do not agree with it would also understand. They played the game and they lost, but they are very bad losers. :mad:
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Kaleko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
15. What the Clintons insist on is, in effect, lawlessness.
All the crying and whining when this simple fact is pointed out to them is becoming a case study for armchair psychologists around the world.

Truly a stunning display of contempt for the intelligence of the electorate.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 05:16 AM
Response to Original message
16. It is such a great article it can't even get the number of candidates on the MI ballot correct
Dodd and Kucinich were also on the ballot. If he can't get that right, why should I trust him at all.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. dodd and kucinich are no longer in the race..
try and keep up.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. you don't need a reason to dismiss this
your blinded by your support for Hillary irregardless.
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raebrek Donating Member (467 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 05:32 AM
Response to Original message
17. quit it n/t
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Sorry, it's never time to stop telling the truth
This OP nails it. If the truth hurts, too bad.

The Clintons don't get a free pass for their usual triangulation and deception.

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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
21. K & R
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
22. The reality...
The Clintons have never had any principles at all. They were just good con artists. Nothing more.
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katerinasmommy Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
23. Can anyone tell me?
Why on God's Green Earth did anyone ever think that Bill Clinton was good for either the Democratic party or liberal issues? I have never understood that. Welfare reform, NAFTA, Don't Ask Don't Tell, which was an INSULT to gays, loss of congress, failed health care reform, I could go on and on. And lets not pretend that he had so much to do with the economy of the times either. It was under him that the gap between rich and poor dramatically began to increase. It was then that the joke started about low paying services jobs in this country, "There have been millions of jobs created! Yeah and I have two of them". I only started feeling a bit kinder to him when Bush came into office and compared to that, well, Clinton looked brilliant. But now I am reminded of all the reasons why I've always despised the Clintons. Absolutely soulless.
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DeeDeeNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
24. K & R
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WA98296 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
27. "self-absorbed adolescents" sums it up. Thanks for the article.
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cushla_machree Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
29. hillary supporters are driving me nuts
IF she doesn't win, we are going to vote for McCain!

How old are we? So you would destroy the country even more because you are acting like a baby because YOUR candidate just couldn't past muster?

And all this Hillary is losing because of sexism crap. Did any of them stop to think that people just don't like the Clinton's, and i am not talking about for the usual right wing conspiracy reasons. some of us just don't like their style of politics, the end! I certainly won't vote for her just cause she is a woman!

Either way, we get a black man or a woman candidate, historic all around, you can't win them all the first time.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
31. K&R!!!
I read this article the other day and realized that no matter what the "facts" are, it doesn't matter to Hill/Bill.

- They are the saddest excuse for Democrats that I've ever seen.....
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Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
32.  "What has changed is that now we are behind."
An extremely rare bit of honesty from the Clinton campaign. I wonder if Ickes realized he gave proof to what Obama supporters have been saying all along.
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nvme Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
33. Hill just walk on by
you don't need us voters just seize the throne
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
34. There are so many public condemnations of their actions, how is it possible
that people on this board can still support her?

She is scum.

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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
35. K&R
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