A little respect, please.

grief. sadness. A dream drifting away.

I know that you say that you hate her. I have admired, respected and supported her for years.

She and her husband are faithful democrats. I feel like they made a big change to the democratic pary. I cared about her. It's hard to turn that off.

Don't rub it in my face.

She is still....a good, faithful democrat and her husband is too. If you feel the need to diparage them, then head over to Free Republic. They will welcome you with open arms. I'm a democrat. I pay my dues....and I am hurting. Leave her alone. Leave me alone. If you dont', I wont' find my way to obama.

Oh, we used to have it here on DU. Maybe it will come back. Stay around until it does.

And vote for the Dem candidate. I will, whoever it turns out to be.

reigning in Those Few Shitty DUers who do things like trash Obama's hero uncle, I would be more inclined to go along with you.

But as long as they're around, unchecked by Clinton's own, the battle goes on.

Not looking to slam you or anything, just to understand what my thinking on it is.

agree in full

;:;I don't even...ummm....care about Obama's uncle: Auschwitz, buchenwald...hmmmm....it's all about freeing those who have been victimized in horrible ways to me too. It doesn't matter that there are a few unchecked Clintons ... it's about the democratic party, isn't it?

it strikes me as odd to complain that you're not... um... being differentiated from Those Shitty Few DUers.

If you aren't differentiating yourself from the OTHER DU'ers, AND the Op Eds, AND the MSM, OR if you think it's OK to use

Whore
Bitch
"Iron my Shirt"
Harridan
Liar
Traitor
Neocon
Racist

as some seem to do here.....

Wonder why more Clinton Supporters aren't rushing to the Obama Campaign?

nor am I pretending to hold the Democratic party and the country hostage to my Whiny Ass Titty Baby-ness unless everyone starts being nice to me.

It really doesn't matter, of course - you guys HAVE NO HOSTAGE. The vast majority of Clinton supporters will vote for the nominee in the fall. You know it, and I know it. The 300 or so of you here and on Hillaryis44 who won't are of course free to whine about your imagined slights as long as you like. Or as long as Skinner lets you, at any rate.

You got nuthin, and will get nuthin. You lose.

All the local polls in Michigan show a likely Republican win. They win here a lot, and without Michigan, Obama likely loses.

The number is 1 of 16. That's all the Clinton Supporters you have to lose, just not vote, not even vote for McCain to lose the election worse than McGovern.

Would it KILL you to make nice? And we have been treated shabbily, by the Democrats and the entire nation.

You lose. You just lose.

Note that I was the soul of politeness in this thread, until your jackass and completely irrelevant mirror remark. Again: treatment is based upon your behavior.

I hope you enjoy your search for a hostage to take against the Democratic nominee, because god knows you got ZILCH right now.

You have a strange idea of polite. No one wants a "hostage." What they want is what you won't give: personal respect.

That's pretty polite.

Though I wish I had seen the OP's pledge to not vote for Obama in the general election before I entered this thread. Oh well - nothing wrong with defaulting to the good in people.

Personally, I think Obama will be nominated, and if Michigan is any indication, go down in flames.

However, if he DOES surprise me and get elected, and if the country just follows the same pattern it has for over a century, he will be excoriated, accomplish little or nothing, and not be re-elected.

I, on the other hand, will put up wind generators and tend my greenhouses and hobby farm, rewarding my dogs well for eating unwanted visitors. I will be far enough out in the country that when this whole shithouse burns down, my only worries should be getting bored with my library and DVD collection.

The rest of us will continue on.

or maybe FRANCE.

Until then, enjoy the mud wrestling. I've had 40 years of it now, and I'm utterly bored with it. In the words of Forrest Gump, "Stupid is as Stupid does," and this is one stupid country.

:wave:

I'll think of you all while I'm safe, sound, warm and fed with the rest of my extended family. May you be so lucky, but I doubt it. Have a nice Depression.

:shrug:

If I'm still ALIVE.

Somehow I doubt that.

You're not the only one who has fought for a lot of things in a lot of ways. But you are one turning your back on that fight in a fit of petulance.

COMPROMISE is the GOD of the secular UNITED STATES.

However, the Obama Supporters, after their complete vilificaton of Clinton and her Supporters, expect them to just come on down and sing "COOMBYAH?"

If you can't see that as patently insane, then I really can't help you. ALL of the Democrats have disappointed me this time. There is no petulance in that.

The disaster pending is only to be escaped, as the Pelosi, Dean, Brazille DNC/DLC pundits have spoken, and their voices are delusional.

I will not jeopardize the safety of my family, or my own health through frustration in what I see as a self-decided lost cause through factionalism. The coming Depression, and the POSSIBLE (in my mind LIKELY) unrest in the cities will have to go on without me. 40 years of intense political activism, and 13 years in the US NAVY...I've done my bit. I'm taking my leave.

Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus served Rome and retired to his farm, as did George Washington.



"With one hand he returns the fasces, symbol of power as appointed dictator of Rome. His other hand holds the plow,as he resumes the life of a citizen and farmer." — A statue of Cincinnatus in Cincinnati, Ohio.

But I'd posit that you still care a lot more than you want to admit, or you wouldn't still be here trying to get through to people. I share your frustration about our pending future, and see it pretty much the same way.

The Democrats have disappointed me for years and years now, but they're also the only viable game in town to at least slow down what we see coming. Whether it's too little too late or not remains to be seen (I suspect it is), but I see no point in just accepting that fate. I can't do it, even if I wanted too. Fighting for what I believe is right is literally all I know, and I'd be lost if I walked away from it. And worse, I'd never forgive myself.

This is far bigger than what Obama supporters want or expect, and I think you make a mistake in focusing on that aspect. I personally don't think they expect anyone to be singing songs of peace and harmony, but they do see what's at stake, just as surely as we do, and know the consequences of not following through and voting for Obama will just hasten the very future we fear.

Maybe it takes a while to post 125 and then 126.

Tried to PM you, but you don't have that feature checked. I posted a response about something I said to you the other day.

Here's the link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6154682&mesg_id=6171225

I do not feel I need to justify myself to you.

Neither side is blameless and you are not VICTIMS, though Hillary would like you to think you are.

Welcome back, anyway.

Peace, love and happiness,

Radio Lady in Oregon

I think it's certainly appropriate to use the words "racist" and "liar." There's noting inherently sexist about either of the words and they are appropriately used to describe some of the tactics or falsehoods being used.

Regards

I've read no one criticize Obama's uncle.

I have seen a great many straw men set up:
a) "Uncle"? "Auschwitz"? Who was this uncle? His mom was an only child, and Auschwitz was liberated by the Russians.
b) it was a great uncle and it was Dachau. Why do you hate the troops?
a) uh....
b) I have no respect for Shitty DUers like you who trash Obama's hero uncle.

You have stated many times that Hillary's supporters should buck up and get in line, and that only an idiot allows what is said by a candidate's supporters to influence how they vote.

I would be more inclined to go along with you.

Yet, you're disinclined to show the OP any respect because someone else pointed out an Obama misstatement. This observation has been twisted in the collective unconscious to a criticism of WWII soldiers.

The general election is going to be a horribly rude awakening.

Time to come together

And be responsible for our own actions. Blaming our actions on others doesn't really cut it.

or any number of other ... shall we say "extreme" Obama zealots ... and yet you expect that of us.

So why and HOW are we Hillbots supposed to reign in our overzealous colleagues (maybe I'm one of them that needs reigning in ... )?

Bake

comported themselves, I actually miss my crush on the big dog. I was never a huge Hillary fan, but I appreciate much of what she has done in her public life...

When she stops this nonsense that's hurting our Party, maybe then.
When her "supporters" stop spamming DU with their FReepish trollshit,
maybe then.


Not before.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I didn't see her last paragraph before I wrote my response to you. I don't like the anger, but I understand your point.

Peace,
sw

I'll try my best to be understanding...but I will continue to fight the Clinton supporters who insist on being nasty and vile.

bargained for or leveraged.

Respect can only be bestowed freely and voluntarily.

I know how you feel. Kucinich dropped out of the race a few months back, and I was disappointed.

From not knowing him at all, I've come to like the guy.

I hope he continues to play an important role in US politics.

Ohio's finest! I always vote for that man when he is on the ballot ALWAYS!Just like I always voted for Tony Hall.

Mama always used to say...

And how we, the Kucinich supporters, were treated?

Remember how we responded to the baseless, rude, and condescending attacks?

honest and upfront, and he takes care of his constituents. His primary battle was just more proof of how talented he is.

If Dennis had the name recognition and the funds that Sen. Clinton had, he'd be our next president.

Oh well, I'm glad he's in the house and will work with the grass-roots that the Obama campaign has energized.

I do like the colors!

Obama said he would repeal Bushler's executive orders. It seems Obama is listening to Kucinich. ;)

THAT is the 'Kucinich thing to do'! :patriot:

.

Was Kucinich, then Edwards, no Obama.

I guess Im too liberal to believe the Clintons really were "good Democrats" when Bill was President.

He instituted more GOP policies than even Reagan or Bush I dared, and the cost to the rest of the Democratic party was great.

(Why vote for Dem's imitating Republicans when Newt promised the real thing?)

But for all that, Im sorry your dream wont happen this time.

In 92 Clinton was the best they had at that moment. But I have always considered them to be republicrats.
Now we have a better choice.

I'm not fantasy, right-wing, non-democrat. Just because I supported Clinton doens't mean that I supported coat hanegers and whetever else you have up your sleeve. I feel so done. I have always voted democrat. Always.
Obama more than you support her...over her...instead of her. That doesn't make her a republican.

The democratic candidates are shades of gray people.

Shades. Of Gray.

A lot of us supported DK (twice) and watched our hopes turn to ashes. This time around, my fallback was Edwards, and again I had a bitter pill to swallow when he too packed it up. It's a tough thing to watch your candidate wave the white flag. But that's politics. I feel a whole lot better about Obama than I used to, but it took some time, and in time, I hope you can get to the same place.

Cheers.

So much for reconciliation, then, eh?

Clutch your pearls, because you probably aren't going to like this - Hillary and that pig husband of hers are spitting in the face of loyal Democrats every day that they continue this farce. You know it's over...why don't they?

It's useless to reason with you, and people like you who would react this way.

have supported their candidate enthusiastically and loyally all these months without trying to advance those parts of the Clinton campaign that were designed to have a negative impact on the GE campaign.

I find it hard to keep all the different posters differentiated by the kinds of posts that they made. There were many in this category. I have communicated with them in both posts and PMs.

You will have to decide whether or not you are in this category or not.

Makes it hard to see sometimes that the OVERWHELMING majority of supporters of both candidates are good people who want what they think is best for the country, and have their own heartfelt, valid reasons for admiring the person they support.


I'm sorry for your loss. I mean that sincerely.

and still think Bill and Hill aren't worth the energy to spit on them.

I am so tired of the selfishness I see here. Sacrifice the country as retribution for your candidate's loss. I mean seriously, :wtf:


Kucinich didn't win, therefore I'm voting McCain! :crazy: Doesn't seem too rational...

Ya know, I can't even imagine throwing the fits that some of the Hillary supporters are throwing when Kucinich was treated horribly by the press and many on this board. When he dropped out, I can't imagine attempting to extort Hillary, Edwards, or Obama supporters for my vote.

This is especially vivid in my mind because of the years of some Hillary supporters dismissive and nasty remarks to the progressives on this board. Referring to themselves as "reality based", pumping the line that "the grown-ups were in charge", and many other delusional de grandeur memes.

Now that the progressives have taken the reigns from the republican wing of the Democratic party, the gnashing of the teeth from the Hillary supporters is infuriating, to say the least.

Kucinich was my first choice.

Guess what? I moved on. It's called reality. It pays to adapt.

Part of the problem right now is the bogus claims about "winning the popular vote", the hypocrisy about "counting the votes" in FL and MI (when Hillary signed off on the DNC scheduling rules just like everyone else) the talking points, and the threats to raise a high holy foot-stompin' stink all the way to the convention.

Much hinges upon how she plays things in the next week or two. You seem like you have a reasonable grasp of the situation. Many of us fear that, due to her words and recent actions, Hillary does NOT have a reasonable grasp of the situation, and intends to needlessly tear this party apart until August.

Believe me when I say I personally have no desire to rub anyone's face in anything. I understand what it is to admire and respect Hillary Clinton. I remember standing in a huge crowd at the Daley Center in Chicago in October of 1992.. it was a very inspirational moment in my political life. The Clintons had no bigger fans, and defenders, in the 1990s than me.

If she does the right thing and drops out, and works to unify this party, after the last Primary on the 3rd of June, I think the nastiness will fade fairly quickly.

...commas and periods.

I don't go around disparaging Hillary or her supporters. But I will jump on the nastiest posts, especially the racist ones, and/or just put the person on ignore. Anyone who posts supporting Hillary without sinking to that level has my respect.

But if Hillary continus on this path and takes this nasty fight to the convention, thereby jeopardizing the general election, I can't say how I will react to those who support the destruction of the party.

What does that tell you?

Listen. It's not personal. But there is going to be some celebrating once this becomes official. You have to expect that. Do you think Patriots fans were keen to hang out in NY Giants bars the night they got upset in the Superbowl? No. Was it because NY Giants fans were assholes? No. They were just celebrating their big win.

Everybody needs to just chill out. Obama people need to celebrate respectfully. Hillary people need to not take celebration of our candidate as a personal affront.

in their Rove-like maneuvers to wrest this process out of the hands of legitimacy. I can no more respect those people anymore than I can respect the people who voted for Bush twice. Oh sure, we could meet on the street, or share a few drinks and connect in areas not related to politics and it would be all and well, but I would be lying if I said that I'd have the same opinion of them as I started if I were made aware of the fact that they shunned reality and reason in support of scorched-earth, destructive ambition. I just can't do it.

I hope that you will come to realize it is a much greater gain than you would have imagined it could be.

My father just lost his best friend of forty years in a motorcycle accident yesterday. That is the kind of thing I'd rather save my grieving energy for. Stop making politics so fucking personal.

Thank you, I know my post sounds a little harsh but damn, I live in the real world. My best friend has not heard from her husband in Iraq in days and is having a nervous breakdown right now. I don't really care about folks e-feelings and I'm sure as hell not going to respect them because they demand it or because they loooove Hillary so much. Give me a break, I say it again I don't care. You can love and admire whoever the hell you want but do not threaten me by saying "you may not find your way to Obama" I mean look, this forum has options: hide thread and ignore. If folks e-feelings are easily hurt then I suggest they utilize both options. No amount of bitching on a message board is going to make me respect the Hill fans or Hillary for that matter.

People need some damn perspective. What's going on in Washington is one thing and sure it's important, but it's still a hell of a lot farther away from us than the shit that really and truly matters. I'm sorry for your friend's husband. I hope she hears word soon. :(

I was ok with the OP until I got to the "might not find my way to Obama" part. What the fuck? A person is "threatening" to vote against the Democratic candidate just because of some rude posts on an anonymous message board????

Thank you for your post reminding us of the realities outside cyberspace.

I mean honestly, when someone is standing in the poll with their ballot in front of them, are they actually thinking: "Take THAT Democrat Underground!"

:puke:

This poster is a trip. Search her shit out. She just wants to be important. The doctors wife with her herd of kids can wipe my ass.

you hurt my e-feelings or i have strong e-feelings for you. can you e-hate and e-love? there are some posters that i like more than others are they my e-homies? hahaha

way to support Obama. Like you said, you are a democrat. If Obama is the democratic nominee, I certainly hope that you realize how important it is that we all band together. I do not condone vicious attacks and disrespectful remarks for any democratic candidate. But also please understand that this is a matter of your heart, not a decision to be made or affected by anonymous posters on a political blog.

Peace...

:thumbsup:

I was numb on January 30th and actually took a half-sick day because I was in tears to the point of nausea.

I watched the pre-ST LA debate -- again, numb.

I watched Super Tuesday results, hoping for viability (at least in California's mail in) -- and denied.

I know how it feels to back a candidate with your heart and soul and realize that you will not win.

I also realize that the positions of Obama, Edwards and Clinton are VERY similar -- it is all in how we want to see them enacted.

My candidate didn't win (with his fist-shaking populism). Your candidate didn't win (with her back room policy dealing).

Isn't it time that we work together with the candidate who CAN beat the Republican machine in November? The one that the majority of the country chose?

I put aside my pride (and yes, it still stings) to stand behind the man with the means to make it happen. If we unite, our message goes with him. If we don't -- we have no control in the matter.

Your call. Force him centrist, or edge the country left.

ETA - spelling

:mad:

Still, I think both Edwards and Kucinich pushed Obama and Clinton to the left. Prolly wouldn't have heard much from them about "free" trade otherwise.

Get the hell off the internets already. I mean seriously, get off the DU people. I honestly wonder about people who allow their e-feelings to be hurt to the point that they post dribble and threaten nameless people on the internets. I honestly could care less if you find your way to Obama. Yea I said it, there is nothing I can do to accommodate your e-feelings.

DU will become that place where we can't bash our Dems. Neither one of our candidates deserve the verbal carnage going on around here. I can only imagine how painful it is to see your candidate come so close. Senator Clinton is still a great Democrat. Hang tough, busymom.

Hope you find that roadmap to Obama. There is still much to hope for from this election.

for you -> :hug:

she and her supporters have fought really hard.
I've fought side by side with many of her supporters. Just not this time.
I know most of them are great people and good Democrats with their hearts in the right places.
I can grieve that their (and your) dream is ending, even if it wasn't my dream.
Peace.

Because Rachel takes her at her word on this. I think Rachel is right - Hillary has given no indication whatsoever that she intends to concede, not until the final vote at the convention. And come June it's going to get increasingly dirty, ugly. Just as the current Hillary strategy to protest the Dem party as being "undemocratic" before the meeting of bigwigs this weekend has stepped up the uglification of this contest.

Everyone knows that the only hope Hillary has is that a catastrophe happens to Obama. Not this or that one in particular, but any career ending catastrophe would suit her purposes fine. So OK, one either admits that this is as negative as it can possibly get, or one lives in a dreamworld where nothing *actual* matters at all.

Fact is that we can either speak about and discuss reality as we see it today, in this primary and in the GE that's already well begun, or we can pretend some of the pivotal events of our time just aren't happening - all out of some misplaced respect for the delusions of the deluded.

that there's a 1% chance that she'd take it to the convention, and as he was once on the inside, I'd give his insight on this matter some attention.

Good old George



David

reasoning. It's interesting that of all the pundits that I've been following, only her predictions regarding Hillary's upcoming actions (staying in the race, upping the ante) have been correct.

To end on a humorous note - I compare Rachel's record with that of e.g. Bill (bloody) Krystol. Or even KO.

Come next week we will find out.

I have no problem with respecting you and Hillary. We need to work out something, obviously. I just wish that people would stop ravaging Obama because their dream is dying. We need to rally at some point, and going on and on and on about how she would do better in the GE doesn't help. IT DOESN'T MATTER if she'd do better or not, that bird has flown.

I'm certainly not accusing you of that, I'm just saying that those posts, in particular, are the ones that are irritating me as an Obama supporter who is looking forward to a blue blow-out in November.

I have nothing but respect for Clinton supporters who are also team players.

David

I, like many here, was, and still am, a die-hard Kucinich supporter. The Democratic party just isn't going to nominate a candidate who fits my ideal.

What I don't understand is that fools on an internet message board can dissuade you from voting for Obama. I know it's been contentious, and I'm not looking to point any fingers at whose supporters have been worse, but maybe you, and others who think as you do, need to re-think that one.

Vote for whomever you want, anybody can, I don't really care. Just be real about it.

but your opinion of me, has nothing to do with who I will vote for. And No..I will not leave her alone, as long as she lies, cheats, and attempts to steal, while she is waiting hopefully, for the "Catastrophic Event".

Was she being a good Democrat when she said McCain was more prepared to be President than Obama? Was her husband being a good Democrat when he railed against half (or MORE) of the party and called them Republicans last week?

:hug:

Never said i hate her, try not to hate anyone--takes more energy to hate than it does to love. But anyway, she's just not one of my favorite dems right now.

I would really like to see her find a way to exit gracefully.

I'm confidante that you will find your way to Obama, as most sincere dems will.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

As a lifelong Democrat, I really, really, REALLY can feel your pain.

:hug: busymom :hug:

Losing is painful. After the 2004 election, it took me almost six full months to find my center again. I was just so heartbroken and devastated and couldn't understand my own countrymen. I've supported many "losers" through the years, each of them winners in my eyes, of course.

I won't dare rub it in your face, and hope you will find a way to see the same thing so many of us see in Obama. A Winner. The Real Thing. I've invested my heart and hope that you will, when the time is right for you, too.

Hell.... I'll even go for the Unplugged version....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocbRl0_Dwzk

Threatening not to vote for a candidate because of something a few of their supporters (whom the candidate has absolutely no control over)say or do is such a juvenile thing to do.

It's an election, not a death in the family.

As a man and a Feminist from the 60's, that is uncalled for.

You know, the ones without the cartoons on them.

Aren't you better than that? Do you really expect your comment to SHAKE the OP into believing as you do?

Why are you doing this?

:shrug:

Remember this jewel from the 2000 election?



You REALLY want to sound like THEM? I originally joined the Democratic Party in 1970 from the Socialist Worker's Party because I at least saw POTENTIAL. Hasn't been much realization of that from where I stand.

Most of us have forgotten that kind of scorn. I haven't.

I won't tolerate it from my own kids... no way in hell I can find it at all excusable here.

:rofl:

sorry you'll have to find your own way to Obama. What kind of loyal committed Democrat has to have everyone make "nice nice" to get them to vote for the Democratic nominee and their own best interest. x(

It is possible that someone can vote for Obama without ever "finding their way to him". To my mind anyway, "finding your way to Obama" means embracing him, and be willing to fight hard for him. We need as many Clinton supporters to reach that point as quickly as possible.

Read the other self-congratualtory, grave dancing, nose rubbing in the shit garbage on this thread?

They don't want anyone who won't CRAWL to them, crying mea culpa for their wrong thinking for supporting Clinton in the first place.

The more I see, the uglier it gets.

I don't care which side anyone is on regarding any particular issue, I know that there are some rational people reading and participating in DU from all sides. I refuse to take my cues from the worst among us, just because they are loud and have lots of time on their hands to post with.

Sorry to be a downer.

But we can't afford to lose. If Clinton becomes our nominee we will need to work hard to reach angry Obama supporters. If Obama becomes our nominee we will need to work hard to reach angry Clinton supporters. As many as possible, whatever that means. I will not sit on my hands and surrender the White House to John McCain regardless of who the Democrats run or why. People risked their lives to sign the Declaration of Independence. I can risk my message board reputation working for Democratic unity against McCain.

I applaud your noble goals. Don Quixote had them too.

That's what SO many of the Hillaryis44 and her rabid followers are threatening. Are you joining them just to "show us"???

Very mature.

NO ONE has asked you to crawl or cry mea culpa. We just want Hillary to ADMIT she has lost and step aside so that we can focus on the GE.

SHE is the one being the UGLIEST and MOST DIVISIVE. Hillary is at the root of all this drama.

You are regularly one of the reasonable and mature majority of Obama supporters posting. This post is particularly poignant in this thread. People on both sides need to learn how to disagree without being hateful and ignorant.

The OP asked for a little respect and got a whole lot of disrespect. I thank you from the bottom of my Democratic heart. :loveya:

Obama or US alone.

She keeps using bad math, illegal primaries and SD pleadings to try and reverse her loss when it is O-V-E-R.

She needs to STOP pandering to the worst elements in the party and the worst insticts of her supporters and START supporting the Democratic nominee, which IS NOT and NEVER WILL BE her.

I understand and feel for you in your grief, but Hillary needs to move on and stop sowing the seeds of discord.

She's only still still able to limp along because she had the financial means to prop up her failed campaign over and over. She lost and she needs to accept it. SHE is preventing her followers from finding their way to Obama.

Please contact her and ask her give the party and Obama the same respect you are asking for.

the lack of respect she is showing her loyal supporters is sad.

All these games played, rules broken, rules made up, etc should at least console her supporters by showing them that she is not a person who keeps her word, or knows honor. Whatever they imagined her achieving for them in the WH likely would become promises broken, with fake excuses made, rules bent, her inability to admit mistakes or defeat creating another Bush WH. Her supporters are hurting because she won't help them show grace in an exit - she is getting up false hopes for many, creating premises for "winning" that are simply not reality based.

Who does that repeatedly to people? Esp. to people who truly admire her - her misleading of them is probably one of the most calculated and worst things she did.

something the rePukes used in 2000. maybe you can photoshop it, or just us the pic to belittle some fellow Democrats.

Why you people are doing this when you NEED all the help from the other 49% of Democrats you can get is completely beyond ME.

I really cannot understand how people claim they won't vote because someone was mean to them on an internet message board... I just don't get it. :eyes:

I really hope this kind of crap ceases to be tolerated soon.

But the treatment given to Hillary's supporters, and in particular to those that some consider her base (read "ignorant white fucks" and "toothless west virginians") has been so self destructive and so far over the top that it gives every appearance that the aforementioned 'some' don't really want to win. They want the most exclusive possible club.

IMHO, democrats who want to win should smack those fuckers down, even if they do wear the avatar of your preferred candidate.

We're going to be beaten this time. Badly. By McCAIN.

How fucking embarrassing.

I would say "ignorant white fucks" is a fitting description.

Not one that I would use to describe all "white" voters (I am one) but certainly those who admit that they would "never vote for a black man". Which would describe 1 out of 5 of Hillary's voters in PA (by their own admission) and considerably more than that in West Virgina or Kentucky.

Got nothing against rural voters. I've campaigned the entire 3rd Congressional District on a few occasions and there is a whole lotta "rural" between Vancouver and Olympia, as you well know. Same with the rest of the state, aside from the Puget Sound area.

Yet we managed to elect a Chinese American governor here not that long ago. Not that Gary Locke was my favorite governor, but that's beside the point. Rural voters aren't always racist, but when they are, I don't see any problem in saying so. And when they admit it, or their own elected officials admit it (as Ed Rendell did) then that makes it a valid issue.

Because if you have, then yes, I agree, and I'm quite sure that/those poster(s) have been banned. If not, then I think it is a quite inappropriate description of a Democrat who disagrees with someone's choice of a candidate...don't you?

...are Hillbot celebrations of her "massive victories" in the states of West Virginia and Kentucky, which were based, at least in a large part, on racist votes. Hardly something to celebrate. And yes, I have seen numerous posts from concern trolls regarding Obama's alleged "inability" to win the "white working class vote", which basically refers to inbred KKK fucks, because he hasn't had any problem winning working class votes in the rest of the country.

He maintained his popularity largely because of his outreach to rural areas. I have a photo of he and I hanging on my office wall when he visited to he help the local community repurpose the abandoned Satsop Nuke Site into a business park. Brian also helped, but didn't make many appearances except fundraising ones.

Locke's ethnicity was a non-issue as soon as he demonstrated that he was committed to improving the lives of those who live in rural Washington. The same can be true for Obama if he decides to make it a priority.

Because it's the right thing to do.

necessary?

And I hate people who threaten me.

At least not in this case, although it has been usedthat way on this board before so I can see why you'd think that.

I think what she is saying is, if she doesn't feel that a Clinton supporter can be accepted by the Obama community, then she cannot become a part of the community.

At least that's what I got from it but perhaps I'm putting words in her mouth.

are you intend to stop her? Brilliant.

.....at just how badly a good portion of our party is hurting. They will heal, they will come around. IF they are given a chance to. Her words should tell you just how badly a very large portion of our activist community is hurting. Should we not be trying to help people heal, rather then continuing to lash out at them? Instead everyday here they are called names, treated like the enemy and hear their Democratic Candidate called every nasty name in the book.

When did we at DU lose our compassion for one another? When did we lose the civility?

I read her post and feel compassion for her. Just as I would for anyone else. I am not nearly as wrapped up Hilary's candidacy as she is, I have not invested as much, yet still, I can see a DUer is hurting and asking those who are pouring salt on the wounds to stop.

The reaction on this thread makes me very sad and disappointed at this group of progressives called DU.

soul, and dollars into those campaigns have been crushed when they didn't make it. I truly do feel her pain, and I think you know I've been doing my best to heal the rift here on DU. That last line though was simply childish. I am sorry for all the Clinton supporters. Their pain must be even more than any I've felt, as those I supported never got so close as she did (Kucinich and Edwards) so I imagine it's even more difficult for those who support Senator Clinton.

:hug:

I just wanted to point out that the last line was said from an emotional place of hurt.

I know you've been trying to heal things around here. I've seen more and more of the long time posters trying to sooth over tensions. It is very much appreciated. Hopefully some of your good judgment will carry over to the others on this thread who are lacking basic social skills.

quite a bit. I'm sure we've got some disruptors here. It's too bad we take the bait so easily!

:hug: and by the way, :yourock:

:hug:

Sorry you are hurting. It sucks. Like watching a train wreck without any way to stop it. I hate what they have done to the Clintons and haven managed to do it whole convincing people THEY are the victims.

This thread gives a solid list of folks who just aren't worth communicating with anymore and a solid list of those who are.

Some folks are just jerks. You can't make them into decent human beings, Busymom. That was their parents failure.

:hi:

No, but we all know that PRIDE is one of the Seven Deadly Sins, and it "...goeth before a fall."

Every time I find myself thinking " What a unbelievably nasty piece of shit you are" about a poster, I add them to the ignore list. Slowly DU is becoming a better place. Lots of additions on this thread.

I have finally come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if Daffy Duck gets elected in November, and I refuse to look forward to 2012.

"I am Jack's complete lack of interest." I will put up my wind generators, fence my hobby farm, erect large greenhouses, can my food, raise my chickens, and reward my dogs well for eating anyone stupid enough to trespass without my permission.

You made me snarf my coffee............


"reward my dogs well for eating anyone stupid enough to trespass without my permission"

Indeed !

Except that the fences will be electric, so the dogs can afford to be nice, unless they'd like some extra meat.

coming "Depression"???


Is Hillary "making nice"??


NO.


You just want us to stop pointing out Hillary's ridiculous claims because you can't stand hearing the truth.

You all need to focus on getting HILLARY to STOP.

As long as she is bashing the Democratic nominee and trying to split the party, we'll keep calling her, and you, on it.

I am an Obama supporter and I have lost my affection and trust in the Clintons. However, all of us here know the heartache of having your candidate lose. We went through it with Gore and Kerry and more. Personally, I have been just trying not to interact much with Clinton people here for a while, probably since PA's primary. I've just been waiting around for reality to settle in and find no joy or purpose in direct confrontation or berating. What's the point other than cruelty? When the nominee is official we all have to come together as Democrats because at the end of the day that's what it's about.

Good for you to write this post. There should be more respect around here.

Hillary isn't dead, she merely lost the 2008 presidential primary. She is still a force to be reckoned with and an influential political force for the Democratic party (at least for now).

She has also opened up a lot of people's eyes to possibilities. I see many more strong Female candidates in the next twenty years.

i have no pity for her.

its for the loss of the dream of having the first female president. That's is what died here. She's just asking for a little compassion, is this really so hard for people?

The have forgotten this:



emblazoned on the cubical walls of gloating rePukes celebrating the selection of Dimson. Now they treat others in the party the same way.

Sickening, isn't it?

A passion for their respective candidate. And it shows on this forum every day for better and for worse.

I imagine this holds true for Republicans as well, but they aren't members of our Democratic community, so who cares :P

When Obama Supporters tell me to "Quit Whining," that picture is what I see in my mind's eye.

I'm sorry for your sadness and loss.
:hug:

But that is politics.

Sorry for your pain, i'm sure it feels a little like when W got reelected. That deep sunken feeling.

on edit: i've responded to your thread twice. Just being conciliatory.

Hate is a very strong word. I would say that I probably do hate Bush, but definitely not Hillary.

I am sorry you feel so badly, but please take consolation and strength in our fight to defeat the Republicans in November. If we stay united and strong, we will win!

for Senator Clinton to call it a day. The only way she can win the nomination now would destroy the party in the process. Its got to be incredibly frustrating to come so far and to work so hard then wind up with little or nothing to show for it. I understand.

In 1976 I backed Mo Udall 110%. He was a solid progressive and far more qualified than a one-term former governor of Georgia but the ignorant masses couldn't get enough of that stupid grin, the big teeth and the sugary drawl. Carter won New Hampshire and Michigan by a whisker (I think it was 1-2%)and Udall placed second time after time. Within a few months my man was out of the race. The wishy-washy Carter won the nomination and Udall wasn't even MENTIONED for the vice presidency. I planned to vote 3rd party (Gene McCarthy).

VERY slowly, over several months I changed my mind and eventually, sadly voted for Jimmy Carter as the lesser of two evils. Today he's one of my hero's.

I still regret the Udall presidency that never was. He was one of the classiest politicians its been my pleasure to support over the years. But I'm glad I came back to my party and I hope your journey brings you home again.

Peace :hug:

Among other things?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4299354&mesg_id=4299354

:shrug:

it sums up how very down and hurt a good portion of our party is and how badly we need to heal the wounds. In my opinion it was spoken out of emotion and frustration. It didn't ruin the post, it summed up the post. Just try reading it from a different viewpoint.

It's not up to anyone but ourselves to do that. I've done it in every single election I've been involved in, including this one. My choice never wins. x(

Busymom is a very intelligent person, and she has to be aware of the consequences of her actions, whether those are caused from hurt feelings, frustration, spite, or whatever. The actions we take, or don't take, are our own choice, and the responsibility is ours alone. Doing what's right is never dependent on the actions of others.

The implied threat, be it born from frustration or not, is a preemptive attempt to excuse oneself from their own responsibility and place the blame for their wrong decision on the shoulders of others, and it simply doesn't wash with me.

most Hilary supporters will be voting for Hillary. These are for the most part, not new voters. They have been involved in the process for a long time, they have a long term investment in the party. Once the constant mud-slinging is over people will have time to heal and come November the nominee will have the support of a mostly unified party.

I truly believe this.

I said yesterday in a thread about Hillary supporters that I felt the vast majority were great Democrats, and I meant it. I know what it's like to be in their position.

And I, too, think we'll be fine in November. :toast:

This primary has created alot of damage. I have a big list of DU folks I will never take off the ignore list. Both Obama and Hillary supporters, some newbs, some longtimers, even some that seem to have some DU Status. True colors came out, the facades came down and I found myself knowing I would never be able to converse with these people after seeing that ugliness in them.

I am sure some people feel the same about me.

Obama will have my vote.

I may even campaign for him.

But those people and their ugly behavior? I will never associate myself with them again.

This primary has brought out the worst in us, as a group.

(Edit: I probably shouldn't have posted this, but I seriously needed to vent.)

My biggest disappointment on DU during the campaigns is seeing people I respect acting in ways I don't respect. Not so much the attitude as the hypocrisy they suddenly accept, the spinning they'll do to excuse their choice, etc. All campaigns have some who do this, and it saddens me every time. And this applies to campaigns before I even came to DU as well.

On the flip side, I've seen people who didn't really register with me step up and impress me. I hope you don't take offense, but you're an example. I've disagreed with some of the things I've seen from you before the election started, but your actions and behavior during this election has given me a ton of respect for you, and made me see you in totally different light, which also made me reassess those things I did disagree with you on. And I welcome anything that makes me think about myself and my own beliefs.

So it goes both ways. For some it brings out the worst. For others it brings out the best. I haven't seen any ugliness from you at all, even when I disagreed, something I surely can't say about myself. :banghead:

Thank you for that, you actually made me blush. Of course that isn't tough with my Scottish skin tone.

You also just made me stop and think about all the people I really respect now that I never really knew before. So you are right, there is some balance there.

Your first sentence really wraps up how I am feeling. You verbalized it really well.

Thanks for letting me vent that.

I have to say, that you are also someone I really respect and I think you have handled things pretty well.

I feel alot better now....thank you.

, no matter the rhetoric coming out of the campaign. They don't mind losing, really. It just confirms in their mind that they are smarter and better than the rest of the country, and when the "idiots" elect their opponent they get to go around and say "I told you so! America would never elect a ____________. (fill in the blank and enjoy another 8 years of puke rule)

The neener neener... Why can't I do it because Johnny did it too... I won't stop until Johnny stops, bullshit comments you are getting.

This is the third grade, I swear.

I didn't hit her! I was just standing her swinging my fist around and she ran into me!

Thick as a fucking brick, I swear.

Thank GAWD Obama has moved onto the REAL fight against the REAL enemy... John McCain! It took him long enough... and apparently it's taking "us" a lot longer.

At some point we all have to grow the fuck up, control ourselves, and become responsible for our own actions. Blaming another for our actions is not an excuse for anyone over the age of seven.

own actions. Blaming another for our actions is not an excuse for anyone over the age of seven."


This is all Hillary needs to do for the madness to end.

Why can't DUers be responsible for their own actions?

spending as much time asking their candidate to stop creating drama. Why aren't they asking Hillary to be respectful?

It doesn't! Not in the least.

What matters is fighting John McCain. Obama, in his wisdom, understands this perfectly well, and he has moved on to the REAL fight with the REAL enemy! John McCain!

We should all follow Obama's lead and get on with what really matters, pummeling McCain instead of each other. It's the right thing to do, and Obama clearly understands this. It would be horrifically embarrassing to him if he understood what was going on between his supporters and Clinton's... and it would be even more embarrassing for him, and for us all, if he felt the need to tell his people to back off... which is what some Obama supporters here are suggesting Hillary do. Sad, sad, sad. So much energy is being wasted that could be used for the good of all.

What a fucking stupid and useless waste.

She showed our men and women no respect whatsoever. It was about politics and looking like Bush. We respected her by trusting her to do the right thing. And she showed her respect for us by voting with Bush, a man she knew was bankrupt of the moral responsibility to lead this nation. Understand why people are angry at her actions and please spare us.

1. :hug:

2. Just avoid GD-p for a while, or at least until things work themselves out. There's pooh flying from both sides, and where you're hurting that the clinton's might be disparaged here, Obama supporters feel quite the same in that regard.

that will be no one's choice but your own. But I do hope you start to feel better. :toast:

After the second week in June.

busymom, I do agree that Hillary should be left alone at this point - with the assumption she will exit and her campaign will die in peace shortly after our last primaries next week.

But if she chooses to carry this morass all the way to the convention, the anger and frustration that has saddened you so much will be nothing compared to the rage that will follow. Literally, it would hurt our chances in the GE - and world peace is at stake. That is a true measure of the difference between an Obama presidency and a McCain presidency.

After June 10th or so if she is still refusing to exit, it will be uglier than anything we have seen to date.

We need you this fall; Obama needs Hillary supporters this fall. But what would happen if it gets worse....?

of 2000. She needs to be fought as vigorously as Bush Jr was fought.

The things I say against Hillary, her campaign and some of her supporters aren't meant to refer to her supporters who are not involved in the attempted theft of the Democratic primary. That's why I try to always indicate "some" of her supporters.

I have two friends (women, >60yrs of age) who are Hillary supporters. We don't discuss politics anymore AT ALL, so I don't know if they are involved in the campaign at all anymore, but I know them from before as women of integrity.

So not all Hillary supporters would be involved in the attempted theft of the primary, but obviously some are.

Until she quits, I will not stop speaking out against her.

The future of the country is more important than your feelings.

Nice.

I was with you until the last sentence. I HAVE HAD IT WITH THREATS FROM YOU PEOPLE. Go ahead and vote McCain and live with the consequences, I no longer give a damn. I'm not the one who'll be setting my gender's struggles back 40 years.

"If the heat's too hot, get out of the kitchen." -HST

and look forward to working with you to defeat the Republicans in November.

Thanks for sharing your feelings with us. I will not rub anything in your face, nor in any other Clinton supporter's face. I do look forward to winning the White House this fall. We all need to pull together to make that happen. I'm sure that's the farthest thing from your mind right now, but when you've had time to recover from this devastating disappointment, we can sure use your help.

FWIW, my path was Kucinich --> Edwards --> Obama. But I was fully prepared to work my butt off to get Clinton elected if she won the Dem nomination.

:hi:

Clinton lost me when she voted for the IWR. I personally loved her when clinton was president. I will never support her based on (her failure to make amends for ) IWR (and for her vote on kyl-lieberman)

your values and beliefs are more important than that.

and tons of Dean supporters worked their butts off for Kerry despite a ton of nastiness sent Dean's way (though not from Kerry himself I don't think).

i should add that if Hillary got the nomination, i would vote for her, despite extreme disappointment with her. no Hillary supporter or weird talking points are going to stop me from voting for a Democrat in the fall --nothing.

Sorry for your candidate's loss. That's always a painful experience, one that most of us have gone through in the past - although clearly people are far more wedded to these two candidates then they were to others in the past. Hope to see you work through this and side Obama as the GE gets going.

See? We wuv, wuv, wuv you anyway.

Saved you the BIGGEST PIECE!

:hug: