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In a perverse kind of way, this crap has actually galvanized my support for Obama.

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Bleacher Creature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:21 PM
Original message
In a perverse kind of way, this crap has actually galvanized my support for Obama.
I was someone who was really torn throughout the campaign. While I was always inspired by Obama, I was always a bit worried that he wasn't battle tested and ready to run. Seeing the way he's handled himself throughout this campaign, and defending him against these pure sleezeball tactics from Clinton and McCain, I'm actually really psyched to work my ass off for him for the next five months.

So in a way, thanks Hillary. You pushed me so far into Obama's camp that I couldn't be readier for the next phase of this campaign.
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't share your disdain for Clinton . . .
But I do agree that Obama has exceeded (my) expectations by handling himself with such grace and grit. I have much greater confidence he'll run a strong campaign (and presumably an effective presidency).
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Bleacher Creature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Honestly, it's not disdain.
Edited on Thu May-29-08 08:38 PM by abernste
I've actually admired her for a long time. I'm disappointed with some of the stuff she's done, and I'm pissed because she could put an end to this now and won't.

That said, I do have serious disdain for a number of her proxies. I'm literally counting the seconds to not having to see Lanny Davis, Terry McAuliffe or Geraldine Ferraro on t.v. anymore.
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. McAuliffe in particular gives me hives, even from 10,000 miles away . . .
Where I am now.

And I think "disappointed" is my predominant emotion. Not so much about her quitting -- I really don't think she can until the numbers reach dead certaintly (as opposed to "mathematical impossibility"), but things like the gas tax holiday that she *has* to know are bad policy, but which she pandered out anyway. For her to do such things means her political judgement can be overtaken by political expediency, and we just can't stand any more of that sort of governing.

Obama's no saint, or even a genius, but he's likely to come out of this with his credibility intact. Clinton can't say the same.
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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. I am kind of the same ...
I liked him, but I never imagined he was what he has been ...

I honestly feel actual PRIDE in how he handles himself ... Relentlessly he goes to the high road, he stays so darn positive ... And, I just get the feeling he is playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers ...
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. You are not seeing the reality of what happened
Obama has played dirty from the beginning. Indeed when he first used Bhutto's death to attack Clinton (they were friends) I thought that was awful and dirty. But, when he shouted "Racism!" from the rooftops of SC, I knew I could never support him.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Jesse Jackson won there in 84 and 88, ya know
So Obama's win really wasn't that big of a deal.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I beg to differ.
From the beginning, Obama has refused to engage Clinton on that level...even when completely justified.


Frankly, that's why he's going to win the nomination. Clinton was (to use a Clinton supporter phrase) "annointed" from the beginning of the race. She was actually doing better before she began to campaign.

I'm not going to lay a multitude of mortal sins at her feet...I'm just going to state the truth. Clinton's style of campaigning is what lost her this election.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. No. I remember when it started. She was attacking McCain and he started attacking her
The re-writing of history is always amazing to me, after all it was only a few short months ago. I remember it. The facts are there for all to see, and yet still many Obama supporters talk about how he has been a "different kind of candidate." Oh well, that is what Bush did too, and lots of people believed him.

But, you really have to have your head in the sand not to see the facts in front of your face!
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Would you care to cite the event you "remember"?
Your "proof" is a little vague...
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Sure here is a timeline for you to review
http://attacktimeline.com/

It is complete with sources. I have a memory of the time it started, but some of you seem to need a memory boost.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Great! Gimme a date for the episode you "remember".
I'll respond as best I can.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. I don't have a date. But I remember he started calling her a liar.
Instead of talking about the issues, he started personal attacks on her character. He was playing on the ugly re-definitions that the republicans did to Clinton. She had been talking about Bush and the republican candidates, and Obama started in on her.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. You DO realize that's impossible to address...you're not giving me any specifics.
I'm not doubting the sincerity of your recollection, I'm just finding it difficult to respond to your perception of an event with no time or content references.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Well, I frankly don't give a crap if you think I am a liar or not.
I remember it well, because it was a turning point in the campaign. Obama started saying she was a liar, changing her positions from one day to the next, etc. And then the Bhutto thing happened, when he accused Clinton of having a hand in causing her death.

But, I do remember it well.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I specifically stated that I didn't think you were lying.
Please don't attribute intentions to me that I don't have.


That said, if you'll give me a specific event, I'll be happy to respond.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I am sorry. I misread your post.
Edited on Thu May-29-08 09:25 PM by Evergreen Emerald
I thought you said, "I am doubting the..."

My bad.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. No worries...things are contentious here right now.
My issue is that I'd like to exchange interpretations, but all I have to go on is your perception of an event. I believe that you do feel that Obama did what you claim, but I don't view Obama the same way you do...so, without some specificity as to a date or the content of the statements, I can't address it.


If you do come up with something specific, feel free to PM me. I'm not interested in being "right" here...I'd honestly like to discuss this.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Please cite your history for those of us who need help remembering?
Educate me.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Nobody in the Obama campaign or the media created my reaction to Bill's remarks in SC.
I was appalled, not least because 6 months previously I'd been delighted to see him take down that obnoxious interviewer on TV. When I saw him trying to frame Obama as the new Jesse Jackson I drew my own conclusions about it, thanks very much. Your whole narrative, and that of your fellow travelers, seems to depend on the idea that his campaign took a chance remark and built it up as this big thing. You seem blind to the possibility that many people could have felt offended by it in their own right without any input from the campaign.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. You've done alot to show us just how DESPERATELY the Repubs fear Obama, EE.
Edited on Thu May-29-08 09:01 PM by dicksteele
nm
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. I really wanted John's populist fist shaking
but have come to admire, and support 100% Obama due to how he handled his campaign.

Now, he just needs to put John in the AG seat to kick major corrupt ass.
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Elspeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. If you think Obama's campaign doesn't have veteran campaigners playing just as sleezy
you're wrong.

The person who is really battle-tested is Clinton--and her husband. When Obama has the entire nation talking about his penis for 4 years, then come back and talk to me about battle-tested.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Charles Manson for President!!!!
When Clinton has the entire nation talking about her running a cult that slaughtered a pregnant woman, then come back to me and talk about battle-tested.
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Bensthename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. And you think they wont talk about that if she were the nominee?
Obama people have been nice. The rePubes would absolutely love to run against Billary. They have been building a case for the past 10 years getting ready for her to run. We would see all Bill and Hill scandals over the last 35 years rolled out over the next 5 months..
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. You don't get male culture.
Despite the superficial expressions of outrage and the tut-tutting, having the entire nation talk about one's penis pretty much guarantees lifetime sexual bragging rights. Unfortuantely, that doesn't confer any special status on Hillary.

Kindly note that I've stayed away from any discussion of his scandals. I just thought it worth a passing observation.
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Erin Elizabeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Um, I'm not going to be talking about his penis.
I don't want to talk about anyone's penis.





(Except maybe Ewan McGregor's.)
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. no need to talk about it
we can just watch The Pillow Book and drool instead.
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Erin Elizabeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Droooool.
(I know.)

:drool:
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. Does he have blatant trolls spamming Repub discussion boards? That would be sad and lame, eh?
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genna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. Did you really say penis talking for 4 years?
Seriously?

:o

If BJs are worth talking about...I guess...

It is way too HOT a topic to discuss in an objective hands/mouth off kind of way...don't you think?
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. He has a chance to be a transcendant leader
He channels JFK really well, and, instead of taking over a healthy, happy country from a popular, successful war hero, he'll be inheriting a broken, dispirited, crippled empire from a mean, stupid, thoroughly detested criminal. One of my biggest reasons for supporting him is that this moment in history seems tailor-made for an enormous (wo)man to grab it and do great things with it, and Obama seems to have the tools to be that person - much more so than HRC.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. I like your silver lining endorsement.
:thumbsup:
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
17. Hillary also pushed me into the Obama camp.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
25. Same here. I was torn between the big 3. Then Edwards dropped. Then Clinton race-baited...
Made my choice easy.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
35. That's very similar to the way I think and feel.
I didn't know that I would grow to actually RESENT both Clintons ... but I have. :thumbsdown:

Yes, I'm going to volunteer and pound the pavement ... yeah, work my ass off for Obama. :-)

Thanks for putting this into words. :hi:
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KaptBunnyPants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
36. He's a good candidate. This has the potential to be a very good election.
His counter attack team is second to none, and he does have charisma. The only question is how bad is the rift in the party caused by the extended primary.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
37. Me too! I learned a lot ...
finding information to counter claims of all kinds of stuff. I would never have known half the stuff I do about him, if he weren't attacked so much.
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