Was the DNC right in punishing Florida?

According to a Florida congresswoman, Florida was forced to vote to change the primary date by the Republicans. She claims the Republican legislature deliberately changed the primary date in a bill that also guaranteed voter hand counts in case of a narrow election. Which the Dems desperately wanted. If the Dems had voted against the date change they would also have lost the hand count. If this is the case they clearly made the right choice under duress. So why were they punished? .

But not unexpected.

First, the Democrats were not forced to change the date, they were just as happy as the Republicans to move the date up. The Florida congresswoman is flat out lying.

Secondly, it does not matter if the primary date was moved up. The FDP has full authority to draft its delegate selection plan. With the state run primary in non compliance, the party should have created an alternate selection method. They could have done a party run primary, they could have done a caucus, there were other options. This they were forced to do it argument is completely and utterly bogus.

I have to say I was surprised at the claim that the Republicans could determine the date of a Dem Primary, and force the Dems to accept it. Even in Florida. I don't know the Congresswoman's name, but she was the rather radical one with the long blonde hair.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

The counter to my argument about alternate methods is that a caucus is less "democratic" than a primary. Even if I accept that argument on its own, it does not mean an non binding primary is more "democratic" than a caucus. Of course a party run primary, like what New Mexico held, would be just as "democratic" as a state run primary, and the only argument against it would be cost. But If Florida had begun working towards a party run primary in light of the fact that the state run primary was not going to count, I am sure the national party and others would have been happy to help with the costs.

They are culpable.

:)

along. It's hard to believe after the terrible crisis in FL in 2000, that here we are punishing voters.

agreed on the rules long before the Primary dates were set. NOW, because the primaries didn't work out the way everyone thought they would, Fl & Mi are having "buyers remorse"! I have no idea if Rep. Wasserman-Schultz is telling the truth or not. I do seem to recall some discussion about hand counting being part of the discussion though.

If these two States are not somehow punished, in 4 years we'll be having a fight over which State is going to set their primary in Nov or Dec. of the year before the election!!!! IMO, the primary season is already way too long! It costs the candidates a large fortune, and doesn't do much more than give many opportunities to the talking heads to babble about all kind of immaterial things. If the whole process were shorter...maybe 3 months total...just maybe the IMPORTANT ISSUES would get hashed out!

I live in Florida and what really burns me is that made us lose ALL, not just some of our delegates.

The R C took half of the delegates away from their candidates, and they look very reasonable compared to the DNC.

Why the DNC brought this added grief upon themselves only to probably back down tomorrow is beyond my comprehension.

obey the rules (laws) you make the punishment strong enough that they won't do it. I think the Fla. pols decided they were going to risk the punishment and defy the DNC...all the while assuming that the public will NEVER let the DNC carry out the threat! I guess that's why I still believe there must be some penalty! It's like the school yard bully who wins in the end and turns around and says HA HA!

By your post, the FL pols were right. The public will not let the DNC ruling stand. My guess is that the punishment will be lessened to what was specified (meaning spellled out, as opposed to mandated) in the rules.

That ruling (to take ALL the delegates) has given the DNC a bleeding wound here for nearly a year.

(AP) The Republican Party announced Thursday that it will punish five states for scheduling early nominating contests.

New Hampshire, Florida, South Carolina, Michigan and Wyoming will lose half of their delegates to the national convention, said Mike Duncan, chairman of the Republican National Committee.

RNC rules require the punishment for states that hold their nominating contests earlier than Feb. 5. Iowa, which plans to hold Republican caucuses on Jan. 3, would not be penalized because, technically, the caucuses are not binding on convention delegates. Nevada, which plans to hold its caucuses on Jan. 19, would not be penalized for the same reason.

The RNC voted 121-9 Thursday to impose the penalties. Duncan, who has final say over the matter, said he will abide by the vote."


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/08/politics/main3475259.shtml?source=related_story


Where's the faux outrage over these "disenfranchised voters"???

A collective punishment on the voters for a dispute the DNC had with the state party. Dumb, dumb, dumb move on the DNC's part to strip all of Florida's delegates and effectively render Florida's votes worthless.

Thankfully, I have a gut feeling the DNC will reverse its error tommorow in seating at least a 50% delegation, but why they dragged this thing out this long, I have no idea.

check Madfloridian's journal for good details.

Never mind.

With the way the states are leapfrogging each other, the start of the campaign season would keep getting bumped up to the point where the campaigning would never end. Irregardless of how it happened, the DNC had to enforce its rules for that reason.

That is, very probably, not even hyperbolic.

Duh, why you think the Rethugs WANTED you to change the date of your primary? They knew perfectly well how the DNC would react--and you should have, too!

:headbang:
rocknation

And lost half of their delegates and supers (I believe that was specified as the minimum punishment), along with the others that violated the rules.

Mocking the DNC in the Florida legislature. If you watch that video, you'll clearly see that the Florida Dems are being disingenuous when they say that they were forced to do it.

The Florida Democratic party leaders are culpable. They can wail now about the GOP making them, but they actively fought to have an earlier primary. They didn't get forced to do this. They willingly did it. They wanted the earlier primary, and supported it.

The DNC told the state party officials in each state how the DNC would act if the states ignored the DNC, and the Dems of Florida rebelled anyway. Now they have to take their medicine. Now they have to get the outcome that their misconduct created.

It is just, it is equitable, and it is a fair application of the DNC's rules.

As if you repeat it enough, it won't be any less offensive.

The republican party took 1/2 of their delegates away as well.

That is what upsets me and people I hear talking about it.

As a matter of discipline I believe they were right to punish Florida. The primary calendar is critical in maintaining the fairness of the primaries. A front-loaded primary is biased in favor of well-funded candidates like Obama and Hillary.

But as an Obama supporter I wish they would just restore the delegates as is so that when Obama wins the nomination anyway, the Hillary supporters can't question his legitimacy or cry foul.

As far as Florida dems voting for the bill as part of bundled legistlation, this is exactly why I am not in favour of bundled legislation and legislative bargaining.

By my reckoning Florida and Michigan have 11 members each that are DNC members.

Does anyone believe that if there was a question about the rules they wouldn't listen to states that are likely to be vital for the nominee?

In addition, the DNC is not Howard Dean. It is the members from each state that determine the direction the party takes based on their vote.

/rant

Sorry, I'm still sore from 2000.

It is Howard Dean's job to set and enforce rules, rules that Ms. Flick signed on to before she decided rules are for punks and nobody is the boss of her.

The people of Florida need to do their jobs and fire the Repukes and Dems, who pulled this crap on the rest of the country, at the ballot box in November.

I am so sick and tired of Florida being a fuck-up state almost every time there is some kind of election.

The people of FL are ultimately responsible because they vote for the jerks who pull the fuck-ups. When they get some "spine" and start voting against them and thus start to fire them, I might be able to generate some sympathy.

Meanwhile, I hear the word "Florida" and it just regenerates my anger at the people of Florida ('cept for madfl) for their complete and utter failures when in the voting booth.