I'm here to tell you..if the DNC powers give Hillary the nom, I am quitting the Dem party

no doubt about it. I will become an independent and support green, Libertarian or other parties...but what I will NOT due is abide any skullduggery by the Howard Dean version of the Democratic Party.

I think I am not alone in this feeling and commitment. After donating and working so hard and voting for Obama...if the people wish it and the delegates are his but it is snatched from him...I WILL BE DONE with this party.

Relax...

The math just isn't there for Hillary, and no amount of drama is going to change it.

All this threat stuff needs to stop. How about just sitting back and waiting until events play out?

I don't see why anybody is letting themselves get spooked by the Clintons anymore. She's done. Obama has already Mohammed Ali'd her ass. And if she wants to keep popping up in his face, he'll just Mohammed Ali her again.

We ought to have some confidence in Obama, look at how well he's done so far.

Don't worry, be happy. :D

Peace,
sw

it tells me that the federal government doesn't give one red cent about the will of the people. Then, I think it's time for our states to determine our future and IF it's with the federal government.

From WP:

I've spent the past several months talking to as many super-delegates as any reporter in America, I'd guess, since I cover on a day-to-day basis about 280 of them here on Capitol Hill.

I hate saying this, because all the Clinton people are going to flip out and say, You're biased, you're biased, you're biased. So go ahead and flip out if you want, but the simple basic truth is that the super-delegates stopped paying attention to the Clinton-Obama race about a couple days after the Indiana and North Carolina primaries.

They've stopped paying attention to the primary, and instead they're focused on an Obama-McCain matchup in November. That's the basic, simple, definitive reality that has happened in this race. The "undecided" super-delegates at this moment are not going to "decide" any time soon, because to them the race is over, they're just waiting for Clinton to drop out.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/05/26/DI2008052601813.html

That's what this fight is all about. The Howard Dean version taking the reins away from the Clinton DLC version.

of the Democratic Party.

that's what I'm doing. It might blow if required....but till then.

I'm sure there are thousands upon thousands of Democrats both very recent and long timers who will feel and do the same.

You can question a lot of things here on DU, but you are not allowed to be disloyal to the party. Whoever the party selects WILL be supported here.

Hillary is a shill for the rightwingnuts.

I don't feel you're a Democrat. Tombstone is too good for you.



typo

Blah blah blah... the only reason I registered as a Democrat in the first place was so that I could vote for Obama in the primary (in '04 I wrote in Kerry in the Green primary...).
In '00 I voted for Nader, because Gore's wife had been foolish enough to go after the punk rock bands that were "threatening" the youth of the day once upon a time with the power of Congress. Some of us punk rockers held a grudge, and managed to keep enough active brain cells together to remember a name (and how could any fan of Death Angel not remember a name like Gore, not to imply that Death Angel is punk... but anyway).

In '92 I voted for Cthulu. In '96 I voted for Zappa, despite the slight impediment of his being dead at the time.
The party can do as the party likes... but some new members of the party aren't particularly intimidated at the idea of being outside the party.
As I recall, the "founding fathers" decried the rise of party politics. The fuck with assholes like Washington though, the party is more important than the candidate... right?

Blah blah blah... what does it matter though? I live in California... and whoever wins the nomination will win California.

All I want to say is that, despite bravado to the contrary... the "door" that is spoken of really isn't heavy enough to hurt, even if it hits you in the ass on the way out. Of course... that's the real question, isn't it? Do the democrats want to invite in the lunatic left wing, of which I proudly claim I pretty much qualify... or does the party want to move back to the center/past the center to the "near right" to try to get the voters that Clinton has been courting since '03?
I guess that's what's gonna be decided. If the party as a whole wants to invite back the fuck out some of us that've been drawn into the party by Obama... so be it.
blah blah blah... I'll now patiently wait and see if I'll have the opportunity to vote for Obama... or if I'll be left to write in Kerry... or maybe write in my mom... despite the fact that she too is dead...

:popcorn:

Let's see...

You've got the scummy Bob Barr for the Libertarians.

The downright insane Cynthia McKinney for the Greens (likely).

Ralph Nader running for his ego.

And Alan Keyes.

Shit, these asshats are worse than Hillary!

~PEACE~

it just feels like even Howard Dean has had to take a lot of crap from the traditional DLC aspect of the party.

I am hoping Obama, Gore, and Dean can all stand together before November and get this thing DONE.

have been crude and highly problematic people. I'll even hold my nose and vote for you candidate.

But then, I'm a Democrat.

But I will never vote for another Democrat as long as I live if she is on the ballot after all the crap she has pulled.

However this is something I and others don't have to worry about doing since it strongly looks like the DNC WONT be giving her the nod.

Now the dems have to worry about winning the GE without the rabid Clinton supporters.

since never. And your anticipatory whining is pathetic.

the whole point is me expressing my terrible disappointment in the process, in the candidate, and the so-called leadership of the party.

I am seeing HINTS that they are all closing ranks around Obama and will do what it takes to ensure the candidate who won the most delegates gets in.

But I am not able to sit here and say certain things "won't happen" because I have been too horribly suprised and disappointed too many times before.

.

The independents are going to grow in numbers either way.

But most is just upset talking. The sore winners will gloat while the wiser ones will try and re-build. The sore losers will be angry and endure deep disappointment. To think what could have been but never will is hard.

Things will settle down. But perhaps never be the same again.

If the dems lose in November then the blood and blame brigade will be out in force. Because how any dem could lose in this season is hard to imagine. Unless the party picks a "wrong" candidate whose electoral vulnerabilities (perceived and real, known and yet unknown)lead to a thrown away opportunity. I don't think that will happen. But it might.

:7 - which won't happen.

Anyway, I felt like that many months ago. Some really smart DU'er just asked if I'd rather have a republican than Hillary. I wanted to say yes, I'll throw myself on the floor and wail until you give me a better candidate, but in reality I would take Hillary over McCain. She is my very last choice (Hillary supporters, stop reading here because I'm not trying to hurt or offend you)








and the bottom of the barrel as far as those who were in the race, but I'll take the worst dem over McCain, except a Lieberman. (I know some people think Hillary is just a Lieberman in a dress, but I don't.)

It has taken us eight years of hell to realize just what a government unchecked can do and there is no way I'll take more of the same if I have a choice. It may be a repulsive thought to have to vote for someone you don't like but it really is better than McCain. We have to get the powers reversed. Government has no business messing with the constitution and McCain won't fix anything. He'll try to "bribe" Americans with lower taxes instead of getting us together and letting us know that we are in dire straits financially and the amount of debt we carry as a result of the bush years is staggering. We need to hang on to our boot straps and face the consequences of ALLOWING this to happen.

I could go on about the war and the needless deaths of both American Soldiers and innocent Iraqi's, or the raping of our constitutional rights but you get the picture.

Besides I don't think Senator Clinton will be the President, I do think she'll end up as the Vice President though.

At least the OP knows Obama will lose.

You are such a ball of sunshine. (Heh) Good morning!

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

You KNOW you love this place and I don't think I'm going anywhere. :shrug: :7

I will still vote for the Democratic nominee. If she gets the nom, it may or may not have an illegitimate appearance, but it will have occured by the will of the superdelegates, who are free to vote as they will, and/or the seating of delegations from Florida and Michigan, which would happen based on a process in place within the DNC. If you push for the rules being followed, you need to accept ALL the rules in place.

Do I think that will happen? Likely not. At this late date, unless something catastrophic happens, I don't foresee superdelegates suddenly breaking the other way. As for Florida and Michigan, I suspect they will have delegates seated at the convention, but not in a way that's going to be the game-changer that Clinton needs to take the nomination.

it will be perceived as a back room deal among racists. Many will feel she STOLE it using back handed tactics, including appeals to racism.

If Hillary steals the nomination say hello to PRESIDENT JOHN MCCAIN. It's as simple as that. Why people cannot see that I do not understand.

Many people already feel disenfranchised by the Democrats and think they speak to certain groups only once every four years just to get elected, only to toss them to the curb once the election is over. 2008 could spell the end of some long held Democratic alliances. If Hillary steals the nomination, there just will not be enough time between now and November for her and her spin meisters to rebuild destroyed bridges.

serious third party runs.

I emphasize the word, "serious," though.

to whence it goes.

:hi:

Go right ahead - and thanks for nothing from the rest of the real Democratic party.

Does "Eat shit and die" mean anything. That would be my attitude.

Obama fans not supporting the party if he doesn't get the nomination, and what terrible, horrible democrats they are?

I doubt it.

You may as well worry about asteroids hitting the Earth.

If the Democratic is picked by a method other than voting and within the agreed upon rules, it will be a bad, bad day.

If the DRC nods at Hillary (the Congolese need to keep their skulduggery out of our primary!) I'm gonna wait till November and then sit down in front of my polling place with a 20 dollar can of gasoline and burn myself in protest and then I'm going to write an ANGRY letter of resignation from DU telling everyone just what they did to wrong me so...

but didn't comment.

step 1. write angry letter
step 2. protest at DU
step 3. then and ONLY then light yourself on fire

and who has received more votes

the popular votes are not the measure. It has been, since before any candidate entered the race, the delegates. To even attempt to include the 11 caucus states(8 Obama, 3 Clinton)in the popular vote count is deceptive. The popular vote does not include the states who, by law don't release voting #'s and there is no legal way to gage those votes;also those same states did follow the DNC/RBC and kept their elections in compliance with our parties rules. Each state has a right to conduct its own elections how they see fit. Popular vote doesn't even count in the General Election; In that election it is the electoral votes. the whole reason our system is set up this way is to guarantee all state have a say not just he overly populated large states. Smaller states must have a say as well. So no Clinton does not have the popular vote. Our party says Delegates count Period. If you don't Like the rules change them; just do it while there is no election taking place.

If you count all the votes, Obama is winning. But since you may also know that it's delegates that are how the nominee is selected, this is a moot point anyway.

I'm very afraid that the DNC will pull something to screw over Obama. I'm waiting for it.

Write in Al Gore! He's a democrat. write Al Gore on you mail. write Al Gore on the Memos of your checks. Anywhere you can WRITE IN AL GORE. Remember there are 5 months till election day alot can happen between now and then. I am sure the Repukes are loading their howizters.

Of course, I will vote for the Democratic candidate against McCain even if the committee chooses Minnie Mouse for their candidate. But, no, I will not ever consider myself part of the party again. No money. No volunteering. No participating. In fact, I think that I would give up on interest in the political process in general. I certainly haven't seen much of it working positively for the last few years.
I will consider myself to be disenfranchised.

but ill be thinking of alternatives as well if by some chance they do.

I know you've all seen people lash out at various times.....but this is really the last straw for me. I became a member of the Democratic Party in 1999. I've voted faithfully with them and been disappointed many times now.

If we finally are at the doorstep of an era where perhaps one of the most unifying figures in a generation is about to run in the general election but that door is slammed shut, I'm out. I just cannot watch the status quo continue to steamroll the hearts of those who want and will work for better.

:hi:

Hillary Supporter. I've been watching you throw your slop around. Fortunately, you have absolutely no power and influence in the party and this post doesn't have anything to do with you.

Just go. We need to rid our party of weak ass crybabies anyway. :hi:

never.

How silly of me! Totally forgot that in your wee little world reality revolves around only what you allow yourself to see and that anything outside the walls of your wee little closed mind just simply doesn't exist! God how silly I feel now!

Fool.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Be it grassroots efforts, marches, meetings, giving information regarding a lot of new unvetted Clinton scandals to the media, letters to the editor and anything else, I (and I would assume millions like me) would make sure to destroy the Clinton legacy into ashes so that she has to drop out in shame.

It won't happen where the DNC gives the nomination to the Clintons, who at this point, would have to lie and cheat to win. But if any of the Hillbot hacks that want to try to cheat to get her in as the nominee get their way, there will be HELL to pay.

you'd post shit on the internet, just like you do now.

As for the Clintons, you are witnessing clearly how they are a cancer to the Democratic Party. They both are cheaters.

no matter how often you guys lie about it.

I can find plenty of reports of Obama's team playing dirty tricks, but I don't devote my life to destroying democrats, like many here do.

Turn it around as a Hillary supporter and the responses will be hateful and the poster would
likely be banned.

The double standard is alive and well.

with no way to catch up and he was still out there attacking Hillary, I can tell you unequivocally I would not posting in support of him.

But that is not the current situation. We have some Arkansas country rubes who stole items from the White House on the way out acting as classy as they always have.

talking point!

dishes and things they must have thought were rightfully theirs..that was truth.

from when Bush took office. Defacing computers, wires cut, items stolen.

Except it was completely and shamelessly invented by the GOP operatives to mug the Democrats and Bill Clinton on the way out the door. If that was what you are referencing, then sorry, but you are a douchebag. I hope you meant something else.


That's the law. Reference false GOP smear as true, then you = douchebag.

that was blown out of proportion by the GOP, but nonetheless shows what classy folks the Clintons can be.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=121856&page=2

we will be fine

as others have noted, it's not going to happen.

Take your ball and go home. Have a nice life.

Obama will be our nominee next week - even if Hillary's campaign tries to rewrite history. Nothing will change who our nominee will be.

Not the solution. Just like Hillarys dodo heads. Your desision does nothing except make sure the repiggies win. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face. It childish and frankly selfish. I hope you dont have to make this choice but if you do cooler heads prevail.

everything I ever stood for. I am not kidding. I will link to PDF's of my letters withdrawing from the party. I will link to my donations to 3rd party candidates, etc.

The Democratic Party leadership needs to determine right here and right now if they are for good or for evil.

There would need to be a huge showing of unity behind Clinton by the remaining supers. There is no reason to believe that will happen.

liked you and can feel your pain.....

Obama has won the nomination fair and square, so there's no reason for any Democrat not to vote for him in November. Not voting for him out of bitterness over Hillary amounts to undermining the party.

But if the nomination, which is rightly Obama's, were to be stolen from him, then it would be completely reasonable for us Obama supporters to not vote for Zellary, because it wouldn't be fair, plain and simple.

It would render everything good and noble about the Democratic Party meaningless, right down to its name. And as I've said before, while I feel it's important to vote for the Democratic nominee, I feel it is even more important to vote for the democratic nominee.

nt

If she steals the nom I'll register as an independent.