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Did you know that the U.S. military distributes the NEW TESTAMENT in the Middle East??

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 11:06 AM
Original message
Did you know that the U.S. military distributes the NEW TESTAMENT in the Middle East??
According to Jon Stewart on a recent Daily Show episode with Matt Taibbi and Naomi Klein, evangelical military officers and troops actively proselytize in the Middle East by distributing New Testaments and keeping flyers about Christianity in offices throughout the region.

I found this damned disturbing ~ how are Muslims to see us as anything but crusaders and enemies if we're allowing this to happen?

Haven't been able to find the video yet.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes this has been discussed here all week
Edited on Sun May-10-09 11:09 AM by donheld
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Really?? Guess I've been multi-tasking too much. Has the president...
..weighed in on it??
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Not to my knowledge
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Hmm, he's gotta know.
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. Winning hearts & minds...one Chick tract at a time
This zealotry has no place in the armed forces, and the flag officers responsible for inflicting this talibornagain nonsense on subjugated nations need to be purged outright!
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. It's crazy! I was horrified and wonder why Obama hasn't put an end to it...
...unless he has and Stewart doesn't know that.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. Not really. But I knew some military officers were pushing Bible study among troops.
I didn't realize they were distributing the New Testament to Muslims, confirming their worst stereotypes of the US occupation, after Bush talked about his Crusade.

I have been glad to see President Obama's attempts to return to more ecumenical approaches to our country's religiosity and hope they will extend to the military. They need to curb the evangelism. Official or unofficial. There are chaplains and other spiritual counselors for soldiers in need to consult.

We used to be proud of our separation of church and state that protects religious liberty by not allowing a particular faith to dominate our government. And protects those who choose not to be religious.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Stewart said that there was a large number of evangelicals who have managed...
...to infiltrate the military in a big way ~ that is scary stuff imo. "Crusade" is the word for it alright ~ I hope President Obama replaces those officers (one is actually a General) asap!
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Let us not forget General Boykin

He has gained notoriety for his Christian Fundamentalist views over the last few years and some public remarks. Boykin is a born-again Christian, who has cast the "War on Terror" in Biblical terms. A Pentagon investigation concluded in 2004 that he had violated regulations by failing to explain these remarks were not made in an official capacity.

Boykin achieved wide-spread media coverage for his statements that appeared to frame the War on Terror in religious terms, first broadcast on NBC News, October 15, 2003 <12>. William Arkin,<13> military analyst for NBC-TV News, was the source of the video and audiotapes of Boykin. The following day the Los Angeles Times ran a piece on Boykin. Amongst several quotes, the LA Times article revealed Boykin giving a speech about hunting down Osman Atto in Mogadishu: "He went on CNN and he laughed at us, and he said, 'They'll never get me because Allah will protect me. Allah will protect me.' Well, you know what? I knew that my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol." <14>


Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_G._Boykin

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I had forgotten about him - thanks!
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. But is the military paying for it directly?
Because if they are, that's one thing .... if members of the armed forces, who are ALSO private citizens are doing it with their own money .... that's a whole 'nother matter entirely and, IMO, protected under the First Amendment.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Even if the Bibles are donated by the Gideons or other groups, proselytizing in the Middle East...
...goes against our national interest, since we are trying not to be seen as crusaders. I find the idea of an evangelical infiltration for purposes of proselytizing disgusting.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. But again, your thread title says "the US military..."
Edited on Sun May-10-09 01:42 PM by Clio the Leo
and my serious question is, is the military PAYING for it .... or is this being done by private citizens, stationed in Iraq etc?

You and I will never agree on philosophy ... I'm debating you on SEMANTICS. ;)

If the government is PAYING for it, I wholeheartedly agree and it should STOP immediately .... if they're not paying for it directly well ... I would have used different wording in the post. (smile)
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. According to Stewart, at least one General has an organized program...
...of Bible distribution, and Christian flyers (which I would consider propaganda) are stacked in military offices that are visited by local Muslims.

In addition to going against our national interest of safety from religious terrorists, it's just plain rude ~ proselytizing shows great disrespect toward the culture and beliefs of those targeted.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Dishonorable discharge.
Best solution.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yes, you would think. Stewart also mentioned the Air Force Academy...
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Airforce academy is near the heart of the fundamentalist beast
Colorado Springs is the headquarters of Focus on the Family and Dobson.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Palin is part of the evang. movement that teaches about the infiltration of...
...organizations ~ can't think of the term for that. It's really disturbing how far it's gone. imo U.S. Christian extremists are as dangerous as Muslim extremists.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Dominionist
Bringing Christ's kingdom on earth by taking over the government and setting up a theocracy.

Rick Warren is one of the leaders in that movement as well.

They tried that, it was called the middle ages, the church leaders were just as corrupt as the secular leaders and the power hungry bastards couldn't play nice with each other.

The printing press and literacy is probably the leading killer of these movements.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Thanks - that's it. Whenever I read about them I feel sick. :/
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. "Fruitcakes" ..... is the term I believe you're looking for. ;-) NT
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. If two willing adults want to have a discussion with one another on their off time...
.... then, personally, I'd have a problem with that. It's borderline free-speech infringement. So we're clear, the scenario I'm envisioning is a soldier and a translator (for example) having an intelligent conversation about their respective religions. If the translator (who we'll assume for sake of argument is a Muslim) wants to read a Bible given to him by the soldier as a way to educate himself on another religion ..... or if the translator wants to give the soldier a Qu'ran to read to better educate HIMSELF, then I have no problem with that.

(And I realize the military limits the private behavior of troops all of the time, but there's a BIG difference in .... shall we say .... soldiers on leave "frequenting" the locals and two adults having a conversation.)

Now, if you're talking about soldiers distributing religious texts ... regardless of the genre ..... WHILE they are distributing aid or otherwise as a part of official business, then yes, I'd agree with you.

I still dont know that I agree with your above scenario as "the military" doing it because, to me, that implies that it's an established, official program.

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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. Gee, some things adults do in their off time get them fired
I think faith in teh military should be a don't ask and don't tell scenario. They should keep it private and to themselves. They are in the service to represent a nation that is diverse religiously and whose laws are secular in nature.
They need to shut up and render unto Ceasar what they promised.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. If the soldiers want to be missionairies they should do it through their church
When they are out of the service. While they wear that uniform, no evangelism. It does not serve our interest to have tribal leaders believe that American troops are trying to convert their populace to Christianity.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. Harper's May 2009 cover story -- Evangelical Proselytization Still Rampant in U.S. Military
Here's part of the press release about it.

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF: www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org) and its founder and president Mikey Weinstein were profiled by Jeff Sharlet in his piece for Harper’s Magazine, “Jesus Killed Mohammed: The Crusade for a Christian Military.” Mr. Weinstein is the nation's leading advocate for the protection of individual soldiers’ constitutional rights to religious freedom and a frequent critic of the U.S. military hierarchy’s blind eye to efforts to evolve the nation’s military into a modern day band of Christian crusaders.

“Every man and woman who joins our military swears an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and it is unforgiveable that many continue to dictate how, when and to whom a soldier can pray while in uniform,” said Mikey Weinstein, founder and president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF). “The Harper’s Magazine report by Jeff Sharlet exposes shocking new instances of bigotry and evangelical proselytization within our nation’s military that emboldens our enemies, endangers our soldiers on the battlefield and threatens the core of our country. Equally disturbing is Mr. Sharlet’s revelation that despite President Obama’s well-publicized efforts to show the Muslim world that this is not a war against Islam, numerous offending officers and military professionals responsible for these actions continue to serve in high-ranking and influential positions, and many of them stand to be promoted.”
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Wow - thanks for the info. Wonder what Pres. Obama is thinking...
Why try so hard to reframe our relationship with the Middle East and still keep these people in the military?? Maybe he thinks they can be warned and trusted to change ~ I wouldn't bet on it.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. They may be so entrenched that a more careful action plan is required.
Because even something as clearly useless as Don't Ask Don't Tell hasn't been suspended as an emergency measure to keep the soldiers we need at this time. Especially distinguished officers like Lt. Choi.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Good point - it will be interesting to see how the president deals with this...
Maybe in the fall, after healthcare and energy have gotten through Congress, Obama will announce some new plans for the military.
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Hieronymus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
24. It's disgusting to watch our military plotting how to get around the rules
AGAINST proselytizing.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. And scary too!
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
28. OMG - I just realized it was Bill Maher talking about this, not Jon Stewart. So sorry...
...no wonder I couldn't find the vid.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. lol, I thought the notion of this coming from Stewart seemed odd....
.... as I'd never known him to be so outspoken on the topic at hand. I had this mental image of him talking about it on the Daily Show and I'd missed it.

But it was Maher .......... now it all makes sense. ;) (Which is nothing against Bill, but his philosophies on organized religion are pretty well known.)



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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-10-09 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I had Maher's face in my head but still typed Stewart's name - D'OH!
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