He released the torture memos but not the pictures. There is no 'cover up' of what the U.S. did.

It is a practical decision; the memos reveal just what was done but the images are the things that can most easily be used as propaganda against us. Thank god we have a sane president who doesn't let ideologues on the left or the right control his decisions.

The photos should come out as historical records, I agree. They should come out when we are out of the Middle East and our troops aren't in harm's way. Not now, when the situation is so precarious.

You can now resume your 'Obama = Bush' posts whining about how the only way to 'let the truth out' is by releasing the photos regardless of the potential violence towards our men and women in the armed forces as a result.

thoughtful analysis..thank goodness we do have that around here.

...that there is a different strategy afoot here. I believe this is another case where Obama is covering his ass as far as potential Republican criticisms go and, at the same time, creating the right environment that will appear as if it is forcing the administration's hand, which will enable the photos to be released.

Another stated...he is probably rallying support from military officers to abolish DADT by doing this as well.

and people contact their representatives over this. Too much to ask for, I know. As you said..let the Obama=Bush posts continue.

"But, but we have to crucify our own, the Republicans just aren't working hard enough at it".

An amusing prank.

On the one hand, I personally have absolutely no desire to ever see pictures of brutalized people. And the knowledge that they were tortured at the hands of the US government is sickening. Not at all surprising, but sickening nonetheless.

However, the idea that the photos should not come out until US troops are out of harms' way is what I find unsettling in your OP. The release of the photos doesn't add anything to the discussion of the atrocities that have occurred; the fear that future soldiers could be punished for this disgusting behavior is a valid concern and I completely agree that those photos should be Exhibit A in any trial, but this behavior should never have happened. And if US troops perpetrated these crimes, the idea that no one should see what happened until the "troops are out of harm's way" shows way too much protection of the wrong people.

Defense Department To Release Prisoner Abuse Photos By May 28 In Response To ACLU Lawsuit

(4/23/2009)


http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/39455prs20090423.html

"...The photos, which are being released in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union in 2004, include images from prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan at locations other than Abu Ghraib.

"These photographs provide visual proof that prisoner abuse by U.S. personnel was not aberrational but widespread, reaching far beyond the walls of Abu Ghraib," said Amrit Singh, staff attorney with the ACLU. "Their disclosure is critical for helping the public understand the scope and scale of prisoner abuse as well as for holding senior officials accountable for authorizing or permitting such abuse."


President Obama...


"...It’s therefore my belief that the publication of these photos would not add any additional benefit to our understanding of what was carried out in the past by a small number of individuals..."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=311886&mesg_id=311886

I just had a rather heated conversation about this with my dad. Fortunately he finally came to the conclusion that Obama has released the damning memos, and the photos add little in the way of evidentiary value but will enrage. Thanks to Obama's previous actions we have enough evidence to convict the torturer masterminds, and order givers.

Yes, the photos should most definitely be a part of the historic record of Bush/Cheneys' filthy legacy, but they are not needed as evidence. The memos, and the testimony will do the job.

Who claims his penis was sliced open and filled up with a hot liquid?
Some are under the false impression that 4 memos told the whole story.

If that wasn't the case people wouldn't be waiting for more redacted reports. Which makes your last comments utterly irrelevant.

And also has several recs, sadly.

:puke:

and the only questions are whether we water boarded a terrorist for information. I'm disappointed. This country is so much less than it used to be, even with all its warts from the past. I'm not in the least comfortable.

"I think it’s very, very important that we have a clear understanding that what happened here was an honorable approach to defending the nation, that there was nothing devious or deceitful or dishonest or illegal about what was done." - Dick Cheney, 4 days ago

I see what you mean, I think. It's much better to just let the people who would support Cheney have their fantasy reality. No need to tell the truth when lies will serve a better purpose. Makes sense, sort of, if you don't give a shit about truth, justice or the American way.

Sounds to me like you want to just let these bastards crap all over their graves.

The truth here is something we cannot handle. We are being fed outright lies, half truths, unfull disclosures, and evasions. We have an administration that wants to 'move forward' - to not hold anyone accountable - and they cannot do that if the truth comes out. They are hoping this all blows over.

They are in no way equivalent. Few seem to be able to see the pic issue in the larger context of the trying to shut Guantanamo and black sites, ending torture, winding down Iraq and letting the torture memo writers twist in the wind.

I followed what happened when one of our papers printed the now world famous Mohammed drawings.

Stuff like that gets used by fringe elements to incite irrational violence and support from more normal citizens. Emphasis on "irrational".

The reaction will not be "We understand that this was done under the previous administration and has to be released in the interest of full disclosure. We trust you will bring the responsible people to justice."

It will more likely be streets full of "DEATH TO ALL AMERICANS!"(possibly "ALL WESTERN FOREIGNERS!") and "BURN THE EMBASSY!".

The reaction to disclosure will not be in sync with the intent behind doing it. Or perhaps even benefitial to the cause of bringing the responsible to to justice, as a massive overreaction in the Middle East will trigger a defiant reaction in the US. I saw it happen in Denmark - a lot of "Hey, I thought it was wrong too, but if you guys are going to be massive idiots about it...".

That being said, I can understand why many people sees the decision as a continuation of bad policies.

Thanks for making such a reasonable argument amongst all the "hair on fire" arguments I'm seeing. My feeling is that if the photos came out now, it would taint any jury pool and I'm hoping for trials (for Yoo and Bybee for starters). That's when the photos should come out.

when the torture thing first came up, I disabled my "automatic viewing image" thing because I didn't want to look at the pictures. Can you imagine being a mother and seeing a picture of your child being brutalized? In a sense, it seems similar to having the mother watch while they injure her child. I do think the filthy people who thought this up should go to trial and that the unlucky jurists should view the photos as evidence.

Also, I think Iraq must have a low literacy rate because they've been traumatized for a while with a young population and because of that the photographs would have a much bigger impact. Besides, it would be a photoshop temptation. The blow back from these photos should be aimed at the sadists who initiated and implemented policy and not regular people who didn't have much to do with it.

a couple of dozen at Abu Ghraib. How did that happen? What happened at the rendition sites? A lot more than waterboarding.

This issue is not restricted to waterboarding three guys. We don't know what else happened to whom. Hopefully the Obama administration does and they've already determined a course of action. We don't know what it is, yet.

I personally think there are other ways, other than the photos, to get to where we need to be and I hope we'll get there. A truth commission or a prosecutor or a judge may end up seeing all the evidence they need to take action.

But I think what the public knows is the tip of the iceberg and maybe it'll work that way.