Poll: Barack Obama - Corporate Frontman? People's champion?

This poll is simple.

Only two choices. Yes, I know there are shades of grey. However, in this poll, I just want people to pick the side that most closely represents which title which you believe most closely describes Obama.

Solely intended to gauge the perception of the 'base' that is represented strongly on DU.

This is not an attack or defense of the President. Just a small sampling poll. Period.

Completely anonymous

Who could have imagined this poll on this website just 4 months ago.

:toast:

Anyways, it is a stupid poll. Or, rather, a poll for stupid people. Obviously a President is going to have to make concessions; President Barack Obama even more so than usual.

I don't think he will come into his own until a year has passed.

But, I am curious to see the results, as a lot of people are voting....

It stands even right now, but that could have flipped in the time it took to write this...

Ive been wondering. :shrug:

On the board perceive the President...

Nothing more.

Thats why I said OT. Off Topic.

Sorry...

My screen name is just my first name (nickname - my real name is Deborah)...

R is for Rose...Middle Name

Lus is the first three letters of my last name.

Nothing to exciting. :)

tap - jazz - ballet - gymnastics.... My teachers name was Debbie (Deborah) Deb. :D. I lived with her for 16 years. She was Deborah Jane Saucier. I only ask because I love my Debbies. :hug: :loveya: :hi:

and on edit: Debbies DO rule. :bounce:

but quite a few people here find you quite transparent, know you've always opposed virtually everything about obama and won't vote in your nauseating push poll.

who has a complex job and who has to deal with considerations that we do not encounter, who has information that we don't, and who sometimes has to make a judgment call. He doesn't always make the right decisions in my opinion (i.e. with release of photos) but I trust that he has the best interests of the country at heart. Nothing has been demonstrated that makes me believe otherwise.

I think we will have a better idea when he actually gets things done.

It's not too soon to tell.

Look at all the campaign promises he has already broken.

Look at all the Goldman Sachs people running the Department of the Treasury.

Look at efforts to implement a new Free Trade agreement with Panama, a tax shelter nation, after campaigning against free trade.

It is Definitely Not too soon to tell if you open your eyes and look. He is surrounded by lobbyists and listening to nobody else but the lobbyists. He is doing everything that wall street wants and giving them everything on their wish list.

Anyone who thinks he is championing people needs to make a list of how, and try to balance that against what he's doing to champion corporations. I guarantee championing corporations wins by a wide margin.

Sad but true.

Obama was my second to last choice. Hilary was my last because I thought she would be an even larger corporatist than Obama. I think I may have been mistaken. At this point the only thing I want from Obama is universal heath-care with a government option. I don't think he is going to be able to do jack shit on anything else. If he pulls off health-care, he will get a second term. If he can't do it then he will join Jimmy Carter as one of our most reviled one term presidents.

The economy and the wars are going very badly with no signs of a turnaround. If things continue on this path, I predict the majority on this board are going to be calling for his head on pike by this time next year.

"The economy and the wars are going very badly with no signs of a turnaround. If things continue on this path, I predict the majority on this board are going to be calling for his head on pike by this time next year."

He is going to get us out of Iraq. That alone will be an outstanding achievement.

Afghanistan is different; it is a real quagmire but not one of his own making. I think Americans will give President Obama a break as long as Pakistan is able to handle its own Pashtun problem.

:rofl:

year we will know. We will know not only if BO is Mr. Corporate Frontman but if the Dem party is a lost cause.

The HC is going to benefit the for-profit insurers or it is going to benefit the people. They have their choice in front of them, we will see what they choose.

But some people will see that something passed, no matter what it is, and cheer that this means he's a wonderful champion of the people even if it's blatantly written by the insurance industry to give all our money away to them. :P

There is no accounting for some people not bothering to read what comes out of Washington. They'll cheer anything if that's what they're looking to do.

For those of us who will actually read what this health care legislation does, and care about it (because we know our lives will be directly affected by it) this is going to be a very obvious test of what Obama's priorities and allegiances are.

and Obama is surrounded by DLC types who are rapidly cocooning him in the Presidential bubble. I believe he's not getting all sides anymore. I believe he's beholden to very powerful special interests that he is essentially powerless against: Max Baucus comes to mind. He's chairing the committee to reform health care. But Baucus is so beholden to big pharma/med/healthcare insurance etc. that single payer or any other "populist" ideas are shut out. So the healthcare "reform" bill that will come about, and be presented to Obama, will only be the result of corporate shilling. Add on the pressure Obama will face from the healthcare lobby and it's a virtual lock that he'll cave and become a corporate frontman for what the healthcare insurance companies want.

The same is happening with the economic "stimulus" funds - they are being channeled by very powerful Wall St. corpo interests as directed by Geithner, Summers and Paulson.

I could go on and on but you get the gist.

You can say it's only black or white but that's crap. It's the combination of the level of power that's exerted, the level of cocooning, who the advisors are....

Truly, I think Obama DOES think he's a man of the people. Michelle too. But the reality is that they are now in the most rarified of environments, being asked to be players on a global scale and ensure their family's fortunes ... basically forever.

And who's fault is that?

Prez Obama's Inauguration cost too much. You're not fooling anyone with your "poll" to try and get your "Obama is a corporate frontman" dig in.

I love our DUers with longer memories than mine.

Oh snap!

:toast:

The votes you see are solely the views of the voters on DU.

Period.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

By now even Obama's biggest cheerleaders should be able to look as see what decisions he's making, who he's favoring, and where he's sending all of our money.

It's obvious who he's rushing to serve as his first priority in all of his biggest and most urgent actions.

This is the foundation for his entire administration. Take a good look at what he has been doing and who has been championing.

some of you love simplistic and stupid though, so hey, go for it.

of a president without actually paying attention to what he's doing and who he's choosing to help instead of the people who elected him.

This poll isn't simplistic and stupid. It's long past due to point out to people what they've been overlooking.

of course this is a simplistic and deeply stupid poll. it reflects a black/white bushian mentality. that's deeply stupid.

Though, given your history of only expressing 100% faith and support for Obama without ever citing anything he actually does, I don't expect you to actually do that. You've been just a cheerleader so far.

so blind as those who will not see!" Your posts have a lot of merit, I applaud your patience............

The opinion of DU.

RNC would be proud.

Good poll debbierlus.

and by "champion" you mean giving them all our money and all our kids' money and all our grandkids' money, then he's clearly a people's champion.

You don't get to seriously contend for the Presidency, let alone win it, without being compromised. The owners of the country will only let President Obama do so much, go so far and never to the detriment of their profit. That's why we aren't getting out of the wars, ever. That's why we'll never have a not-for-profit universal health care system. That's why EFCA won't pass. That's why we'll never get off the foreign oil tit until the last drop is gone. The owners don't give a fuck about us, never have, never will.

"Barack Obama: Good or Evil?"

Oy.

Since it's anonymous, what satisfaction do you get from having such a relatively high percentage of respondents think he's merely a "Corporate Frontman", as I'm guessing you do?

:eyes:

this poll indicates nothing but that you're entranced by your own sad delusions. And you are supremely transparent. most amusing to watch.

simply because he's wonderful and got elected are the ones entranced by their own sad delusions. They're still wrapped up in the "hope" from the election. It's as if all the news about what Obama has been doing for the past four months doesn't exist for some people.

He looks wonderful at photo ops, so that's enough. He's still a wonderful man. Never mind his official acts and his policies. Anyone who pays attention to that stuff is somehow engaging in sad delusions. Wow. :eyes:

...has been completely unwinding the past 28 years of Reaganism.

- Siding with auto unions

- Ending Bush's anti-science policies

- Passing the most progressive federal budget in decades

- In a heartbeat, flipping the anti-American sentiment around the world on its head.

That's just a small sample....



The past 4 months have been AMAZINGLY good in comparison to the previous 8 years. More good things have happened, from a progressive's perspective, in the past four months than have happened in 30 years.... and that includes Clinton's 8 years.



You're nuts.

siding with the auto union is minor when there are no dollars involved. Compare that to his support for the banks and insurance companies. His support for the auto unions was wonderful but it was just words. It was only a big deal in comparison to bush, but not in comparison to the Real Support he's giving wealthy corporations.

Ending anti-science policies, yes, I agree with you here. But he hasn't re-hired all the scientists bush purged, or provided the budget to hire the scientists yet to get back to work. It's a two-part solution, and he hasn't implemented the second part yet.

Passing the most progressive federal budget? Excuse me? He's increasing the military budget even beyond Bush levels and slashing everything else. He's shoveling Trillions of dollars into banks and insurance companies without anything to show for it. That's not progressive. The only progressive news so far is that he's canceling money for abstinence only education. His budget has some progressive elements to it, but they account for a very small percentage of his budget. Again, it's progressive only compared to bush, but not compared to what he promised or compared to what he could be doing.

Flipping anti-American sentiment? By keeping Guantanamo and CIA prisons open? By continuing to hold people without trials, without rights, and without access to law or the red cross? By keeping us in Iraq and Afghanistan? By covering up for Bush and Cheney's crimes and having the DOJ fight hard to hide the evidence? By hiding the torture pictures that the whole world already knows exist? He is improving our relationship with the leaders of our ally nations, but not our public image in much of the world. Much of the boost is image we got from his election is gone because of his actions.

Your answer was a simplistic headline answer. Do you read beyond headlines?

right. He's waffled on closing the prisons, the release of the torture photos. There has not been that much done
that is truly progressive, I know he's a centrist dem, but his words "we are a nation of laws or we are nothing"
aren't consistent with his actions. I wouldn't want his job, it's damn near impossible. I keep hoping he's trying
to let the people pull the country towards a progressive agenda, and I hope that's what he wants, that's my hope,
There are some incredibly dark forces out there, and he hasn't been in power for 4 months, so it is soon to judge,
but it doesn't feel good right now.

fuck it and fuck the lame mentality behind it as well.

Can you list ways he's championing people?
Can you list ways he's championing corporations?
Can you compare the two lists?

That seems like a pretty straight forward measure of how well Obama is representing us. Unless you're priority is just to cheerlead for Obama regardless of what he's doing, then I could understand how you'd be upset.

He looks good at photo ops. Isn't he wonderful? Ra Ra Ra! :eyes:

how narrow and limited that you can't. From the Lily Ledbetter Act which he absolutely championded to Union support, to his approach to science and the environment, and yes, I can list the areas where he's letting people down, but sorry, binary thinking about complex situations remains bushian and deeply stupid. Oh, and anyone who bothers can see that I don't mindlessly cheer Obama. Nor do I mindlessly bash him. Some of us prefer to actually think. try it.

Temper, temper. Could we perhaps entice you to hold your breath until we agree with you? Lame indeed.

:silly:

46 freakin' percent that are basically saying there is no difference between Bush and Obama.


That tells me that nearly half of DU is completely off the deep end and have lost all capability for rational thought.


Really? You REALLY think that Obama is Tweedle-dum to Bush's Tweedle-dee?


Does Ralph Nader hold 46% of the accounts at DU?



Mass insanity. That's the only explanation.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

in the primaries and they are still here. There is still a majority here who does not believe that.

they think the travelocity gnome will save us... :eyes:

So far only 56 of the haters have voted in this. There have been over 1200 views and I'm sure most looked in and chose not to vote in this ignorant poll.

Exhibit A: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8405386&mesg_id=8405386

party or in the way they govern.

:shrug:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

:P

...

The extent to which his desires will be tempered by bitter reality is something he is (painfully,
I'd wager) learning about. Bill Clinton certainly found out fast enough.

I think he probably had the best of intentions.

But he is surrounded by lobbyists and that's clearly who he listens too and answers too.

He got elected because of big money from Goldman Sachs and other mega-corporations. Despite record amounts of small-money donations those only accounted for a minority amount of his funding. The large majority of his funding still came from the traditional corporate sources, so he is owned by the traditional corporate sources. They are demanding that he work for them to pay them back, and clearly that's what he's doing.

They have his ear and we don't.

Goldman Sachs controls the majority of the top posts in the Treasury department, and other industry insiders control the top posts in most other departments. The corporations control all the information he gets on every major topic when he asks for briefings. If you can control what someone learns then you can control what they do. That is an amazingly powerful influence that corporations have just by controlling the departments under Obama. :(

Whatever his original intentions, and I believe they were good, he has been corrupted because he is saturated inside the political environment of corporate money, lobbyists and beltway politics. :(

All the bad decisions, the pro-corporate, free trade, anti-middle class decisions are the result of the accumulated environment upon him.

As it happens, I truly believe it will stimulate the economy if he buys me a pony.

that there are a lot of people who want what they want and they want it all done right away. Many are angry when they know full well that they have never asked a president to do so much in the first months and this President has a whole lot more to deal with than many.

Also,the Pres is trying to get the big things done as best he can before he loses some seats in 2010. I truly believe that he is trying to do the best he can while working with Bush leftovers still in different departments and he also is fighting with the so called Dems/bluedogs who are now showing their true colors. I think he is doing a good job considering what he has to work with.


Yes,we have to push and let him know how we feel about certain issues but some people are being ridiculous,our President does more by 9am than most Presidents' especially bush did in 4 years. Repubs know as well as we do that their are a lot of new voters who don't really,really know how the games are played in washington and if it keeps on going on the way it is we may have a lot of repugs winning more seats next time and we really won't get anything done.

I heard Limbaugh this afternoon saying that we have gotten more done than most and we still aren't satisfied we haven't even gotten started yet...

that doesn't mean that I don't like some of the things that he has done and I am still glad he is the President but all in all I think he has gone balls to the wall for for the corporate masters.

a good poll. I don't think either choice is idiotic.

At this stage of the American game, any president is going to be a frontman for corporations to some extent. Yet he is also clearly doing some things that are right for the people.

Binary thinking...meh.

Seriously, I feel the same way. I just Champ of the People because I feel he trends more in that direction.

They're putting pressure on Obama too. They have priorities, and they want him working on their agenda. Shows on NBC and CNBC are one of the ways they have to put this pressure on him.

I don't think it's very surprising that they'd use the socialism slur to warn him against doing anything significant to help people. Those are shots across the bow, warning him that they'll attack him unmercifully if he deviates from their agenda.

It's a shame that only corporations have that much power to communicate with the president in so many different powerful ways. They control the lobbyists, the media programs, the talking heads, what is considered news and what makes it into editorial news content, and they get to frame every discussion in language of their choosing for their own benefit.

Then, here we are on a message board where nobody of importance is going to ever hear us. :(

dictatorship. I've talked with the rank and file. They are sincere about it. They're crazy as hell, but they are sincere. Then I go to DU and suddenly Obama is some right-winger in liberal clothing. It causes a little bit of cognitive dissonance for me.

He is neither a socialist nor a corporate tool. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

eom

but I'll lean towards people's champion. He's ALREADY done more for the people than most of the corporate frontmen we've have over the years. Generally, it is much heavier in the frontman department. Hell, he at least talks about the people, that puts him in the middle of the pack or better just for lip service.

I can;t really vote without that choice

Some good things, some troubling things.

but I voted frontman. So far he has mostly caved in to Wall Street, the defense establishment, and the health care industry. I think he is a good man who means well. Winning the presidency was a good first step toward making substantial change possible, but it's going to take a lot of new faces in the House and Senate to make populist change a reality.

seen. Hands-down.

hands down. Obama isn't even remotely close. These political cartoons you sometimes see of Obama in FDR-ish poses are a bad joke.

And both JFK adn LBJ made efforts to help poor people, and were willing to make enemies to do if it was necessary to accomplish it.

They didn't cave in to lobbyists.

Obama's national career on the other hand has thus far been a marked by a littany of playing it safe and going along to get along.

And being extraordinaily lucky (which is not meant as a put down- we want "lucky generals"). Trouble is- sooner or later, luck runs out.

the FDR caved in Southern Dems in civil rights and JFK exactly didn't go running into the battle.

Wanting to close corporate tax loopholes and shut down tax havens is a clear sign that he's corporate tool who hate the poor.

My parents view RFK as way more of a liberal then JFK ever was.
FDR had personal foibles and put Japanese Americans in camps. He did not want to get involved in WW II at all.
LBJ had lots of courage when it came to advancing the Great Society but also led us into Vietnam.
No Dem President has ever been perfect. I hate seeing such simplified thinking here from many posters.

Obama?

He's trying to get a Free Trade agreement right now with Panama, a tax shelter haven for off-shoring corporate money. If he gets this, not only will more jobs and money get sucked out of the US, but Panama's tax laws will be protected under the free trade agreement.

The IRS won't be able to pressure Panama to stop hiding American wealth from the IRS. Panama would become a Permanent protected place to off-shore money to hide it from the IRS.

How is that closing a loophole?

Closing loopholes is wonderful, but the trick is that you have to be consistent about it, and while you are doing it you can't create any new ones or make any existing ones bigger or permanent. Otherwise, the end result is to actually make the problem worse.

Wouldn't it be ironic if Obama got credit for closing tax loopholes while actually making it easier for the wealthy and for corporations to avoid paying taxes?

that illegally detained American citizens REMOVES FDR from consideration and no further discussion is really necessary. You can't just ignore concentration camps.

ANYONE who is going to be head of government and head of state of the world's leading corporate-dominated, capitalist society is OBVIOUSLY going to a large extent serve those interest.

Within that context, President Obama is probably about as much as a "champion on the people" as the situation could possibly allow without committing political suicide and throwing the economic and political structures into complete upheaval and turmoil with a completely uncertain outcome.

In politics, one can work on that which is possible or one can rant rave about that which is impossible - at least impossible for the foreseeable future.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I'm not finding some of his decisions very encouraging on the people's champion front, especially in his dealings with the bank bailouts, but I'm willing to give him a chance. How he deals with healthcare is going to tell us a lot about where he truly stands...


------

I see the goon squad is after you....

Obama's not stupid.. he realizes that in order to BE a champion for the people.. he needs to help keep them employed, in their homes, and able to put food on the table.

To do that - he needs to keep corporations somewhat happy and afloat so that they can employ the people that he wishes to champion for.

It's not an either/or world.. he's (IMO) trying to do both, because they are not mutually exclusive.