"I Don't Know Where He Finished in His Class at Princeton, But I Know it Wasn't Second"

Oh Gibbsy, how I love you...

Robert Gibbs just now on Keith slamming the fuck out of Karl Rove (who didn't go to Princeton by the way)regarding Karl's blathering about Sonia Sotomayor...

President George W. Bush’s college records have often been mocked, as Bush was a solid C student at Yale University. However, Bush’s Yale experience went significantly better than Vice President Dick Cheney’s. Cheney actually flunked out of Yale.

In fact, young Dick Cheney had a bit of wild youth. He was arrested twice for drunk driving charges in the early 1960s in Wyoming, where he worked as a lineman for a power company. He did finally go back to school, although, as the New York Times has suggested, this may have had more to do with wanting to avoid getting drafted into Vietnam than it did with wanting to get an education.

In 1963, Cheney enrolled at Casper Community College in Casper, Wyoming. Later that year, he transferred to the University of Wyoming at Laramie, where he earned a BA and an MA in political science. He also began doctoral work in political science at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, but he did not finish.


http://www.eduinreview.com/blog/2008/10/college-records-of-dick-cheney-show-he-failed-out-of-yale/

I never cared enough about either of those two to persue their backgrounds - maybe I should start to look these things up...


mark

He had felt intimidated by the eastern elite guys who populated Yale's student body at the time and it stayed with him and fed his feelings of inferiority.

I don't know if that's true but it certainly would explain his dark and sinister outlook on life...

"white shoe", prep school guys. My guess is that he felt like a hick and he carried a grudge around for a long time...

dangerous man.

I think he went back to U of Wyoming.

I may turn it off if when Turley comes on though. That man has become tiresome.

With folks like Rahm, you know the smackdown is coming and you're waiting for it. However, Gibbs will bitch slap you out of nowhere and smile while doing it...

and the University of Texas.

classes they want/need at the time. Nothing wrong with that.

I finally finished up those last remaining course when I was already in my 50s. Then I decided I should go to grad school and finally finished that when I was in my early 60s. Life is funny...

put a hold on some things--like one's education. We --meaning those who aspire to get a college education--do not start out on the same plane and lots of that has to do with finances. Going to different colleges to get required courses--and having the colleges available in your area is an asset for many. I applaud anyone--of any stripe --who pushes themselves to get that degree.

Once again. Congratulations.


I am an ABD and will work on it this summer--like you I am older.

I couldn't really see the point of it. I was one year away from retirement and while I loved being a "grad student" in New Haven with all the other grad students I didn't want to put the work into any more schooling.

What is your doctorate in? Good for you, BTW, for being so diligent.

The last I knew, colleges offered all the courses needed to fulfill graduation requirements for the degree. Sure there may be difficulty in getting the preferred classes each semester.

But to enroll in several colleges really doesn't wash in most cases except for financial, family or other hardship type considerations. There may be times where students are not able to cope with the university environment and need a different college. But more than twice?

The above only applies to full-time students.

Part-time students are a different breed to consider.

to get her 4 year BS degree, as I recall.

although I think he is too nice to those pushy WH reporters they need to be shut down at times.

... or if he's not the first .... the first in recent memory.

I adore that man.

I would confiscate those damn phones too if they kept ringing while I was trying to talk.
But seriously, he is funny and adept at one liners as well as down to earth and genuine.

Most Americans do not have a college degree.

While Gibbs' comment is satisfying on some level, this is precisely the kind of comment which a lot of people take as an insult directed at them.

degrees. Most of my class in high school (circe 1994) went on to college and even to get master's degrees, as I am currently going to do.

Your high school class is not representative of the population of this country.

The US Census Bureau cites Generation X as statistically holding the highest education levels when looking at age group (bloc): US Census Bureau, in their 2009 Statistical Abstract. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X

Not sure about Gen Y but I assume they will be well educated too.
Most of us grew up with the idea that you have to go to college to get any kind of job except mimimum wage. Its not elitist, its the truth. College degrees are not all that special when many in your generation have them, its just a given.
Sad thing is, we still make less then our parents did financially.

Also, I realize not everyone goes to college but for most in their twenties and thirties its kind of seen as the automatic step after high school unless you go into a trade school of some time in high school.

There are more people in Gen X who do not have a college education that ones who do.

Less than 25% of the population over age 25 has a college education. The remaining 75% don't like being called stupid.

Even if we limit to Gen X, and further limit to heads of households:

http://www.sric-bi.com/CFD/MRsummaries/MR.VI-08.shtml
"Four in ten Gen X primary heads have at least a college degree"

Now go look up the meaning of such words as "most" or "majority". To recap most Americans don't have a college degree, and most Gen Xers don't either. If you can't grasp that, what was your degree for? Phys-ed? Six is bigger than four, in case that one missed you. Do you need a diagram?

The overwhelming majority of Americans can certainly appreciate that Hon. Sotomayor has attained remarkable academic achievement, but do not need to be indirectly called stupid when that fact is pointed out. They are misinformed, and then constantly told they are wrong and stupid by people who think they are "better".

We have a fat lot of anti-intellectual, militant stupid people in this country. Being condescending about education is one reason why.

But you obviously can't understand that because you do not have the several postgraduate degrees that I do. See how that works?

By the way, I was born in 1963. Thank you for explaining to me the privileged white suburban culture in which I was raised. I must not have noticed.

to inspire to? Of course, its too expensive right now for many but why the anti education bias?
By the way, I have a degree in psych, a CDA to teach early child education and am in the process of getting a masters to teach elementary education. I am 33 and I payed for most of it myself. And I was not rich by any means, just barely middle class.
However, if it was more affordable I bet many would go. And many that don't do not go for financial reasons not because of some anti education thing or shame of being uneducated. Its too damn hard for many to go.
Plus "elitists" looking down on the uneducated is sort of a right wing talking point and simply not true. I don't look down on anyone who chose or could not choose to go to college, I wish more were able to afford it.

Because the minority of people with college degrees practically can't help themselves in their snotty attitudes toward the majority who do not have them, in case you missed that while patting yourself on the back. Read your own posts... people have minimum wage jobs and go to trade school.

"aspire" and "inspire" are two different words - look them up, smartypants.

I never said anyone was smarter or not, just that getting a degree can get you a better job. Or a job, in this economy. Also, I went to a state university, what is snobby about that?
Sotomayor was also from very modest means and made it into Priceton.

Look, you objected to the true factual statement that most Americans don't have a college degree.

Then you objected to the true factual statement that most Gen Xers don't have a college degree, and your education apparently was insufficient to immediately recognize the flaw in the assertion that simply because they have a higher rate of college degrees than others, it does not mean that a majority do.

It is possible to say good things about a person without putting down another person, and by implication a class of people.

It is a right wing talking point that gets traction precisely because of the type of comment Gibbs made.

Get over yourself. Try to look at things from a perspective other than yours.

who knows? Right wingers seem to think that education is a bad thing. Actually, they use people who don't have an education to their advantage by saying Dems don't care about them, which is not true and also to convince them that education is for snobby liberals.
My own brother never finished college, he just was not that into it. I worry more about people's ability to get a good job, and not be as repressed by society then about if the education made them smart or not. I wish my brother could make more then 12 dollars an hour. He is a smart person, I just want better for him. Actually, as I am studying to be a teacher many times in my classes we have discussed that lots of people have learning issues that stops them from doing well in school that have nothing do with how smart they are but how they acquire info. Many people do not learn well by sitting down and listening to a lecture. My brother just could not sit and listen to the info and process it and spit it back on a test. He can carry on plenty of intelligent conversations however so its not college vs lack of college that makes people stupid or not. He is plenty smart he just has trouble with the traditional way of learning and I suspect many people have the same problem.

But I am glad you took the time to put up with me and you did open my eyes to the fact that many in the US do not have college degrees and do not want to be looked down for it.

.

take too kindly to people with inferior academic resumes criticizing the qualifications of people with superior education without evidence of stupidity. If they have proof that she's dumb then come out with it.

It's like someone on the internet responding to you with "your stupid." You would laugh at that person because they don't even know proper grammar and are calling you stupid. These chickenhawks can loudly diss liberals or democrats that actually served in the military and now these same people are dropouts who loudly call people dumb that graduated at the top of their Ivy League classes. So that's how it works now? You gotta sit there and take it because you don't want these same idiots who like to look down on people (what do you think calling someone a dumb affirmative action appointee is) feeling insulted. Well boo hoo.

We managed to get through an entire campaign without either Barack Obama or Joe Biden pointing out the obvious fact that Sarah Palin is a certifiable idiot, and that was one of the obvious strengths of the campaign. They let her be one, all on her own. They were hoping to play off an expected condescension from Biden during the debate, but instead it played as him being a remarkable gentleman while letting her babble.

Pointing out that the Hon. Sonia Sotomayer has high academic achievement is fine. Making it a comparative thing comes across as snotty. Fortunately, Karl Rove is not the appointee.

What plays well among us jaded internet folks - and I thought Gibbs' comment was hilarious too - doesn't play as well to a broader audience.

Or does the "she's not intelligent enough" crap leveled at Sotomayor get the same reaction?

The response to "she is not intelligent" is "she graduated 2nd in her class at Princeton".

That is different from saying "she graduated 2nd in her class from Princeton, and you are a moron because you didn't graduate from college."

Do you see a difference between those two statements?

The second statement is a broader put-down.

but some idiots are criticizing her lack of intelligence.

All but the most hard-headed see it for what it is - racism.

But yeah, Gibbs' jab at Rove is waaaaay more offensive. Sure it is.

Stupid people need things repeated.

I didn't say it was offensive, but it is the kind of thing that turns people off.

Devry should be the new Yale. :sarcasm:

:rofl:

I can't imagine any rational person being personally insulted by a reference to someone else's college attendance.

Whatever one can or can't imagine, given the choice between a positive statement and a put-down, the first option plays better. Karl Rove has not been nominated to any position, so "better than" comparisons aren't the point.

The point is that Hon. Sotomayor has an outstanding record of achievement and experience, and is well qualified for the nomination. The point is not "Karl Rove is stupid".

I don't think it was a "better than" comparison. I think it was a credibility question.

There's a difference between singling someone out and calling him stupid, and pointing out that in this case the "judge" has demonstrated lack of ability in the area he is judging.

Gibb's in no way suggested that people who didn't go to or finish college are stupid. He pointed out that they aren't necessarily qualified to pass judgement on those who obtained advanced degrees at the top of some of the tougher schools.

The fact is that Rove attacked Sotomayor on exactly his *own* weakness. She's a master chef; he dropped or flunked out of culinary school. He therefore has little credibility attacking her cooking skills. That Gibb's reminded him that he dropped out of culinary school is not a putdown of all people who didn't get to attend culinary school. I think most people get that.

Which, in my opinion, makes it a classier dismissal than publicly rubbing Karl's nose in his personal history.

That's precisely my point. I'd bet most people who do not obsess over politics would assume Rove has a college education of some sort, and that the comment is a rimshot applicable to anyone who did not place highly in an elite school.

To those who know better, yes it is a "classier dismissal", which is exactly why it would fly clean over the heads of most everyone else.

Remember, there are a substantial number of people who think Stephen Colbert is a conservative. Snarkiness doesn't work well to a broad audience.

:eyes:

But that's beside the point.

This is the kind of thing I would run into talking to people who were initially taken with Palin during the election. Failing to note that not everyone is qualified to be VP, some of the criticisms would be taken personally and broadly by those who heard them.

As noted by another poster upthread, the message is "you are not qualified to have an opinion unless you have X, Y, or Z credentials" instead of "she's very well qualified because she has X, Y or Z".

I didn't graduate from Princeton either. May I have an opinion about Hon. Sotomayor?

I guess my positive opinion is an invalid as a non-college-graduate's negative one.

I imagine that anyone can find an insult anywhere if they look hard enough--- even in places where they don't exist...

tell the world how "not to bright" some one else is. It's kind of like apples and oranges, IMO.