Prop 2 1/2

I am sick of seeing school districts made to suffer due to the policies of our morman (or is that moron) governor and then the short sighted citizens of our cities and towns turning down 2 1/2 override intitives. I understand high tax rates are a bain to us all, but we cannot allow education to suffer because of tight pockets. I am curious how the rest of you massholes feel of this topic and what can we do to stem the tide.

It doesn't appear to be paying for "education", at least the way I see education.

Property tax is way out of hand.


Soon we'll have fabulous schools, but everyone will be homeless.

I grew up in Cambridge, my property taxes are $9 per $1000. Compare that with crappy NH-no income tax but they pay between $20 AND $30 per $1000. And the home values have skyrocketed.

While the quality of education in Mass. consistantly fails to improve.

Thirty-odd years ago, the legislature approved what was then one of the country's earliest lotteries. The money from the lottery was supposed to go back to the cities and towns to help with particularly the rising costs of public education. The legislature very quickly changed that law, after the lottery was begun, so that proceeds for the lottery went into the general fund. The money was never disbursed to the cities and towns.


That's part of Massachusetts' specific problem, but, in Massachusetts, as elsewhere, my feeling is that the root cause is tax avoidance by corporations. The relative share of the Federal budget paid for by corporations thirty or so years ago was in the neighborhood of 35%. In 2002, it was in the 11% range. In 2003, current estimates are that the amount may be as low as 8%--maybe even less.

State returns are based on Federal returns, and this alone can account for the lack of availability of funds for education. Corporations benefit from infrastructure as much or more than do ordinary citizens, and particularly with regard to public education (including public higher education) since well-educated people are a clear advantage to corporations. And yet, they haven't been paying their share for years. Even Adam Smith has said it's business suicide not to support the communities that have enabled the wealth of that business.

Romney has reduced funding to the towns each year that he has been in office. And what happens? Both property taxes go up and layoffs happen. My town had to layoff teachers, police, and firefighters this year because our funding from the state was reduced by 20% compared to last year. And last year was a reduction from the year before.

And now Romney wants to lower state income taxes? That will just make the situation even worse. Less funding to towns. More layoffs, higher property taxes.

I really feel bad for those on fixed incomes like senior citizens. Property taxes hurt them a lot.

We need to boot Romney and put in someone that will fund the towns appropriately.

to get our schools back on the right track!! Now, I had forgotten about the lottery funds! Any ideas what can be done to correct this situation.

I have to agree with you, jfetoe. In my town of Barnstable, we turned down an override and now we have to lay off 24 teachers. Not to mention that families already have to pay for everything, including band, sports, busing, full day kindergarten, and god knows what else. The override would have cut some of these fees and kept the teachers. But it failed and failed badly -- something like 69% of residents voted against it.

Observers say that the override was badly timed -- it happened not long after people got the re-valuations on their houses and taxes went up already for many people because housing values have gone up so much. I think that was an excuse, though. I mean, the value of our house almost doubled, and our taxes only went up about $400/year.
We absorbed that pretty easily, and would have absorbed the $50-100 extra had the override passed.

I can't speak for other towns, but our property taxes are pretty reasonable -- we pay $1700/year on a $200K house. Had we stayed in NY, we'd be paying about 3 times that. (Of course, we have NO services -- no trash pickup, for example.)

Being on the Cape, we have a lot of retirees who voted against the override. Many of them are sitting on houses that have skyrocketed in value and their taxes went up accordingly. I hate to say it, but
I can't cry too many tears for people sitting on $500K houses in Osterville who whine about not being able to pay their taxes.

Not being a longtime resident, I can't comment on how the state funds education and what the best way would be to do that. I do think cutting taxes and not increasing local aid is a bad idea -- Mitt, I'm talking to you!

My experience here does make me leery of staying in Barnstable if/when we have kids, if they are going to be nickled and dimed throughout their academic career.

i was in your neck of the woods this weekend, even with the crummy weather the cape is the place to be this time of year. (next week will be a different story!!)

I agree that Mitt's economic policies are killing cities and towns with cutting tax rates and cutting local aid. You cannot operate in 2004 with 2002 dollars. The senior citizens are looking after their own pockets when they vote against overrides, I don't begrudge them that. I hope to be one someday!!

The real problem is the amount a town can reassess your property.

The reassessments in my town have forced up the property taxes far, far higher than Prop 2 1/2 could ever do.

I bought a tiny chunk of land next to my house for $400. My most recent tax bill assessed this land for $21,000 ..... up from $13,000 in the previous quarter. Does that sound like more than 2.5 percent? I think so! My house assessment went up almost $100,000.

Now I'm paying nearly $6,000 per year on a salary of $24,000 (before taxes).

It won't be long before I'm forced to sell.

I wonder if the equitable solution to this problem is an increase in the sales tax for the state, with that increase earmarked for education.

IMHO, is to increase the income tax somehow. Sales tax and property tax are so regressive and hurt the poor and middle classes.

but I also think that the sales tax can be raised. I don't think of that as unfair to the poor and middleclass as our state doesn't tax on groceries (at least the last time I went and noticed!)or certain clothing.

My property taxes have gone up nearly 50% over the past three years.

2.5% my ass.
:mad:

first of all, i hate the property tax as a vehicle to fund anything ... the valuation of my house does not represent my ability to support my town ... if i built a very expensive house 20 years ago or i bought an inexpensive house that's gone way up in value, it does not mean i can afford the $7000+ a year property tax bill i currently receive ...

secondly, there have been times where i was out of work, barely able to pay my mortgage, while my neighbor in his little tiny house stuffed with kids in the school system was earning big bucks ... he had the income to pay more taxes; i didn't ... my property taxes were more than double his ... what sense does that system make?

the town selectmen refuse to put any restraint on development ... the big houses being built are usually filled with kids ... each kid costs the town over $9000 a year ... do i support public education ??? you bet i do ... do i support higher taxes caused by unrestrained growth ?? no way ...

and something seems very wrong here ... we've seen housing prices double over the last ten years or so ... it is not at all clear to me that teacher salaries and other school related expenses have also doubled ...

i have to tell you that i voted against prop 2.5 when it was originally passed ... but i am totally fed up with the property tax system ... the real problem of course is that we waste virtually limitless dollars on corporate welfare and the bloated defense budget ... no wonder we have to squeeze defenseless homeowners to kick in even more ...