With sadness, I took myself off the John Kerry mailing list

I can't accept his behavior during and post election. Sorry.

:shrug:

;(


What if he really is doing stuff like...getting kids health insurance, or working on election reform?

That's funny, I must've missed some of it I guess. The part I saw was pretty pathetic.

Yeah --it's terrible that he didn't get fat and grow a beard like Gore did. What is he trying to prove with all this "in your face" challenging to the Bush regime anyways?

I think we could be great friends! :::wink:::

Am I missing a joke?

I just LOVED your snark! :loveya: for your snark!

It's a Brooklyn thang. :::::snark::::

hands. kerry sold us to the diebold machines. he didn't even fight for a recount--and now he wants to look like (i hate to say) a decorated war hero. i got an e-mail from him today. i actually deleted without even reading it. i won't let myself be used a second time.

if you'd have a little patience and just watch him, you will see him fight. He was smart enough to choose his battles, that's all. He knows more about the situation than we do. He sold us to the diebold machines??? That makes no sense at all, sorry.

when they were scheduled to attack Fallujah the same week, it was a political trap waiting to happen. He is already showing that he is more committed by going over there to TALK to people -- not take a friggin plastic turkey for a photo op.

IF the votes had been closer, there wouldn't have been any hesitation.... and he had nothing to do with the machines -- except that he and countless others in high places dismissed the potential abuse with them... but considering Diebold's been used for years, again -- if He were the one demanding that there was a change (how could this possibily happen) before the election -- without proof besides Bev showing Dean.... who would have bought into it?

Even after the sleazy stuff we're seeing -- you don't see a bunch of people in Congress demanding RIGHT NOW for the machines to go away. It's just not that easy.

I'm sorry that those of you feel that he no longer represents you -- that he's lost your respect. I feel that for who he is dealing with -- and how many of them there are -- that he made the most rational decision, and he's still in a position to be visible. Yes, now it's Dems against the Mighty Republicans -- but if enough of these things are filmed (and they usually are) -- if and when investigations begin to happen on Iraq or the election or whatever, you'll see that there are an awful lot of people out wishing they took a different stance, and in Ohio I can think of two Senators who will probably have wished they didn't flash letters to the editor as proof that the election was fair.

Will it happen tomorrow? No. Might even take longer than Nixon. The more people write Senators and media -- (yes, even now!) the more they can't deny the sentiment of the people.....

What controversial issue has John Kerry fought for at any time since his BCCI days?

All of you who keep harking back to his glory days -- they are so OVER it's appalling. You are talking ancient history, girl, and someone who is so different than today's John Kerry it seems like a different person, much as I look back at my own life and see that I've been several different persons since I was about 20 (yeah, who WAS that fool who married that jerk at age 20, anyway?).

A friend of mine thinks those of you hanging onto some vision of John Kerry as effective fighter and Democratic opposition leader are "poignant." I admire her compassion, we'll call it, but can't share it. All I see is pathology. QUIT LYING TO YOURSELVES. It's sick. I hate lies and deception, but I think I hate self-deception the most.

I just learned a lot.

He knew she was going to be confirmed so he gave a token Nay vote to fool people.

1. His Skull and Bones/Illumnati ties
2. The WEAK election that he ran
3. The way he hampered recount/voter fraud action in Ohio(per Jesse Jackson on Majority Report
4. The speed with which he conceded!

finis.

May I suggest Free Republic? I have to warn you, though, they don't eat their own. Despite that one inconvenience to you, however, their focus is not on the idiot they support, but rather on diminishing Democrats in any way they can.

does to participate here. I LOVE Boxer.

who would post something on this forum questioning the FACT Kerry is a war hero is NOT here for constructive purposes.

Your smear is not only unoriginal it's ludicrous. Kerry 'sold us to the diebold machines'?

If you're going to spew nonsense and try and whip up some divisive anger here... at least TRY and sound rational.

HAVING ONCE WRITTEN THIS PIECE ABOUT KERRY,

AS YOU TRIED TO SULLY KERRY'S RECORD
By XXXXXX XXXXXX-XXXXX
A/K/A FLOR DE HINOJOS


(“Be it in Afghanistan or Iraq, the
Bush Administration has a track record
of fixing election to produce the
winner it desires"
Alter Net's introduction to
Raul Mahajan's article,
"The Bush Definition of Democracy)


As you tried to sully Kerry’s record one more time, Kerry stood up for himself, did not allow you to sully his record one more time and showed you up for whom you really are.

As you, rigger of elections, peddler of lies, master of deceit, lord of manipulations came to the debates prepared to sell your bag full of lies, deceit, trickery and manipulations to the nation, the swift boat veteran so previously maligned by your minions and your own distortions of his record knew just how to maneuver his swift boat (aided perhaps, by his familiar brotherhood with truth) out of the murky, swampy waters laid for him by your shadowy smurkiness and your outrageous lies.

One by one, using truth and courage as his weapons, the swift boat veteran dismantled your lies against his record of service to this country, against the reasons why you invaded Iraq and against the reasons why you are holding on fast to Iraq.

There you stood times three. Tongue twisted and tongue tied, hardly able to mutter any coherent or transparently truthful answers to the swift boat veteran’s statements. In stark comparison, Kerry stood up straight like a man under fire, knowing where his boat was going (what his record is) and where his truth was leading him...and when not given time to respond to your belligerent attacks on him, he would smile, a gentleman and a statesman, and wait for the next question.

Your history of deceit on a national level began four years ago when your brother Jeb Bush, aided by his then Secretary of State Katherine Harris, and your family’s Squeaky Fromm better known as James Baker conspired with a treasonous Supreme Court to muzzle our votes and sit you at the Oval Office.

This time around you were not able to muzzle John Kerry like you muzzled our votes that were not counted, or the wave of dissent that has followed you since you were installed in the Oval Office. This time around, Kerry spoke like a leader whose truth radiated out to the nation and spooked your craven, arrogant soul, while you stood there, like scuttlebutt, uneasy, unfriendly, unprepared; despite the fact that the format for the debates was controlled by your father’s shill, James Baker, in the thirty two rules that Kerry had to accept before you gave him the chance to debate you!

This time around your game of control did not work.

Control, we now know, as perhaps we knew then, is your game. Control the dissenters; throw them in protest pens far away from you, like pigs, unworthy of the dignity of their voice, or better yet in jail cells from which the light of truth cannot reach those on the outside. Control truth. Deny reality as far and as wide as you can. Control the votes. Count only the ones that have your name on them.

Control the voting machines—put no paper trails in them so that no recount is possible when you steal yet another election. Here in Florida, soil of the first debate, Jeb Bush, his now Secretary of State Glenda Hood and his appointed Broward County Supervisor of Elections Brenda Snipes are playing your game. They are sullied by your sullied power grab. Their hands, like yours, are a stain on our Florida soil and on our Nation’s Constitution.

For you the debates were a game of control. Control the light of your truth or your deceit, whichever way you want to call it. Control the angles from which the cameras could show your clearly craven soul to the American electorate (as they did, despite your need to cover it up in darkness and smoke and mirrors). Control the television takes in which your face might speak more clearly than the words you might speak (as it has). Control the position of the podiums so that you might appear to have the same stature as John Kerry. Control, too, the takes in which your opponent’s expression may reveal the gentle light of truth, or the fragile light of freedom emanating from his soul (as it did) despite your attempts at hiding and manipulating it.

You may have controlled the stage, or who could attend this Triple High Theater Performance which your James Baker crafted for you. You may have left nothing to chance. You may have wanted to entomb the truth. You may have wanted to make yourself shine, or you may have wanted to wear your Emperor’s outfit. You may have wanted to hide your truly and authentic cowardly, dictatorial soul ... but,

I guess that when paired with a swift boat veteran who knew how to maneuver his boat.... truth would have none of that!

{I FEEL THAT I CAN CRITICIZE KERRY IF I WANT TO FOR WHAT I SEE AS HIS COMPLETE LACK OF STANDING UP FOR A GOOD VOTE RECOUNT FIGHT AND REALLY HAVE THE RIGHT TO QUESTION HIS COURAGE... it is his missing-in-the vote recount action that makes me question what the truth about him is. Kerry may have pulled some swift boat veteran out of the waters...but he certainly didn't do the same for us)...and i am not spewing up any divisive anger. i am stating my position on the kerry issue. i am glad you have yours.

but if you look deep into your heart, you will still see a good man, a man of integrity, a man who would make a GREAT President. Kerry did the best he could, and he continues to do so, but the fact is (as disappointing as it is) that we didn't have the proof it would take to turn things around, and Kerry knew that. We are not giving up though, and we ARE going to keep working to change our election process. He is still fighting for us, so I do hope you'll get back on board and see that he is still Kerry. He did NOT betray us, he did not fail us in any way... that's misdirected frustration and disappointment, that's all... to turn and blame the man we were all routing for. Can you imagine the frustration HE feels?

your hand in the fire for Kerry?

Yeah, because lobbying for health care, election tranparency, and slamming Condi and Rummy are such DESPICABLE things to do. Horrid.

Take yourself off the list, then, but don't whine to everyone about it. He's still fighting, and if you don't like how he's doing it, tough.

something. Something long term maybe. It may be his style he acquired as a prosecutor to stay mum until he's ready to drop the bombshell...
and this may take a while, too....he is not going to reveal his hand.

life in Viet Nam and then having the balls to stand up
to the government to reveal the atrocities occurring there.
When the complainers feel like whining (and I have to admit
I have whined a bit), all they have to ask is
"Ask not what your country has done for you,
Ask what YOU can do for your country."

What have YOU done for your country?

Kerry is a hero, period.

Unlike that thing currently squatting in OUR WH. :puke:

But I have know doubts about JFK, he is THE BEST we could have come up with in this hour of need...but alas WE failed him.

If I personally had an iota, of the sacrifice and dedicated public service JFK gave our country, to my credit, I'd be a mighty proud person being let alone a mighty proud American...

If I met him today, I probably couldn't help crying and saying to him:

"I am sorry I failed you, I am sorry we failed you..."


-max

that we failed our candidate. Why didn't we keep screaming after the
blatant vote rip-off in Florida in 2000??! We coulda and shoulda!
It's one thing to expect our leaders to lead us with our input and
another to blame them exclusively when things don't go our way, when
we are just sitting back and not making our wishes heard.

WE should never have let up the pressure after the blatant cheating of
the 2000 election in favor of *. If we had, Kerry would have been a
sure shot.

*YAWN*

What behavior are you talking about?

SO HORRIBLE.

speaking out against bush. and they are. loud and clear. and it was good to hear today.

I guess it took the third Parties with the help of the American public to make them grow up a little, by the way thank you once again Sen Barbara Boxer. It must be in the name, Boxer.

:kick:

good because getting our soldiers protected, and saving our democracy is hard work. Kerry needs fighters behind him now.

I took my name off of the DNC mailing list but not Kerry's or Edward's.

As far as I'm concerned, he remains a true American hero who is not afraid to voluntarily walk straight into terrifying situations (Vietnam and protests after wards), turn around to save a fallen comrade's life or investigate criminal activities within the government. Okay, he didn't win. NO DEMOCRAT could possibly have won with the fix in. They would not let that happen.

He did not "win" the presidency BUT HE IS NO LOSER!

Furthermore, he has more integrity in his little finger than the entire Bush administration possesses. I WILL vote for him again.

I believe eventually others will see this.

then just say "oops. sorry." -- I don't think so. Look at the way that all of this has played out -- If he had demanded all of Ohio be recounted - it wouldn't have mattered -- because of the Republicans making the rules. Even with a "full recount" of Ohio which was a sham because there were counties that did not have machine consensus to hand count consensus in the 3% counts. Kerry would have been "Gored" politically -- an attack of Fallujha scheduled the same week - just a sore loser, when our people are fighting, etc., etc.

Some things could have been handled differently for US to feel good maybe -- but he is not a stupid man. And I think there will be a lot of things "on record" (on film) that will be used against * and others in the months to come.

As a matter of fact, I just received an email from JK this am asking for me to sign his petition to have Rumsfeld removed from office.
He loves this country, and he's not about to see it destroyed by the likes of *co.

of their money went to the candidates. This is according to Dean's own pie chart.

Kerry is working for us. I don't care if anyone thinks that it's too late or not enough.

So what??

He is doing his job and I will support him to get health care for poor children, get armor for our troops and hold Rumfailed accountable.

Anything other than that is sour grapes.

Say what you want about his candidacy but the man is a good man. He is working for you NOW.

Kerry has worked for us for 20 years. After his questioning of Condi his skills are evident. I am proud to back him and I sure wish he was my Senator.

I believe he know what he is doing.

By the way, did you hear Ted Kennedy on Sunday? He mentioned that Kerry lost by 50 or 60 thousand votes. What does he know and what is he telling us? We heard over and over 118,000.

it was over 100K (at first) - Nationally it was supposed to be 3 million. Just wondering.

it is a tie. Then if one gets another vote, that candidate wins. So 50 to 60 thousand is about right in the way that the results got posted. Since the recount was so crooked, who knows how much either might have actually won by. If the recount had been conducted honestly, then much suspicion could have been removed. What is the point of cheating in the recount if Bush actually won?

Losing an election like that must be a crushing blow
even to a hardened politico.

The reaction to me looked like the events of someone who hadn't
even considered losing. There was no plan for that eventuality.
(More later in this post.)

I've since realized the leadership of the DNC live in an
insulated reality. Almost as bad as the RWers.

This awakening came for me when my parents went down
to the DNC HQ on the night before the election with
pizzas for the "volunteers". They were turned away.
There were only bought and paid for corporate party
workers there. No grass roots action... No harried
volunteers... and certainly no time for people like
my parents who've been staunch party members and workers
their whole lives.

I fault the DNC leadership... They don't seem to realize
the real pain and strife experienced under the current
administration on the little guys... US! It's only some big
f*cking sporting event to the leadership like the Superbowl
or World Series. They lose? No biggie, they still get paid like
the f*cking lawyers they are. Therefore, I withdrew my
membership in the DNC.

That was not an easy decision as I've been with the DNC and
had fought for them all of my life. But, if they weren't
going to wake up and change. I am.

If I'd been Sen. Kerry here's what I'd have done on the morning
of November 3... and for several days thereafter.

Scenario:

Fox News Flunky: "Mr. Uh... I mean Senator Kerry are you
going to concede yet?"

Senator Kerry: "Are they through counting the votes?"

Fox News Flunky: "Umm... I'll check. Mr. Rove, Mr. O'Dell
are you done yet? Ah, No."

Senator Kerry: "Well, I guess I won't concede yet then."

Rinse. Repeat as needed. Then after a couple of days let it
fade.

There's the view from where I stand anyway.

P.S. I'm still on Senator Kerry's mailing list and
the list of any other *real* person. The DNC money
pit can go suck an egg. ;)

We had paid workers in their offices.
We had college student leaders from the two largest universities in Milwaukee.
We had a corner of the room for the Seniors to organize.
We had a corner of the room for the Vets for Kerry.
We had a corner for the Hispanics for Kerry.
We had a corner for the GLBT group.

We had Kerry Travelers from California, Illinois, DC and probably others I can't think of.

The main office in Downtown Milwaukee got even crazier right after the first debate. Volunteers everywhere making phone calls, writing letters, canvassing and entering data. Towards the end we took over some large Union offices, and that became our main base GOTV week. I think the neighbors hated us. They had a special RV unit set up with Predictive calling stations, plus more calling stations inside.

Was this because we were battlegrounders? It sounds like the states that weren't focused on didn't have the greatest organization setup. We were grassroots galor. Any munchies gladly accepted by the way. I spent $200, $50 at a time, going down to KMart to load up any supplies I thought they could use down at HQ, plus drinks, cleaning supplies and snackies.

The Vets for Kerry made up their own signs as they got annoyed at the lack of signage until the end of the campaign. Beautiful corregated plastic signs paid for out of their own pockets. I mourn as much for those guys working so hard as for the country.

At least we went blue. Not by a ton, but we went blue. We're a big "Right to Life" state so that was a victory in and of itself.

So... I guess my experience with the DNC was different. And as soon as my taxes come in, I'm joining the DNC and going to the meetings of our local Dem party, mostly because they bothered to contact me (twice now, I'm impressed.)

...and both times it was a form letter asking for money...

My Dad, Brother, and Wife (who changed her registration from
Repub to Dem for this election, but, who's said she may change
back after seeing the DNC clownery) all feel the same way.

As I figure it, the Dem candiates are going to start with 35% or
more fewer active supporters than they've had.

Unless we see some *REAL* changes.

We're tired of being hung out to dry while they pick our
pockets.

BTW... Boxer is a good start.

Nuff said.

How he's returned from his trip armed with facts with which to challenge the shrubass administration, and is beginning to do it. I am completely convinced that this man cannot do anything right for some people. Minds are made up, don't confuse them with facts.

There is so much time spent bashing the guy, but if you see his actions at all, or pay attention at all, he is obviously armed with information garnered from talking to the world leaders, who perhaps are not quite as open with *, and is prepared for battle.

He spoke with military leaders, who perhaps aren't or can't be as open with the * administration, as well as with "regular" military people, who shrubass wouldn't bother taking the time to speak to, and knows their concerns. He made many of them public yesterday.

All I know is I'm staying on his mailing list. And, Barbara Boxer's, and anyone else who has asked for my backing in fighting this administration. Even if he didn't scream fraud and make an idiot of himself after the election. Even if he didn't fight evil with evil during his campaign.

I'm staying on it because I want to do whatever I can to fight the idiots who are in power - I want to know what each and every person who is going to dare to challenge * is up to - I want to be part of the fight.

Kerry ain't done! He's using his mailing list now to get grass roots support. He started with Electin Reform and now he's going after Rumsfeld.

I'm staying on the mailing list. Looks to me like this is gonna get VERY interesting!

handlers and no longer neutered. I'm staying on for the ride.

There was no way Kerry could have challenged and won. If we had proof positive of fraud in the time period allowed then there would have been a way. It wasn't there. There was no time for it to be there. Kerry's not stupid. If he had challenged it would have been political suicide. Just because many here wanted to delude themselves that Kerry had some secret plan to get the presidency they have themselves to blame. Kerry didn't let them down. They let themselves down with unrealistic expectations.

If we had cared enough as a people we would have followed up and insisted on repairing an unequal, unfair, election system that was wide open to fraud. We didn't. I didn't. We only have ourselves to blame for not fighting when the evidence there. We could have organized, demonstrated, and started to take our country back.

Instead we sat back to let our minority leaders wave their magic wand and fix it for us. With a Republican controlled Congress they were in effect impotent in the ability to make a change.

We self rightiously sit in judgement and examine and deplore the votes of our Senators and Representatives and ignore the whole picture, the reason for the vote, or their voting pattern. Our leaders in Congress have to compromise in order to get anything of value through. If we want less compromise then we need to work our butts off getting Dems into Congress.

Kerry is enormously qualified to be one of the best presidents in history. The Republican spin machine is so good and sophisticated that I find even some on DU buying into the defamation of his character and repeating the spin.

Until the infighting and feed frenzy stop and we start to work together for the good of the country we have nowhere to look to place the blame. It lies with us. We need to stand united, not divided.

We the people need to care enough to take our country back from the biggest threat its ever faced. We need to help formulate a strategy and get behind every Dem running for office. We need to spread the message and help educate others that for whatever reason aren't informed on the issue and are left to sort through the dung residue of the spin.

As another JFK said long ago with a change to make it applicable for us ... "Ask not what your Party can do for you, ask what you can do for your Party."

That's two. Up from one on the vote challenge!

Were gaining on them!

Watch out youse guys cuz here we come! :)

I suppose that means you won't be spending any more time on this forum, which is where most of the Kerry supporters share hopeful information?

Best of luck to 'ya.

group. We don't have to be like Republicans (GROUP THINK) and go along with what ever a phony like JOHN KERRY puts out. There is a place for me here, sorry.

Not liking John Kerry doesn't make me a Bush supporter, there is some middle ground!

particularly in a forum that supports Kerry, be prepared to hear comments from people who choose not to curl up into fetal position.

From another post that applies here, as well:

I would like to know -- specifically -- what more could Kerry do to ensure that every vote counted. He's already committed himself to do what he can to look into this. He didn't say that he was a wizard or a magician to achieve instantaneous results for those who are too impatient for allowing the process to unfold methodically in a civilized, intelligent manner.

Angry because Kerry lost? So am I. Angry because a life-long cheater & parasite wanted the presidency so badly that he had to steal two elections to get what he wanted (as he has had to do to achieve anything in life)? So am I. We deserve better. But I'm NOT going to take it out on Kerry.

Do you expect Kerry to run through the streets, wildly waving his arms through the air, screaming election fraud? Think about the consequences of shooting one's mouth off without the hard evidence to back it up. Or do you care? Kerry does; he's intelligent & he's doing everything right.

Sorry -- I have little patience with a whining, pity-me attitude. If "a ton of goodwill has been squandered" because Kerry won't throw away his dignity & credibility to satisfy those who like a good scrap or a good circus show, I could care less. It's the end result that matters. It takes time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=294104&mesg_id=294395

his earnest followers here.