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How offensive is destroying non-religious 'Christmas' cards?

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 08:05 AM
Original message
How offensive is destroying non-religious 'Christmas' cards?
In 2 recent British newspaper articles, I've seen the suggestion that the best thing to do with cards that bear, instead of the word 'Christmas', "Season's Greetings" or similar, is to throw them away, or burn them.

My rubbish bin is full of Christmas cards. I threw them there. No, I'm not suffering from an obsessive tidiness disorder. Well, maybe a bit, but that's not the reason that I have lobbed dozens of cards straight into the trash can. I'm no Scrooge, either. Not every card I'm sent gets dumped. Far from it. Many are kept as a source of great cheer.
...
The selection process is very precise. The discarded items have one thing in common: they are not Christmas cards at all, by which I mean, as well as having no Christian images, Nativity scenes etc, they don't even mention the "C" word. I'm afraid that "happy holidays" simply will not do.
...
In the United Kingdom, this time of year is a Christian festival — as it should be. It is part of our heritage. You don't have to be a fire-and-brimstone evangelist to respect a faith that still underpins traditional British values and institutions, even though much of its spiritual message was lost long ago in a fog of consumerism. Jettisoning Christmas-less cards is my tiny, almost certainly futile, gesture against the dark forces of political correctness. It's a swipe at those who would prefer to abolish Christmas altogether, in case it offends "minorities". Someone should tell them that, with only one in 15 Britons going to church on Sundays, Christians are a minority.

None of the Christmas-less cards that I have received came from a PC nutter. A few were from good friends and business acquaintances. But I rejected them anyway.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/12/08/do0801.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2006/12/08/ixopinion.html


There is a counter-action. The marvellously kitsch illuminations of private houses with entire confused scenes of Santa Claus, Bethlehem nativity and fairies are an unconscious public declaration that Christmas is not to be taken away. Growing congregations, especially in cathedrals, show a population that at long last realises the faith it has taken for granted is threatened by a loveless intellectual desert called secularism (offering "Season's Greetings" "Happy Holidays" and "Winterfest" - the best thing to do with such greetings is light the winter fire). Carols do not contain the best theology, but they express an accessible joy that can benefit us all.

· The Very Rev Colin Slee is the dean of Southwark

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1968143,00.html


OK, it's not quite on the scale of book burning, but writing about it in national newspapers, even in a light-hearted mood, seems so divisive and intolerant - and it's a senior Church of England clergyman advocating it. I wonder if they'd ever do that to someone's face - open a card they've been given, see it doesn't use the words 'Christmas', or a Bible scene on the front, and then chuck it straight in the bin. I can think of only one time when I've done something similar - when a Conservative election worker came to my house, and I accepted the proffered leaflet, to put it straight into the bin in front of him. I certainly meant that to be an insult - do these pair of people (and the support Jeff Randall apparently has) think it's really OK to tell their friends and colleagues "if it doesn't say Christmas, your greeting is worthless"?
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non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. Says a lot for the recipients' tolerance of their friends beliefs, no?
The Christian minority's possession order on the midwinter celebrations which have taken place across the world for time immemorial is really starting to get on my tit-end.

The Skin
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. Never fear
These cretins will do far more to destroy christmas than secular people might, on average.
Their real point is that if you are not particular to their brand of christianity, you aren't allowed to play at their game.

This same blind, selfish ideology has destroyed many belief systems in the past-or has at least marginalized them-and will do so this time.
It is pretty funny to watch them destroy their own game, in order to prevent others from playing at it and then blame those others for something they do, themselves.

Don't know if it's small-town orthodoxy that promotes such limited awareness or blind, selfish ideology, but it will be effective, nonetheless.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. Recycle!
I never keep greeting cards of any kind, but religious themed cards go into the recycle bin faster than any. I don't see why it is a problem for the xtians to do what I've been doing for years. What are they supposed to do with them?
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TexasProgresive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I don't think the Very Rev Colin Slee
keeps Christmas cards forever but throws out upon receipt those that are secular. Many people display cards received during the season. We pin them on a curtain that's on our front door. He probably displays the religious cards.

I think this "Very Rev" is a small minded mean little person. I don't know what's got all these people in a twit about Christmas. Seasons Greetings and Happy Holidays and so forth have be used the whole of my 56 years and it is just recently that these idiots get their bowels in an uproar. A few years ago many of the right wing Christian fanatics were railing against Christmas as a pagan festival with a bit of Christian paint on it. Now they are at the other extreme. Go figure.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. And I throw out all cards that are religious
Does that make me a "small minded mean little person"?

I didn't realize that there was a rule of etiquette saying that greeting cards must be preserved for some particular length of time. Please enlighten me on the length of time and the nature of the preservation.

Since I do not celebrate a winter holiday, why am I expected to keep or display someone else's winter holiday greetings. I accept them graciously, then I ditch them. Likewise the rev. ditches the winter holiday greetings that don't apply to his celebration. Why should he be expected to keep or display them when they do not apply to his celebration?
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non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I keep the religious cards.
Some of them are quite pretty, and I've always enjoyed a good story.

The Skin
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. It's a re-run
It may have been a good story once, but I know how it ends. I won't spoil it all for you, but don't be surprised if the good guys win.
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non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Holding my breath !!!!!!!
The Skin
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I'll give you a hint
That guy, Joseph, is not really the father, but he is so open minded that he doesn't mind someone else screwing his wife because that someone else is. . . . .
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non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. ...... James Baker??????
The Skin
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. The movie will be out soon
If you are too lazy to read the book. (slacker)
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non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. Cool! Does it have plenty of BDSM like the last Christian movie I saw?
The Passion of Bill Tarentino, or whatever it was called ...

The Skin
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Nope, sorry.
It is just sexual promiscuity. Proving once again that "abstinence only" doesn't work! That's how those Hollywood Liberals slip their message into all the media outlets. It also promotes gun control--Joseph didn't kill anyone over the promiscuity because he didn't have a gun. Those sneaky Hollywood liberals never give up! I suspect that in the next version they will cut out the incense because of the "second hand smoke"!
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non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. That Herod had a pretty sound zero tolerance stance on terrorism, though ....
... if they'd killed all the First Born in Saudi, then there'd be no Osama bin Laden..

The Skin
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. People normally keep them until after the New Year
Since the 'season' extends until then - either because of the secular public holiday on New Year's Day, or for the 12 days of Christmas.

Yes, I'd say throwing out the cards you get with religious themes at once is divisive of you.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. So even though I don't celebrate a winter holiday
Edited on Sat Dec-09-06 10:05 AM by cosmik debris
I am expected to conform to the practices of those who do celebrate a winter holiday? That seems awfully arrogant to me.

I will not be drawn into the xmas celebration no matter who sends me a card or what the nature of that card may be. If you believe it is divisive to opt out of other people's holiday, then I suppose you celebrate all holidays of all people????
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. I wouldn't throw away some faster than others
but you do: "religious themed cards go into the recycle bin faster than any". That's what seems divisive to me.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. OK, I'm sorry
I had no idea that by keeping the joke cards ten minutes longer than the religious cards I was rendering asunder the fabric of society. I will cease and desist right away.
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. Ah Rev, my holiday cards are an expression of my beliefs about
the season, specifically renewing light, hope, peace and community. Sorry if you find those beliefs offensive. I'm not a Christian; so pardon me, but a Christian message from me would be, mmmm, hypocritical.

By the way, Jesus was born, lived and died a Jew. Would you toss a Happy Chanukah greeting from him?
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Ravy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
6. We should fight them over there, so we don't have to fight them over here. nt
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. Tossing the card seems like a reasonable reaction - sending a Christian a card
that does not say enjoy your festival is just sending out

an advertisement for your business,

or it is send out an advertisement for your own, different, belief system.

For the atheist to show anger that the atheist belief system is rejected because of the card toss is rather amusing, given the daily postings in DU's Religion forum by those individuals.
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non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. So, as a non-Christian at Christmas, you'd advise me to take Christians ...
... off my Christmas card list, in case I insult them!

NOW I remember why I left the Church .... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

The Skin
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. Amazing lack of reading comprehension - when "appropriate to the person" gets back
into your world view, get back to me.
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non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. ... And when sarcasm comes back into fashion, you'll be king of cool!
The Skin
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Gads, you never disappoint
That you can reach into a couple of dyspeptic rants about political correctness, secularism, multiculturism, and pull out "the atheist belief system" is a marvel. Send me a card and it'll get a center space on my coffee table.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Do you really imagine we atheists are busy tossing our friends' cards in the bin
if they have a nativity scene on them, or mention the word 'Christmas'? I'm certainly not, and I don't think anyone I know is. "Season's Greetings" - what 'belief system' is that? It's a very general one that people say 'hi' to friends they may not be in touch with, once a year. Is sending a birthday card an advertisement for a belief system?

You're weird.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. The joy of the season - if there is one for you-be with you Muriel- otherwise -Season's Greetings -
The inability to use logic by those rational athiests never ceases to amaze!

If your friends do not communicate with you except once a year via "Christmas" cards, you may want to work on those friendships.

And no - a birthday card is not an advertisement for a belief system -

A silly - but expected - question, Muriel.

Have a great Holiday season! :-)
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. Any reason why a birthday card isn't an ad, but a Christmas card is one?
Edited on Sat Dec-09-06 11:14 AM by muriel_volestrangler
If you expected the question, you must have some reasoning for your answer. Show us the logic you're filled with.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. In my world I do not get insincere birthday cards - but you do have a point - a birthday card from
McDonald's or Brigham's Ice Cream, which I do not get but which my grandkids get each year, is just as insincere as a Seasons Greetings card from am atheist or a Happy Holidays from your car dealership at Christmas. All of which get tossed by me. I enjoy letters and emails from everyone - and that includes those who are atheist. But I do not enjoy insincerity.

But I should have realized that "relationship management" as taught in today's colleges must have a course on how to get in someones face - and that the methods would include Birthday cards as well as Christmas cards. My error.

I just see no point in pretending that you are celebrating a "season" or a "holiday" which you spend 24/7/365 on DU putting down. Not that it is bad to send "season" or "holiday" cards to those who you know are Christians if the point is to get in their face with the message that you are not a Christian. Evangelical Atheists proselytizing for their faith via a card is just as honorable as proselytizing for their faith via DU.

I stand corrected.
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non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. Boy! If there were awards for smug sarcasm, you'd get a Smug Sarcasm Award!!!
No shit.

The Skin
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
34. I keep all cards until they all go into the trash bin, at the end of the season....
I don't care what type of greeting people give me. I would not deem any "unworthy" to hold onto.

The people who advocate getting rid of some friends cards because the lack of Christmas or the inclusion of Christmas exist on the card are assholes. People who would brag about doing so? Rude!
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
11. childish nonsense . . . there are far more important things to worry about . . .
(neat avatar, btw . . . I still have that album on vinyl) . . .
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
14. I wonder how he would feel about Solstice cards?
That is far more ancient and far more English than this new-fangled "Christmas." I mean, really: modern English Christmas was largely an invention of Charles Dickens, and Christmas cards themselves were the invention of stationers during the reign of Queen Victoria!

Methinks the priest is a hypocritical Sadducee in disguise.
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
25. Hey, I'm just happy Christians are burning cards, and not me.
Edited on Sat Dec-09-06 11:29 AM by Evoman
Its about time that christians ethically graduated to burning just thing that are not alive. Cards are a waste of money and resources anyways. Might as well use them to start a nice fire.

(btw...I'm just kidding, christians..I love you all).
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non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. Hey, I love Christians too .. with fava beans and a good chianti ..
Atheists! (Jack Sparrow shrug)

The Skin
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More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
31. He only respects his friends if they submit to his non-negotiable requirements for expressing love.
Edited on Sat Dec-09-06 11:45 AM by Heaven and Earth
Soon he will have no friends left. Then he won't have to worry about getting non-conforming greeting cards ever again. Problem solved.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
35. Sounds like an extreme case of cranial rectal intersection
This guy doesn't deserve the friends he has. If they have the heart to tolerate his prejudice they are much better people than him.
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sarge43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
36. Ooops, looks like the WH Christmas card will land in the Rev's
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silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
37. Just another hateful crackpot.
Getting far more attention than he deserves. :eyes:
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
39. Pretty offensive
I take sentiments like greeting cards in the sentiment they were intended. I would find it equally offensive if someone was telling their friends and colleagues "if it says Christmas, your greeting is worthless."
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Printer70 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
41. Ummm....
Does this author expect people to keep a written record of the religious affiliation of all their friends and send out the card with the precise message accordingly. That if you don't send a Kwanza card to one friend he'll throw it out, or if you don't send a Happy Hanukah card to a Jewish friend, he'll throw it out. I know I don't keep track of my friends religion. Thats why I send everyone a Happy Hollidays card. How am I supposed to know which of my friends are Christian, or practicing Christians, and send the right card while avoiding those who are non-Christian.
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Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-09-06 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
42. Hell, I throw them all away without even opening just because
the majority of them are going to be filled with rubbish.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
43. There is no "War on Christmas"
Just a bunch of selfish small-minded people who think that their holiday is the only one that should be acknowledged, and throw all forms of tantrums when it is not the only one acknowledged.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
44. heh - makes me wonder if anyone has done that with ours.
Not that we send cards every year, but when we do we find something with a "peace" theme. Seems appropriate to me.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
45. Doesnt bother me...
..Those who do Burn Cards that are secular or something different from their beliefs, are ungreatful bastards. That would also be a display of intolerance on their part.
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Ready4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-10-06 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
46. Wonder if he trashes his own Birthday cards, too?
Unless they refer to the birth of his Lord and Savior, of course.

Howabout anniversary cards? I'm willing to be 90% of those are blasphemous missives.

Graduation announcements? No mention of any future "graduation" to heaven for the student, most times I bet.

This guy is a pure example of "if they aren't celibrating MY holiday, in MY way, screw 'em!"

Christ would cry.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
47. Wow, there's some...
Christian love and tolerance for you.
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