Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Letter puts to rest Einstein's belief.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU
 
edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 08:01 AM
Original message
Letter puts to rest Einstein's belief.
Too often I have heard believers quote Einstein about God and religion. Trying to invoke "the smartest guy of the 20th Century" to affirm their position on the matter.
I think this letter should clear up what he actually believed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/14/einstein-letter-belief-in_n_101626.html

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."


BTW, "God does not play dice." was not meant literally.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ForeignSpectator Donating Member (970 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. You beat me to it...
Belief in God in "childish superstition".

That is a pretty clear statement and will hopefully stop religious fanatics trying to invoke "the smartest guy of the 20th century".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Not when they still try to pull the
"Darwin converted on his deathbed" scam. No matter how many times you show them the testemonial from his daughter (who took care of her father in his last days) that it never happened, they wait a bit...hoping you'll forget you showed them evidence to the contrary...and then pull it out again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. I have to admit, I have heard information contrary to this post.
I just plugged in Einstein and God and found this. The contrary information that I had read several years ago dealt with the atomic bomb. It was said that when Einstein created the Atomic bomb, something he regreated, he started a belief in God.

Later in life in a speech delivered in Berlin, he gave this illuminating account of himself:

Although I am a typical loner in daily life, my consciousness of belonging to the invisible community of those who strive for truth, beauty, and justice has preserved me from feeling isolated. The most beautiful and deepest experience a man can have is the sense of the mysterious. It is the underlying principle of religion as well as all serious endeavour in art and science. He who never had this experience seems to me, if not dead, then at least blind. To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is something that our mind cannot grasp and whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly and as a feeble reflection, this is religiousness. In this sense I am religious. To me it suffices to wonder at these secrets and to attempt humbly to grasp with my mind a mere image of the lofty structure of all that is there. 5 http://www.ctinquiry.org/publications/reflections_volume_1/torrance.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. That sounds
like a scientist explain how the sense of wonder and mystery, that many attribute to religion, can be found in the pursuit of science. I infer from that this, that rather than confirming religion, he is disputing traditional religion's monopoly of the mysterious.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Gauger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-17-08 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Einstein did not create the atomic bomb.
The men in charge of that project were J. Robert Oppenheimer and Edward Teller. Einstein contributed no work to the Manhattan Project.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uberllama42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-17-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. The Project would not have happened if Einstein had not pushed for it
He was convinced that the Germans were on the verge of developing the bomb, so he convinced FDR to start the project. He still felt responsible for unleashing that kind of destruction on humanity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uberllama42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-17-08 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. Who cares what Einstein thought?
Quoting Einstein to support one's own ideas about God or whatever other irrational nonsense is nothing more than an appeal to authority.

It's dishonest, too. It was known long before this letter was published that Einstein did not believe in a personal God or any other supernatural entity. He was very explicit about that fact throughout his life. He was constantly frustrated that some people didn't understand that he used the word "God" as a metaphor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-17-08 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. But it's persuasive.
At least to your average individual. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-19-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Oh the irony.
You can cut it with a knife.

"Quoting Einstein to support one's own ideas about God or whatever other irrational nonsense is nothing more than an appeal to authority."

Hah. NOW you say that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. That's why you shouldn't use the word
I hate arguments about semantics and I don't understand the hubbub about "labels", but I do at least get that if you use the word God it's going to be interpreted by most people in terms of monotheistic religion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. Did Einstein assume that if there is a God, then the Bible
is a reliable source of information about God?

That seems to be an odd assumption. There are references to Egypt in the Bible. Does it follow that either there was no such country when the Bible was written or the Bible is a source of reliable historical information about ancient Egypt?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jjray7 Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
11. there is more to it
>>Trying to invoke "the smartest guy of the 20th Century" to affirm their position on the matter.<<

This would also include atheists who wish to cite Einstein in support of their position. If you wish to read the entire text of the letter (translated to english), it is here:
http://www.relativitybook.com/resources/Einstein_religion.html

I think Einstein believed in an intelligent creator who set the process of the universe in motion then left it on autopilot. His concept of God as the architect of the universe who plays no roll in its continuing operations does not mesh with western concepts of God. Does he believe in the God of Judaism and Christianity? No. Did he believe in a god? Yes. And he did literally mean "God does not play dice." But these words meant something different to him than one of the Judeo / Christian faith.

Please see quote from Time article on Eistein and faith:
"Einstein did, however, retain from his childhood religious phase a profound faith in, and reverence for, the harmony and beauty of what he called the mind of God as it was expressed in the creation of the universe and its laws. * * * (Einstein is quoted as responding when asked if he was religious,) 'Yes, you can call it that," Einstein replied calmly. "Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible laws and connections, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in fact, religious.'"
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1607298,00.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I don't believe that's the entire text of the letter.
Edited on Thu May-22-08 11:22 AM by Jim__
The ellipses (in the letter I see when I click on your link) indicate that something has been omitted.

Maybe the rest of the letter is on another topic ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jjray7 Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-22-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. true
It is only the second page but that is all that survived. No one has page 1. For whatever reason, it was disgarded.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 13th 2024, 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC