Enlightenment does not occur in a vacuum. Yes or no?

I see my becoming an Atheist from my previous belief of Christianity as Enlightenment. As an Atheist, this is my goal for society. Complete, utter, enlightenment. The Scientific Method for all measures of reality.

And, I know holding this belief - that said enlightenment cannot occur in a vacuum. Without the "marketplace of ideas" - this enlightenment will never happen.

I came to atheism by deleting all the notions that didn't make sense. I did not need competing ideas, I just needed a sharp Occam's Razor.

When you take away all the ideas that don't make sense, and only believe the remaining ones, You will be an atheist by default.

Or so I believe. :)

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.

But without said marketplace, you can never trust the evidence.

No one is born religious. Atheism is the default position. Some people are brainwashed into accepting religious beliefs (some of us never do accept them). Discarding/denouncing the results of brainwashing doesn't amount to an extraordinary claim, and doesn't require any proof at all. The onus is on the brainwashers to provide proof (which they've certainly never been able to do in my experience).

But maybe fellow DU'er Orrex can tell us...VROOM!!!:rofl:

Kirbys!

From what you stated, it appears to me that you mean total understanding of all things using the Scientific Method. Is that the case? If so, then my answer would be that Enlightenment never comes, because there will never be a total understanding of all things. I know of no scientist that believes this will ever happen, as many hypothesize that space is infinite.

As for me, I think that all belief systems, religious and scientific, are in a state of evolution and change. It appears to be the nature of things to shatter the ideals and truths posed by previous individuals (saints and prophets on the religious side, scientists and explorers on the scientific side) as greater understanding is achieved. We get nearer to Enlightenment, but it always remains a few steps away.

...but it lasts only a fraction of a second, followed by a very messy explosive decompression.

:rofl:

analyze, reject or confirm ideas that are generally accepted in the dominant environment in which a person happen to be, then enlightenment can come to a reasonable person at any time.

The ability to question, reason and doubt can be taught by a teacher with the ability and knowledge to teach it and can be learned by a student with the mental capacity to learn it, but the ability to achieve enlightenment is innate in some children. Some children by nature primarily analyze the ideas and experiences that are thrust upon them just as others primarily experience reality through their feelings or physical senses. People with analytical gifts don't need teachers although their gifts will develop better if nurtured by good teachers (and without a teacher but with access to a marketplace of ideas).

Children with the gift of the ability to analyze and reason independently just need to be allowed or to persuade themselves that they are allowed to think for themselves. So, yes, enlightenment is less common in the absence of a marketplace of ideas, but not impossible. Those who become enlightened in societies that are intolerant of diverse ideas tend to be smart enough to keep their enlightened thoughts to themselves.

;)

and poverty, then suddenly seeing it and changing his life to become the figure we know him as.

In that construction at least, the vacuum was his living in a vacuum of privilege, unexposed to suffering. His awakening appears to occur when he leaves the vacuum.