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Are you an iconoclast? The ten commandments consist of how many commandments?

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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:30 PM
Original message
Are you an iconoclast? The ten commandments consist of how many commandments?
Edited on Tue May-31-11 01:38 PM by Boojatta
I count nine.

Below is the King James Version, simplified a bit by me.

(Exodus 20:1 to 20:17, but numbered one to nine by me.)

1. You aren't to have any other gods before me; and you aren't to serve any gods other than me.

I think that the prohibition against "graven images" is simply part of this. That's why I count a total of nine rather than ten.

2. Don't take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.

3. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates.

4. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

5. Thou shalt not kill.

6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

7. Thou shalt not steal

8. Thou shalt not bear false witness against anybody.

9. Thou shalt not covet.

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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fifteen
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. feh.
Edited on Tue May-31-11 01:37 PM by GodlessBiker
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Are you an iconoclast?
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I don't attack cherished beliefs, I just find them boring.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. "You are to have other gods before me;"
:wow:
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rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. Somebody beat you to it.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. 613 nt
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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. One.
1. Treat other beings honorably and with respect.

That covers them all.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Honorably?
Thought experiment:

Somebody, in some year BC, finds in the Middle East a political leader who wasn't in the habit of giving servants one day of rest per week. Said person tells the political leader that the political leader isn't an honorable person. What would be the most likely outcome?
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. the Golden Rule
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. From the Torah
1. Belief in G-d
This category is derived from the declaration in Ex. 20:2 beginning, "I am the L-rd, your G-d..."

2. Prohibition of Improper Worship
This category is derived from Ex. 20:3-6, beginning, "You shall not have other gods..." It encompasses within it the prohibition against the worship of other gods as well as the prohibition of improper forms of worship of the one true G-d, such as worshiping G-d through an idol.

3. Prohibition of Oaths
This category is derived from Ex. 20:7, beginning, "You shall not take the name of the L-rd your G-d in vain..." This includes prohibitions against perjury, breaking or delaying the performance of vows or promises, and speaking G-d's name or swearing unnecessarily.

4. Observance of Sacred Times
This category is derived from Ex. 20:8-11, beginning, "Remember the Sabbath day..." It encompasses all mitzvot related to Shabbat, holidays, or other sacred time.

5. Respect for Parents and Teachers
This category is derived from Ex. 20:12, beginning, "Honor your father and mother..."

6. Prohibition of Physically Harming a Person
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not murder."

7. Prohibition of Sexual Immorality
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not commit adultery."

8. Prohibition of Theft
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not steal." It includes within it both outright robbery as well as various forms of theft by deception and unethical business practices. It also includes kidnapping, which is essentially "stealing" a person.

9. Prohibition of Harming a Person through Speech
This category is derived from Ex. 20:13, saying, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." It includes all forms of lashon ha-ra (sins relating to speech).

10. Prohibition of Coveting
This category is derived from Ex. 20:14, beginning, "You shall not covet your neighbor's house..."
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. Two. 1) Love God 2)Love your neighbor Mark 12:28-31.
One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these." (NIV, Mark 12:28-31).


Follow those and you don't need the 10 Commandments
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Alternatively,
follow those perfectly and you're doing the law and the prophets as intended, without the need for explicit implementation of the strictures.

It's rather like good Renaissance music: If you're a truly gifted writer, you don't get to the end and realize that you have to break the rules to make it all work out, or start over. You get to the end and it's all worked out just fine.
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Still Blue in PDX Donating Member (633 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
12. An it harm none, do as you will. nt
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is a Protestant list.
The Catholic version of the Ten Suggestions doesn't list the "graven images" thing. But it has two covets: neighbor's wife and neighbor's goods.

And the wife one is #9, so "69" has an added sexual meaning for Catholics.

Of course, it's the "no graven images" people who demand to have graven images of their version of the Ten Suggestions placed on public property.
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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Really? Do you think that given the prompt "What are the ten commandments?"
Edited on Tue May-31-11 06:16 PM by Boojatta
(and no help), they're likely to include "no graven images" in their responses?

Of course, it's the "no graven images" people who demand to have graven images of their version of the Ten Suggestions placed on public property.

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. Lessee. There's the one about not acting like an adult, and the one about humoring your parents. Hmm
Gimme a minute here ...
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. Very tricky question - Exodus 34:10-28 - the bit which the author calls "the ten commandments"
Edited on Tue May-31-11 07:40 PM by muriel_volestrangler
(rather than the one which later editors starting calling "the ten commandments") New International version:

Then the LORD said: “I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the LORD, will do for you. Obey what I command you today. I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites.(1)Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles. Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

“Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same.

(2) “Do not make any idols.

(3) “Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.

(4) “The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons.

(5) “No one is to appear before me empty-handed.

(6) “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest.

(7) “Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year. Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign LORD, the God of Israel. I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times each year to appear before the LORD your God.

(8) “Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Festival remain until morning.

(9) “Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the LORD your God.

(10) “Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.”

Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.


I've put in my suggestions for how to make them add up to ten; one might say that "Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God" is a separate commandment, but it is sandwiched by 2 "do not make a treaty" sections, so maybe that's all 1. One might say "break down their altars" is a commandment in its own right, too - interesting that possibly the first of the 10 commandments is at direct odds with the American First Amendment. Perhaps (5) is the last part of (4). It's a bit vague, otherwise.

However, it's notable this is about conquest, ethnic cleansing, and purity of religious ceremony. None of these wishy-washy things about not killing, stealing or bearing false witness - you know, the kind of things you might call liberal.

The thing is, those given in Exodus 20 are just the first in a long series of commandments from Exodus 20 to Exodus 23. Then God tells Moses "we'll write these down, for easy reference" , and then there's a lot of blueprints for the Ark of the Covenant, fashion tips for the well-dressed priest, Abattoir 101 and a handy recipe for a fresh-smelling house viewing sacrifice session, a basic taxation guide, and then it says this covenant law was on 2 tablets - nothing saying this stopped at the "no coveting" one.

Since there was so much of this - not a succinct "ten orders for moral living", it took so long that the Israelites broke the 'no idols' rule while they were waiting (before they'd had it explicitly said to them). And so Moses broke the original 2 tablets in a huff, gathered a posse, and killed 3000 pour encourager les autres. And commended the posse on a massacre well done. Then God followed up with a quick plague, just as a reminder of whose in charge of infectious diseases. Then He said "OK, we'll write those 2 tablets again" - and you get the Exodus 34 list. So it seems the important 10 Commandments are these religious purity/ethnic cleansing ones.

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dimbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-31-11 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. How many slices can you get from a 12 inch pizza? n/t
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