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Anders Behring Breivik: Christian terrorist? Right-wing extremist? Madman?

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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 11:26 AM
Original message
Anders Behring Breivik: Christian terrorist? Right-wing extremist? Madman?
When news broke about the bombing in Olso, many commentators assumed links with Islamic extremism. When reports came of the massacre on Utøya island, perpetrated by a “tall, blonde, Nordic, man,” speculation quieted down until Anders Behring Breivik was identified. News reports first described Breivik as a “Christian terrorist,” largely on the basis of his Facebook profile and his postings to Christian fundamentalist Web sites. After his manifesto became public, Breivik was characterized as a “right-wing extremist.” To most, the Christian terrorist/right-wing extremist distinction makes little real difference: Only a madman could engage in such wanton killing.

Amid summaries of the 1500 page manifesto, Breivik’s religious beliefs are set in the context of an explicitly political agenda: his vision of a Christian Europe is predicated on the expulsion of Muslims to stem the tide of “Islamization” and “multiculturalism.” When it comes to Muslims themselves, Breivik portrays them as cunning enemies by selectively, and superficially, referencing Islamic discussions of naskh (abrogation), taqiyya (dissimulation), and jihad (exertion). As many commentators have already pointed out, the real template for the manifesto seems to be the writings of Unabomber Theodore Kaczynski. The religious content of the manifesto, especially its references to Christianity, is a hodge-podge, a series of bizarre after-thoughts buttressing Breivik’s xenophobic and paranoid worldview.

Breivik calls himself a “cultural Christian.” Religious Christians, he observes, have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, which he himself does not have. For Breivik, “Christendom” is a vehicle for preserving European self-identity and is not necessarily opposed to elements of “paganism” such as Breivik’s own “Odnistic/Norse” heritage, even though the cross, he argues, has a greater symbolic power than Thor’s hammer, Mjölnir. In spite of this, the initiation ceremony Breivik envisages for “Knights Templar” has no cross, only a candle, sword, skull.

The Christian history that Breivik seeks to reenact is not the passion of Jesus Christ, but the narrative of the Crusades. Breivik rhapsodizes about battles and lists the indulgences promises to Crusaders by Popes Urban II and Innocent III. Although he wishes that Benedict XVI would call Christendom to crusade, Breivik argues that the Roman Pontiff has been too accommodating to Islam and has thus betrayed the Church and Europe as a whole. The new Crusade will thus have to be initiated outside the authority of decadent institutional churches. Breivik’s description of how this Crusade will transpire has exaggerated contours of a computer game-it’s Valhalla via Warcraft.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-faith/post/christian-terrorist-madman-how-do-we-understand-anders-behring-breivik/2011/07/25/gIQA7c6XYI_blog.html
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mysuzuki2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. How about just "asshole"
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Works for me.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Agreed.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Anybody who blows up and shoots strangers qualifies instantly as a wacko.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. I seem to recall he was called a terrorist until it came out that he was a right-wing Christian. n/t
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. Everyone knows he wasn't a TRUE Scotsman.
Er, Christian.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's astounding just how quickly Christian apologists moved to label him as not a true xtiian.
Edited on Mon Jul-25-11 01:37 PM by cleanhippie
:shrug:
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. It's astounding how selectively people with an agenda read facts.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes, the OP is definitely proof of that!
Thanks, rug!
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Again, agreed. It's is plainly obvious how selectively you read facts to fit your agenda.
But we already know that.

Perhaps if you attempted to make a point when you post an article, you could cease with arrogant condescension and personal attacks. Then we could possibly discuss just whatever it is your point is supposed to be.


Wait. That's been tried, and all of your points have been refuted, time and time again. This tactic is all you seem to have left. How sad that is.
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Oh, snap! LOL!
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Leontius Donating Member (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Could you cite some of those apologists comments.
I haven't followed this story that closely so anything factual you could add would be helpful.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Sure. Nearly every story that has come out about it since it was revealed the terrorist was a xtian.
It's everywhere.


And I'm on my iPhone so it's a PIA to post links.
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Leontius Donating Member (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. So you got nothing , thanks.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Oh FFS. Are you really that obtuse?
This like saying "so you are unable to post any links that state the sky is blue, so you got nothing."

But no one expects anything less from the apologists.
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Leontius Donating Member (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Then post something just one would be better than nothing
surely you can remember something, some article, some news headline, something you heard on the radio or on tv, you did say they're everywhere. Doesn't have to be a link just a source to back up what you claim not even the exact quote just what you remember and where you saw or heard it.
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frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. A small sampling for
Edited on Mon Jul-25-11 07:03 PM by frogmarch
your viewing pleasure:

While I cannot know the inner heart of this man and his relationship to God, I can say without hesitation that his actions reveal a man who is anything but a true Christian.
http://www.electionprojection.com/blog/archives/jul11/tragedy_in_norway_not_the_fruits_of_a_true_christian_072311.php
~~
As he and Get Religion point out, Breivik’s ties to Freemasonry and desire for Christianity to return to Roman Catholicism do not fit with the traditional beliefs of true Christian fundamentalists.
http://blog.chron.com/believeitornot/2011/07/was-the-norway-attacker-a-christian-terrorist/
~~
“When I was out in Norway,” he said, “the people there thought they were Christian because they were Norwegian.” Many people in the so-called “Christian nation,” he says, claim the faith but haven't necessarily been genuinely converted.

"A true Christian would not go and ... shoot people in a camp or blow up buildings,” he said. “That's not what a Christian does. So just because a man claims to be a Christian, or even believes that he is a Christian, does not necessarily make him so."
http://www.bahamasissues.com/showthread.php?t=34520&p=589374
~~

References to more “no true Scotsman” quotes can be found here: http://homebrewedtheology.com/would-anders-breivik-be-a-tea-partier.php

Google for even more.

You're welcome.


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Leontius Donating Member (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Thanks, This is a helpful start
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Truth is elusive to those who refuse to see it with both eyes wide. n/t
Edited on Mon Jul-25-11 06:48 PM by laconicsax
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Leontius Donating Member (380 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. How about you then you got anything that shows
they're everywhere. They could be for all I know I've only seen this one Post story and a couple of tv reports that's it. The claim was not made by me so the burden of proof is not mine.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. frogmarch did your homework for you. n/t
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. Brevik himself does that.
n/t
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. Clearly.
"I consider myself to be 100 percent Christian."
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westerebus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. Yes, Yes and possibly.
The terrorist actions committed by Breivik a right wing christian extremist don't necessarily qualify as a the actions of a "madman" despite their horrendous nature. I think Breivik is closer in nature and actions to the Oklahoma bomber Tim McVeigh than to the Unabomber Ted Kaczynski.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-25-11 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. (all three)
I reject the premise of the title that the three options are mutually exclusive, although accounts of the shooting depict someone who was thinking clearly, so madman may not be applicable.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-26-11 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
25. all 3. nt.
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
26. Breivik: "I am first and foremost a man of logic. "
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-27-11 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. From your link:
Anders Breivik may have been a bad Christian, perhaps the worst one can imagine, as well as a confused man who cherry-picked from Scripture and history to justify his un-Christian form of Christianity.

But proof-texting the Bible and using faith to rationalize one's favorite political and cultural views is something most believers -- Jewish, Muslim and Christian -- are guilty of at one time or another. So kicking Breivik out of Christianity in the end might be an ominous sign for all Christians.
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