Put the 'Christ' back in Christianity!

Right-wing religious Republicans have taken the 'christ' out of christianity. There is no room for the New Testament in the materialistic, secular, bible-worshipping blasphemy of an ignorant minority who seek to undermine Christianity by promoting the Old Testament vision of a bloodthirsty deity who takes sides in national disputes. I am pissed. Now hear this, America: Put the 'christ' back in Christianity!

AMEN!

W may proclaim Christ as a great philosopher, then he put him in the garbage can and sealed the lid.

W was only a "Christian" while he was deceiving the masses. As soon as he stole his first election, his "Christianity" was immediately disposed of.

When have you heard him talk about his so-called faith since he was running in 2000? It was pure manipulation. Watch the films if you can "God in the White House" and "With God on Our Side." I believe one of these films was on PBS sometime last year. It's a great film and shows how the republicans use the fundie votes just for that purpose. They could care less about religion.

rather than New Testament and Old Testament. Lutherans stress the ability to distiguish between the Law and Gospel as being crucial to the proper application of Christian principles.

For those not familiar with this terminology: Law refers to the rules, Gospel refers to the promises of forgiveness and reconciliation with God.

The law smites us, for we cannot live up to it. The Gospel proclaims the love of God for us despite our imperfection.

very good!

As Jimmy Carter put it! Bush's hypocrisy is more than a religious issue, its a matter of misrepresentation of values. If he claimed to be a buddhist or anything it would be just as bad.

Isn't the first quote an instruction to sheath your sword (i.e. a warning that those who live by the sword, die by the sword)?

Although I agree with your main point to a certain extent. The Abrahamic religions do have quite a lot of violence in them, but they're not exclusively about violence, most of the message is about peace and compassion - however the fundamentalists seem to ignore those parts.

Read to Matthew 10:42 and it will make sense (as not advocating war, but the unfortunate division of families as people take up the cross, etc)

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of Christs gentle, forgiving, treat others as yourself- not 'revenge' no tit for tat 'eye for eye' that has divided many of us who say war is not the answer, and never was- from those we love, and have called friend or 'brother'-

I've lost family and a whole community of friends because I don't believe violence is the way to solve problems- And because I believe loving my country doesn't mean glossing over it's glaring errors- or selfish actions- rather, admiting them, owning them and stopping them.

People who try and make Jesus out to be a raging vengance filled 'right-wing- puppet don't know how far from the truth they are- Look at his life- where did he advocate greed, self-righteous pomposity- pre-occupation with sex, and the 'sins' of others? He said spread the 'good news'-
He didn't wait for people to 'earn' his healing, and love- he offered it freely, and with compassion- saving his frustration and anger for those who oppressed others, while living lives of abundance, and hyprocricy-

YES- it's time to bring Christ into Christianity- let the biblican's worship the book- i'll choose instead to try and live the way Jesus encouraged us to- not as someone 'above, or special' but as a friend to the friendless, and a voice for the suffering.

If you think the bible speaks for Christ- and speaks inerrantly- then your faith is based on mans works and words- not on something that defies 'human nature'- and asks us to live compassionate, unselfish lives.

Christ shouldn't be forced into politics, but neither should anyone feel they can't bring the 'whole' of who they are into any area of life- without shoving it down other peoples throats-

Your beef is with the mis-use of a book called the bible- not with Christ.

The people who maintain that the N.T. is without error have not studied their history well. The NT as we know it was put together and solidified as canon in the 4th century by the Council of Nicaea. Do enough research and one will learn that a lot of the teachings and writings were intentionally left out to fit church politics of the day.

This is why I accept Jesus as a Bodhisattva, but not as the Messiah.
(Oh, and Happy Holidays, since there are a number of them coming up.)

and Seasons Greetings to you as well-

I never 'questioned' the origin of the bible- and when i did, it was a real eye/mind/belief opener-

to the sovereign reality underlying all human affairs, i.e. that we are in the midst of a war of unimaginable dimensions and ferocity.

Peace in society and the world at large can only be obtained through justice; the children of darkness and evil spirits / devils / fallen angels fight very hard to suppress justice in the world - even such imperfect though recognizable justice as we can aspire to with God's grace on this earth.

By God's grace, through faith, prayer, etc., at the macro level, the Christian fights their evil deeds primarily by politics, struggling often to the point of death, to change the viciously unjust structures, which penalise the poor. Many Christians have witnessed to their beliefs before such killers to the point of death, and some probably are at this moment. So this kind of sword refers to "leading with your chin", by witnessing against the militant opposition of Christianity's foes - which alas, include many liberal Christians as well as conservative ones and militant atheists.

On the personal level, again with God's grace, the Christian fights against the temptations the world continually presents, struggling to lead a life of devotion to God, compassion towards his fellows, purity, patience, etc. One of the great ironies concerning the so-called "fundamentalists" in America, is that being "born again", as is clear from Solzhenitsin's life, entails a life of what he calls, "self-limitation". This means not lusting after material possessions, but preferring the life of the spirit. The attachment of the "fundies" to riches is simply anathema to Christianity.

Peace in the human heart, on the other hand, is like joy, a gift of God, and is a function of our loving response to God's love and the love we show to our fellow human beings, whether we are formally religious or not.

One is theological, which I sense you are less interested in, but I will say it anyway: I believe the entirety of the words of Christ in the NT have to be taken into account, and you have to use some to illuminate others. The Mtt.10:34 has to be taken into account with the Mtt. 5:38-42:

"You have heard that it has been said: an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. But I tell you not to resist evil; but if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other to him also."

Taking both into account, I see Christ as presenting a picture of love and forgiveness that is actually revolutionary in nature, and therefore got him in trouble with the authorities at the time.

Regarding your larger point about taking religion out of the world, I would argue further that we should ban unhappiness, anger, fighting, sorrow and loneliness etc. Of course this is absurd, you can't do it, and you couldn't ban religion either. Free people choose to be religious without coercion, and that means a totalitarian state would be required for its removal. You can yell at me all you want about my "fantasy of a sky daddy", but until you recognize that I choose it freely, and respect that about 85% of the world does too, don't expect us to deny our fundamental experiences so easily.

you should read Carter's book. I'm reading it now and it's very well done. He really slams the fundies.

As a Bible believing Christian, I cannot no longer tolerate the religious hypocrisy that spews out of the mouths of the people of this administration. Many in my church agree. A thing that bothered me was Bush's recent comment on his Skull and Bones initiation back in his Yale days. To say he was honored by that just baffles me. I'm working on writing (someday I'll finish) a Christian/Biblical/Book of Revelation perspective of PNAC. I find that to be a very scary document/plan/ideal because of my beliefs.

been a member or something like that. Not exactly sure.

And as a frustrated Christian I agree completely.

read the article on the Gospel of Thomas. Very enlightening

Appearing on MSNBC's Hardball, Inhofe spoke approvingly about "some of the things that the French did" during their brutal and futile 1950s war to suppress Algerian independence. Referring to current interrogation tactics, Inhofe said, "You've just got to be tough, and you've got to try to get the information out. If you don't get the information out, more Americans can be killed. And then you'd really hear squealing about it."

The Christ in Christmas part would cure itself.

"Put Christ back in Christianity" could be a effective retort to many of the fundies' mindless talking points. When they say, "Put Christ back in Christmas," our retort should be, "First put Christ back in Christianity, then Christmas will take care of itself."

"...because otherwise you'd really hear squealing about it."

thanks. i think i will be using it in the future. just perfect. i have siad this many times, but i use full sentences and a bit nuanced like kerry. maybe why i understand him

put the christ back in christianity.

First thing I see here today. Great!

No one said it would be easy. We're talking about ignorance as well as primal instincts.

The old testament is crucial to the new testament. But once Christ arrived, it changed everything.

People who want to advance their agenda, will use anything to do so. Even using religion out of context to justify their evil.

The post up above is a perfect example of how not knowing the context, can also cause misinterpretation of the book. I do not mean to criticize the poster.

Darn it, it's hard to be as succinct as you were. You nailed it.

is incorrect. He arrival was a fulfilling of OT prophesy.

Christianity is being hijacked by fundamentalists (just as Islam has).
And likewise the goals of these self-appointed pharisees have nothing
to do with Christ and everything to do with money, power and dominion.
These are gold-toothed TV preachers who spew vile hate and foment
fear in their flocks as a means of gaining power. These evil people
and their whole "evangelical" approach need to be thoroughly debunked
and disgraced. Make no mistake these fundie fuckers are corrupt to the core...
and what's going on is nothing but unrestrained greed encouraged, refined
and manipulated by the right wing republican party and every one of its leaders.

As a liberal Christian I think it's perfectly legitimate to be informed by one's religious beliefs. One of my beliefs is that Christians should not use the state as a tool to get people to do things (legislate morality, etc.) that is why Protestants in this country used to be in favor of separation of church and state. But it's also important to let the fundies know that "liberal Christianity" does not mean "watered down fundamentalist Christianity, only less so." They are simply screwed up... Their beliefs simply do not jibe with reality or traditional religion or science.

Folks on the evolution vs. intelligent design threads keep bringing up unicorns and dragons as examples of magical thinking among old-time religious nuts, but they forget that they were actually the product of empirical thinking by ancient naturalists. They dug up narwhal horns on the beach and figured, Occam's razor being what it was, that they must have been attached to a land mammal, not having seen a horned whale before, so they posited a unicorn. They dug up dinosaur bones and posited the existence of extinct giant reptiles. It's only when you get large, centralized religious bureaucracies that have a vested interest in the State (or attempt to control the State) that religion becomes disconnected from reality, because religious leaders become more concerned about trying to control people's perceptions so they can maintain their secular influence, and less concerned about providing a good example. That's why the evolution wars are occuring now and not 150 years ago. Just like they only attacked Galileo (and Jesus) when he became a secular threat to the Pharisees' right wing talking points.

hear hear! I'm tired of their hypocriacy and whining and being persecuted when they don't even follow Jesus.

Maybe we should yell and howl about just WHO has taken Christ's teaching out of Christianity:thumbsup:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1877885

Click onto the above and read espcecially the George Monbiot article along with Chris Hedges recent Harpers article Soldiers of Christ II Feeling the Hate

www.harpers.org/FeelingTheHate.html

www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1195568,00.html

Unfortunately, Monbiot leaves the impression the origins of futurism/dispensationalism were mid 19th century, when in fact the Jesuit Francisco Ribera, as mentioned in the top link above's embedded link, The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/antichrist.htm

clearly shows it is around the mid 16th century post Martin Luther and during the counter reformation.

Sadly to say also that most of the CIA's earliest cadre of leadership were SMOM/Knights of Malta, Wm. Donovan, Wm. Casey, Wm. Colby, James Jesus Angleton, Allen Dulles, etc., etc.

http://www.mosquitonet.com/~prewett/caqsmom25.1.html

Need I go on ? The message is clear, a certain viewpoint had overtaken even a supposedly neutral CIA intelligence-gathering-wise. Nowadays it could be related to the PNAC world view, which seems to need a Third Temple and all that goes with it as pretextuals ... for what is a question begged. Indeed, for what ?

the religion forum, since it was meant to be a comment on Fox's "War on Christmas".

I suppose those threads probably belong here too, I guess...
This raises the question: Should Fitzmas and the War on Fitzmas ALSO be moved to the religion forum out of General Discussion? After all, most discussion of Fitzgerald's intentions must necessarily be faith-based in nature. We cannot prove or disprove it, and therefore it is beyond the realm of science.