Dangers of hubris: Insisting God has time or inclination to save one's ass

Did this guy prove:

God doesn't exist?
God doesn't suffer fools kindly?
When it's your time, it's your time?
God may be a fan of slapstick comedy?
You can't pray a carnivore into a vegetarian?
Or sometimes the answer to a prayer is just plain NO?

Lioness eats zoo visitor



While I would best describe myself as a Pan-theist leaning agnostic student of life, I marvel at the gall of people who think God is some unwise parent prone to give in to childish blackmail like 'If you don't, then I'll hold my breath until I DIE!'

What about that gift of free will? Seems sorta rude to not exercise that more judiciously. If God made people mortal, and then expected faith in some sort of soul survival after mortality, why would believers think not dying would prove anything? Isn't the death of our mortal coil part of God's plan for us? And seems likely God probably has more important things to attend to rather than plucking those who want proof out of hot soup.

Don't really know why I posted this. Just interested in other views on the matter of people who borrow trouble just to prove what can only be taken on faith. Are they fools, ungrateful spoiled children, or egotistic blowhards?

And, which one am I? ;)

In the movie Gandhi: "I'm not so egotistical as to believe He plans His day around my needs."

Pity the ones who don't see it that way. They probably have much to learn and many hard lives ahead still.

something that runs along the lines of don't test me.

of course it's also entirely possible that god just did the gene pool a favor.

Perhaps the man should have considered that God planned for him to become a meal instead of a preacher who is sure of God's existence cuz he was spared by a lion. :shrug:

also interesting -- it was a SHE lion.

:hi: you made my morning.

Gender hubris is dangerous too. She who may be She may be nodding. ;)

Matthew 4:5-17 (NRSV)

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and placed him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 saying to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down; for it is written, "He will command his angels concerning you,' and "On their hands they will bear you up, so that you will not dash your foot against a stone.'" 7 Jesus said to him, "Again it is written, "Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

Deuteronomy 6:16 (NRSV)

Do not put the Lord your God to the test, as you tested him at Massah.

answering the lioness's prayer.

"Hey, the big cat was ahead of that idiot. First come, first serve."

Good one.

The god of Christianity would never answer a lioness' prayer. Why? Because men were supposedly created in his image, and animals were not. So, if you're looking at this from a (myopic) Christian mindset, then no, it's not possible.

The Judeo-Christian mindset is incapable of twisting this in that way. Not to mention that it's ridiculous in the first place.

may be blinders to what is actually out there.

Maybe 'God' is not what many people are convinced 'He' is. Maybe an all powerful entity is a bit more broad minded than many religions think. ;)

The point was to expose the stupidity and hubris of the myth that "God created man to conquer and rule the earth."

and God supplied it.

How do we feel when God was pulling for the other team after all? Do we deny God's existence just because we were on the wrong side of some fated equation?

How many unwise wars might have been reconsidered by just entertaining the possibility that GOD doesn't take sides, therefore, your side is not invincible and your side will be held accountable for what happens?

That ol Free Will thing bites a lot of asses.

One of the better The West Wing episode was one about Bartlett struggling with a possible pardon of a condemned man. He's talking with his family priest, "Father, I have prayed for guidance, but God hasn't answered. I'm kinda pissed about that." The priest tells him the story of the man who was danger of being killed by flood waters. He hears the broadcast warnings; a guy in a rowboat comes by and offers to take him to safety; even a chopper tries to take him out. Each time the man says "No, I'm a believer. I love God and I pray to Him. He'll listen and save me." The man is drowned and when he arrives at the Pearly Gates, he demands an audience. Blah, blah, blah in God's face; God says, "Listen, I sent you broadcasts, a rowboat and a chopper to save you; what more did you want?" Then the priest says to Bartlett, "God has sent you a rabbi, a Quaker and a priest to tell you to pardon the man. What more do you want?"

God may answer our prayers, but we may not like the answer or we're too dim to understand.

Before I'm jumped on, I'm an agnostic; I can bat for both teams. :sarcasm:

when it gets sent, and the wisdom of not being rigid about the language or messenger used.

I saw a cool web page with amusing and thought provoking 'quotes' from God. One of my favorites was: Want to understand my ways? Read a science book! - God

Another favorite from that page: The dinosaurs don't believe in you either. -God

And you will seldom find me piling on agnostics who know how to play the Devil's Advocate :evilgrin:

that story is full of holes. If you accept free will, then such a god could not have directly sent them. Therefore, if you insist that divinity played a role, it is clear that god is not of the Christian sort (separate from everything else) at all. Does that make sense?

Just my opinion by the way.

'the Almighty' to one's own limited views and knowledge. That is creating god in one's own image. Who am I to define god and set the parameters?

The man jumping into the lion enclosure may have been a victim of his penchant of defining god. Seems a big risk. We are not that clever a species just yet.

Though I see his prayers no different than most.

who thanks god for his win/skills/opportunity as if it could possibly be on gods to-do list alongside dealing with ethnic cleansing in Ethiopia and mass murder in Iraq.

In the case of athletes - egotistical blowhards

In the case of a man climbing into the lions den - a fool and an ungrateful spoiled child.

imho

The man may have also been that.

If man was created in God's image (or vice-versa) the possibility of multi-facets might also be considered when trying to understand either?

Baseball player: "You have to walk with the Lord."
Manager: "I'd rather walk with the bases loaded."

Hadn't heard that and I love old baseball quotes. So profound and concise.

I want to say that was Earl Weaver, but I can't find corroboration.

Will try and sort that one out sometime soon.

Maybe the guy was hving some sort of psychotic episode.as for you,your posts always seem thoughtful.:hi:

Are such overwhelmingly foolish tests always psychotic episodes? What does that portend for America, considering the man in the Oval Office and the self-proclaimed fervent believers I like to call The Fools On The Hill?

:hi: back at you, and thanks for giving my motives the benefit of your charity. Tis good to be understood. THAT doesn't happen a lot these days ;).

Not crazy enough to get you locked up,you might even get a powerful position in the community.(like,oh, I don't know...president?)

Remember the God-Warrior?A fine example of extreme thinking as mental illness.Yet there she was on teevee.Not under obsevation,which would have been more appropriate.

But then,what of people who don't believe in anything?They appear to me to be saner by far!While I don't agree with them,I prefer them to folks who border on insanity shouting about the wrath of gawd.

When your God hates the same people you do,is where the trouble begins!

Exactly what is "normal, sane" behavior? Brings up my favorite philosophy of 'do unto others whatever they want done to them, consistent with my own enlightened self interest.'
The man demonstrated his power to get what so many self established victims claim to search for, in vain--an answer--clear and unambiguous.

and fairly cheerful, positive ones. Guess which group was found to have a generally better grasp of reality?

starting w/ the Religious Fundies in the White House.

It may be good for the vet industry though.

God is ROTFL .... "Hey Peter, ya' gotta see this!!!!!"

Was just listening to Pan on that subject the other day. ;)

is that it proved there is a god, because at the very same time this fool was invoking God, the lioness was praying to God as well, and was telling him she was hungry. The lioness won. :evilgrin:


/tongue now out of cheek


Personally, the true fools on the RRR will find some way to make significance of this. Truth is, if there is a god, he isn't watching the day to day events of 6+ billion people, and if I recall, he did say people have free will.

I'm an atheist, BTW.

It wasn't a case of the lioness' prayers taking precedence. It might be God's saying, "No, I'm busy creating life on another planet" or "Not today, my navel is need of contemplation" (assuming, of course, that God has a navel).

IMHO, God simply wanted the fool dead. He's better off that way. Quick, relatively painless. Environmentally friendly.

Not sure sure about the mercy thing which would be indicated by quick, relatively painless ends. Just isn't always the case. Maybe not everything is God's doing? That would explain a lot.

The poor guy might have survived the mauling in such a state that he wished that he was dead.

Maybe he wanted to see if God would save him from going to hell because he committed suicide!

:crazy:
rocknation

thus showing, in his mind at least, that God doesn't exist.

He did shout: "God will save me, if he exists" and not 'God, smite the lions and save my stupid ass' Could be he was trying to show a friend the errors of taking too much on faith? Could be he wanted to be tourist tartar and was just using God as a scapegoat?

Hmmm, God as scapegoat... Wonder if that will ever catch on ;)

Not only did God let him die, but God will probably send him to Hell for his overweening pride.

:nuke: :nuke:

Hey, I try to keep an open mind about this stuff.

Ruler of Lions, among her other names. :)

than I thought I ever learned ;)

Too bad he won't be around to enjoy it.

Really, I think of the lioness as the major victim in this incident. Although she is utterly without blame, she will likely be put to death over this.

I think we can all agree on that. I think it is worthwhile to examine WHY the lioness is without blame. It is because lions are incapable of acting immorally or morally. They just do what lions do. This is also the case with all other animals. Only humans are capable of moral or immoral conduct. To me, this is both (1) manifestly true and (2) a confirmation that humans occupy a unique, special relationship with God, by being able to do good or evil. With this ability, we struggle throughout our lives to resist temptation and to do the right thing. But animals don't have any such concerns.

Because that damn man invaded her space, not because its immoral/moral. Most humans, if they could, would kill a lioness if it walked into their homes. Does that make most human immoral?

Lionesses usually don't go around killing their own kind...kind of like humans. But they will kill any other animals that walks into their space....kind of like humans.

and sadly some are lacking in it.

but a larger consideration is that death may not be the end of things, but that's another story.

I'm reminded of the story of the man in the flood:

It rained and rained and it flooded the man's town.

He looked outside and saw the river was rising fast.

He climbed on his roof.

Soon a neighbor in a canoe came by and offered to take the man to high ground.

The man refused, saying "God will provide a miracle to save me"

Soon the water was rising a lot more and he was forced to the apex of the roof.

A motorboat came by and tried to rescue him.

He said "No, God will provide a miracle and save me"

Soon the water was over the apex of the roof, and he was up on top of his chimney hanging on for dear life.

A helicopter came over and dropped a ladder, he waved them away saying "No thanks, God will provide a miracle and save me"

Soon the water overtook the man and he drowned and died.

He went to heaven and when he got there he met God and said "God, I waited in faith and was sure you would save me!"

God looked at him and said, "My son, I'm afraid you are kind of an idiot! I sent a canoe, a motorboat, and a helicopter to save you and you didn't use any of them"

The man just said, "Oh"

God gives us common sense and each other and we aren't supposed to tempt the Lord, but also it's pretty damned stupid to jump in a lions cage and not expect to be dinner.

How many are we up to now?

except in Narnia

no, he wins there too

Deuteronomy 6:16 "Do not test the Lord your God..."