So who/what is a Satanist?

In honor of 6/6/6, what does Satan mean to you, if anything?

Inquiring demons want to know! :evilgrin:

Vulguus Zildrohar! The Traveler has come!

I ain't afraid of him.

Redstone

Some say the two are related... :shrug:

Redstone

Nothing against Old Nick.

Some Christians simply beleive that any deviation from their very particular belief system is "a deception by Satan". So people like me, who practice Wicca, or other religions such as Buddhism, Islam, etc.. are Satanic.

Having read the Bible many times, I would conclude that to the Jews and the early Christians, Satan was basically symbolic of worldly things that distract you from your path to God.

Later, during the dark and middle ages, the church started vilifying otherwise benign and persistantly worshipped pagan gods such as Pan, Cernunnos, Lucifer, etc.. (Yes, Lucifer was the perfectly nice Roman god of the morning star (venus)) The goat hooves of Pan, and the horns of Cernunnos (the Stag god of the forest), were portrayed as the "Devil" image that we are now familiar with.

Me, I don't beleive in the Devil. I take responsibility for my own, very many f**k-ups in life, and on my spiritual path. I don't have a boogeyman to blame them on.

It makes people substitute the word "Wiccan" for the perfectly good word "witch."

Nothing wrong with using any word you want, of course, I just think our culture should stop conditioning people to foam at the mouth when certain words are said. I find that annoying.

That's interesting. Many of the Wiccans I've met refer to themselves as priest(esse)s. Those are the type who sometimes flip out and try to become Boss of All Practitioners, and that never ends well.

Satanism is a form of psychodrama,an atheistic hedonism that uses the psyche the 'bogeyman' and the unknown to bend and manipulate others wills and bend reality in a magical experimental way. It's egotism made metaphysical.
The first line in the Satanic bible is Death to the weakling Wealth to the strong..

And to this day the Church of Satan and satanists cannot define who's strong or weak But they all point fingers at anywhere calling people that they don't like"shit disturbers" pointing fingers but themselves and this makes the group very backstabbing and conflicted,and rather unpleasant to belong to since they admire sociopath traits like playing games internecine competition and backstabbing,and screwing up others lives.

It is interesting system but it's very limited. Ripped off from ragnar Red beard,Nietzsche ,Ayn Rand and Crowley.Politically it has a very RIGHTWARD tilt with a libertarian leftist sorta outer shell.But there are commie satanists too.Tani Jantsang is well known among them and she is nuts and she swears I am crazy,...Big difference here is I don't care if anyone thinks I'm nuts 'cause I am ..Tani isn't so self aware or honest with her insanity yet..And sadly in my experiences satanists when in groups can be quite obedient to their 'leaders' in an idolizing way,that borders on cultie..and quite pathetic in their scrabbling for any sort of power or recognition..Not all satanists are that way,but a significant amount are. and Lavey's satanism is a book club gone stupid.The first church of Satan is pretty pathetic too.
Other than the atheistic forms of satanism,devil worshipers are a whole 'nother ball of wax as in Temple of Set or other sects.

This is the biggest flaw:

When self (or group) survival is made to be the most important thing one has in their life. The first things to go away is the understanding of deeper things than this material world, free thought becomes threatening, exploration looks dangerous, mistakes become emergencies that must never happen ever again, Love is lost in fear of death, competition rules and divides us from the core of our being and our neighbors and the greedy pursuit of and control over the things that make life possible or more comfortable become like gods to be placated as our bodies grow infirm. More important than that life is a bar-less prison when survival is all there is to life and nothing can overshadow it's importance. The law of survival will systematically erode human dignity, joy, wisdom, exploration, understanding, seeking, and freedom in the ruthless pursuit of security and power over what if's.

I feel that as long as survival is the highest law, real freedom will never be trusted. (the idea of survival as the highest law is from Satanism and Nietzsche and other fascist/survivalist writers. ) Survival being the highest law is ultimately a selfish law, a greedy ruler, a self -hating tyrant that oppresses with fear as it destroys spirituality, peace, wisdom, compassion and goodwill in people. People who's quest is to live forever and never be hurt sick or injured become elitists, sociopaths and dictators. Most people aren't even conscious of when survival is speaking louder than dignity. Survival is the pursuit of eternal perfection in an imperfect body that begins to die as soon as it is conceived in an impermanent existence.. it's impossible, but freedom that IS possible.

And Satanism just doesn't GET it!

LeVay style Satanism is right wing to the core...That's why its so hillarious. It becomes a justification for greed, ignoring the social contract, or the broader need to strengthen the collective to strengthen the individual. It is fundamentally anti-social, like all republican beliefs. Take Ann Coulters latest piece of shit, released on 6-6-06 called Godless: The Church of Liberalism

http://godlessanncoulter.blogspot.com/

She dresses on the cover in a black body stocking, wearing a little silver cross, looking like a snake...she releases her book on 6-6-06, condemning those who disrespect chastity. Let me repeat:

Ann Coulter, a 44 year woman who has never been married, with many recorded lovers, advocates chastity.

Why? To increase her wealth. She has no obligation to society, only her own "interest". In the LeVay sense, she is Satanic to the core.

Do you think of yourself as a "recovering Satanist" -- the way friends of mine might refer to themselves as "recovering fundamentalists"? Or is that going too far?

And if you don't mind my asking, how did you get into it and where did you go from there? You don't have to answer any of this if it's too nosy.

I'm on the Goddess path but not Wiccan. Mostly what I've read/heard from others along the way is that Satanism grows out of a culture and religion that believes in Satan, and we don't. Which makes perfect sense to me, which is why I repeat it.

That said, I do believe in evil, in the sense that it grows out of peoples' hearts/minds/actions. I believe humans have free will, and are responsible for their actions. Buddhists see such actions as arising out of profound blindness, ignorance, and error. Jews teach that each of us has the impulse to do good and the impulse to do harm, and we choose. My susband is a JuBu -- we have interesting discussions. When I get incensed I say Bush is evil and my husband counters that Bush is profoundly blind and ignorant. :rofl:

Hekate

Although it describes many "satanist" wannabees who never quite make it through the door.

Remember, the first sin of Satanism is:

1. Stupidity—The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.

and the 8th sin:

8. Counterproductive Pride—That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.

Alot of satanists like many other religions don't live up to their ideals..They cherry pick like fundamentalists do,if it'll get 'em an ego stroke or recognition.

And remember people regardless of religion have issues.
If the satanic community wasn't so full of wannabes lower down and asshole elitists higher up and they all had a saner understanding of power and altruism and the meanings of it,it would be a totally different thing.Problem is satan itself is a limited icon,and for some it functions like an asshole magnet.

There's nothing wrong with cherrypicking as long as you don't lie about it.

But yeah, Satan is limited in the sense of being associated with evil instead of freedom. Perhaps the deeper problem is that freedom is perceived only in terms of "freedom to be evil."

Or maybe there's some reaction formation in my head to this society's slide into Christian fascism, and it happens to look like Satanic leftist libertarianism. I dunno, man.

There's nothing wrong with cherrypicking as long as you don't lie about it.

Yeah I thibnk if people were honest about it they'd be just hypocrites instead of doubly hypocrites.

But yeah, Satan is limited in the sense of being associated with evil instead of freedom. Perhaps the deeper problem is that freedom is perceived only in terms of "freedom to be evil."

I agree with that bigtime I even wrote an article about it

http://www.unknownnews.net/a061312-1.html

Or maybe there's some reaction formation in my head to this society's slide into Christian fascism, and it happens to look like Satanic leftist libertarianism. I dunno, man.

Creepy ain't it,it's like when the nanny state is getting in people's crawls about health issues meets the bully culture,bullying people for having the wrong'lifestyle' either way it stinks like eugenics to me..like fascism by another name,that smells the same.... it's some sick sick shit.

I've been poking around at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciferianism and it's been interesting, in a way that reminds me of your posts. :pals:

However, since I'm an atheist some individuals erroneously assume I worship Satan. I then have to explain that as I don't believe in god I obviously don't believe in his nemesis, and therefore don't worship said nemesis.

You ever get the urge to reply to those accusations with, "Yeah, so what?"

More to the point here, would a Satanic identity be useful sometimes, such as when Bible thumpers start going on about public displays of religion?

Just thinkin here.

when people are going into their diatribes about wanting prayer in schools or monuments of the Ten Commandments in public places and other stuff. I ask them if they also want their cutie pies listening to prayers to Satan, Allah, Buddha, Ra etc. in class, or if they'd want a monument to Satan erected in the park alongside that "10 Commandments" monument. When they get all indignant I remind them that if one religion is represented then in all fairness others have the right to be. That often leads to the "America is a Christian Nation" argument, but of course I'm well armed for that nonsense. :P

Here's a funny little skit on the whole school prayer situation:

Children, Pull Out Your Chickens

In God's angels...At least that's the biblical sense. Or rather what makes Satan so unique: If he's so EVIL, why did God create him?
The impression we get from the Old Testament is that Satan is God's "Devil's Advocate" so to speak, question the worthiness of Man. Job gives a clear picture of this, where Satan and God, walking together almost as friends, decide to test Job's faith by ruining his whole life and seeing if Job loses his faith. Job does not, and the prosecuting attorney loses his case, though no antipathy is expressed between him and God for the matter.
The account of Lucifer is more interesting still; the angel who rebelled from God and was cast down. Through not scriptural in origin, this story has become, thanks to Milton (Paradise Lost, 1667) an almost official part of Christian dogma. From an interesting spiritual perspective, its the idea of Lucifer as man that attracts me most. Each were cast out of paradise for pride, and this is the grand point of Milton's work; that Man's own devil is nothing other than his own self...He is his own worst enemy, his own 'prosecuting attorney'... :)

777

...but I'm Pagan, so I don't worship him. Lots of Christians seem to give him a LOT more attention than we do.

As for Satanists, well...I was in a Tolkien fanfiction mailing list with Michael Aquino (Temple of Set) once. He's a pompous one, even by Tolkien fan standards. But he seemed OK. He wrote a really good story about Morgoth. :)

Actually, come of think of it, I suspect Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett got actual demons' opinions of Satanists exactly right: "You couldn't actually be rude to them, but you couldn't help feeling about them the same way that, say, a Vietnam vet would feel about someone who wears combat gear to Neighborhood Watch meetings."

I'm with Granny Weatherwax on one thing: the proper number of witches in a coven is ONE.

:hi:

http://churchofsatan.com/home.html

The Nine Satanic Statements

from The Satanic Bible, ©1969

by Anton Szandor LaVey


1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!


9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

:loveya:

He ain't the boss of me, though.

Hollywood Satanism rather than the actual Church of Satan adherents. I think it is brilliant(in a funny way)how they used the tax laws and such regarding religious organizations.

The girls are even meaner. :scared:

I was raised Unitarian, and have always personally thought that all gods are real in a Jungian dreamtime kinda way, but I don't follow/worship any at the moment.

To me, Satan/Lucifer/Prometheus/Loki (overlapping names for the same character) symbolizes rebellion against authority and control. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as well as sex, booze, and rock n' roll.

It doesn't seem Satanic to seek out others to define and validate one's Satanism, but if there's one thing I've learned about human nature, it's that we have an endless capacity for absurdity.

And Satan is the object of worship that Satanist place ahead of the Christian God.

Doesn't that make him a Jewish heresy? You know, like Christianity, which places a dead rabbi ahead of the Jewish God?

Satanism, as conceived by the Inquisition and as has entered in to popular imagery, is uniquely Christian. I have never heard of Jews being obsessed with Satanists; I have (unfortunately) met many Christians who are obsessed.

Jewish Satanism has nothing at all to do with Christianity, except for the heresy thing.

To what degree would you say LaVey Satanism is a descendent of the Inquisition?

Satanism, as portrayed in the popular media (think "The Omen", "Rosmary's Baby", "The Sentinel", etc., etc.), is wholely the creation of the Inquisition and is based on the descecration of Christian holy things, blasphemy against Christian doctrine and violation of Christian dogma in order to obtain power and favors from the Christian devil.

I do not disagree that other "left hand paths" exist. I do not disagree that some of those paths call themselves Satanism. But those paths have little to nothing to do with what 90% or more of the people in the western hemisphere and Europe would call "satanism." Given that the OP asked the question in honor of 6/6/06, which is a distinctly and uniquely Christian reference, I figured it accurate to respond as I did. :hi:

that "dead rabbi" was the Jewish God made man

the trinity-3 in 1?

ring a bell?

Or is Manny, Moe & Jack, Inc. a separate thing from Moe?

Feel free to ridicule fanaticism and irrationality, but neither would seem to apply to dwickham or most of the other people of (any) faith on DU.

:rofl:

obviously you have no understanding of the Trinity

You seem to think I should. Why is that?

and usually people know what they're talking about before they comment on it

And Neo and Morpheus makes three. Is that it?

More specifically, the kind that worships a coalition of three entities, one of which is the Jewish god.

This is perceived as heresy by Jews, because according to their beliefs, that's not how their god rolls.

Do you dispute my assertion that it is a coalition?

me, I have no idea what a Satanist is

I've met people who claimed to be one and they worshipped Satan, but I really don't understand the ideas other than the popular culture's fears of Satanic Ritual Abuse (which many claim does indeed exist, however there is little evidence supporting this)

I suspect that it is either rebellious individuals (rebelling against traditional cultural mores) or well, like I said, I don't know.

The CoS is a real church(legally)but does not worship anything or anyone. Others copy hollywood satanism or christianity's version mostly to get attention.

Satanic ritual abuse was/is a farce.

I've known people that believed the ritual abuse was real

but it is something that defies logic. that a conspiracy could be kept under wraps very well.

As for the Church of Satan, I don't think the FBI considered them a threat as they were investigating organized satanists who were supposedly doing ritual abuse.

Now Mulder believed they existed, and Scully, well I don't remember her beliefs, oh wait, that's the X-Files, not real life.

A link would be most helpful, if you can find one.

As for those who are attracted to Satanism, quite a few had parents who were abusive fundamentalist Christians. I suspect one such parent (or more) started the Ritual Abuse panic to cover his crimes, but I don't know.

it was the crackpot therapists who caused the panic to spread.

therapists using hypnosis to treat multiple personality disorder were prevalent during the 1980's and early 90's.

They were convinced that they were finding "evidence" of Satanic ritual abuse among those with multiple personality disorder (now called dissociative identity disorder).

Whether they did or not is strongly tainted by the fact that memory is very pliable, especially under hypnosis.

The fact that some persons may have been led to find what the therapists wanted to find is highly likely. (Patients tend to want to please their therapist)

Now, the problem is that these memories can be found among people who have dissociative identity disorder and retrieved without hypnosis.

So one is still dealing with a problem that there are people who think they were ritually abused, and on another tack, abducted by aliens. At this point we have no other explanation than imagination. That doesn't explain how the details are so strikingly similar between stories (in both abuse and abductions) even without the variable of "implanted memories" coming through such techniques as guided imagery under light hypnosis.

As a therapist who isn't a crackpot I've always been very skeptical of the therapists who were using hypnotic memory retrieval and finding these ritual abuses common (I remember going to a workshop and these folks were very convincing and I'm quite convinced that they believed they were in fact finding "evidence" of ritual abuse.) and I'm left wondering what they really did find?

Just labeling the therapists who did this "crackpots" does not explain what these patients who presented for treatment did in fact experience.

Another factor that lends a problematic issue is that defense lawyers funded studies by experts who came up with the implanted memory, or false memory syndrome that doesn't completely hold water in the minds of a lot of therapists who have looked at those findings.

False memory syndrome gave a defense to some people who may in fact have been perpetrators of abuse, (although probably not satanic ritual abuse) of children.

...they were told that who they were as they were could never ever be good enough no matter what they did: because of what the ancestors of the human race allegedly did thousands of years ago, they were damned to be tortured for eternity--unless they gave in and did whatever the preacher said.

That some very important book said "spare the rod and spoil the child," so their parents beat the shit out of them.

That the same very important book had some rule about "lying with another man as with a woman" (buried in a whole bunch of lists about seafood and fabric) so because their deepest desires were for love with someone of the same gender, they would experience eternal torture.

That if they had questions about any of this, rightful people of the faith ought not to socialize with them, so they were shut out and pushed into school lockers and had their cars set on fire.

That being born female meant your thoughts and convictions would never be "right" on their own, you had to find some male angel's wing to tuck your head under, and then the best you could do and keep your honor is whisper to him and hope he in his "infinite wisdom" decides to support you...

That if a church-going, scripture-quoting older person wants to do whatever to you, it's OK as long as s/he has a Bible verse to quote to prove you're inferior and misguided...


Oh, wait, this was about SATANIST ritual abuse. No, sorry, I've actually never met anyone who's experienced that, specifically.

here's a link
http://www.skeptictank.org/fbi1992.htm

another one

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_rep00.htm

Oddly, I don't have a sense of a universal, omnipotent evil, at all. Some twist in my brain, maybe. I can't (yet) rule out a universal, omnipotent good, or "uninvolved" being, but I don't buy there being the same thing in a "evil" flavor.

Small evils, oh yes. 100% sure of those. Just as sure as small goods. I'm just not so certain when things start scaling up.

Maybe just me.