Gnostic Gospels-What do you think

I'm studying these and am finding some REALLY strange stuff, and some really enlightening stuff. I'm just wondering if anyone else is into them and what you're feelings are about them?

Specially, Gospel Of Thomas.

I was fascinated by the recent NGC's "Gospel of Judas" special.

Is the full text of that Gospel available somewhere?

What made it interesting to me is that I had always heard some of
the assertions made in that Gospel. Years before it had been re-found
and translated. How were they propagated? Oral tradition?

Anyway, I think it would be interesting to know more about them.

was discovered in northern Africa, and it was from this that the Gospel of Thomas et al were discovered.

As far as can be ascertained, it was some fifty years after the death of Jesus that the gospels were written down. They were a part of the long oral tradition in the Middle East.

and ALL the text found there. I look forward to discussing them ALL, especially the Book of Thomas, at length, in the right forum. Did you know the DU Forum on religion existed?

This is in "Religion/thrology" Where else would it go?

ON EDIT: I do see where else it could go, but this would also be the right forum.

is still listed on that page, as "moved," if you care to look.

I have not had a chance to get into it yet, but I am very interested.

especially the Gospel of Thomas. As I recall, they are more mystical in nature than the gospels that are included in the Bible; more about one's personal relationship with God (without intermediaries), and the concept of a personal God.

You may find reading the works of Neil Douglas-Klotz interesting. He has directly translated sacred texts from Aramaic, Hebrew, etc, into English, with many different interpretations of each lines (His first work in the series is "Prayers of the Cosmos" which examines each line of the Lord's Prayer as well as the Beatitudes and other sayings of Jesus). He is a Murshid (senior teacher) in the Sufi Ruhaniat Society, and he provides insights (and practices) from a mystical perspective.

the Gospels of Judas, Thomas, and Mary. It gave me a better insight into early Christianity so I enjoyed it very much.

enlightening all in one...

I am the flower that opens up within you when you are willing to give it water and light., the necessary nutrients and love that sustain life. Your garden is blossoming, and the multi-tiered layers of roses, of which we can ascend through as a spiral staircase, await you. Perhaps you have felt me in those moments when you are with someone else---in the deepest most intimate moments of your life sharing your truest feelings with the deepest love, respect, and admiration for this other person, I might have fooled you at that time because you didn't realize that you were talking to me.

David Wilcock, as the "I AM" presence.

Thomas has become an extremely valuable tool for me in approaching the ethic of christianity. Also the Gospel of Q or Quelle, German for Source.
They dispel the deadness the Church has become and dogma made of a historical rendering of Jesus and instead brought alive a teaching that previously I had only found in the Parables and Beatitudes from the Sermon on the Mount.

not that I have any real problem with them, but scholars are still divided over their authenticity.

We do know that the Infancy Gospel and a few others are mentioned in very early church writings and were in wide use. We also know that everything in the New Testament is derived, but we're not at all sure what was derived from what.

At any rate, religion is about more than documents-- it is about tradition, and there are many Christian traditions. One cannot fully understand these traditions by simply reading a book any more than one can become a Muslim or Jew by reading the Koran or Torah.

There are several hundred "lost" scrolls and documents found so far, and many speak to church traditions that have been lost or forgotten. Or remain in the more mystical Eastern churches that we don't see that much talk of.

This I think is what Jesus taught to his disciples, those closest to him. Gnosticism doesn't change anything; it just makes for a deeper understanding of everything, depending on our own level of understanding. The external truths are still true. As we do to others so it is done to us, and what we sow we reap. But when we are open to the inner resonance of Christ's teachings and ideas, we will be able to read them with understanding and begin to understand what Jesus came for and what it means that he "became the Christ." Until we're ready, they only seem strange or gibberish or nonsensical. But, as Jesus said, He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

Jesus said: "Perhaps men think that I am come to cast peace upon the world; and they do not know that I am come to cast dissensions upon the earth, fire, sword, war".

Because the gnostics were very Jesus and the person, not Jesus and the Church... The gnostics had to go to make the Church stronger

something like mysticism. If a document is difficult, dwells on angelic beings and the architecture of the heavens, and emphasizes knowledge rather than grace or works, it tends to be referred to as Gnostic. But documents like that come from all strains of Judaism, even those bitterly opposed to each other, as well as Christianity and paganism.

Most Gnostic literature does not seem to have much historical basis. Thomas may be an exception. The fascinating thing about Thomas is not the sayings themselves, but the fact that many of them are clearly variations of sayings in the canonical gospels. The question is which came first.

The official position has tended to be that Thomas was written in the 2nd century, and changed the original sayings of Jesus. But one of the principles of hermeneutics is that if there are two versions of a saying, the stranger or more difficult is probably the original one. (The thought being that a difficult saying may be cleaned up or simplified, but no one starts out with a straightforward saying and confuses the issue.)

By this standard, the sayings in Thomas may be are more likely to be the original words of Jesus. Also, anyone hearing these sayings might suspect the speaker of being mad, a reaction Jesus is supposed to have evoked among his listeners. And only in Thomas does Jesus appoint as his successor his brother James, who did in fact take over the early Messianic movement.

Personally, I think Thomas is early and authentic. So does Stevan Davies, who has the best website around on the subject:

http://home.epix.net/~miser17/Thomas.html

I like reading the elaborate creation stories...of gods goddesses transforming the earth and all sorts of imaginative philosophy

It gives an interesting insight on the incredible diversity of religion around early Christian times. Though these texts are not considered Christian by any means it makes facinating reading.

I have a fat book called the Gnostic "Bible" that is a collection of numerous gnostic texts and fragments.

After reading Gnostic texts It makes the movie "Life of Brian" take on a new life.

:)

of the many truths and myths. When one studies what was edited out (and by whom) one may learn much about politics, power, and human nature. One might also be lee inclined to take things literally.

It's a good thing. ;)

Are you Eusebius resurrected?

I want to bake cookies or something. I don't know why.

I'll be over for milk and cookies later

doughnuts. Makes me think of doughnuts.

:bounce:

with chocolate butter cream icing on them. Not too much.

There was a really interesting program on the History Channel on Friday night, possibly a rerun, called "Banned From the Bible," on the Gospel of Thomas, some strange Infancy Gospels of Christ, the Gospel of Mary, the beautiful "Christ in Hell" chapter from Nicodemus, and the Apocryphon of James. The Gospel of Thomas and the Apocryphon of James are as beautiful and profound as the Sermon on the Mount or anything else in the Bible. Some of these texts were found and translated during the 1800s, some during the 1940s and the Dead Sea Scrolls finds, some are very recent excavations or translations. The Gospel of Judas find is a recent, exciting one, and the restoration of Mary Magdalen to her rightful place as first among the disciples helps to remove one of the longest-standing fake impressions of them all, which was that she was a prostitute, when really the Bible quote referred to another person entirely. Like a lot of people, I have been brought back to life as a Christian by these beautiful early Christian manuscripts, which can at last be appreciated as they might have been by the earliest generations.