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t0dd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 08:00 PM
Original message
Obama's team wants LGBTs and our issues to go away
Edited on Thu May-14-09 08:01 PM by t0dd
Andrew Sullivan
The Fierce Urgency Of Whenever

I lived through eight years of the Clintons and then eight years of Bush. Through it all, gay people were treated at the federal level like embarrassments or impediments. With Clinton, we were the means to raise money. With Bush, we were the means to leverage votes by exploiting bigotry. Obama seemed in the campaign to promise something else. I listened to him in the early days and found him sincere about ending discrimination by the government; and I came to respect, while vehemently disagreeing with, his position on federal civil unions. He seemed genuinely distressed that gay servicemembers should be treated with contempt and persecution by their commander-in-chief, that gay couples should have to fight for basic human treatment - like entry to hospital rooms, or being able to stay in the same apartment as their late spouse, or forced into cruel separation by immigration laws that treat gay couples as threats, rather than assets, or if you had the temerity to survive HIV, being treated at the US border the way Jesse Helms always wanted people with HIV to be treated - like perverts and pariahs and threats.

It is quite something to have a government stamp in your passport, as I do, that will tell any immigration or police officer with a connection to a government database that I have HIV, that I am therefore a threat and can be arrested and detained and deported at the border if necessary. I'm a big boy with money and a robust self-esteem as an HIV-positive survivor, but I think of thousands of others far less powerful and wealthy than I am who are afraid to enter or leave the US because their HIV status renders them criminals. I think of how the US is the only developed country - and one of only a handful of undeveloped countries - that still tells the world that people with HIV are dangerous pariahs, who need policing at borders and deporting if discovered. And yet this is the current policy of the Obama administration on global HIV and AIDS.

And it's tedious to whine and jump up and down and complain when a wand isn't waved and everything is made right by the first candidate who really seemed to get it, who was even able to address black church congregations about homophobia. And obviously patience is necessary; and legislative work takes time; and there are real challenges on so many fronts, especially the economy and the legacy of war crimes and the permanently restive Iraqi and Afghan regions we are constantly in the process of liberating from themselves. No one expects a president to be grappling with all this early on, or, God help us, actually leading on civil rights. That's our job, not his.

But I have a sickeningly familiar feeling in my stomach, and the feeling deepens with every interaction with the Obama team on these issues. They want them to go away. They want us to go away.

...

More here: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/05/the-fierce-urgency-of-whenever.html
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. ummm, don't ask don't tell - gays, torture, bushco crimes nt
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Andrew Sullivan is a loathsome neocon.
He does not deserve the honor of having anything he writes posted on DU.



:puke:
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Really sucks when a "loathsome neocon"
is more correct than the "Democratic" President, doesn't it?
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. It does
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. and Bareback Andy is pretty damn loathsome, too. nt
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Rhythm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. No kidding...
Edited on Fri May-15-09 11:37 AM by Rhythm
:banghead:
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Athelwulf Donating Member (342 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. Amen! n/t
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livefreest Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. oh boy for a second i was scared
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. DU'H
Edited on Thu May-14-09 10:13 PM by mitchtv
what have you been reading Andrew, GDP?
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. Does he want their $$$ and votes to go away?
:shrug:
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. don't worry you'll get a shout out
in about 3 years
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. No, not at all....
He wants the money and he wants the votes. Then he wants us to go back to the closet till we're needed again.
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
11. I wish Andrew Sullivan would go away but I do agree with him on this
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. I hate when I agree with Sully
but he is correct on all fronts. I'd also like to give him a nod for mentioning what so many forget, which is that some of us have more ability to fight the injustices than others do. Proves he's thinking outside the Sully box, unlike those who oppose human rights, who are locked tightly into thinking only of themselves.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
13. well, then they should do something to put our issues to bed.
How hard is that?

the ostrich thing - not so effective. We're still heeeeee-ere (sound of foot tapping impatiently).
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
15. I wish people would stop linking to this loathsome reptile...
...his ignorance and blind hatred of all things Clinton disqualify from having anything reasonable to say.
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Even a broken clock is right twice a day n/t
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Yeah, but there are plenty of people out there not so reprehensible who
are right even more frequently.
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. It still does not mean he is incorrect here
Just because someone is wrong sometime or even most of the time does not to mean we should just ignore them - after all what kind of standard are we then setting for ourselves?
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Sorry, but saying Andrew Sullivan may be right and so we should include his voice...
...is the same as saying Rush Limpballs may have a good point at one moment so who are we to exclude him? Sullivan is a first-class asshole, self-promoting POS. On a good day.
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. To each their own I guess - I take truth no matter the source n/t
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Athelwulf Donating Member (342 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. The fact that Sullivan is saying it makes the point MORE credible.
To use an analogy, imagine if Limpballs decided tomorrow that Cheney is just going too far, and his advocacy of torture shouldn't be supported by Republicans anymore. I know, it would never happen, but suppose it did. You know that just about everyone everywhere will start saying, "Cheney is a horrible man; even Rush Limbaugh thinks so!"

No one is saying Andrew Sullivan is right because he's Andrew Sullivan. We're saying Andrew Sullivan is right despite the fact that he's Andrew Sullivan.
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. That's Precisely the Point.
When someone like Sullivan is on the correct side of an issue, it makes more of an impact than if it where someone who's right more "frequently".
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. What do you think the odds of that happening are?
Edited on Fri May-15-09 01:18 PM by Deep13
I mean that LGBT people or their insistence on nondiscrimination will go away. My calculations show it as one chance in crapdillion.

Meanwhile, NY is on track to being added to the short, but growing list of states.


Just as a side note, I hope no one minds me posting in this group. I'm not a GLBT myself, but I am really annoyed by the irrational discrimination LGBT. The whole idea that a person has a right to prevent others from essentially being themselves for no real reason is pretty damn scarey.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. But his dumb neocon ass was just convincing gays that Obama was the best thing since Stonewall...
What? The marriage is over so soon? Obama's distain for the LGBT community was clear as day to many gay folks. I never thought for a second that he was to the left of the Clintons--who are far right in my world. I mean it was a dead giveaway that he was cynically using the gay vote all along.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. you are right as usual
Edited on Fri May-15-09 02:49 PM by mitchtv
A.S.was qualified to post in GDP he was such a bot. Now he wakes up?. Any Gay with half a brain saw this coming a year ago. Time to replay the LOGO debate
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Here are some telling quotes from that debate
Edited on Fri May-15-09 06:18 PM by FreeState
http://www.issues2000.org/2007_HRC_LOGO.htm

Civil Rights
Barack Obama: Has any marriage broken up because two gays hold hands?.
Barack Obama: We need strong civil unions, not just weak civil unions.
Barack Obama: Legal rights for gays are conferred by state, not by church.
Barack Obama: Disentangle gay rights from the word "marriage".
Barack Obama: Gay marriage is less important that equal gay rights.
Barack Obama: Gay rights movement is somewhat like civil rights movement.

and a youtube of some of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gKIGC_NcH0&feature=channel_page
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Athelwulf Donating Member (342 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. K&R
We might again face the wrath of the non-LGBT folks who want to tell us how to feel about this. So be it.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
27. Of course
Look, whatever expectations anyone had of Obama, the guy's a politician. He doesn't want to risk pissing off a huge portion of independents (which movement on gay rights would) for very little benefit (since gay people maning vote Dem anyway). Is that right or moral? HELL NO. But it was inevitible.

Let me make my position clear here: I'm not suggesting for a split-second that Obama should be given a pass on gay rights, far from it but he is going to have to be pushed. I made the decision that, since the guy has a lot on his plate right now, I'll give him until the end of the year to get rid of DADT and I want an attempt at getting civil unions with full legal rights by the end of his first term (yes, I know but given his previously stated position on marriage, I figure civil unions will have to do as a stop-gap).
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. take the civil unions
then begin the next round of lawsuits. I can be an incrementalist too
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Works for me
Babysteps, little by little, we'll win.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-16-09 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
32. Sullivan is all too delighted to attack Democrats when convenient.
Edited on Sat May-16-09 05:23 PM by Unvanguard
What else would one expect from a conservative? Like the Log Cabin Republicans, he'd love a world where there were actually no difference between Democrats and Republicans on this issue.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Yup, and we know that's not true
The Repugs want us dead; the Dems only want us gone
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