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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 08:56 AM
Original message
Economist traces height trends
U.S. heights don't dominate anymore; economist thinks he knows why

When John Komlos wants to take the measure of a nation's economic well-being, he doesn't check its gross domestic product or consumer price index. He ignores its average household income and unemployment figures.

...

"Height is a very good overall indicator of how well the human organism thrives in its socioeconomic environment," he explained.

Komlos, a professor in the economics department at the University of Munich, Germany, has dedicated his professional life to the study of anthropometric history—his own coinage for the academic field that studies the links between a population's height and general well-being.

What Komlos has learned is that Americans, despite their nation's prosperity, abundance of food and cutting-edge medical technology, stopped getting taller in the 1950s and have now been passed by their European cousins.

...

This, according to Komlos, suggests that Europeans eat better, have better access to health care and enjoy a more equitable distribution of national wealth. They will almost certainly live longer than their American counterparts.

Chicago Tribune
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. every reason for denying americans
universal healthcare is fast crumbling away.

sicko part deux?
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. I wonder if immigration could have anything to do with a change of average height in the US.
I think diet has an effect on height - but I think it's effect is somewhat limited. I couldn't tell from the article how Komlos measured average height. Was he looking at people who'd been in the US for a number of generations? Or, was he looking at all residents?
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. It does, very much so. Furthermore, the Dutch (I'm one) are now the
tallest people on the planet, but scientists are not sure why that is so. Better h/care, etc. accounts for much of it, but still...
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I was going to say the same thing.. now, don't get me wrong.. America's
lack of universal healthcare and nutritious food accounts for the type of life Americans will lead.. but I think that immigration does play a part in pulling down the statistical height...
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jeanruss Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. water fluoridation
Water fluoridation is the main difference between us and Europe. They quit the practice when the science showed how harmful it is to human health, especially the thyroid gland. As at least 60% of America's water is fluoridated, people are getting way too much. Fluoride is a toxin that affects the thyroid by taking the place of iodine. When that happens all of our glands don't work properly. This would explain the lack of growth, as well as lowering IQ in the USA. Fluoride affects the hippocampus part of the brain which controls reasoning. It makes a person very passive, which is why it is the main ingredient in Zoloft, Paxil, etc. Any food made with tap water has fluoride.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Every once in a while...
there is a post so silly, so scientifically ignorant, so conspiratorially paranoid, that one must simply step back and marvel at it in breathless silence.

Thank you for that experience.
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jeanruss Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. just as silly
I guess in the not-too-distant past, you would have been part of the group that mocked doctors who wanted to wash their hands before surgery....European scientists and governments are not ignorant of the dangers of fluoride. My study of water fluoridation is the result of having my daughter die of osteosarcoma two years ago. When the latest Harvard research AGAIN showed the correlation of water fluoridation and osteosarcoma incidence, I left paranoia at the door. This particular bone cancer has increased FORTY percent in the last ten years. according to the government SEERS statistics.
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Sorry to hear about your daughter. - n/t
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jeanruss Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. thanks
thanks for the sentiment. I hope expanding my warning online will help prevent others from suffering as our family has.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. In Central Texas, where I live
ALL shallow wells are naturally fluoridated at levels higher than used in tap water.

Now, according to your theory, the rural residents who drink from these wells should be short, slow, passive, and carcinogenic. But we don't have those conditions at any greater rate than normal.

These wells have been in use for over 100 years. So how long do you think it will take for this epidemic to show up?
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jeanruss Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. acid
the natural fluoride in your wells is NOT what the government puts in public water. It is a fluoride acid waste from pesticide production.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Do you understand the chemistry behind all that?
Are you talking about hydrofluoric acid?

Can you explain the mechanism by which this fluoride causes problems?
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jeanruss Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. chemistry
If you want an entire explanation of hydrofluorisilic acid the EPA has that info as well as many groups who work to oppose the practice. As a lay person, simply put, this a toxin that is the residue from the silos of pesticide manufacturing. The EPA warns that greater than 1ppm harms human health. This is the amount added to public water(unless there is an accident, which is much more frequent than it should be). Any product made with tap water has this fluoride in it. It is easy to see that the average American is getting alot of fluoride through their average day in what they eat drink, when they bathe, brush their teeth, use various medications, especially for depression, as well as going to the dentist. Many of the huge increases in certain health conditions in America may be attributed to excess fluoride ingestion. If you read the science, fluoride ia a major endocrine disrupter, which can lead to a myriad of problems. Many communities are deciding to quit the practice as the evidence is becoming overwhelming that this policy is hurting, and sometimes killing us. If the pesticide industry couldn't sell this toxin to water authorities, they would be required to dispose of it in the same manner as NUCLEAR WASTE. That's how dangerous it is. A great book to read is Chris Bryson's "The Fluoride Deception". He tracks the history and motivation behind the practice.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I prefer to believe more credible sources.
According to the CDC

Fluoridation of drinking water began in 1945 and in 1999 reaches an estimated 144 million persons in the United States. Fluoridation safely and inexpensively benefits both children and adults by effectively preventing tooth decay, regardless of socioeconomic status or access to care. Fluoridation has played an important role in the reductions in tooth decay (40%-70% in children) and of tooth loss in adults (40%-60%)


According to the World Health Organization

The importance of effective use of fluoride for the prevention of dental caries has been emphasized in World Health Assembly Resolutions (3-5). A WHO Expert Committee Report on fluorides and oral health published in 1994 (6) detailed the scientific evidence available for use of fluoride and the recommendations for its use in public health programmes. The World Oral Health Report (2003) (2) further underlined the need for integrating oral disease prevention with national and community health programmes based on common risk factor approaches, and incorporating fluoride programmes for the prevention of dental caries.


From Dental and Oral Health Services, Toronto Public Health

The study that gives the greatest indication of what might happen in Toronto if water
fluoridation is discontinued, is a study conducted in British Columbia, Canada. This study
found that removing water fluoridation led to an increase in dental caries compared to the
fluoridated control site. This relationship was determined for both the prevalence and
incidence of caries when other risks were controlled. Over the three years of the study,
14 year olds from the site where fluoride was discontinued, acquired 2.29 cavities
compared to 1.82 in the site that was still fluoridated (7).
If Toronto discontinues water fluoridation, it is incumbent on the Toronto Board of
Health and Toronto City Council to ensure that sufficient funds are allocated to implement
a comprehensive, preventive and treatment dental program for all Toronto children to
reduce the likelihood that the oral health of Toronto’s population will deteriorate.
However, the scientific evidence and Toronto’s experience of fluoridating water for the
last 44 years, show that water fluoridation is a safe, economical and effective oral health
preventive measure that has resulted in improved oral health for Toronto’s population.



And there were many more sources that I know I can trust.

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jeanruss Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. WHO
This is NOT a group that I would ever trust.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Why?
They agree with the CDC, Health Canada, The American Dental Association, and many other reputable sources.

Why do you believe they are wrong when they are not in disagreement with the consensus?
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jeanruss Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-30-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. CDC
From my dealings with government authorities during my daughter's illness I learned firsthand how corrupted many of these agencies really are. I will give some examples from my personal experience. I called the CDC because my daughter's cancer was part of a terrible cluster that happened in the year 2001. Osteosarcoma is a very rare cancer, occuring in only one child per MILLION. In 2001 in only ONE county, Allegheny County, there were SIX cases. Even more stunning is the fact that we personally knew TWO of the other children who were also diagnosed. The CDC refused to look into the matter. I contacted every government agency, local, state and national and received no help. The medical profession refused to even acknowledge the incident and I had extreme difficulty even getting statistical info from the tumor board at UPMC Medical Center. Our local paper also refused to do an article about it. The day of my daughter's death I gave an interview to the Associated Press with pictures. It was set to run the day after and when it didn't I contacted them. The reporter told me that higher-ups had pulled it. Sadly,these government agencies have been co-opted by corporations and their stance on many issues can no longer be considered valid. It is past time to question the validity of their positions on many things, not just fluoridation.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Trotsky, that post should win an award.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. No, the study he cites was of native born population
and demonstrated that we've been getting shorter. Immigrants were eliminated from that study, and results were separated by ethnic heritage. I'm going by memory here, the study came out over 2 years ago.

We were getting taller and stronger all through the 60s. The trend was reversed when liberals went out of power in 1969 and the conservatives in both parties came in. Nixon's failure to deal with OPEC led to the runaway inflation of the 70s and our wages have never caught up in purchasing power to what we'd been paid in 1969.

Along with that have been the successful campaigns to reserve health care to the richest and to convert the worker bees' food supply to fake food, processed stuff that supplies plenty of fat and salt but little real nutrition.

Make no mistake, the conservative movement has been total warfare against all of us and they are winning. Height measurements are just one of the numerical proofs of that.



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