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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 01:37 AM
Original message
Acupuncture's molecular effects pinned down
Scientists have taken another important step toward understanding just how sticking needles into the body can ease pain.

In a paper published online May 30 in Nature Neuroscience, a team at the University of Rochester Medical Center identifies the molecule adenosine as a central player in parlaying some of the effects of acupuncture in the body. Building on that knowledge, scientists were able to triple the beneficial effects of acupuncture in mice by adding a medication approved to treat leukemia in people.

The research focuses on adenosine, a natural compound known for its role in regulating sleep, for its effects on the heart, and for its anti-inflammatory properties. But adenosine also acts as a natural painkiller, becoming active in the skin after an injury to inhibit nerve signals and ease pain in a way similar to lidocaine.

In the current study, scientists found that the chemical is also very active in deeper tissues affected by acupuncture. The Rochester researchers looked at the effects of acupuncture on the peripheral nervous system - the nerves in our body that aren't part of the brain and spinal cord. The research complements a rich, established body of work showing that in the central nervous system, acupuncture creates signals that cause the brain to churn out natural pain-killing endorphins.

http://www.physorg.com/news194418635.html
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. Okay, it's not all in my mind then. Except it REALLY is.
So cool.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. So if acupunture works at all...
it isn't based on the flow of Chi/Qi/whatever, but a physiological response to being stabbed. Nothing terribly special about that.
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 03:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yeah, that kind of went without saying
If my chi won't let me perform the hadoken, then chi isn't real :)
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Q3JR4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. That's okay,
don't want to end up like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64pViKg9Rcg">this guy.

Q3JR4
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. He should have used a higher dilution.
Everybody knows that saltwater doesn't cleanse the space unless it's at least a 15C solution.

Plus, the camera operator was clearly blocking the energy.

:rofl:
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Q3JR4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. So according to this study
I shouldn't pay hundreds of dollars to an acupuncturist when I could just as well sit at home and have a friend stab me in random places with a needle that I've disinfected?

Kinda defeats the purpose of the whole acupuncture thing, doesn't it?

Q3JR4.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Don't think it said that
You could try that of course, but I believe they only tested acupuncture points.
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Q3JR4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Let's go read the actual study shall we?
What http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nn.2562.html">this study seems to be showing is that if you stick a needle in the right general area you get a release of A1 which means that it has nothing to do with qi or meridian lines, and even the lead study writer says that sham needles (needles stuck in the wrong place with tips that retract into the shaft rather than puncturing the skin) can have the SAME effects.

When you look at previous studies that compared real acupuncture (needles stuck into the "correct" position) with sham acupuncture (needles stuck in the wrong position or needles not actually breaking the skin), you see that people feel the SAME EFFECTS.

Thus if you tell someone that you're going to be sticking needles into their skin and you put the sham needle at an incorrect spot and don't break the skin, they get the SAME benefits.

Acupuncture, the idea that needles have to be inserted into specific points on the body, doesn't work. That's the inevitable conclusion we have to draw.

Q3JR4
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-10 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Let's do look at the actual study
"We collected samples of interstitial fluid by a microdialysis probe implanted in the tibialis anterior muscle/subcutis of adult mice at a distance of 0.4–0.6 mm from the 'Zusanli point', which is located 3–4 mm below and 1–2 mm lateral for the midline of the knee."

Good grief, I doubt if they could be more accurate than that. Here is a conversion chart for you

http://mdmetric.com/tech/cvtcht.htm

If sham acupuncture works, though, all the better. I would probably opt for someone experienced in acupuncture, but anyone is free to have a friend stick him with needles anywhere. I would suggest reiki though, for a more relaxing experience, if someone wants a strong placebo effect that works great. It very well may promote some of the same biological effects. I would love to see a study on that.

Acupuncturists readily concede, or rather, even promote acupressure as being valid. So I am not sure why it would surprise anyone that at needle that doesn't puncture the skin works.

In fact, I have a book written by an acupuncturist called "Chopsticks Acupuncture", which is a way to self treat using various points, using chopsticks, which do not pierce the skin. Rather than call it sham acupuncture, acupuncturists know it is a legitimate treatment. If I wanted to self treat, I would prefer Chopsticks Acupuncture to having a friend needle me. But, if I could afford it, I would go to a first rate acupuncturist.

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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yes.
The body releases adenosine as a natural reaction.
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. We knew this 15 years ago...that acupuncture really works. n/t
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-10 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. This study doesn't confirm that acupuncture works.
It explains why acupuncture gets results despite being hokum.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-10 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Right, because of what we suspected.
That there were normal physiological reasons for it - not because of meridians or qi or any of that bunkum made up by charlatans.

Of course, acupuncture doesn't work for everyone, and it seems to do best with pain management rather than the other things attributed to it (smoking cessation, etc.).
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-10 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. Not exactly.
When what an acupuncture study shows is much more interesting than what acupuncture believers think it shows
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/06/when_what_an_acupuncture_study_shows_is.php
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-02-10 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
15. A biological basis for acupuncture, or more evidence for a placebo effect?
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