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Replica clothes pass Everest test (BBC)

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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 03:29 AM
Original message
Replica clothes pass Everest test (BBC)
The results of a unique experiment on Mount Everest confirm that the clothing of the 1924 climbers George Mallory and Sandy Irvine would not have prevented them from reaching the summit, as many had believed.

The findings are a step closer to proving the men could have reached the top, 29 years before Tenzing Norgay and Sir Edmund Hillary.
***
Wearing replica gear made from gabardine, wool, cotton and silk, he wanted to disprove the common myth that the 1920s climbers were ill-equipped to reach the summit.
***
The layered natural materials used to construct the garments were found to be excellent at trapping air next to the skin.

The outer layer of gabardine was hardwearing and water-resistant yet breathable. But the clothing was also lighter than modern gear - the lightest ever to be used on Everest.
***
more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5076634.stm

A very interesting experiment, IMO.

For more on Mallory & Irvine, my favorite is "First on Everest? The Mystery of Mallory and Irvine", which, however, predates the recent expeditions: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1557781052/qid=1150273234/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-0373018-1985550?s=books&v=glance&n=283155 . There have been a couple of documentary films/programs as well. One of these docs filmed the expedition which located Mallory's body on the North slope of Everest, and led to the companion book "Ghosts of Everest: The Search for Mallory and Irvine" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0898868505/qid=1150273423/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-0373018-1985550?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 05:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. lol -- hey they KNEW how
to make clothes then.

while many things were mechanized -- craftsmanship was still the ruling order of the day.
though it's prime was past.

there's a lesson to be learned -- but it ain't gonna happen now.
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. There's also a lesson there for
the natural fibers that organizations like PETA would like to outlaw; wool because sheep get 'embarassed' when they are shorn, silk because the worms that produce it have to be killed in order to get the fiber.

What will they do when the oil becomes reserved for the production of gasoline and other fuels only? And then runs out completely? No more plastics, synthetic fibers that have oil as a base. Natural fibers are, at least, renewable.



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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. ok -- you're peta fuckin phobic to reach that far.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Yes, but the scent of natural wool attracts yeti. nt
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Although I am not surprised by the clothing...
I will say this - If Mallory and Irvine had gotten to the top, I am sure they would have left some sign even if it was a flag or initials scraped into a rock. Hillary is, if anything an honest gentleman, and if there had been any indication that Mallory and Irvine got theer first, I have no doubt he would have said so.

So if they did get up to the top, they left no sign of it, and they didn't make it back down. Not exactly a successful climb if you ask me.
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YankeyMCC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Agreed n/t
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LastDemocratInSC Donating Member (580 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. The environment at the summit is way too harsh for what you suggest
Edited on Sun Jun-18-06 08:20 PM by LastDemocratInSC
The climbing season on Everest is just a few weeks in length - this is the "good weather" season and even then the conditions are extremely harsh on the mountain. So far during this year's "good weather" season 10 climbers have died on the mountain, some as a direct result of exposure to the elements. During the rest of the year being on the mountain is the equivalent of trying to walk on the wing of an airliner at 200 knots at 29,000 feet. Survival under those conditions is impossible.

Few climbers have the energy to do anything other than sit at the summit for a few minutes before descending. It would be difficult to summon the energy to carve something on a rock, even if a rock could be found beneath the mantle of ice.

The summit, at 20,000 feet, is many miles above where the "death zone" begins. Above 15,000 feet the body is constantly dying. Oxygen bottles can prevent hypoxia but Mallory and Irvine had none of these. Cerebral edema, dehydration and low blood sugar levels can combine to bring the strongest man to a stop.

Any artifact left at the summit is removed by the "bad weather" season winds that rage at extreme speeds for days on end. The time between Mallory and Hillary was on the order of decades. Anything left in one season rarely survives intact to the next.

It's not likely that Mallory and Irvine could have left any evidence of their ascent, and it's not a surprise that they were overcome on the mountain.

This isn't to say that they couldn't have made the summit - they very well may have. Most climbers get into trouble on the descent when their bodies are running on empty. The descent can take longer than the ascent, by the way.

The only way to determine if these two brave men made the summit is to recover their camera. They had at least one and if they made the summit the camera would have the proof. Those who found Mallory searched for the camera but didn't find one. It is believed that Irvine had it and he has never been found.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Mallory & Irvine did have oxygen -- among the first to use it.
In fact, two other climbers (one was Teddy Norton, can't remember the other) went for the peak without oxygen, but were forced back by sheer fatigue & extreme dizziness. Realizing that they did not have enough time for another unsuccessful attempt, Mallory & Irvine strapped on their oxygen gear and made their try, but were swallowed up by cloud and the peak could not be observed for a couple of days, IIRC.

This was not Mallory's first expedition to Everest. He had tried twice before (IIRC, and I'm fairly confident) and had more or less decided that the newly-invented breathing apparatus was the key to success. They had already tried out the breathing gear lower on the mountain, and felt it had made a big difference. They gave the other climbers a chance first, more or less to test whether the summit really could be reached without breathing gear, and to give it a fair go for the sake of the sport.

The idea of using 'bottled' oxygen was very controversial at the time -- it wasn't "sporting" in the view of the old-school Alpine climbers, and was regarded as the next thing to cheating. One of the old guard even hypothesized that M&I had tobogganed to their deaths by falling over backwards and sliding downhill, with the slender O2 tanks acting as runners! That pretty much sets the standard for 'reactionary'.

Agree with you completely on the camera. Since it would have been kept below freezing much of the time, it is not inconceivable (albeit rather unlikely) that any images, if they ever existed, might survive in a recoverable form in the surviving film, if someone finds it and does not screw it up by exposing it or letting it thaw before it can be analyzed very carefully.
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YankeyMCC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
6. A couple of things struck me
I wonder what portions of their attire was cotton, that's usually one natural fabric that isn't encouraged for climbing.

I'm not really very surprised in all the outdoors publications and people I talk to natural fabrics are generally widely acknowledged as being as good as or superior to the synthetics. I try to use as much as I can, although I admit to gottex outlayers and a couple of synthetic undershirts (socks always wool though :) )

I am surprised that they managed to put outfits together that were so much lighter though.

Man what a fantastic father's day gift that would be to get outfitted like this! :)

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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Neoprene replaced silk
Thin as it is, though, silk is still lighter weight than neoprene. Wool comes in several weights. Right now I'm working on a shawl in alpaca that will be 93" x 26" and weigh only 150 grams...6 oz. It will not only be warm, but being wool will still retain warmth even when wet.

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