Anyone w/experience w/the study of Kabballah...?

I hope I spelled this right, please excuse me if I did not.

I'm usually not remotely interested in religious fads or studies, particularly those made popular by celebrities. I'm still not.

But I am intrigued by aspects of the study of Kabballah or Jewish mysticism (whichever the prefered term is) and was curious if anyone here has any knowledge of this, studies it or has studied it, etc.? Maybe (if you are comfortable) you could share what your experience here?

:hi:

the 'popular form' that many celebs are participating in, seems to be a cult or cult like for those that aren't celebrities. Kind of like Scientology in that respect it would seem. Sad...

Anyway, still interested in anyone's experience with it (in other forms--not the popular contemporary movement)...so feel free to share.

It's such a shame to me that man has to come along and mess up spirituality with their own greed...

ask me anything ;-)

ps. there are many spellings, Kabballah is one of them.

First of all, what is it? Should one be Jewish to study it? Do you study the same thing that has recently become so popular with the celebrity crowd?

Thanks so much for responding! :hi:Talk to you soon!

i guess the best way to describe it is the study of creation - how The Divine manifests the physical.

In the 1200's in Spain (and some other parts of Europe) there was a gathering of intellectuals and scholars of different faiths - Jews, Muslims, Christians, Pagans - and it was here that the Qabala as it is known today had it's origins. The two major qabalistic works were published at this time - The Zohar and The Sepher Yetzirah.

In a sense, there are two qabalas - Jewish qabala and hermetic qabala. There are similarities between the two, and differences.

Traditionally, to study Jewish Qabala, one has to be a married male over 40 who is well versed in the study of the torah. The hermetic qabala was elaborated on by the Golden Dawn in the late 1800's - based mostly on the Sepher Yetzirah, but they changed the arrangement of the paths on the Tree of Life for some reason. It's this version that forms the core study and structure of most western 'mystery schools' and magical systems.

I have no idea what version of the qabala 'the celebrity crowd' is studying. I don't want to automatically dismiss someone's sincerity or intellect just because they're a pop singer but I am a bit suspicious of folks who need to mark themselves out as 'special' by wearing little red strings around their wrists. Makes it seem more like a fashion than a spiritual quest.

So much for a very brief history of the Cabala. If i can answer any other questions for you, i'll certainly try ;-)

...oh and I agree about the read strings--that bugs me for some reason. I think you put in to words what I couldn't about why it bugs me.

Anyway, if I may ask, what prompted you to study kaballah? How does one take up the study--do you need a teacher, or can it be on a personal self study basis with books, etc.?

Thank you kineta for sharing with me--I really appreciate it! :hi:

Happy New Year to you!

I study hermetic and ceremonial magick and Qabala provides very useful tools to these studies. However what prompted me to study qabala in the first place was sort of a fortuitous 'accident' when I was about 13 (I was naming my cat by randomly opening a book and pointing - I named her Yesod). I started reading and I got hooked. It tied into so many other things I was studying, tarot, magick, philosophy.

You don't need a teacher to study Qabala. I would say, as a spiritual path it's very intellectual, one arrives at 'enlightenment' through contemplation. You read and study and contemplate the nature of the divine by leading your mind down specific paths. It's almost the polar opposite of the type of meditation where you empty your mind of all thoughts.

If you want to study the Qabala I'd suggest reading the Zohar and Sepher Yetzirah. These aren't necessarily easy books to read, so you might want to start out with some introductions - although I recommend eventually reading these two books since they're source works. If you want good, comprehensive introductions to hermetic qabala I'd suggest Mystical Qabala by Dion Fortune, The Chicken Qabalah by Lon Milo Duquette (a very entertaining read), or Garden Of Pomegranates by Isreal Regardie. A nice, easy book on Jewish Qababa is Simple Kabbalah by Kim Zetter.

I was poking around on amazon.com, through a search of kaballah the Berman books came up. When I read reviews of one of those, someone said a MUCH better book and intro to the kaballah was The Chicken Qabalah by Lon Milo Duquette!!

Oh and Berman, btw is the guy that (I think) has brought kaballah to the mainstream--the kaballah we spoke of briefly studied by the pop star, actors, actresses, and other red string wearers. While some gave enthusiastic reviews, others seemed to feel he wasn't offering authentic kaballah...

Thank you for your sharing your experiences and insight on this. I'm going to see if I can find any of these books and check them out.

Oh, one other question--do you feel there personal kaballah studies can be beneficial?

you asked: do you feel that personal kaballah studies can be beneficial?

what do you hope to get out of it? what are your other areas of interest?

i find it beneficial for many reasons, but it depends what you are looking for and what your temperament is. for someone interested in any form of western mystery or magical traditions, including wicca, i'd say it's invaluable. for someone interested in middle eastern mysticism, whether jewish or sufism, also valuable. i even found studying the qabala useful in art history studies and understanding a lot of classic literature. Ulysses by Joyce (my favorite book) is loaded with qabalistic references. Marcel Duchamp's work is loaded with qabalistic references. the list goes on.


ps. Lon Milo Duquette is fun to read ;-)

(sorry for the late reply--I've been in a bit of a funk of late.)

I'm not sure of what I'm hoping to get out of studying the kaballah--so maybe I should consider that in more depth prior to reading about it. My other areas of (spiritual) interest include wicca, metaphysics, yoga, buddhism, and some other areas that my overworked brain isn't processing at the moment...lol.

Thank you again, for being so generous with sharing information about your experience. :hi:

hope you feel better. i read your other post. i try to stay away from folks that drain my energy, but that's not always possible. *sigh*. good luck to you.

i wasn't trying to challenge your interest in qabala or anything, just trying to figure out which aspect of it would interest you most, and consequently which books you might like better.

I am not a student of Cabala, per se. However, I have read and studied some. The current incarnation, in celebrity life, is a fad...it will soon pass. However, if interested, there are some great books out there and a few good websites. While not required, a passing knowledge of Hebrew is helpful (especially the alphabet). Many of the 'ancient' texts have been translated, but things are sometimes lost in translations.

Although I can offer no proof, I feel that Gnosticism is very closely tied to it. Unlike Christianity (at least the vast majority), Jews are not as adverse to mysticism. Kaballah (as another, more knowing than I, has pointed out, there are many spellings) is very 'earth' reliant. Air is usually the element of knowledge, but, in this case, 'earth' is based in "hidden knowledge." And, to my understanding, it is not "purist." I mean that it changes as the earth (knowledge) changes.

The other poster, with more knowledge, can correct any of my wrong assertions. :)

Much of the study of the Qabala focuses on the the mystical interpretation of Genesis and also Ezekiel. Gnosticism has the same roots. Christian mysticism and Jewish mysticism - largely coming out of the same place.

You know, there's also a system of Greek Qabala. Actually, Greek thought had a good deal of influence on the Sepher Yetzirah.

ps. :hi: to you Behind the Aegis. I miss your dream interpretation threads.

You'd think with my 'name,' I would have remembered that aspect! LOL!

And, a hearty :hi: to you and Happy New Year! :party:

Perhaps, just maybe, I will do another dream thread. ;) I have been blessed with some new insights (the gods have been kind the past few weeks)!

I studied Kabbalah a little bit during my consciousness studies masters degree program, but that was more than ten years ago and my memory is hazy.

Multiple spellings:
There is some correlation between people's orientations and the way they spell it, but these are not hard-and-fast rules or identifiers. Christian Cabalists tend to spell it with a C. Jewish Kabbalists tend to spell it with a K. And others (Hermetic, Gnostic, generic mystics, etc.) tend to use the Q: Qabala. (Unless I've mixed up the K and Q groups.) Some put an 'h' at the end and some don't, some use double-b, some use double-l; I don't think I ever saw both double-b and double-l together before this thread. Based on what I've seen, the Q and C folks tend to use single b, single l, and no h at the end, but probably every possible combination has appeared somewhere.


The Zohar and Sepher Yetzirah:
I found them very interesting reading back then, but now I don't remember which is which. One has a bunch of discussions (i.e., arguments) among rabbis about various religious and theological issues. These are not catechism-like things with doctrinaire positions; they are serious intellectual efforts at dealing with real and troubling questions, the kind of things fundamentalists of all stripes hate. Questioning, even sometimes challenging God, seems to be much more prevalent in Judaism than in most of Christianity. But this is not sterile intellectualism or mental masturbation; it's using the mind and reason to approach closer to knowing God, somewhat analogous to Jnana yoga, I think.


On mysticism:
(Warning: This is a bit of a rant about a personal bugaboo.) There seem to be two common uses of the terms mysticism and mystic.

One usage is the more classical (for failure to find a better word) such as serious yogis, the medieval Christian mystics, shamans, and the Kabbalists from whom came such works as the Zohar and S.Y. This type of mysticism involves personal experience of the divine (and the search for that), direct knowledge of God and contact with God (as opposed to reading it in a book, being told by someone, or learning it by rote in a catechism class), typically leading to recognition of oneness with God. (For example, "yoga" means "union," and refers to union with God.) It is a life-changing experience and usually can't be expressed very coherently in words.

The other usage is the pop culture usage in which mysticism means weird, offbeat, non-mainstream knowledge of "mysterious" and sometimes secret doctrines or techniques that you can get from a book or being told by someone, i.e., not from direct personal experience. It often involves superficial use and understanding of arcane symbols, tools, and techniques. It's the trendy, apparent superificiality of some celebrity mysticism that bothers me; and yet I say "apparent" because I don't really know if it's so and I'm certain that most of the reporters who write stories about the celebs' mysticism don't know anything about mysticism except the pop culture superificial version so they couldn't say which kind any celeb is really practicing.

wish i could write as eloquently as you.

The actual spelling in hebrew is Qoph-Beth-Lamed or QBL. The letter Qoph (sometimes spelled Koph) is a 'K' sound, as is the letter Kaph. People often write Qoph as a 'Q' to differentiate it from Koph, which is usually written as a 'K' (when translated into Roman letters). Since the translation is based on phonetics, folks will spell it differently. Very interesting take on who spells it which way. seems spot on.

I love what you wrote in the Zohar and Sepher Yetziah paragraph. That very nicely sums up the sort of spiritual discipline that Qabala is. I've heard that there are types of Buddhism that take this sort of reasoning approach as well and require *a lot* of reading. I'm not sure which school(s) of Buddhism though. Do you know anything about that?

I don't know much about Buddhism (Once upon a time, I knew more) but it wouldn't surprise me if there is such a branch. If there's a lot of reading involved, it would be somewhat different because you could read one 3- or 4-page story from Zohar or SY and then think, ponder, discuss, and chew on it for days or even years. In fact, I would guess that the original author(s) did just that with the issues before they could write the stories.

Hmmm, I think I can see a pop spirituality book coming. "ZenRunes: The Ancient Sacred Science of Buddhist Kaballah" :eyes:

Interesting info you gave about the name origin QBL. I'm sure you know this but some others may not: The English word "cabal" derives from Kaballah, meaning a secretive conspiratorial group.

ZenRunes! gonna steal that and get me a cult following :evilgrin:

and here i thought cabal stood for Clifford, Arlington, Buckingham, Ashley, and Lauderdale </nerdy joke>

"Clifford, Arlington, Buckingham, Ashley, and Lauderdale, five ministers of Charles II who made an alliance with France in 1672." Because of the combination of their initials (and their plotting behavior) they were called 'the cabal' - it's where the word became popular in it's common usage. It's a "common" misconception that it's the origin of the word. The english probably got it from the french word cabale - "intriguing faction" who derived it from the hewbrew word qabala - "to receive" (presumably secret knowledge).

(I've JUST been reading Neal Stephenson's historical fiction The Baroque Cycle, where these fellows appear as characters, or I wouldn't know this)



edited for stoopid spelling.