I'm not normally one for coarse language...

but FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK!!!

I swear, when someone who is not a doc starts recommending potentially fatal treatments it really gets my blood boiling.

:argh:

Okay, I'm better now. I promise.

They even asked the mothers. How can that not be as good as the consensus of the medical profession?

Who do you trust, ten thousand doctors or a quack selling DMSO and ETA?

Obviously the doctors are united in a conspiracy to keep the kids sick so that they can make more money off of them.

You just don't get it.


and for safety sake :sarcasm:

Ethylene triamine?

Fricken DMSO, I spilled some down my gloves once and didn't notice for a couple of minutes. Then they started tingling/going to sleep and I kinda noticed.

Good old DMSO, we were using it with, uh, dichloromethane, I think, in a 20%/80% ratio to make some bitching solvent for a TLC on silica.

That is used in cell culture growth. But hmm. Lots of notes on the dangers of ingestion though if I recall right. Not something appropriate for in vivo.

If your DMSO's pink, it'd be a solution of something.

I'm mentioning this because if you're using DMSO solutions, it's best from a safety standpoint to know what is in the solution. On account of how well DMSO penetrates through skin.

Way back in the good old bad days, athletes used to use DMSO topically as a muscle relaxant. The only obvious side effect was horrible, horrible breath. I think they still use it for race horses.

I worked for a time at an equine hospital, that's where I was most exposed to it. The volumes you use when dealing with horses is staggering (1 gallon jugs). Ewwwww!

Culture media with phenol red and DMSO added for freezing. We use it in fairly small amounts that way and it's in a hood so we don't smell it.

I believe those are the chemicals touted as sure fire cures for autism. If I am wrong, I'm sorry. I'm just glad no one takes medical advice from ME!

You may be right. I think I have heard this before. From the woos. In health. As I recall it had something to do with adjusting the pH of the blood I think. Because you know, thats the cause of all disease!

Not only do woos believe that it cures whatever, but they've killed people with it so it is pretty sure they use it.

Reasoning behind its use: "Who needs metals? They're evil! Get that nasty calcuim out of my blood and brain!"

It's a preservative in a lot of convenience foods--it's what's for dinner!--plus what they give you IV in chelation treatments.

it stands for ethylenediamine teracetic acid. My knowledge of chemistry is very limited; but I know that apart from being used legitimately in acute poisoning cases, its uses include industrial cleaning(!) Doesn't sound all that soft and mild.

And what is more, you mispelled it - its ethylenediamine tetraacetic acid.

Well, something more similar to that. I can't remeber if there is a hyphen between the a's in tetra acetic.

It's a great chelating agent, hexadentate too.

And yes it is indeed used in acute (metal) poisoning cases - it binds to (most) metals like pretty much nothing else in the body. (That is what is meant by "great chelating agent", in case you were wondering. )

(Also, hexadentate means that it will bind to six sites on a metal)

But all in all, it is still EDTA not ETA.

There is a certain woo who believes that chelation cures autism, MS, Lupus etc..because of course autoimmune disorders are all caused by dental amalgams. And vaccines.....heavy metal poisoning....:banghead:

Well.... except mercury that has been in the body for a while because once it forms dimethyl mercury it can cross the BBB, and though I am unsure, I doubt EDTA could follow it there.

If you stick your finger in a beaker of DMSO, in a few seconds it will penetrate your skin, get into your blood stream, distribute throughout your body, and when it gets to your tongue you can taste it.

Sort of has a garlicky flavor.

for the back pain an internist wasn't interested in treating. I had garlic breath for weeks and the improvement was minimal. I think if I could have mixed it with some tincture of opium it might have worked better, but drug laws being what they are, that was out of the question.

Pharma "chemicals" that undergo strict toxicology testing is evul, but untested unsafe, in vitro LAB chemicals are considered cures? WTF idiocy is this?

sigh!

And especially in cases where someone is arguing that their treatment is better and safer than the 'Pharma' treatments for a condition for which, guess what, there ARE NO PHARMA TREATMENTS!

:puke: :puke::puke::puke::puke:

Ugh, I've gotten that stuff on my skin several times, the nastiest, foulest, grossest tasting stuff I've ever run across. I can tell if it's been used from miles away, that very distinctive odor is unmistakable.

Arguing with it/them is like trying to convert someone to a different religion. They believe what they believe because they want to. It's faith.

continues to disappoint me.

But then again it is a discussion board. It is just to bad he is not interested in discussing anything.

Maybe he just hasn't voted wrong on a poll yet...

But he's posted explicit medical advice for years with few apparent repercussions. I've alerted on more than a few of his posts/threads, but none of those has ever been deleted/locked.


I'm not calling anyone out, mod or otherwise, but I would be curious to see the standards by which DU judges a post to qualify as medical advice and be subject to locking.

that it is hypocritical of us to lock threads that solicit medical advice while letting threads that offer medical advice sans solicitation stand. Suffice it to say, others do not agree with me. :shrug:

I definitely wasn't calling out the mods, and I'm happy to assert that your view on this subject is pretty well established (at least to those who frequent this particular Group).

But you raise an excellent and compelling concern IMO.

I didn't mean to imply that you were. I suppose I am just frustrated myself, given that there is little that I can do to change the situation.

So it goes.

Varkam! Hey Varkam! You call that a sig-line? Pfft!

:evilgrin:

:rofl:

Most of the mods (with the notable exception of Varkam and Muriel Volestrangler) have little knowledge of biology/medicine. Far less than most people in this group. So it comes down to a freedom of expression kind of deal. They feel that the homeopaths have every right to promote their views...I believe though when they actively cross the line of telling people not to take their meds or explicitly go agaisnt doctors advice..then they will lock the thread. But when they put it in generic terms as "alternatives" to western meds, then they won't do anything, no matter how dangerous we, whom are better informed then most, consider it.
I am also sure that I have had complaints lodged about me, from the woo end, that I am unfairly bashing them. I have never had a mod warning but I suspect it to be so, from the way they often respond to me.
Oddly enough, I don't think any of the health woos have me on ignore....:)

Incidentally, Muriel locked a poll-thread of mine yesterday, for reasons which I will describe as 100% justified. I wasn't dispensing any medical advice, except perhaps as an exhortation to take matters into one's own hands, as it were.

But if your assessment is correct, then there's an unintended but unfair bias against actual medicine, because actual medical advice seems IMO more easily recognizable (and therefore is quicker to be locked) while bogus "alternative" medical advice is a will-o-wisp even among its devotees, so it may be hard to pin down. I would think that they'd want to err on the side of caution, but...

Another note: NBC's Today show ran a lengthy segment on "holistic" medicine, focusing particularly on acupuncture but also discussing general "non-western" remedies. They featured two commentators--both pro-woo--as their information sources. One of them specifically declared that "western" medicine is excellent for surgical interventions and treatment of disease, but holistic medicine is (somehow) more interested in prevention. That's 100% bullshit, but it's nice to see NBC giving sweet airtime to woos and cranks. The word "allopathic" was used at least twice, I hasten to add.

I want to be paid five dollars every time a woo uses that word to sow a sense of distrust in actual medicine. I'll be a brazillionaire by dawn tomorrow.

Remember the foot thingies? Something I really NEVER expected to see on TV.
And I really REALLY get tired of the western medicine doesn't focus on prevention crap. Has any one met a doctor that doesn't say "Diet and Exercise"? No. AND here's the ones woos REALLY miss...Doctors will tell you its much better to get your vitamins and essential minerals from diet...not supplements like the woos ALWAYS push. Talk about money making schemes..since the stuff you get from GNC and the like aren't as likely to survive the digestive process.....


And one final comment...about your poll..I believe I called it..a surer lock there never was..As Muriel said...that was NOT PG-13 material...but it was about the funniest poll I've seen in a good long time.

...though no disrespect to my peers is meant. We all have our favorite areas of interest, in the intellectual arena, and one of mine just happens to be medicine and science. However, I do not think that is the primary motivation for allowing these threads to stand. I think it is that we don't want to become the "DU Truth Police". It is not up to us to weigh claims of truth or falsity, nor should we start doing so.

However, I think that is a non-sequitur when it comes to things like this, because true or not no DUer is qualified to offer medical advice over the internet - true or not. Sigh.

I do think you mods do the best you can...Particularly those poor souls that are mods for GD- Primaries...Aye Carumba!!:o

I noticed that one of the articles referenced in support of the vaccines-cause-autism theory was by G. Schmuck et al (2000)! Somehow it seems exquistely appropriate!